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Paul
29-06-2008, 14:07
Forgive me if this has been asked and answered...

When I read for my marriage spouse-- BUT! I am the astrologer-- do I "turn" the chart ? (Typically, if someone reads for a Querent who is asking about his partner/spouse, the astrologer turns the chart and takes House 7 as House 1, and so forth, therein adjusting the house system to accomodate the turning.)

So, this is not exactly a Querent asking the astrologer about his spouse; but, instead, the astrologer as the Querent asking about his spouse.

Uggh!

Minderwiz
29-06-2008, 20:28
If you are asking a question on behalf of your wife then she takes the first house, as she is the querent by proxy. Treat such horaries in the normal way

If you are asking a question about your wife then you will have to use derived houses as necessary

For example, if your wife has lost an earring and asks you 'where is my earring?' I'd take that as a horary question asked by your wife and any resulting chart is 'her' chart. As such the earring as movable property, gets the second. I'd treat it as such even if the idea of casting a chart has not been raised and you only think of the idea after the question has been posed. A question exists and your wife asked it.

If she has lost the earring and you decide to cast a chart to help locate it, then you are the querent and get the first. She, as your partner, gets the seventh and the earring, as movable property, gets the eighth (second from the seventh).? In these circumstances your wife does not ask a question - you do and the question is yours - 'where is my wife's earring?'

The key issue then is who asked the question. Now this might not always be obvious as the question might have arisen out of your joint interaction. I have been through the same experience (several times) and now spend a few minutes making sure I know who asked the question. For example, if your wife simply says 'I wish I new where my earring is' and you cast a chart as a response then I'd take that as a 'where is my wife's earring?' chart as she has not asked a specific question, only expressed a wish.

Paul
29-06-2008, 23:30
Very, very helpful-- thank you!

This will be confusing sometimes, because I often ask questions "on behalf of..." thus spouse=querent by proxy, and I was turning the chart; mostly, this was because the question and its timing seemed to bubble up urgingly, if you will, from me. No, wait, that's wrong-- my partner asked the question, and then I thought, "Oooh! How about a Horary chart!" Then, I went into my Hogwarts Dumbledore chamber (my office), ;) and completed one behind the scenes. So that was querent by proxy.

Minderwiz
30-06-2008, 00:04
Yeah, such situations can be difficult to resolve. The only other thing I can add is to think about the interval between the issue arising and the chart being cast. Generally (and it is generally rather than every time) \\i find the longer the interval the more likely it is that I'm the querent and not my wife. Like you I've suddenly got an urge to cast a chart maybe an hour or more after the issue arises (sometimes the following morning or I wake up during the night). In those cases the question has arisen out of my curiosity and I tend to treat it as my chart, unless there's a good reason not to (such as my wife saying words to the effect of 'haven't you done a chart yet'.

If on the other hand my wife urges me to do a chart shortly after the issue is raised I tend to treat her as the querent. I still think about it but if I feel driven to cast a chart, then it's usually my chart.

As there are so many ways in which a question arises in such cases I don't think we can lay down perfect rules but the key remains 'whose question is it?'' and some reflection usually provides an answer. If you find the odd circumstance in which you just can't be sure then do both. That is cast a single chart and look at it firstly with your partner as querent and then with you as querent. Note your answers and compare them with the real world outcome. Hoperfully the worst you will get out of it is a learning process.

It's a good thoughtful question you raised and the fact that you raised it shows that your approach is on the right lines. In many ways the most important step in horary is the analysis of the question, even before the chart is cast.

Just one additional point - As the Astrologer you get the Seventh House of the radical chart irrespective of who asks the question. So if it's your question then you get the first as querent and seventh as Astrologer. If the question relates to your wife then she also gets the seventh. These are the 'rules' but I've never come across a question where the 'Astrologer' was a significator in the horary. I suppose if the querent asked the horary question are you a competent horary astrologer then it might but the mind boggles at such a question.

silverwings94
30-06-2008, 01:24
Where does one find charts for Horary Astrology?
S

Minderwiz
30-06-2008, 04:30
A horary chart is just like a natal chart, in that it is cast for one specific moment. Whereas for a natal chart that time is the moment of a person's birth, for a horary chart that time is the moment that an Astrologer understands a question asked by a querent. Just like Tarot, you can cast a horary chart for your own question in which case you are the querent, or you can read for someone else, in which case they are the querent.

The Astrologer then interprets the symbolism of the chart, just as a tarot reader would interpret a spread. Unlike Tarot there is less freedom for the Astrologer to interpret the symbols, though there is still a fair amount of scope. The rules for interpretation are rooted in traditional Astrology and therefore are a bit strange for the modern Astrologer but at the time they were developed they were consistent with the approach for reading any chart, whether natal, horary, event, medical or mundane.

You can find an example at the following website

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/william-lilly/report-true.php

Don't worry too much about following the detail of the argument, just try to get an impression of what's going on and how the chart is being used to provide an answer to the question.

If we get any further specific horaries being raised I'll try and post a chart so everyone can follow the arguments.