View Full Version : Book T Minors: Leo
Kicking off with Fixed/Kerubic signs in the suit cards, we have the Fire suit of Wands. The related cards are the 5 of Wands (Saturn in the first decan of Leo), 6 of Wands (Jupiter the second decan of Leo) and 7 of Wands (Mars in last decan of Leo).
How do folks feel about these cards?
Here are some basic interpretations I've pasted from the SolarFire program.
LEO
Self-confident, generous, warm-hearted, powerful leader, dramatic. Can be overly proud, vain, extravagant, arrogant.
SATURN IN LEO
You take pride in your work, and have an ability to build personal authority. You tend to work for recognition and power.
JUPITER IN LEO
You are benevolent, generous and fun loving. You are on an enthusiastic search for creative expression. You may also have a love of children.
MARS IN LEO
You have a strong need to express your personal creativity. You may display dramatic and confident behaviour, and like to make an impact on your surroundings. You may also be arrogant.
And a couple of links about Leo
http://www.astrologywizard.com/leo.htm
http://www.soulhealing.com/leo.htm
Always Wondering
06-07-2008, 13:10
SATURN IN LEO
You take pride in your work, and have an ability to build personal authority. You tend to work for recognition and power.
I pulled five of wands this morning and this is the nicest thing I've heard about it all day. Ryder-Waite looks like all out war. Book T mentions a few nice things if well dignified. Though Crowley's Strife give me the impression of fixed fire and will, he has not much good to say.
Leo shows the element of Fire at its strongest and most balanced. Saturn tends to weigh it down and to embitter it.
Liber T 5 of Wands looks down-right powerful, but not negative.
I just don't get Saturn. With positive and negative qualities, why does it seem to bring out the negative?
AW, off the pain pills, heavy on Advil, and maybe a touch grumpy. :)
I just don't get Saturn. With positive and negative qualities, why does it seem to bring out the negative?
Yeah Saturn does seem to get a bit of a raw deal in the minors. I think its compensated for with the majors though, by giving him The World Card. As Teheuti pointed out in the Libra (http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=100762) thread even when he's exhalted Saturn gets a bad rap.
On the 5 of Wands, the Lord of Strife, we have Saturn in Leo where he is in his detriment, so you'd expect his nastier side to come out a bit. The Thoth card certainly makes its central wand look very Saturnine. Heavy, dark, grey, oppressive etc.. Maybe being a 5, and thus related to Mars who is much happier in Leo it saves the card a little..?
The 5 of Wands in the RWS is often discussed as being more playful and competitive combat, which would fit with Leo more so than Saturn. Its fun, and joyful and maybe a bit sexual. Kinda looks like a crowd of boys working off sexual tension by bashing each other with big old sticks :laugh: Though the faces on the older RWS's look very serious and Saturn like to me.
I love the Mythic Tarot's 5 of Wands. It has this enormous dragon, that is very Saturn-y acting as the obstacle that the other characters have to come up against to acheive victory and glory. I think it fits as a story of Saturn in Leo very well.
http://www.tarotgarden.com/database/images/m-decks/mythiccards.gif
Though Crowley's Strife give me the impression of fixed fire and will, he has not much good to say.
I believe he says that Strife is really about "striving" - that made all the difference for me with that card.
Always Wondering
10-07-2008, 09:19
I believe he says that Strife is really about "striving" - that made all the difference for me with that card.
Ah, this gives me sense of the Rider-Waite and the Liber T pictorials. I can see the empowerment of striving.
Thanks Teheuti
AW
The archaic meaning of Strife is earnest endeavor, striving, a strenuous effort. But all of these meanings imply resistance to movement - old heavy Saturn. If Leo wants to get anything done in the 5 of Wands he's going to have to fight for it and oppose the forces of inertia that block the way.
Always Wondering
11-07-2008, 00:48
The archaic meaning of Strife is earnest endeavor, striving, a strenuous effort. But all of these meanings imply resistance to movement - old heavy Saturn. If Leo wants to get anything done in the 5 of Wands he's going to have to fight for it and oppose the forces of inertia that block the way.
I have been reading older posts where you talk about the fours being stable/resistant and how it takes the fives to come along to shake things up for change. It's not just Saturn in Leo, but in all the suits. I guess change takes a lot of energy. So, it is indeed a well earned "Victory" when the influence of Jupiter enters Leo with expansion, growth, opportunity and change. Goodbye old heavy Saturn :P.
It's helped me to look ahead. Glad to see you back.
AW
It's not just Saturn in Leo, but in all the suits. I guess change takes a lot of energy.
You're right. It is in all the suits, but Leo is very much "in his element" in this card and acts like a natural booster.
I like Crowley's comment on this card where he says it derives it's benign and gentle influence from the feminine. On the surface that seems strange because the 5 of Wands appears to be very masculine, forceful, and agressive card. But there is a side to this card that is very like the force of natural life. How life is never still and hates to be trapped and confined. It always overcomes obstacles and struggles to survive, getting stronger in the process. Hence the saying, "life finds a way". There's also the harsh side of Mother nature too, survival of the fittest.
Glad to see you back.
Thanks. :D
Always Wondering
12-07-2008, 13:25
Okay, while we're waiting for others to chime in here. . .
This Adept stuff Crowley writes about. The Chief Adept shows authority without which this card would be completely disastrous and the Third Adept which are daughters. I guess I don't understand the A^A^ system enough for this to make any sense to me.
How does a Chief Adept save this card and who the heck are the daughters?
AW
The wands are those carried by the three initiating adepts during the Golden Dawn Adeptus Minor ritual.
Chief Adept:
Associate Adeptus Minor, what is the Wand which thou bearest?
3rd Adept:
A simple Wand having the colors of the twelve Signs of the Zodiac and surmounted by the Lotus Flower of Isis. It symbolizes the development of Creation.
Chief Adept:
Mighty Adeptus Major, thy Wand and its meaning?
2nd Adept:
A Wand terminating in the symbol of the Binary and surmounted by the Tau Cross of Life, or the Head of the Phoenix, sacred to Osiris. The seven colors between Light and Darkness are attributed to the Planets. It symbolizes rebirth and resurrection from death.
Chief Adept:
My Wand is surmounted by the Winged Globe, around which the twin serpents of Egypt twine. It symbolizes the equilibriated Force of the Spirit and the Four Elements beneath the everlasting Wings of the Holy One.
The Chief adepts wand is symbolic of power and authority derived from a higer source. I think the inclusion of that wand on this card is to show that the force and fire represented by this card is not merely blind and senseless destructive energy. It's actually in service to a higher power. (Although this wand bears the sigil of To Mega Therion. Indicating the the "higher power" is the Will ?)
The comment about the Daughters is to indicate that Binah and the 3 of Wands is directly above this card (and Geburah) on the Tree of Life. It is the source of what Crowley describes as, "the mitigating influence of the Mother". This is also represented by Atu XI Lust, where the goddess Babalon (Binah - Saturn) rides upon the Beast (Leo).
Always Wondering
13-07-2008, 02:20
The wands are those carried by the three initiating adepts during the Golden Dawn Adeptus Minor ritual.
Oops. More G.D.- A^A^ confusion on my part.
I think the inclusion of that wand on this card is to show that the force and fire represented by this card is not merely blind and senseless destructive energy. It's actually in service to a higher power.
Okay, I am starting to feel less victimized by old heavy Saturn.
(Although this wand bears the sigil of To Mega Therion. Indicating the the "higher power" is the Will ?).
Sounds like more 0=2 stuff to me. :)
The comment about the Daughters is to indicate that Binah and the 3 of Wands is directly above this card (and Geburah) on the Tree of Life. It is the source of what Crowley describes as, "the mitigating influence of the Mother". This is also represented by Atu XI Lust, where the goddess Babalon (Binah - Saturn) rides upon the Beast (Leo).
Yeah, well, I'm working on Qabalah. :confused:
The more I learn about these "small cards" the more I wonder why they are called such.
AW
I was thinking this morning about a simple way to differentiate these three cards, based on the planets. It struck me that the 5 of Wands (Saturn) and the 7 of Wands (Mars) both have an aspect of conflict and effort required. You can see it in the RWS images, both involve a form of fighting against a crowd and struggle.
The 6 of Wands (Jupiter) by contrast is an easy card. The leader (Jupiter) can just sit back and let everyone rally around and support him. No real work is required, the horse is even doing the walking for him.
Fits in nicely with the Tree of Life diagram. Saturn/Binah and Mars/Geburah are both on the Column of Severity and so things are right to be difficult and a lot of work for the 5 and the 7. Jupiter/Chokmah by contrast is on the Pillar of Mercy, and so it makes sense that the guy in the 6 of Wands would get an easy ride. Everything is handed to him generously. He doesn't have to fight for it like the 5 & 7 do.
http://www.soulhealing.com/jupiter.htm