Aeclectic Tarot Forum - Creating a BTVS deck

alicamel

24-02-2002, 03:58

Thanks.

I never considered using Anya as Justice - interesting! I'm basing my deck on the Thoth Tarot Deck, and he calls card 8 Adjustment. I thought I might have Doyle fits both as Justice, in the sense that he is helping balance out Angel's wrongs by helping him fight evil, and as Adjustment as he is struggling to balance both his human and demon sides.

Besides, I think Anya suits The Sun much better. Tactless, vain, with skills in financial matters. : )

For the minors, I thought Wands would be Slaying, demons, good vs evil etc. Buffy as the Ace of Wands, Faith as Dominion, The First Slayer as Virtue, Kendra as Completion. The Court cards: Knight - Angelus, Queen - Darla, Prince - Spike, Princess - Drusilla.

The rest is less thought out. Cups, possibly relationships, with Xander as the Ace. Ace of Swords is definately Willow; the theme could be magic, (and/or intelligence?)

Don't know about Disks. Was considering the Initiative as a theme, but don't really now. Giles as the Ace, just to round out the four?

I think I've been thinking about this too much when I've got exams next week. :P

Alice

Hush

24-02-2002, 14:33

wow, thats such a good idea!!!!!!

im a huge btvs fan and a huge tarot obsessee, this is so cool (:

*tries to think up who could be used for what cards*

Hush

24-02-2002, 15:07

having looked over them, i like them...

couldnt you use more varied pictures then characters though? you have darla for the tower, but you could use the tower that glory builds at the end of series 5, or for the hermit you could take a screen cap of buffy when she's standing alone in the desert or something, there are a lot of things that you could use...

i lovethe death card btw, exactly how i imagined it.

theyre great (:

Major Tom

25-02-2002, 09:37

I'm a huge Buffy fan so I had to have a look. }>

Your cards look good so far but I've got a couple of comments you might want to consider:

1. Have you thought about contacting the producers of the series? They might be interested enough to provide an advance so you can devote more time to finishing the deck. They might be interested in publishing it - after all there is a huge market for Buffy/Angel related material.

2. Your designs are a bit stark - not much for someone to use for interpretation unless they are huge fans. That includes me I guess, because I don't recognise some of the characters you've used. Maybe you could include some symbols too?

Good luck with your deck.

Geenius at Wrok

25-02-2002, 10:28

Major Tom (26 Feb, 2002 00:37):
Have you thought about contacting the producers of the series? They might be interested enough to provide an advance so you can devote more time to finishing the deck. They might be interested in publishing it - after all there is a huge market for Buffy/Angel related material.

Plus, if the deck is an "approved" BtVS product, you can probably gain access to all sorts of official production art—actual scenes from episodes and whatnot.

Geenius at Wrok

25-02-2002, 10:39

A thought: Instead of "Wands," what about "Stakes"? ;-)

Kiama

25-02-2002, 12:09

I too like the characters you have chosen for the Majors, esp Angel for the Hanged Man. But I do agree that you may need some more symbolism in there to help out those of us who aren't as full of Buffy knowledge as we would like!

Major: I see we are rooting out all the secret Buffy admirers slowly. ;p

Kiama

Hush

25-02-2002, 12:35

you can easily get screen caps from buffyguide.com or wherever, they have a huuuuge selection of frames from eps from s1 to s5.

i wonder how interested the buffy people would be...i think they'd probably take the idea and re work it all to make it more sellable and stuff, coz theyd wanna put their own angle on it, if you know what i mean.

bah i dunno...heh

Razz

27-02-2002, 22:42

What a great idea! I am creating a deck of Tarot for a friend. It's not BtVS, but what a great idea! I wish I had thought of that.

How are you coming along with it? Have you decided how to do the major/minor arcana? I am curious to know how you did that?

I could see Giles in the role of the Hierophant so very easily. Would you have Buffy as?

Razz

dolphingirl

27-02-2002, 23:04

HI

I love Buffy! here are a few ideas I had. You could use holy water for cups. for the suits you could use Zander for cups Giles and Buffy for swords as both are different ideas of swords. Willow, Oz and Tara could be pentacles. Wands (Stakes could be Angel and Spike & Drue :)

Cant wait to see more!!!
Samantha

Razz

28-02-2002, 22:29

I like dolphingirl's idea about using the different suits, but I thought of them as the major arcana. Got to thinking about this today.

I see Dawn as the Fool. Willow as the Magician. Like I said before, Giles as the Hierophant, Joyce would be the Papess. I see Buffy as the Wheel of Fortune card or the Universe card. Not sure why either one of them, but I do. I see Dru as the Devil or the Death card. I see Spike as the Tower. The Lovers I do see Angel and Buffy (even though I do like very much Spike and Buffy).

Hope to hear more about your deck!

Razz

amyel

01-03-2002, 20:17

Buffy Rocks!

P.S. Razz...ya gotta be careful here because we have international BtVS fans on this site who aren't on season 6 yet.

I keep trying to tease Kiama, but she's not biting. (OW! No pun intended!!!)

alicamel

02-03-2002, 08:54

Wow, I didn't realise there'd be so much interest in a BTVS deck!

I'm not sure why I chose characters to represent all the major arcana, it just happened - once I got started I could pretty much find a major character for every card. Only one I'm stubling over is Card 20 - The Angel/Last Judgement. CurrentlyI've chosen Dawn, but I don't think she fits all that well. I origanally though that I would use Buffy jumping off the tower at the end of season 5, but then I thought it might seem odd to have that when all the other cards were characters. Any ideas?

I think the characters represent the postitive and negative sides of the card much better than images, though I can see how it would be a bit stale. Also, you definately have to be a fairly huge fan to get all the depths of meaning. Hopefully when I add the descriptions that will help, but I definately agree that there needs to be more symbolism on the cards.

So, question for you all: what kind of symbolism would you like? Something as simple as adding the astrological, planetary and elemental symbols to each card, or something more complex? (This is all baring in mind my extremely limited computer art skills. I'm learning as I go along, but I can't guarentee great works of art!)

I like the suggestions for the suit names. :)

Razz: Buffy is currently XIII - Death. She is also currently the Ace of Wands (or stakes ;) )

I'm still working on themes for minor arcana. I've worked out who I want the first four cards of Wands to be (Buffy, Faith, First Slayer and Kendra, in that order) Willow as the Ace of Swords, and Xander as the Ace of Cups. Again, I fnd myself sticking with people rather than images or situations. I think it may have something to do with how I'm looking at the tarot cards. I always view them as people when I'm looking into the, or writing descriptions of them. I'm not sure how successful this approach is going to be?

Thanks to those of you who suggested I contact the Buffy people. It may be better to wait until I at least have completely planned out the deck.

Also, how big a market do you think there would be for a Buffy Tarot deck? I know there is a big market for Buffy merchandise, but a tarot deck is much more specific than books or posters of jewellery etc.

Wow, this is a long post. Thanks for all the support and suggestions. Guess I better keep working on it!

Thanks,
Alice

Thirteen

02-03-2002, 09:01

Razz (01 Mar, 2002 13:29):
I see Dawn as the Fool. Willow as the Magician. Like I said before, Giles as the Hierophant, Joyce would be the Papess. I see Buffy as the Wheel of Fortune card or the Universe card. Not sure why either one of them, but I do. I see Dru as the Devil or the Death card. I see Spike as the Tower. The Lovers I do see Angel and Buffy (even though I do like very much Spike and Buffy).

I agree with some of these, however: Joyce is far more the Empress. She was a "MOM" through and through, patient, worried, fussy, nurturing. Very Empress.

I'd cast Tara as the Papess or--who was the Techno-witch, Giles' girlfriend who tried to restore Angel?

I agree that Buffy should be UNIVERSE card! Absolutely. She's not only the center around which everyone revolves (the center of the universe), but as a Slayer, she is universal. Every generation, all around the world. Eternal.

I agree also that one should reach for other images, like the Tower that Glory built for the Tower. As for "The Devil" why not the Mayor?

Oz is THE MOON. Tara as Temperance or The Star. I'd actually put Spike as The Lovers (with Dru to one side, Buffy to the other)--and it works if you think about it. The one thing Spike has ALWAYS been is a lover. Good, bad or otherwise, he admits, he's Love's bitch.

So who's the Emperor?

Thirteen

02-03-2002, 09:27

alicamel (24 Feb, 2002 18:58):
For the minors, I thought Wands would be Slaying, demons, good vs evil etc. Buffy as the Ace of Wands, Faith as Dominion, The First Slayer as Virtue, Kendra as Completion. The Court cards: Knight - Angelus, Queen - Darla, Prince - Spike, Princess - Drusilla.

I don't quite understand the use of people as "aces." Do you mean that each suit would be dominated by a person? That would work out far better. For example: "Stakes" (or wands) would be dominated by Buffy and other slayers, with Buffy as the "queen" and Riley as Knight (he was the closet to a male slayer there was on the show), Faith as prince (never mind the gender, you know she's the "prince"), Kendra as Princess and scenes of stakes or "staking" or carrying stakes as numbers 1 (ace) through 10. And the FIRST SLAYER would HAVE to be THE ACE. Because she's the one who started it all. And Aces are just that, the raw power of the suit, it's seed.

Instead of Swords, have "Watchers" (or books--swords = intellect, air, mind. These dominated by the Watchers)--images for 1-10: Giles, Wes, the Council, Rayne (sp?--you know, the trouble maker) and pages or piles of books. They're always fortelling trouble anyway. Giles would be Knight of this suit. Willow, at her computer, it's queen, Wes it's prince, and Fred the princess.

Champions or Love would be dominated by Angel, who would be Knight, with Cordy as Queen, Gun as prince and Darla as princess. Love scenes, all the romances that ever were in the show, would dominate from 1-10. Imagine the scene where Cordy and Oz see Xander and Willow kissing as 5 of Cups--Cordy and Oz only see disastor, and can't, at that moment, think of anything positive--very 5 of cups.

Finally, you'd have "Mortals" and that would have Xander as the Knight, Anya as the queen (she's coming to terms with being mortal), Jonathan as prince and Dawn as princess. Images of the mortal world which does intrude on the lives of our characters 1-10.

Does any of that work?

alicamel

02-03-2002, 12:42

Thirteen (03 Mar, 2002 00:27):
I don't quite understand the use of people as "aces." Do you mean that each suit would be dominated by a person? That would work out far better.

And herein lies my problem. When I talk about, say the 4 of Wands, I'm not picture two wands and symbols. I'm trying to attact what is connected with that card to a person. In this case it is 'Completion' - the energy of the Ace built into a solid, immoveable system, perfected work built from previous knowledge etc. Well, that's Kendra: the Slayer that is trained, perfected, polished, immoveable. She might have been Buffy, exccept that she has been moulded into a specfic shape. See?

And the FIRST SLAYER would HAVE to be THE ACE. Because she's the one who started it all. And Aces are just that, the raw power of the suit, it's seed.

I've used the fight of good against evil as the theme for Wands, and Buffy is the source of that in the series. No one else would be fighting if not for her: Willow would be a computer geek, Angel would be moping around in gutter, Giles would be back in England reading stuff. She inspires them to better things: Willow remains in Sunnydale at the end of S3 and tells Buffy it's because she wants to be a part of that fight. Things and people start (such as Dawn) and change (such as Willow) because of her. For me that is the Ace of Wands: great, inspiring, natural energy that changes everything. She has the heart that the First Slayer does not: she is a true hero.

I've seen the Ace of Wands repeatedly be described as as outburst of firey energy, and from that I've formed a view of it (perhaps wrongly) as a Solar Flare; bursting out, each time different, affecting things both obviously and inobviously. Buffy remodels herself, according to what is required of her, like a solar flare, bursting out, but willing to return and come back again. That's the difference between her and Faith, and why Faith is 2 - fire in it's highest form. If Buffy's a solar flare then Faith is the fire that keeps being fueled, building higher and higher without rest.

The First Slayer is not the source for anything. She has the raw power of the Slayer, the source for which is TPTB. She's a conduit, through which the chain of Slayers began. She's not the source for the battle of good vs. evil: she didn't fight because it was right, she didn't fight because she cared about anything. She was alone, following her calling, fighting evil, without understanding why. Admitedly the choice to place her as 3 was largely influenced by Crowley's Thoth Deck, where the card is described as primal energy (that she is) manifesation of hope (also is: she is hope that good will win) conceited and arrogant. (if she is only focused on herself and no one else, this seems inevitable.)

Does any of that work?

I can really see these working - I especially like the Champions!

I'm still really trying to figure out how to approach the minor arcana. One way would be how you suggest, with the court cards and then piles of books, stakes, etc. I'd still like to use a combination of people/groups/situations for the numbered cards though. I'm very undecided.

amyel

02-03-2002, 15:17

Alicamel,
I know you are basing your BtVS on the Thoth deck, but perhaps an answer to your minor arcana canundrum would be to take an approach similar to the Mythic Tarot. This deck uses basic myths from Greek mythology to illustrate (both figuratively and textually) the minor arcana. Keep in mind Joss Whedon has always maintained that essentially, BtVS is a story about growing up - the demons & slaying and stuff are just the backdrop against which Buffy and her friends grow.

For example, this season has several story lines, but at it's core it is about the passage from late teen to young adult - learning to stand on one's own two feet and the pitfalls young adults often make during this transition, i.e. Willow's addiction, Buffy's lust, even Xander's leap into "real adulthood" with Anya (being purposefully vague here for those who are not in season 6). Contrasting against this is Dawn's seemingly "normal" teenage expressions - skipping classes, stealing, talking back, etc - all set to contrast with what dedicated fans know of Buffy's teenage angst (who could say she ever had a "normal" teenage years??) and contrast with Buffy's role as the adult.

So, two tatics you could try:

1) Set each minor arcana suite against a storyline - either seasonally or one that runs through all seasons (Willow's desire to be seen as "cool", Buffy's desire to find normalacy despite her role as Slayer, Xander's desire to escape his family history); or
2) Choose a theme for each suite (this should follow standard Tarot, i.e cups = relationships, etc) and find smaller storylines to demonstrate.

Since minor arcana is dealing with emotions and "everyday" lessons & issues, trying to depict characters to respresent them will be a struggle, IMHO. Better to let the situations and storylines, issues and ethics and emotions describe these cards.

Anyway, that was my thought as I returned to this thread.

Thirteen

02-03-2002, 16:10

Alicamel,

I understand why you're choosing what you're choosing, but I think you're not making this deck very user friendly. You're sinking so deep into Crowley's meanings that you're interpeting the minors as as people, not events.

Virtue is not a person. It's an action, something you ARE in a situation. You can't be virtuous just sitting and doing nothing. It's when you're in a situation that tests you, and you act virtuous that you're "virtuous". Ditto with "completion." That's not referring to a person, not even by Crowley--it's something that's finished. A project worked on and perfected. Yes, Kendra's complete. And you see that. But if you hand a card with her on it, even with the word, "completion" under it, will anyone else understand? More to the point, will a lot of people understand? Or will they say, "um, she's completion because she died?" That's what I'd think. We have to understand your reasoning, read your mind, to "get it."

Tarot cards, tarot readings, and especially the minor archana are events. Each 1-10 minor archana tells a story. So the Ace doesn't show a woman, or Buffy, but the event that starts it all. The torch on fire, the wand alight with magic. So what SCENE can you have for the Ace of Wands to SHOW what you mean? Buffy, yes, but the image of Buffy as she turns around, lollipop in mouth, when her first Watcher tells her, "You're the choosen one!" That gives the READER an idea of what this card is about, finding that first fire. The person who starts it all, at the moment when they became THAT person.

Or take Wands 2--what image would SHOW the STORY of "fire in its highest form"--Faith doing WHAT? At what point was she at her highest, about to burn out form? Perhaps the best scene for that would be Buffy and Faith hanging in the air, during that final, fatal fight, seemingly equal, certainly equally energized, motivated, and perpared to kill. Two wands, burning bright, which will burn out?

Crowley is a hard deck, and not for beginners. Definately use his definitions, as they're fantastic, but remember that his images for the minors are not easy for beginners. Think more of RW in that case. I know you're deeply into this, and have it really thought out, but unless you plan to make the deck for your-eyes-only, no one else is going to understand your reasoning without a very thick book of explainations--and, more to the point, they're going t have a hard time remembering them. The image on both major and minor arcana should be as clear as clear can be to the reader. An image that will help them remember the meaning. Think storytelling.

Geenius at Wrok

03-03-2002, 11:05

I'm with Thirteen—the minors should feature scenes, not be represented by individuals. For one thing, you're gonna get huge amounts of overlap if you try to make each card a character. You're also going to wind up elevating minor characters who aren't as significant as the ones they're standing alongside. And I'd use single symbols for the Aces. Question is, what's the Buffy-world equivalent of a cup? Stakes, swords and amulets are all recurring images, but I can't say I've ever noticed people using cups a whole lot. (Maybe a coffee cup with the logo of the Bronze on the side. ;-) ) However, I'd still call the suits by their traditional names—having a "5 of Watchers" would be a bad idea, IMO. On the other hand, the court cards really suggest themselves as a good home for secondary characters who don't quite make the cut for the major arcana.

I think most of your major arcana choices are spot on, even though I'm not a fan of Thoth decks (would rather see Strength and Temperance than Lust and Art). I can see why you chose Oz for Art (or even Temperance, in a cautionary sort of way), though I think he'd make a phenomenal Hermit. Drusilla is perfect for the Moon—there's no way to top that choice. Similarly, Xander is perfect for the Fool, Faith for the Devil. (Anya for the Sun? Eh, maybe.) I do like the idea of using the tower from the fifth season as the Tower, though if you wanted to inject a little humor into the deck, you could use Sunnydale High School getting blown up. :) I agree with Thirteen that Spike belongs on the Lovers card. Don't you think Riley would make a good Strength (or Chariot, if you're dead-set on using Thoth majors)?

If you're going to take any liberties with card naming, here's what I'd suggest: Leave the major arcana mostly intact, but substitute one or two special cards for characters whose roles just don't allow them to fit anywhere else (e.g., Dawn—why not have "the Key" as a card?). Don't futz with the suit names, but maybe futz with the court card titles. For example, instead of King-Queen-Knight-Page—which will introduce awkward gender conflicts in a show that's always had more female than male characters in strong roles—you could have Champion (strong allies), Guardian (back-watchers), Adversary (foes) and Disciple (interesting minor characters). How about Kendra as the Champion of Staves? Forrest as the Guardian of Staves? Adam as the Adversary of Staves? Jenny Calendar as the Guardian of Swords? Michael as the Disciple of Cups? As for the minors, there are a couple of decks, including the Nigel Jackson, that feature Marseilles-style pip patterns with illustrated tableaux below on the 2 through 10 minors. I think that would be a great way to go in this deck.

Razz

03-03-2002, 11:25

Thanks for the heads up about the season and Buffy. Thank Goodness nothing slipped! I did forget that this was global and that people are seeing a different season elsewhere.

Not sure who said Joyce being the mother. That was true-- good call on that one!

Razz

Geenius at Wrok

03-03-2002, 12:23

Dude, I just realized—you don't have Willow appearing anywhere among the major arcana! That won't do at all. You could have her as the Magician, or you could make her the High Priestess and make Tara Temperance (though I think Tara makes a better High Priestess than Willow does).

Kiama

03-03-2002, 13:05

Razz (04 Mar, 2002 02:25):
Thanks for the heads up about the season and Buffy. Thank Goodness nothing slipped! I did forget that this was global and that people are seeing a different season elsewhere.

Razz

Stop teasing me! Damnit! All I've heard about the new season so far is what's already been accidentally mentioned here. (Buffy and Spike- FINALLY!!!! I've been waiting for this ever since Spike first showed up. I mean, who wouldn't wanna sleep with this guy?)

As for Willow: Definitely not the HPS. She's to unsure of herself and what she knows, whereas Tara is confident, full of wisdom, ahead of her years... But Willow for the Magician could be good, cuz she's very practical, always trying things out, practicing what she knows, etc.... And she's a wizard on the computer. Sorry, bad pun!

How about, for the Lovers, the scene just after Spike has re-met with Dru, and she's managed to get him not to react to the chip put in his head by the army guys. Anyway, the scene is where he's got Buffy captured, and he has to choose between Buffy and Dru. I hope you guys know which scene I'm referring to, cuz I don't know the season or episode it's in!

So, hope this helps!

Kiama

kayne

03-03-2002, 13:16

Amicamel: I hope you will join our Tarot Deck Creation Study group in the study group section of the forums. :)

(We would love some more input!)

Major Tom

04-03-2002, 04:00

I hope all the other contributers to this thread find their way to the tarot deck creation study group too. :-) There's lots of good advice in this thread. ;D

purplelady

07-03-2002, 22:25

Hmmmm, well maybe I'm the only one who thinks Spike works well for "Lust"! How about this- For the Lover's , have Buffy in the middle with Angel on one side and Spike on the other! :D .
I almost think the majors work as they are , simplicity..........almost. But I agree there could be more symbolism. Or more Action. There needs to be a sense of movement , action , or a story on the minors.

Geenius at Wrok

07-03-2002, 23:51

Originally posted by purplelady
[B]Hmmmm, well maybe I'm the only one who thinks Spike works well for "Lust"! How about this- For the Lover's , have Buffy in the middle with Angel on one side and Spike on the other!
Oh, I do think Spike is a good choice for Lust . . . I just think it's kinda silly to have a Lust card in there in the first place. Not a Thoth fan, as I said. And I can't think of anyone who's a better choice for the Lovers.

Just saw a rerun of the fifth-season episode in which Drusilla comes back to Sunnydale. The scene in which Spike has both Dru and Buffy chained up and tells Buffy that he'll kill Dru if she can accept his love, but if she can't, he'll unchain Dru and let her kill Buffy . . . now that's what belongs on the Lovers card!

Razz

10-03-2002, 18:22

Not sure why, but I really enjoy reading all the comments on this topic.

Also wondering how the deck is coming?

I was creating a deck --not Buffy-- for a friend for Christmas, but have not finished the deck yet. Maybe this Christmas...teehee.

I didn't realize that that many people had created their own decks.

Checking in,

Razz

Zoe Grace

06-01-2005, 12:16

I've seen a lot of btvs decks on the web (not commercially available) if a commercial deck were to come out, I would probably get it, however I would probably be pissed off about many of the choices.

I decided early this morning that I'm going to make my own BTVS deck. for my own personal use. i doubt I would seek publication because A. there are likely many other people seeking publication for a btvs deck and also I wouldn't be comfortable with a publisher editing my choices. I have very specific reasons for the choices I would make concerning the cards.

Also...each card to me...isn't necessarily a character thing as much as a character within a specific scene thing.

There was an online deck with used willow as the devil and no one got that. perhaps if they had her strung out at rack's place they would have gotten it, as the devil card is all about addiction enslavement etc.

i agree with the idea of angel/buffy as the lovers even though I prefer spike and buffy together because the lovers are the dizzy fizzy beginning part of a relationship before it's been tested, it's the naivity of the fool in relationship form. So definitely angel. buffy never had that with spike because angel colored things too much.

Joyce to me would be the empress most definitely, as giles would be the heirophant.

Someone online had jonathan as the fool and I was like WHAT? I would make buffy the fool. but buffy in SEASON ONE. while she's naive and innocent and unaware to a large extent of all the dangers out there...while she's still trying to do cheerleading AND slaying. The fool's journey is also the hero's journey and no one really deserves to be the fool more than buffy (season one)

Zoe Grace

06-01-2005, 12:19

Spike and buffy together would belong on the devil card IMO. there are a million reasons why. Spike is a demon literally. their relationship is all about sex, and bondage (although not the literal fun kind), it's about addiction, it's about power and control and it's unhealthy (at least in season 6), it's abusive...etc. although the primary abuser is buffy. definitely if we are putting spike and buffy on a card, I would have to go with the devil card. the lovers card is too innocent.

Zoe Grace

06-01-2005, 12:25

i said giles should be the heirophant, i meant to say the emperor...the watcher's council should be the heirophant.

HudsonGray

06-01-2005, 16:05

No, I think it would work the other way around--the Watcher's Council as the Emperor and Giles as Hierophant.

The Emperor says 'do this' and wants it done. That's the Watcher council all the way, with no consideration of the individual Slayer's needs. Whereas the Hierophant is more a teacher, leader, guide, guru - very much a Giles sort of thing. Buffy only took Giles' words as advisement, not law, remember. The Emperor requires law & obedience. If Giles pulled that he'd not get any sort of cooperation from her or the Scooby group. The Watcher Council found that out when they released the vampire for her & he took her mom as hostage.

So for me I'd go with it this way rather than reversed.

truelighth

07-01-2005, 16:50

Hey all,

I am a real big Buffy and Angel fan myself and tried to go to the page to see the cards. But it won't load. Anyone else have those problems? I would really, really love to see the images.

HudsonGray

07-01-2005, 17:07

I'm not sure if this is the same deck (it's majors only) but all the pictures load on this one. http://www.geocities.com/lady_greenwood/buffy-tarot.html

Actually I dont think it is the deck by Alicamel, she/he only posted for a month back in 2002 and then stopped. The angelfire site was taken down and doesn't exist anymore.

Oh well, there are other Buffy decks out there, do a google.com search on Buffy Tarot and you'll find pictures.

truelighth

08-01-2005, 02:58

Thanks Hudsongray. I had found that one too myself, but it is always handy. I had hoped to see Alicalem's images and choices.

However, when I did a search, I did find another Buffy tarot site:

http://anne.elisa.free.fr/tarotexplication.html

I think the choices made here are interesting, if not all appropiate. But I especially like Faith as the Devil, since she was indeed seduced by the dark side. Spike as the Lover is also cool. I personally would have changed a few of the cards. I find Buffy as the Magician not really fitting. I always thought of her as Strength.

Ceit

12-01-2005, 15:51

The Fool -- I would say Buffy, because it's her journey and she does start the series inocent and free, her touches with the other cards makes her learn and adapt.

The Magician- I would use Ethan. He can play all the tricks but he doesn't have a soul.

The High Priestess-- I would Put Tara here. She is a magical creature that does magic for a reason.

The Empress- Joyce -- She is Buffy's attachment to Earth. She is the mother figure and is the one "good" thing in Buffy's life that she can hold on to outside her being a slayer.

The Emperor -- I would put Giles here but I see him more a spirtual Guide. But Buffy firmly places him as a Father figure. So -- In a lot of ways I would put The Mayor - I know he is evil and sick, but he was in a strange way a father figure for faith.

The hierophant. --Giles, he is Buffy's mentor and father figure.

The Lovers -- I would put Willow and Xander with Oz and Anya in the shadows.

The Chariot -- Spike at the reigns of a firey horse demons. His journey is that of Victory through Adversity.

Stregnth-- Harmony

The Hermit -- Oz- He I think embodies the hermit always looking inward to control the inner beast. He lives in the world but distance himself from all those around him.

Wheel of Fortune -- The Scooby gang

Justice-- Anyanka

The Hanged Man -- Spike as he embraces the Cross

Death -- The Master -- He always keeps coming back.

Temerance -- Cordy

The Devil -- Angelus with Spike and Dru in chains before him

The Tower -- I would have to say Buffy jumping of the tower in the gift.

The Star -- The end of Fool For Love when Buffy and Spike are sitting on the stairs -- buffy just heard about her mother going into the hospital and Spike chose to help her instead of kill her.

The Moon -Tara and Willow raising the Rose together

The Sun - ???

Judgement -- The last scene of Buffy in Chosen with what's left of the Scooby gang

The world -- Again it would be the Cast of Buffy..

I couldn't come up with anything for the sun.

closrapexa

13-01-2005, 02:06

For me the Devil would be The First Evil. All temptations and illusions, never taking corporeal form, always having some one else do its dirty work for it. Just a thought.

Ceit

13-01-2005, 02:15

For me the Devil would be The First Evil. All temptations and illusions, never taking corporeal form, always having some one else do its dirty work for it. Just a thought.

I was thinking of that but realized that the First Evil was all about it. It wanted full control of mankind. While the Devil plays upon it. Much like Angelus' control over Dru and Spike, they where his play toys shakled -- they are his creations. Once the first evil gets what it wants it discards them.

So, you could be right, but Angelus and his control over both Dru and Spike (especially Spike's obsession and Dru's torment)

bleuivy

19-01-2005, 20:57

Ceit

20-01-2005, 21:50

I would LOVE to get my hands on a BtVS/Angle deck. And now that both shows are finished *sob!*, the mythology is firmly in place. Now, the meaning the artist intended to put on each card wouldn't be changed by later episodes adding more to the mythology behind the symbolism.

I especially like the idea of the hanged man as spike on the cross, and oz as the hermit.

Ceit -- why would you put Harmony on the Strength card? Buffy or Cordelia strike me as more the strength type. I would be interested in hearing your reasoning.

As for the sun, how about Dawn? Or perhaps an image of Angel or Spike in sunlight?

Also, in your idea BtVS deck, would you include characters and mythology/symbolish from Angle's series, or keep it firmly in the realm of Sunnydale?

The reason why that I choose Harmony as strenght is her inner strength. She might not have had the smarts to achieve her goals but she did have them and went after them. She was determined and didn't let things stand in her way. Granted that she was painted as stupid evil, she still had the determination to go on.

Stregnth to me is more the ability to carry on in advesity.

I would do the "buffy-verse" including Angel in the tarot cards.

bleuivy

21-01-2005, 04:20

The reason why that I choose Harmony as strenght is her inner strength. She might not have had the smarts to achieve her goals but she did have them and went after them. She was determined and didn't let things stand in her way. Granted that she was painted as stupid evil, she still had the determination to go on.

Stregnth to me is more the ability to carry on in advesity.

Ah. Now I see, though your interpretation is one that didn't just jump out at me when I read the card description. I guess that's something I would have to get out of the LWB, which is pretty ironic because I usually hate reading them, LOL.

See? Now this thread is making me want a Buffy tarot deck. Just my luck they don't exist, huh? Maybe I'll just have to make my own...

VisionQuest

21-01-2005, 04:49

Wow, great thread...

I'm not a huge BTVS fan, but I am a HUGE Angel fan...lol

I have only recently started to see a few of the BTVS reruns, and of course whatever came up on episodes of Angel, so I really have very little knowledge of BTVS.

I would love to see an Angel deck. But for a BTVS/Angel deck, the few things I definately agree with are:

Giles as the Hierophant
Joyce as the Empress
Did someone mention Angelus for the Devil card?
And I guess I would have to go with Angel & Buffy for the lovers card.

Everything else I see Angel characters for.

Great thread though :)

gothicphoenixx

27-01-2005, 02:31

sounds like a good idea to me. lol, i'll have to tell my one friend to come and check it out because he's a HUGE Buffy fan. A couple of my other friends are so into it they've nicknamed our cirlce of friends around the characters. So, I think you'd have at least a couple decks sold just in who I know. You'd have even more if you get it approved through the producors. And, like someone said, they might help you get it off the ground.

I tried to check out the site but it gave me an error page

bleuivy

27-01-2005, 08:23

Giles as the Hierophant
Joyce as the Empress
Did someone mention Angelus for the Devil card?
And I guess I would have to go with Angel & Buffy for the lovers card.

Everything else I see Angel characters for.

VisionQuest: just saw your post. I LOVE Angel as well. (Cannot wait for the 5th season to come out on DVD.) Anyway, what Angel characters do you see for the different cards?

VisionQuest

27-01-2005, 09:06

I haven't really thought it out, but since I am an Angel fan and not very familiar with Buffy...my thoughts are going to go to Angel characters...

Also , I'm still learning the meanings for each card, and learning that different decks have different meanings for the same card sometimes...so...
perhaps...

Magician = Lorne = because of his creativity, intuitive abilities, and a general "magickal" persona.
Strength = Cordelia = I can't exactly explain why, it just seems to be the most fitting for Cordelia to me.
Temperance = Fred = Not Fred when they first met her, but later Fred lol.
Devil = Angelus
Hanged Man = Gunn
Hermit = Connor
I don't know what to do with Wesley...he seems like the Empress/Protector to me... but not in the typical sense ... maybe cause he strikes me as the "Mother Hen" of the group with his practicality and logic and all that.
Also, I don't know which Angel would be lol I thought of him for the Hanged Man, but ...I dunno...
Some of these are really difficult...lol
I will probably change my mind as I become more familiar with the cards :)

seneris

28-01-2005, 04:15

Hi there,

interesting to see all the many choices people have made. There are many possibilities for a Buffy/Angel deck. A few months ago I made one myself (just the majors) and I made some other choices for the cards. I'll post a list here.
Mind you that I'm still learning all the meanings of the cards so my interpretations could be different. I'm happy with my choices.

Well, I hope everybody's seen the last season of Buffy, I'm afraid there are lots of spoilers in my deck.

0 Fool: young Buffy Summers, before she became a slayer
1 Magician: the First Slayer
2 High Priestess: Drusilla
3 Empress: Joyce Summers
4 Emperor: Rupert Giles, the father-figure
5 Hierophant: Quinten Tarvers, Watcher’s Counsil
6 Lovers: Buffy/ Angel; Buffy/ Spike
7 Chariot: Spike (got his soul)
8 Strength: Angel (worries about his soul)
9 Hermit: Oz, who left to keep his wherewolf-being under control
10 Wheel: the stake
11 Justice: Cordelia (from hip and rich to member of the scoobies and having to work for her money)
12 Hanged Man: Xander (the only one without 'superpowers')
13 Death: Buffy and The Master/ Buffy sacrificing herself for Dawn
14 Temperance: Anya (balance between being a demon and being a human)
15 Devil: Faith (the other side of Buffy. At first she was everything Buffy wasn't.)
16 Tower: destruction of Sunnydale (season 7, last eppy)
17 Star: Tara
18 Moon: Willow
19 Sun: Dawn
20 Judgement: Buffy season 5, episode 1, brought back to life with a spell.
21 World: Buffy, end of season 7.

gothicphoenixx

11-02-2005, 23:54

That sounds like a good start:)
One circle of my friends has given everyones nicknames based on the show. It's cool we'd each have a card that fits the character, and to some degree the ones you picked reflect the people as well.

AmberWolf

15-02-2005, 00:55

Ooh I love the idea of a Buffy theme deck.

I wholeheartdedly agree with Joyce as the Empress, and Tara as Temperance.

For the Lovers, I can see Buffy/Angel. But Buffy / Spike feel wrong because of the nature of the relationship. Have such an unhealthy glow to it. A suggestion I didn't saw for the Lovers is Willow/Tara. They are the first to come to mind for me because I always found striking how peaceful, deep and balanced their relationship seem to be (point of view of someone who know everything happening all trough the end of season 7 but who SAW only up to end of season 5. )

Anyway, just a point of view I saw nobody mention so I thought I would drop my two cents. :)