View Full Version : Putting the book down
SpiritOfTheDogz
23-06-2008, 10:44
Just wondering how many of you have been brave enough to put the book away and use your decks intuitively?
I've tried it but some decks give nothing away at all and the books are a must but recently I have found I am able to read with three decks fairly well intuitely: Gypsy Oracle Card; Pyscards; and Oracle Of The Radiant Sun.
In all honesty I have struggled a lot with the Gypsy cards on larger spreads (six cards or more) and they don't seem to go together well at all so really have to just use these for small readings.
With the Psycards I found when I did three practice readings intuitively the other night that a lot of the same cards came up all three times which made the readings very similar.
I've only read one full spread with the Radiant Sun cards so far and that went well, I ended up with 16 cards out in the end which really pinpoints the problem with these, the cards don't give too much away and often one cards isn't enough and a clarifier is needed, however I don't mind this so I have to say these are the best I've read intuitively with so far...
...or is it just that I'm getting more practice in?
What's your views on reading without the book?
Gavriela
23-06-2008, 11:20
If you mean the Ziiguener Gipsy Cards (36 cards, six languages) then you may need to spend some time with them. I like Leigingkarten better, but the idea is similar.
And Lenormand is similar, too. It's impossible to memorize every card combo - there'd be hundreds of thousands of them.
I think the trick is to figure out what the reading is talking about and take it from there - the cards are sometimes really literal, but sometimes they're symbolic.
It can take a while to figure out.
GryffinSong
23-06-2008, 14:49
I prefer to read intuitively, and only look at the book after I've written down whatever comes to mind, or if I get stuck. :D But then I mostly read for my own, personal growth. Getting in touch with my intuitive voice is more important to me than any so-called "correct" meaning. Your mileage may differ. ;)
SpiritOfTheDogz
23-06-2008, 19:16
If you mean the Ziiguener Gipsy Cards (36 cards, six languages) then you may need to spend some time with them. I like Leigingkarten better, but the idea is similar.
And Lenormand is similar, too. It's impossible to memorize every card combo - there'd be hundreds of thousands of them.
I think the trick is to figure out what the reading is talking about and take it from there - the cards are sometimes really literal, but sometimes they're symbolic.
It can take a while to figure out.
No I mean the Gypsy Oracle Cards
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gypsy-Oracle-Cards-Oraculo-Gitana/dp/0738713066/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214212489&sr=8-1
I know what you mean though as long as you have a rough idea where the reading is going then sometimes it is easier to read even if at first glance the cards don't make sense
Paul
There are so many tempting Oracle sets around and (IMO) if you´re not careful, you end up being seduced by them and then having to try and learn whole new systems and - surely - this just isn´t possible in one lifetime? I mean, there´s tarot (if you´re into tarot, and most of us are), then Lenormand, and Celtic Stuff and Pagan stuff and Fairy stuff. The list just goes on and on....
What I mean by this, is that if you´re not careful, surely it isn´t so easy to read well "intuitively" or without referring to LWBs etc if you have a considerable oracle and tarot collection. Not in one lifetime anyway. I mean, how many systems can one really internalise?
I like Oracles, but Im very selective about the ones I get. Im realistic about my own capacity to internalise new systems. I actually use very, very few.
I love the Ana Cortez Playing Card Oracles, to which I return repeatedly, and get deeper and deeper into and find that it has enough stimulus to build meanings onto and have intuitive responses to. It´s a system which holds together wonderfully and there is nothing gimmicky about it. It really makes sense and ties up with numerology and geomancy. I use this deck a lot.
I also have the Nostradamus and Paracelsus Oracles, both of which I love, but to be honest, I tend to pluck a single card from one or the other to set "tones" for tarot readings. And then shamelessly consult the book, as a kind of anchor for the reading before I concentrate on the tarot cards. Im not a professional reader so it doesnt bother me too much and I know Im not going to be able to learn all meanings of all systems.
Then I ordered the Eros Oracle. A lovely deck, cheeky and saucy, but I havent even tried dipping my toe into that one yet...
Gavriela
24-06-2008, 09:01
The Gypsy Oracle Cards are a sibilla deck, so they are very much like Lenormand, Kipperkarten, and the 36-card versions - or the 32-card versions.
And like many tarots of the Italian variety, they take a page or eight from Cesare Ripa's Iconologia. Which didn't so much define the styles, as catalogue them. You can find it online at:
http://emblem.libraries.psu.edu/Ripa/Images/ripatoc.htm
Complete with text and pictures. All of these came out of the era when art was used to convey a specific message - so you used the particular symbols that were understood to be 'universal' to the idea you wanted to get across.
I'm not sure if that'll help you any if you want to read a sibilla (it does me, but I'm a language freak, and I see all of this category of European oracles as a language), but it's a useful reference.
Some you'll just pick up along the way. Dogs are almost always about loyalty, protection, and fidelity, cats and foxes about falsity, snakes about enemies (think Christian interpretation of Garden of Eden story), cornucopias are abundance, books are education (and secrets), letters bring news, and so forth.
The nice thing about decks like this is that once you learn to read one of them, the rest are pretty easy to figure out. Kind of like going from the RWS to the Morgan Greer in tarot. Oh yes - you'll find some pretty well-known tarot symbols in the Iconologia, too.
Logiatrix
24-06-2008, 11:57
Just wondering how many of you have been brave enough to put the book away and use your decks intuitively?
This is something I'm working on right now with the Well Worn Path and Hidden Path oracle combination.
I did read the books right away, to get an idea of where the creators are coming from, then I put the books away. Now I'm going strictly by intuition, which wasn't easy at first, with some of the cards. Some of them look similar, but with a little online research, I was able to understand those, too. The creators also encourage using your own meanings over those in the book(s).
I'm hoping to use the deck as an all-purpose alternative to tarot, eventually.
:)
Chronata
24-06-2008, 14:10
There are many decks I don't use the book for anymore...
For instance, I read the CLOW, the Madame Endora, and the Psycards together in a single reading, and I rely on my intuition to blend them.
I can read the Morgan's without the book...but I think that's because anything useful (and much of it's not) in that lwb...I have memorized.
The best deck I have used almost exclusively now, with intuition...is the Celestial Wisdom cards. The book that goes with them is really well done, and I do like it a lot...but I have found them to be one of the very first decks that I ever read intuitively...that just happened sort of naturally and very easily!
I often wonder if it's because there's just one word on each card...and no illustrations to distract me?
The Gypsy Oracle Cards are a sibilla deck, so they are very much like Lenormand, Kipperkarten, and the 36-card versions - or the 32-card versions.
And like many tarots of the Italian variety, they take a page or eight from Cesare Ripa's Iconologia. Which didn't so much define the styles, as catalogue them. You can find it online at:
http://emblem.libraries.psu.edu/Ripa/Images/ripatoc.htm
Thanks for posting that link, Gavriela. I had no idea this existed, but I'm very much enjoying it now. :)
SpiritOfTheDogz
24-06-2008, 21:41
Thanks for posting that link, Gavriela. I had no idea this existed, but I'm very much enjoying it now. :)
I'll second that, certainly looks like a usful site to have bookmarked
Paul
Excellent site Gavriela, appreciate that!
I mostly agree with Le Fanu's point of view about oracles. It is true that often you can read the cards as symbols or pictures and get quite a decent reading. And highly intuitive readers can do this, and quite fluidly.
But to use any oracle (well, any decently thought out oracle) I also think that you need to spend time with it. I too have limited my use of oracles because I prefer to deepen my understanding of tarot. My principal exceptions have been: the Froud Faeries' Oracle which I have worked with in some depth and the Druid Sticks which are based on geomancy. I have dabbled with all of the others.
I usually read whatever accompanies the oracles when I first get them and I think that I have offered, at one time or another, readings with every oracle I own and often decide if they are for me or not by that. Generally after the first reading I don't use the book, or just for a while. Even the Grand Etteilla I have started, now on my fifth reading, to do the cards intuitively and I think the readings are better received now that I am smoothing out the book meanings with my own connections.
Alta
SpiritOfTheDogz
25-06-2008, 09:31
I think some people just see more in to a picture than others do, there are numerous decks I could say I would never read without a book as the pictures don't "speak" to me...and I am afraid to say Frouds Faeries is the top of that list, I really don't feel i will ever do that intuitively. they tend to need pictures of people doing something for me to get the idea.
Maybe with more practice other decks like the Faeries will become easier.
Paul
Gavriela
25-06-2008, 10:22
If you're reading Lenormand or sibilla type cards, first: learn what the symbols mean. Not really that daunting, and you already know lots of them.
Second: Spend a few minutes practising combinations every day - you don't have to read for anything if you don't want, just spend five or ten minutes pulling two-card combinations and working out what they mean.
Then when you read, it won't all feel quite so foreign anymore - and that particular skill transfers to a lot of oracles (sadly, Froud's Faeries isn't one of them).
But if it's European and it works off a symbol system (and there are loads of those), then it kind of transfers.
Paul, I still think you need an Eltynne deck :)
And yesterday I got l'Oeil de Lotus (which came with a LWB that had an English translation - most of the oracles I work with don't). It's hard to describe - halfway between tarot and sibilla, absolutely stunning art. That one might be good for you, too. Sammie's got some pix of it on her site, and most of them open in a big window (the cards are quite large - kind of like a wide tarot deck):
http://inthecards.wordpress.com/category/loeil-de-lotus/
SpiritOfTheDogz
25-06-2008, 20:26
If you're reading Lenormand or sibilla type cards, first: learn what the symbols mean. Not really that daunting, and you already know lots of them.
Just a point here, if I were to spend time learning symbols then it is no longer intuitive is it? All I'll be doing is readings from what I've learned and not what I see and feel!
Second: Spend a few minutes practising combinations every day
That's a good idea, never thought of that:rolleyes:
Paul, I still think you need an Eltynne deck :)
I've looked at this but I'm still not sure...if it were meant to be the deck for me then I would have been sure, so I guess it's not.
And yesterday I got l'Oeil de Lotus (which came with a LWB that had an English translation - most of the oracles I work with don't). It's hard to describe - halfway between tarot and sibilla, absolutely stunning art. That one might be good for you, too. Sammie's got some pix of it on her site, and most of them open in a big window (the cards are quite large - kind of like a wide tarot deck):
http://inthecards.wordpress.com/category/loeil-de-lotus/
Bear in mind this is my own personal opinion and in now way am I trying to put it down but it's horrid:eek:
Don't like it one bit...
Paul
Just a point here, if I were to spend time learning symbols then it is no longer intuitive is it? All I'll be doing is readings from what I've learned and not what I see and feel!
Learning keywords for the cards in no way prevents you from reading intuitively. It might just widen your horizon (and your foundation for reading intuitively in the first place).
greenbeans
26-06-2008, 02:16
Faeries Oracle is very intuitive- happy reading that without the book.
Faery Ring Oracle- although I know the rough meanings for most of the cards its not very intuitive somehow. I do feel the need for the book.
Victorian Flower Oracle- I don't really 'need' the book- heck, the cards have keywords- but the book adds to the fun.
european fortune telling systems- I haven't got round to learning how to do these (one of my projects for next year) but I bet I'll need the book forever more. I don't have the memory for all the combinations!
Gavriela
26-06-2008, 05:13
Just a point here, if I were to spend time learning symbols then it is no longer intuitive is it? All I'll be doing is readings from what I've learned and not what I see and feel!
And learning that pesky English language when you were younger put you at the mercy of it - make no mistake. Think in Hebrew, or even French, and you'll think differently, I guarantee.
It's no bad thing to expand your vocabulary, and learning symbols is one way of doing that. Intuition is simply a lightning-quick ability to put together what you know into a cogent meaning - so fast you don't even realise you're doing it.
Some people also consider road signs a drag, but most agree that they're pretty useful.
So long as you don't want to read tarot or European oracles, or modern oracles that use symbolism, you don't strictly need to learn it - though people not wanting to learn sometimes makes me cringe a little bit. There are pop oracles out there that don't rely on astrology, mythology, classical art, alchemy, religious iconology, or any of those things. I find most of them pretty shallow - but that's just my opinion.
SpiritOfTheDogz
26-06-2008, 05:16
Some people also consider road signs a drag, but most agree that they're pretty useful.
But I wonder how many drivers actually know them:)
Paul
tinkerbell
26-06-2008, 06:53
Hey Chronata,
What are the CLOW cards? I've never heard of those!
Spiritofthedogz- I love the Psycards- they were my first oracle deck and I used them a lot as they came the same time as my first Tarot deck, (Robin Wood in case you were wondering). At the time, learning the Tarot seemed such a massive undertaking that I often sought solace in my Psycards! I guess that's why we have such a deep bond. Even now, if I get stuck on a Tarot reading, I often pull a psycard or two and straight away, I find my focus, it's uncanny!
Can I read them intuitively? Yes, but I love the book so much, (the Nick Hobson one) that I do find myself looking for clarification of my initial thoughts- there's always something that I miss.
Love
Tink x
SpiritOfTheDogz
26-06-2008, 08:37
I do like the Psycards but for my style there isn't enough of them. I did get the Hobson book to try and get more out of them but haven't really got on with it, too in depth for my likings
Paul
FaeryGodmother
26-06-2008, 18:28
I think some people just see more in to a picture than others do, there are numerous decks I could say I would never read without a book as the pictures don't "speak" to me...
Can I offer some advice about this? When it comes to reading intuivtely (especially so with oracles) be more willing to be wrong. That was the hardest lesson for me to learn but it was worth it. By that i mean don't worry if it doesn't feel like you are reading 'intuitivly'. Make it up as you go along. To this day I feel like a fraud sometimes, because I feel like, what on earth am i doing??? How on earth can I jump to that conclusion from that little prompt? But experience here has taught me to go with it. No, I'm not 100% right but it often does make sense to the person I'm doing the reading for.
To put it simply, the biggest hurdle I had to overcome when it came to reading intuitivly was my own ego- my own desire to be 'right'. When I got over that (by doing lots and lots of readings) my readings got better. And I got more confident. It wasn't just about cards 'speaking' to me- it was about me listening.
SpiritOfTheDogz
26-06-2008, 18:40
Can I offer some advice about this? When it comes to reading intuivtely (especially so with oracles) be more willing to be wrong. That was the hardest lesson for me to learn but it was worth it. By that i mean don't worry if it doesn't feel like you are reading 'intuitivly'. Make it up as you go along. To this day I feel like a fraud sometimes, because I feel like, what on earth am i doing??? How on earth can I jump to that conclusion from that little prompt? But experience here has taught me to go with it. No, I'm not 100% right but it often does make sense to the person I'm doing the reading for.
To put it simply, the biggest hurdle I had to overcome when it came to reading intuitivly was my own ego- my own desire to be 'right'. When I got over that (by doing lots and lots of readings) my readings got better. And I got more confident. It wasn't just about cards 'speaking' to me- it was about me listening.
I'm not worried about being wrong, just worried about what others will think if I am...I've been told I'm know good too many times in my life and feel that if I were to open up to being wrong then I open up to being know good again...I know it has to be done but doing it is another story.
Paul
Gavriela
26-06-2008, 18:49
Then find a deck you like and play with it. It's still 'jeu de cartes' in French - a game - even when it's tarot or oracles.
Throw cards and make a story out of them - most oracles are great for that - and it doesn't matter how ridiculous or gothic or comedic you get - it's a wonderful way to learn the cards, it's fun, and there's no pressure to it, and no right or wrong.
I really encourage people to do that with Lenormand, and they often find they've worked out what the cards can mean along the way - quite painlessly.
So instead of reading for someone - tell them a story. I do it all the time, even for myself. And you know what? It works.
FaeryGodmother
26-06-2008, 18:56
I'm not worried about being wrong, just worried about what others will think if I am...I've been told I'm know good too many times in my life and feel that if I were to open up to being wrong then I open up to being know good again...I know it has to be done but doing it is another story.
Paul
I'm sorry, but you are worried about being wrong if your worried about what other people think. Thats your ego talking. Swallow your ego and be prepared to make an idiot of yourself. The worst that can happen is that someone will say, 'well, i have no idea what your talking about'.
Having said that I get where you are at with it. I'm sure most of us have been there too- at least I know have. And it is a huge leap of faith to let go of the need to be right. But as someone one standing on the other side of the chasm, I can only encourage you and wish you the best of luck with it. :)
There will always be times when you read well and other times when it feels like you can't get a single thing right, but the more you trust, the more willing you are to accept that you may be wrong, the easier it is to get amazing insights that astound even yourself.
I do like the Psycards but for my style there isn't enough of them.
I felt the same way, so I bought a second deck and shuffle them together. It went from a great deck to an awesomely great deck. :D
SpiritOfTheDogz
27-06-2008, 06:02
I felt the same way, so I bought a second deck and shuffle them together. It went from a great deck to an awesomely great deck. :D
I'd thought about doing that but didn't know how well it would work.
Paul
Logiatrix
27-06-2008, 11:16
I felt the same way, so I bought a second deck and shuffle them together. It went from a great deck to an awesomely great deck. :D
Way nifty!:thumbsup:
I enjoy doing that - combining or doubling decks, especially oracle decks. I've done it with several.
I'd thought about doing that but didn't know how well it would work.
One way I read a double deck is to interpret two of the same card as the major arcana (archetypal journey) meaning of the card, and likewise interpret singlularly revealed cards as minor arcana (day-to-day journey) meanings.
My favorite deck for reading that way was the Healing with the Angels Oracle. Might hafta bring that one out to play again...
:)
One way I read a double deck is to interpret two of the same card as the major arcana (archetypal journey) meaning of the card, and likewise interpret singlularly revealed cards as minor arcana (day-to-day journey) meanings.That's a very cool idea. I've just let the questions (and layout positions) determine the reach of the card, but I'll give this idea a try when applicable.
And I wanted to add that the other nice thing about doubling Psycards is that the deck is pretty inexpensive, so it's easy on the wallet. ;)
I'm not worried about being wrong, just worried about what others will think if I am...I've been told I'm know good too many times in my life and feel that if I were to open up to being wrong then I open up to being know good again...I know it has to be done but doing it is another story.To add to what's already been said, Paul, there are two bottom lines to that issue. You're already choosing one, but you can always change your choice:
1 - When you choose to not know or accept that you're good/talented/worth enough, then it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks: you'll always doubt yourself. When someone scoffs at you, you'll accept it as proof that you're no good, and when someone praises you, you'll accept it with surprise and rationalize that they really don't know you well enough to see how incapable you are.
2 - When you choose to know and accept your innate goodness/skill/worth, then it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks: you'll always support yourself. When someone scoffs at you, you'll accept it as proof that they're not a very good judge, and when someone praises you, you'll accept it in good graces because you already know how good you are.
Either way, it really doesn't matter one whit what anyone else thinks. Invest yourself where you feel drawn to, and explore what's drawn you there. If trying something new makes you look silly or foolish for awhile, well, welcome to the club that all beginners join as soon as they start something new. We've ALL been in that club, even many, many times over.
Don't be afraid to be a beginner and make the inevitable mistakes. It's why they call that important card "The Fool." :party:
Logiatrix
27-06-2008, 14:49
Don't be afraid to be a beginner and make the inevitable mistakes. It's why they call that important card "The Fool." :party:
Very well said, silverr, I love it!:thumbsup:
:love:
May I appropriate this quote for my signature, pretty please?:D
Logiatrix
27-06-2008, 15:35
Ha! be my guest. :laugh:
...and there it is!:D
Sincerely, it is such a true statement, and applicable to...well, everything, IMO.:heart:
SpiritOfTheDogz, I can sorta relate. Reading intuitively scared me, too. My comfort zone was playing cards and Marseille-type decks, where I relied heavily on numerology and the elements. In fact, when I first got to AT, I was kind of ashamed of reading with playing cards, as I thought they were inferior to tarot! Of course, I later learned differently, but I still felt inferior as a reader, compared to those who could read intuitively. To me, it was like the difference between black-and-white (my way) versus technicolor (the intuitive way).
I'd already been reading for seven or eight years by the time I tried to read intuitively, but I might as well have been a novice. For some people, intuitive reading seems to come naturally, but I sure had to do some work. I did a lot of notes and so on, and then I just had to take the plunge and practice. I did an ODW stint and forced myself to use a RWS deck exclusively.
I'm glad I jumped in; it was worth it. I can't speak for others, but stretching my intuition muscles has truly expanded my reading ability, especially with oracles.
:)
ETA: Looky there...I'm at my 2,000th post! Woo-hoo!:party:
SpiritOfTheDogz
27-06-2008, 17:06
To add to what's already been said, Paul, there are two bottom lines to that issue. You're already choosing one, but you can always change your choice:
1 - When you choose to not know or accept that you're good/talented/worth enough, then it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks: you'll always doubt yourself. When someone scoffs at you, you'll accept it as proof that you're no good, and when someone praises you, you'll accept it with surprise and rationalize that they really don't know you well enough to see how incapable you are.
2 - When you choose to know and accept your innate goodness/skill/worth, then it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks: you'll always support yourself. When someone scoffs at you, you'll accept it as proof that they're not a very good judge, and when someone praises you, you'll accept it in good graces because you already know how good you are.
Either way, it really doesn't matter one whit what anyone else thinks. Invest yourself where you feel drawn to, and explore what's drawn you there. If trying something new makes you look silly or foolish for awhile, well, welcome to the club that all beginners join as soon as they start something new. We've ALL been in that club, even many, many times over.
Don't be afraid to be a beginner and make the inevitable mistakes. It's why they call that important card "The Fool." :party:
Thanks for that, it is something I tell myself on a regular basis and I know the "real" truth, accepting it and changing my 40 plus years of using a certain thought process isn't easy. I thought negative thoughts about everything I do since being very small, it isn't to do with the thought of making mistakes because it's all new, I fear making mistakes with things I've done for years..it's just me. I know to get anywhere in the world, whether it's in work or just reading cards I need to be more positive and I am trying very hard to be but reproggramming takes a long time:)
Paul
...and there it is!:DLooking good. And congrats on #2000! :thumbsup:
Thanks for that, it is something I tell myself on a regular basis and I know the "real" truth, accepting it and changing my 40 plus years of using a certain thought process isn't easy. I thought negative thoughts about everything I do since being very small, it isn't to do with the thought of making mistakes because it's all new, I fear making mistakes with things I've done for years..it's just me. I know to get anywhere in the world, whether it's in work or just reading cards I need to be more positive and I am trying very hard to be but reproggramming takes a long time:)
PaulIn deepest sincerity, I say to that: BAH.
Time isn't a factor at all. What you've chosen in the past isn't a factor either. Whether you choose A or choose B is the only factor. Naturally what you've chosen before over and over has become habitual, so it feels more comfortable as it doesn't require any thinking, awareness or effort; it's a smoothly-worn groove. As long as you're happy with that, hold onto it because it's working for you. But when you start wanting something outside of that worn groove (which seems to be why you opened this topic), you'll need to put forth the smidgeon of effort it takes to make a different choice.
It's like eating at the same restaurant every Saturday night, and although you always spend some time looking over the enticing menu, you always order the same meal every week. There's nothing wrong with ordering the same meal every week. You keep ordering it because you enjoy it. But then one week, if you want to sample something *different* from your usual, you need to pay some actual attention to the menu, and instead of giving the usual response to the server who asks, "what'll it be?", you need to choose different words.
And that would actually be a good challenge for you, Paul: if you *want* to make a change in your self-image, then start by making a change in the words you use. Whenever you notice yourself using words/phrases that shortchange yourself and offer no self-support (like your last post), use the backspace key and then come up with supportive words/phrases instead. Sure, it'll *seem* like a whole lot of extra effort at first, because you'll be encouraging yourself to pay attention to what you say and what you verbally think instead of just coasting along in that worn groove. But after you get kick the engine over a couple times, you'll find you can adapt to different words (and accept a different view) much more readily than you've given yourself credit for.
And once you've put in some mileage on choosing supportive words, you'll likely find you're getting a deeper, more intuitive connection with the cards.
That's my input, and I'm off the soapbox. I will just say that there's a lot of good info and advice throughout this thread for you - and for anyone else interested in reading without the book. It's a good thread. :)
SpiritOfTheDogz
27-06-2008, 21:48
In deepest sincerity, I say to that: BAH.
Time isn't a factor at all. What you've chosen in the past isn't a factor either. Whether you choose A or choose B is the only factor. Naturally what you've chosen before over and over has become habitual, so it feels more comfortable as it doesn't require any thinking, awareness or effort; it's a smoothly-worn groove. As long as you're happy with that, hold onto it because it's working for you. But when you start wanting something outside of that worn groove (which seems to be why you opened this topic), you'll need to put forth the smidgeon of effort it takes to make a different choice.
Time IS a factor what has spent 40 years in the making can't be changed as siple as that, I'm not saying it can't be done and I'm not saying I'm not trying but 40 years of being told you're useless and getting knocked down everytime you stand up does take it's toll. It's not even down to awareness of effort as you put it, as thee is no effort in doing something that HAS become so natural over the years that it happens without even thinking about it, therefore am not aware, until its too late.
I KNOW i'm stuck in a groove and it will take effort to get and I'm making that effort, the way your last post reads is though you think I'm making no effort at all. If you'd known how bad I was a year ago, or even too and so on, you'd know what effort I HAVE put in already
And that would actually be a good challenge for you, Paul: if you *want* to make a change in your self-image, then start by making a change in the words you use. Whenever you notice yourself using words/phrases that shortchange yourself and offer no self-support (like your last post), use the backspace key and then come up with supportive words/phrases instead. Sure, it'll *seem* like a whole lot of extra effort at first, because you'll be encouraging yourself to pay attention to what you say and what you verbally think instead of just coasting along in that worn groove. But after you get kick the engine over a couple times, you'll find you can adapt to different words (and accept a different view) much more readily than you've given yourself credit for.
I agree with what you are saying here but disagree with how simple you are making it sound like "Whenever you notice yourself...", that's the point I don't, not often enough anyway.
When i do notice, it isn't just a case of kicking the ngine of a couple of times, it'll take a lot more than that.
I'm not saying that what you say isn't right but you certainly have no idea of the enormity of the task.
Hang on a minute while I just backspace verything I've written:)
Paul
Hang on a minute while I just backspace verything I've written:)
Paul:laugh:
It feels odd to be adding to a discussion that seems to have ended more than six months ago, but reading (and re-reading) the posts in this thread has been such an eye-opener and a confirmation of my own experiences (that I had not clearly put into words for myself) that I really must urge anyone who happens across it to READ IT ALL.
For what it's worth, I used to read Tarot by the book & spent years learning the RWS card meanings & managed some decent results for myself and a few trusting friends. Then I joined TABI & in the course of their Endorsement process learned (from Joy of Angel Corner - look her up) to trust my intuitive feelings alongside the "book" meanings. That was the start of an amazing journey similar to Paul's, and now I'm beginning to acquire a few oracle decks to broaden/deepen my scope, and many, many querents now tell me my (free - which may have some bearing) readings are really helpful and 'accurate'. Faery Godmother, I love your advice here.
I read the Tarot of the Imagination and even the Tarot of Origins (Sergio Toppi's artwork really "resonates" for me) but personally I can't be doing with too many elves & fairies, or with artwork like the Lotus one mentioned - I'm a bit of an art snob - but it doesn't seem to matter which deck we use, so long as we trust our reading of the images/meanings, regardless of what the card is supposed to mean.
Whatever...I'm beginning to lose track of what I want to say, so I'll sign off, but THANK YOU ALL so much for sharing your wisdom and your fears.
~Charles/heron/man