Rubber Stamped Tarot cards?

[Ophiel]

Ten years ago I was very active in 'mail art.' My experience of exchanging [mostly] handmade mail art was extremely enriching, as I was exchanging up to 75 pieces of mail a week. IMHO, I am artistic, but am too lazy to develop the skills I'd need to be a graphic artist. Rubber stamp collages suited me nicely. There are some techniques using rubber stamps that can be used to create some actually complicated pictures. One, called 'masking,' was stamping an image onto a piece of post-um note, cutting it out, and then positioning the 'mask' over the stamped image so that any other stamp stamped over it, would appear as if it was behind it. 3D imagery is quite impressive using stamps.

I still have a HUGE collection of stamps, probably close to 2,000 stamps but had to quit when I started developing carpal tunnel problems from the hours I spent stamping. I haven't stamped in years, but certainly miss it!

Rubber stamps seem a natural for creating Tarot and I'm curious if anybody actually created a deck, at least the majors, using only rubber stamps, or perhaps rubber stamps and cut out images? I noticed that HudsonGray posted something about rubber stamps earlier this year Mari_Hoshizaki, so there is at least some rubber stamp awareness in this group.

I love to hear about, but more to the point, SEE, a deck created with rubber stamps.

[rota]

I'm with you: I would love to see (and own) a Tarot deck made with rubber stamps. The biggest challenge would be finding or making stamp libraries would add up to individual card images. How would you do that? The finished pieces would probably have to be scanned so they could be printed in multiples.
You come across as having the knowledge and talent to do it. Heaven knows I've seen some stamped pieces that were wonderful, and stamped pieces that were *awful*.

[Ophiel]

I am no longer able to rubber stamp. However, I still enjoy rubber stamps. There is a rubber stamp magazine, Rubberstampmadness, that might be of some help. I wrote (freelance) for them for a short while.

Here something I found online:

http://www.rubberstampsclub.com/winners-december01.html

Here are some instructions for doing a deck in rubber:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/guides/guide-display/-/2WIRW6HQH5ZT/ref=cm_bg_lm/104-0243024-0143152/aeclectic/

A group called YahooTarotCreation had some messages about making a deck with rubber stamps!

And some tips on making tarot card collages:
http://www.ixpres.com/transformational/makedec.htm

And here's a link to the Inner Vision Tarot, 26 diff artists, with definite collage techniques, and when I searched with the word "Rubber Stamp," this was a hit. So I'm thinking at least one of the cards was made with stamps. You can see a few cards at (click on Sample Cards):
http://www.ixpres.com/transformational/makedec.htm

And here is a link to six full images (WRS) available as rubber stamps:
http://www.ixpres.com/transformational/makedec.htm

Actually, after I started searching for: tarot +"rubber stamp" I found quite a few hits. Perhaps if anyone else finds some interesting links, they will post here.

[kayne]

Wow - interesting idea. There is a rubber stamp shop just down the road from me and I found out how much it would cost to have a rubber stamp made up from my own tarot designs. Kinda' neat idea but it would have worked out to be *very* expensive... (about the cost of a Llewellyn deck per two card stamps. :P) So I gave up on that idea. The idea is that I would print my own decks and they would have that real indidual touch. :) Maybe one day...

[HudsonGray]

Kayne, there's a MUCH easier & cheaper way to get your own stamps made up! Check around your town for a store that sells rubber stamps. Ask them if there's a stamping group that meets, and where/when do they have their next meeting. Go to it & ask if anyone there has their own small rubber stamp company (our old group had 2 people who were doing it). Then just ask them if they could add in your design next time they ran off a batch, or (better yet especially if you're an artist) ask if they need artists to draw for them.

The two people in our group couldn't draw worth a damn so they 'bought' art from those who could do black & white line drawings. You get about $4 per drawing AND a rubber stamp of each one they bought. Nice deal! If you sell to the larger companies, prices vary from $4 to $15, depending on complexity put into the art.

Those places that say they can do it for you charge mega bucks -- I looked into them a few years back & I bet they jacked prices up higher since then.

The magazine Rubber STamp Madness has a lot of stamp companies listed, I think something like 20% are one person companies working out of their kitchen. The two who I sold some art to are Cow Town Stamps (she's online, lives in New Holstien, WI - hence the name) and she's looking for artwork. The other was Stamp Off The Old Block I think, not sure if he's got a web site though, his name is Jeff, lives in Milwaukee, WI. He likes more realistic art, but the lady at Cow Town likes humor & a wide range of styles. The way to go about seeing if they're interested is to email a design or send it by mail. If they want to buy it they send you the money (you won't make big bucks with it, but it is a nice side income if you do up 10 or 12 sketches they like).

[kayne]

Wow - thanks for the info HudsonGray. Amazing that one group will charge mega bucks and another will pay *you* for your art... :P Will have to check it out... :)

[Kyrielle]

I own the Artist's Inner Vision Tarot, and I gather that many of the cards are made using rubber stamps. Each of the collaborating artists has a short bio in the back of the book, and most of them include a reference to the artist's rubber stamp art.

I had thought up to the point I got this deck that rubber stamping was a way to cheat if you couldn't draw "for real." But the quality of the art and composition on these cards is great. It's sometimes hard to tell if stamps have been used in the design or if the whole thing is hand-drawn.

-- Kyrielle

[Cerulean]

I believe many people who do tarot collaging have also looked into things such as mail art, rubber stamps, quilting, role-playing games, storytelling, history, etc.
Ophiel and others who I admire have spoken of B.O.T.A related teaching, so I ordered the color-your-own set...yes, I'd love to see B.O.T.A majors from carved rubber stamps and Marseilles stamps. I also understand about wrist injuries, as my paid work requires me to be careful about my two-inch wide wrists. I had to give up Japanese woodcarving hobbies and intensive graphic design studies while recovering from lingering pain. (It got so bad that carrying a laser printer cartridge box with my two arms hurt horribly afterward.)
My gentle myth is that modern tarotists seem to be creative minds in search of expression. I think that they first relate to first to visual keys in tarot, then they search their minds for a parallel physical memory key. Then how they relate it by talking, writing, art or sensory expression is related to their expressive, unique wiring.
Perhaps in tarot we all sense a human need for storytelling. It could be in the West, we believe tarot images as symbols does give structure and personification to our experience. The learned process of taking in images, doing a parallel allegory or metaphor to our own experiences and then wanting to express or relate such work with others seems to have a common trait to many artists and writers and other creative types.
By the way, a great example of Asian printmaking and tarot is the Ukiyoe Tarot by U.S. Games, Inc. It really drew me into tarot and my grandparent's culture...hope this is related % ).

[Insomnia Turtle]

I used to have a stamp craze myself, only I would make the actual stamp. It actually pretty cheap to make them if you know where to go, but it is VERY time consuming. Look around local arts and craft stores and see if you can find just the rubber. Two years ago I could get a 81/2x11 sheet of that delightful orange rubber for around 5 bucks, which could sound a bit expensive to some people, but after you cut it into 4 peices (even more if you make smaller stamps) you are only paying $1.25 per stamp. You can get cheap carving tools as well, in sets even, for around 6-10 bucks if you look around carefully. If you take good care of them they work just as well as the expensive kind (learned this the hard way :)). Note that this method can get very expensive if you are trying to do stamps in a woodblock print style, but for individual stamps, compared to most prices, it's not so bad.

Another thing I would like to mention is the dangers of selling your design to a stamp company. I am not saying that all stamp companies do this, but make sure you get some form of contract and READ IT THOUROUGHLY (sp?)!!! Remember, when they pay for your design, unless you sign a contract that says otherwise, they own it (thus the importance of contracts in the art world). Sure, they might give you a free stamp and some cash in return, but they also usually attatch a usage rule as well, and they don't always tell you it's in effect either.

The usage rule goes like this:
You are only allowed to use and sell anything which includes the stamps design a certian number of times (usually around 40 or 50 times). Then you are not allowed to use it for selling purposes anymore unless you buy another of the same stamp or pay the company directly.

I know that most of you are either laughing "There's no way this is true" or saying to yourself "well, I'm not planning to use my designs on anything I would sell anyway". First, I would like to say that I am speaking from experience here. I was almost sued because I didn't know this rule. I know people who have been sued by multiple stamp companies because they were not told the rule either. And all they were trying to do was use their own stamp design. For those of you thinking that you would never sell anything with your stamp design on it, if you are going to make one stamp I could see that being true. Now try making 50, maybe even a hundred stamps. Maybe people are asking if you would ever consider selling them cards with your stamp on it. See what I mean? Everyone wants fair compensation when it comes to their craft. It is only fair.

Thus, I come back to my original point. Always ask for a contract to be written, and be sure to tell the maker what you want out of it, like rights to your own stamp. And always read every line of the contract! I know that this is only the opinion of a person, me, who has been screwed over countless times when dealing with art publishers (and by that mean any orginization who offers to reproduce your work in any form, including stamps), but please at least think about what I have to say.

I would also like to mention again that, yes, I know there are many companies that don't do this, but there are more that do.

Well, I've rambled enough. I hope someone out there benifits from this.

[HudsonGray]

I've found that most rubber stamp companies only buy the 'rubber stamp rights', which means the DESIGN is yours, to put on a greeting card, t-shirt, mug, calendar, anything else EXCEPT another rubber stamp (ie: you can't turn around & sell it to a different rubber stamp company or make rubber stamps of it yourself).

Most companies are pretty straightforward about it, all you need to do is ask what rights they're buying. Usually it's for immediate use as a rubber stamp only, for them to make it in this country (international sales are pretty rare for rubber stamps).

If they retire the design, then after about a year the rubber stamp rights revert back to you (check with the company, this varies, their 'pull time' can be either immediate or a 1 year wait or such). At that point you can turn around & resell the design to another rubber stamp company.

There's also a growing number of 'angel' companies, which allow you to rubber stamp greeting cards & sell the cards with the rubber stamp designs on them without violating any copyright. It didn't used to be that way--if you bought a rubber stamp, you couldn't sell the item you stamped with it (it's complex). Or xerox the card you made & sell multiples of those, because the origional copyright was held by the artist & company. All rubber stamps were for personal enjoyment, not to make money off.

However, a lot of that's relaxing & the angel companies even put it right on their catalogs that you can sell anything you stamp with their designs, you just can't make copies of the rubber stamp itself (ie: more rubber stamps) & sell those.

[Insomnia Turtle]

HudsonGray - My point was to make sure what you are getting into, and you seem to agree with me on that point.

I am not sure if your comments on selling the same design to other companies, or your comment on "angel" companies was directed toward my response to this topic or not, but I feel I should probably make myself a little more clear as I do tend to be rambling and incoherant alot.

First I never mentioned selling the same design to multiple companies, I think that would go under "common sense".. If you do that, not only are you a con, but your an idiot too.

As for your "angel" companies, yes, there are some companies that do that. But there are many companies that only allow a certain # of uses as well, and people have to be careful about those types. This is where a stamp company tried to screw me over. I had a simple design, the company approached me and asked if they could make stamps with it. I agreed as long as they gave me the rights to the design and free use of the stamp once they created it, and I stated several times that I would be using it on things I would sell (meaning I "stamp" things such as cards and sell the card, not make and sell stamps of the same design). They new exactly what I wanted to do and agreed to my terms. I signed a contract (note that I did read it, just not carefully enough) and the deal was done. They acted really friendly and asked about how my selling was going and I was completly open with them not knowing that they were really keeping tabs on me.

Then I get a phone call saying if I didn't pay a rather large sum of money for breech of contract, I would be taken to court.

It was only then I got out my copy of the original contract and noted that the way they worded their contract could be taken in more than one way (very sneaky). Basically I thought it had said that I may use the stamp as many times as I wished. What it really ment was, that I would be allowed to use the stamp (note I say stamp and not design) a certain number of times (to be decided by the company) before I had to stop using the stamp or pay them to use it.

Luckily, I did find a rather large loophole and was able to evade being sued and I have created my own stamps ever since. I know other people who were not so lucky (with the same company) went out to find new stamp companies, and were screwed again, sometimes even having their designs stolen from them (I should note, though, that the individuals I know that didn't do contracts were much worse off).

So, to make a long story longer, even if you think a stamp company is an "angel" company, make sure you look really close at what thier true intentions are, as you should with any company. If you can't take it from me, take it from someone else. I'm sure you can find others saying the same thing over the net.

I would like to end this by saying I am not saying that all stamp companies are evil. Some just practice bad buisness ethics and I just want everyone to be careful. Sometimes you get lucky and the company really is an honest company, sometimes they are sneaky bastards out to make more money. S*** happens, but if you know it's lying on the sidewalk you can step around it.

[HudsonGray]

Ahh, I think I know which company you're talking about, I talked to one of their representatives at a stamp convention about what kind of art were they interested in & how they go about their contacts and couldn't believe what they wanted from their artists (exclusivity was the least of it).

An Angel company will put it all right up front--they say flat out that once they sell you the stamp they don't care what you do with it so long as you're not making copies of the rubber stamp itself & selling those. You're free to profit from the image in any other way.

Rubber Stamp Madness magazine has been running more & more ads & notations on companies that are 'angels' so I know the field is softening up quite a bit. Maybe not the big boys, but 80% of what's out there are small companies of under 8 people.

Oh, no I meant that once the stamp image was pulled from a catalog & not used anymore by that company, the artist would be free to sell it to another company. NOT while the first company still has it in their inventory! (That's just plain dumb).

I've sold to rubber stamp companies before, had no trouble with them, but didn't sell to the biggies. Only a few bad apples need to be out there for that kind of hassle to take hold though. I can understand where you're coming from (I've also had a blatant theft of one of my copyrighted doll designs, which took $3,000 and a copyright lawyer to clear up). It's not all smooth sailing.

Yes, make sure of what you're getting into. That's important.

[Insomnia Turtle]

HudsonGray - I apoligize for being a little off topic here, but you design stuffed animals? That sounds like fun. Have anything online I could take a peek at? (sorry for taking a peek at your profile :) reminds me that I still have to fill mine out)

Back on topic, the Rubber Stamp Madness Magazine you were talking about, is it an actual magazine or a catalog with the name of magazine (ok, that sounds stupid...)? I tried looking in a few bookstores a while ago to look for it, but had no luck (I should probably just check on the net, huh?).

As for the company you think could be the one I had problems with, probably not. That company, called something like "Square Impressions" I think, was much more sneaky when it came to ripping artists off. In fact, I think they make most of their money that way, which is really sad. I don't know if they still exsist anymore though.

I apoligize for reading your bit about the selling of stamps. After going 53 hours without sleep, anyone is likely to start reading wrong :).

Sorry to hear about your run in with a design thief. I hate when people think that they can get away with it. It doesn't matter what form of art it is, whether it's a stamp, a stuffed animal, a picture, or whatever else you can think of, artists always seem to be the target of idea thieves... of course, most of the world does view art as a hobby and not a valid job... so sad...

[HudsonGray]

(Off Topic for a tad, sorry folks) The Rubber Stamp Madness magazine has been around for about 8 years now I think. http://www.rsmadness.com/ Barnes & Noble carry it & some craft stores, they used to be really large format & shrunk the magazine down to fit regular news stands to be carried in more stores--but look around for it. It comes out 6 times a year and is pretty thick, about 168 pages or so. MUCH nicer than STampers Sampler, but I do like the Somerset Studio's magazine too, for creative arts & ideas.

Yep, I do stuffies. For a living now. I sell medieval/fantasy/sf type creatures at Pennsic War (SCA related) as well as my animal historical paper dolls, which is how I got off into doing the Ferret Tarot (in progress). I do the stuffed Bun Bun & Kiki dolls for an online comic strip's store too, and baby cthulhu's for the Outsider catalog & some catnip toys for Cat Faeries out in CA. My web site is still in the works, but I've got a couple of ferrets up at picturetrail under the FalconsMew album (Steve's New Vision tarot has about 18 pictures shown in the other album there). Used to do SF conventions till the bottom dropped out of the market in the Midwest here. My folks think of it as a 'real' job now.

No, Square Impressions wasn't the company I talked to about selling some designs. It was a different one (not going to slander them, so won't list it here on the board). And yes, the copyright thief was brazen & I was lucky to get any kind of money out of him at the end even if the lawyer fees took 99.5% of it--others who'd been ripped off by him contacted me about a class action suit against him, but since I'd gotten recompense, I couldn't go in with them. Stupid guy, he's got a store in CA. Owes over $30,000 to printers there for games they did up for him. BAD news all around. There are always people ready to rip off others.

[Insomnia Turtle]

First
HudsonGray - Thank you for information on the magazine. I will ask Barnes and Noble again. Also, I will be on the lookout for your site when it comes up.

Second
I would like to apoligize for all who thought my mentioning the name of a company, which, after actually looking around for it again I did get the name wrong (sorry for that) and it no longer exsists anymore, as me blatently slandering the company (which in, fact, is what I did, even though I didn't realize it as such at the time). It was very unprofessional of me to do so, despite the fact of what they did to me and many other people. I will be sure to try and think ahead before I post from now on (in fact, I probably will never mention another company name again whether they are a good comapny or bad. Makes things less complicated :)). Once again I apoligize and promise to try and keep my foot out of my mouth from now on.

Added seconds after I posted: Ha ha! Just had to mention how funny it is that I promise not to mention any companies name again and in the first paragraph there one is! Just goes to show how intelligent I really am. I will leave it there, however, so that others may laugh at my mistake. (promptly puts her foot in her mouth again)

[HudsonGray]

Oh, I didn't think you were slandering! You have a legit complaint, which is fact, not fiction. (and as nobody still knows who it is, you're off the hook either way!) A legit complaint is never slander. It can be bad PR, but probably wouldn't go beyond that.

[JosephMartin]

You have no idea how important I believe it is to create a card to represent yourself.

In the Quest Tarot I've included a special "blank" card just for that purpose. This card is there for you to Rubber Stamp, paint, use stickers, draw, etc. You can even use this card to create a "new" addition to the classic Tarot.

You can see the blank card at:

www.questtarot.com

.....I'm hoping that as people use the deck that they will send me pictures of their creations that I can post at the website. The deck has only been out for a week so I'm sure it will take a little time to create those special custom cards.

I believe that the Tarot is a "process" and that as we grow, learn and change the Tarot will do the same. I've included some pretty wild ideas in my deck that I'm sure will create a bit of a stir but I trust that this will be a unique addition to the ideas of Tarot. In any event, Create, Create, Create.... we will all be the better for it.

yours in the cards,
Joseph

[Major Tom]

Originally posted by JosephMartin
You have no idea how important I believe it is to create a card to represent yourself.

I believe that the Tarot is a "process" and that as we grow, learn and change the Tarot will do the same. Create, Create, Create.... we will all be the better for it.


Welcome to the community Joseph. :)

I think it's great that you've found us and are willing to share your experiences with creating and publishing a tarot deck.

There are many here who share your views.

[HudsonGray]

Here's a list of Angel companies--rubber stamp companies that don't care what you use their stamps for once you buy them so long as you're not making more rubber stamps out of them & selling them.

It's LONG--gives you a wide range of 'safe' art to use for tarot cards!

http://www.littlebit.com/angelList/angellistcomplete.htm