View Full Version : study group application ~ aquarius

isthmus nekoi
21-01-2003, 08:34
Alright, we're going to be talking about Aquarius, Uranus and 11th, and how these three play out in our natal charts. Since Saturn is Aquarius' traditional ruler, if you have anything Aquarian to add about old Chronos, go right on ahead. For the most recent news etc about the group, pls go here: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?threadid=8487

isthmus nekoi
21-01-2003, 08:46
I'm Aqu ASC, conj Mars in 1st. Venus conj Neptune in 11th/Sag. Scrop Uranus conj MC. I'm breaking up my post so it's not so intimidating ^_^

Aqu ASC makes me easily bored. w/Mars conj, my search for intellectual stimulation is very aggressive and highly active. I've read Mars conj ASC makes a person active physically, and Aries like. I have Arien traits, but they're usually played out in the realm of intellect. Sports and gyms tend to bore me, it's all about Aquarian communication and theory for me. More about how Mars affects my communication style in April when we do Aries!

Aqu ASC also makes me form unusual theories and have an interest in marginalized grps. However, while I hold socialist values and criticize capitalism, I don't support Socialist movements. I don't see that they offer feasible alternatives to capitalism (heh heh, my Cap sun at work there eh).

I've never been viewed as a rebel or eccentric but perhaps in the past, I could be labelled as such, although the term would have to be applied very loosly. When I was younger though, I was very defiant and at that time, social conformity was my greatest moral transgression :P I still have *serious* probs w/authority if the authority is being abused, or if it's inadequate.

Aqu is also a science oriented sign. This might explain why all my closer friends are scientists/engineers despite having artsy Venus/Neptune in 11th. It was very difficult for me to give up science in terms of my formal education.

isthmus nekoi
21-01-2003, 08:58
Uranus & Mars in sextile (and therefore, Uran sextile ASC/Mars sextile MC) and mutual reception has given me a *deep affinity* for technology, esp digital tech. I love all computers and DV cameras.

Uranus is a singleton (water/Scorpio) and ruler of my ASC, so its energy is pretty strong in my chart. Mars is also a singleton, being the only planet below the ASC/DC axis. This coupled w/strong Scorpian chart energy, make themes of destruction, revolution (not necessarily in the political sense), and personal/social change voluntarily major parts of my life.

w/Venus and Neptune in 11th, I like to get involved w/groups, but w/sun in 12th, am at my core, an introvert and prefer solitude. I do however, support local art communities. I want to work in film which is a total *creative group effort*. I am also supportive of the development internet communities b/c of my penchant for mainstream alternatives.

11th Venus/Neptune + Aqu ASC might point to lots of friends, but I don't care to keep in touch w/those I consider aquaintances; I happy w/just a few friends. I don't have a personal 'circle', my friends have nothing in common and don't really know each other. In fact, the friends I choose can have very different interests, belief systems and lifestyles from me as well!

Venus/Nept conj also points to being sensitive or idealistic etc. But w/my low water and other chart factors, I am very unsentimental, and while I empathize very readily (esp w/marginalized/'amoral' persons), I rarely sympathize. I'm not nuturing in any conventional sense. Earth sun makes me more pragmatic than dreamy. I do however have a very rich and extravagant imagination and dream life. They both quintile my Jupiter/Saturn conj which might point to the creative slant of my inner world. Venus/Neptune might also soften down the extremely aggressive and independent energy in my chart, at least initially. I'm *very* easy to get along w/until you get to know me better!

p.s. If anyone has more to say about the whole Mars-Uran ASC-MC Aqu-Scorp connection, I'd love to hear it!
p.p.s. I think my Venus/Neptune placement gives a good example of why interpreting planets in isolation can lead you astray! Always try to consider the whole chart ^_^

21-01-2003, 19:14
Aquarius Ė all sorts of romantic, idealistic associations for some reason but this is probably to do with youthful memories of Summer and the late 60ís early 70ís when some of the big social movements had begun. In the post 60ís glow we all thought the world would change (and it did, indeed). The Womenís movement flowered; so did Gay Lib. Australia had the most radical social democratic government it is ever likely to have. Itís Time! We all shouted as we moved towards the future. We were fortunate people.

Aquarius cusps my 2nd House, where I have no planets at all. If we take Saturn to be the ruler of Aquarius, this period is a very critical time for me because Saturn is aspecting its natal position.

Saturn Rx is in my natal 8th House, along with Pluto Rx. The last time this aspect happened was 1973, a very significant time in my life. Apart from all the political excitement of the times, I came out, developed a couple of serious illnesses and geographically relocated to Australiaís equivalent of the American deep south. In many ways I had a wonderful and eventful time. Those of us who were together wonder now how we managed to survive LOL.

Well the aspect is about to happen again, and Iíve felt the build up to it. It was only last night that I was able to identify the event via my new astrology software program. The predicted effects donít really matter but they will result in some kind of major psychic change, not an eccentric risky journey, if I manage it all positively. Things might be stripped away but there isnít much anxiety about this. I am in the year of the Hermit, after all!

Natal Saturn Rx and Pluto Rx in the 8th House make me look internally for answers (Hermit)and the 2nd House is the House of self Ė mentally and materially Ė so there is potential for some major impact here. The 8th House is associated with society and groups within it but I'll be letting that go for a while.

What you say about looking at the whole chart is spot on, Isthmus and Minderwiz. Aquarius is also about independence and the non-traditional, and that theme is apparent throughout the whole chart and my life. A lot more could be said but I think this impending aspect is the most important theme for me right now.

Iíll close this part of the post with some reflection and understanding . Iíve been studying astrology for just a few short months but Iíve been able to see most of the past in the chart and it has been illuminating. I used to wonder a little about everything being written in the stars and how it reconciled with free will and choice. I don't now. The chart simply tells us where the energies and opportunities lie.

Now my Saturn returns again to aspect the natal position but I have much more insight and power and go into this karmic opportunity with much curiosity.

So, this is the scene with Saturn as the traditional Ruler of Aquarius. I might do another post later about the perspective with the contemporary Ruler, Uranus, who is located in my 6th House in opposition to natal Sun in Sagittarius.

Astrology gives us all a chance to understand our lives as mythic journeys, doesnít it? We can travel with the Gods for a short time.

More later...


21-01-2003, 20:21
Did you know that Saturn is the son of Uranus and Gaia?


21-01-2003, 23:15
I have Moon in Aquarius conjunct my Descendant (sixth house side) and Opposed to Pluto, Mars, and Saturn in Leo. These are quite difficult oppositions - Moon/Mars tends to be fiercely protective and sensitive to any discord around. Moon/Saturn is an indicator of limited feelings, or a fear of expressing feelings or defensive feelings and is often linked to situations of relatively solitary childhood. Moon/Pluto is buried feelings and intense emotions. All things that it takes well into adulthood to come to a modus vivendi with. However all of these are indicators of powerful feelings, even if they are not expressed openly.

The Moon is not particularly well placed in Aquarius and only the last ten degrees give some essential dignity but then only by face - the Moon rules the last decanate. Luckily my Moon falls into this. Even so people with Aquarius Moons are rather suspicious of their feelings, emotions and instinctive reaction and indeed any display of feeling or emotion at all. It's just not something they're comfortable with unless their are plenty of Water placements elsewhere.

My natal Moon is also trine to Uranus which is in the eleventh House and Uranus also trines my Sun in the third however these trines are not close enough to set up a grand trine. The Moon/Uranus contact tends to indicate emotional independance - which it does with me, and it can indicate sudden mood changes, which I don't suffer (Libra Sun and many planets in fixed signs)

I don't think Aquarius is a particularly sociable sign or Uranus a sociable planet at a personal level - Aquarians like the idea of humanitarianism and may well believe in the importance of groups and associations to society but they're far to independant to feel that they particularly need to have a lot of friends or to participate with a lot of others in group activities. I think Isthmus' description of her friendships is a good indicator of an Aquarain approach - friendships are often more bilateral than group and tend to reflect the individual (and possibly unusual) intrests of the Aquarian.

As well as friends and societies the eleventh also rules hopes, wishes, goals, objectives and desires. It also rules counselors and counsel - Aquarians are naturally good at giving detached advice and this is reflected in the house rulership. The eleventh also rules legislatures, city councils and boards of directors.

22-01-2003, 16:31
Thanks Isthmus and Minderwiz,

It is very interesting to read your analyses.

I think I need some assistance, if you're available.

I became very excited and interested in Saturn last night because it seemed so significant. I know from my reading today that I am not old enough to have a second Saturn return (three years away from it) so I went to the Janus report which said "dynamic aspect" and identified it as a "semisquare" which is defined in my reading today as "motivating, stressing". I had done a composite aspects report from Janus initially.

The Janus interpretations seem to attach significant weight to this aspect and it feels right but other astrology sites don't give the same weight to it. They wait for a bit later in the cycle for their heavy duty stuff.

For example Astrodienst identify the Saturn conjunct Uranus (26/3 to 21/4) as being fairly heavy duty and Saturn opposite Sun 21 April 11 May as being extra heavy duty.

I'm glad this is a learning group and that and I'm not responsible for predicting the weather, the stock market or much else because it could be a bit funny. I'm very curious though and would like to get it right.

It is obvious that Saturn is really important to me this year and I can see how with Saturn's relatively slow orbit, its effects and aspects could be felt for years. I imagine the same issues will apply to everyone eventually. The 29 year cycle stuff is fascinating and rings so true.

Both Saturn and Pluto are retrograde in my natal chart, which people seem to regard as quite negative. I imagine that the influence of Saturn would be dependent on the placement of everything else in the chart too but this does seem a bit unusual, possibly because I am so new to it. Are there times in your charts/lives when a whole bunch of things seem clustered together in a heavy duty way? You've got a few interesting things happening, I notice Minderwiz.

I hope my actual questions are clear. It's about the relative value of aspects and the overall approach to chart synthesis, I think.

Many thanks,


22-01-2003, 23:00

Transiting Saturn is actually applying to a sextile to your natal Saturn at this moment - indeed it is only 30 minutes off partile. Saturn will be of considerable importance to you over the time these planets are in aspect (and this has already being going on some time)

Rather than give you an interpretation now, I'll let you have a look at the aspect and see what you think. Then if you need a second opinion or a little help, I'm sure Isthmus and I could contribute. But its better if you have a go yourelf first - your coming on a lot and its worth taking the challenge.

23-01-2003, 04:57
I'd like to try this but let me make sure the information is right. This is just for Capricorn and Aquarius - Jan - Feb.

I did a transitions report from Janus with a 5 degree orb and was advised that in January - February, the following Saturn aspects would occur. I'll just mention the days Janus indicates the effect will be strongest although the aspect sometims seems to extend for weeks.

1 Jan: Sat square Ascendant
31 Jan: Sat sesqui quadrate North Node & Pluto Rx
31 Jan: Sat semi-square natal Saturn & Pluto Rx
31 Jan: Sat & Pluto Rx trine Venus
20 Feb: Sat quincunx Moon

There are a few other significant aspects predicted during this time as well, particularly with Uranus in relation to other planets that would affect an overall interpretation but I just want to make sure I get the basic Saturn ones right first.

Thanks Minderwiz. If you could confirm or comment on the above information I'd appreciate it and I'd love to have a go at the interpretation myself.


23-01-2003, 06:50
Well, these don't seem to be transits to your chart at all, unless my version of your chart in complete rubbish. I've got your Saturn at 22 degrees 28 minutes of Leo, (which actually is only a degree of mine, though I was born whilst Saturn was still Direct). Currently Saturn stands at 22 degrees 57 minutes of Gemini and is also retrograde - so it is applying to your Saturn by Sextile.

None of the other aspects are reflections of possible transits between the planets and your chart so I'm not sure what you did but you haven't got Saturn transits for the January/February period.

As a rule of thumb Saturn takes just under 30 years to do its complete cycle that's just over 12 degres per year or one degree per month. There's no way that Saturn can move from squaring your Ascendant (which is Capricorn so Saturn either has to be in Libra or Aries to square it) and then move to a semi-square (45 degree movement) in 31 days.

So I'm at a loss to understand the figures you've given unless you asked for something else than you thought you'd asked for.

However it terms of transits, Saturn in Gemini sextiles your natal Saturn in Leo and its a very close Saturn so this is an important period - probably for the next three months or so - possibly longer.

isthmus nekoi
23-01-2003, 07:52
I've been noticing a drop in ppl posting - if this group is moving too fast again, please speak out! I think we can all empathize when astrological language quickly becomes too dense or cumbersome. Don't be afraid to ask for translations into normal English ^_^ Also, pls don't feel pressured to post long winded essays like me!!
Minderwiz, that's a good point about Aquarius not being social on a personal level. Uranus (and Saturn!) isn't exactly the easiest planet to get along with! The interesting thing about Aquarius is it stresses individuality w/Uranus' pull towards the unorthodox, and yet, Aquarius is also a sign that stresses brotherhood and equality. Maybe this is why Aquarians can be hard to pin down.

Moongold, I've read little about the lesser aspects, but I agree that they can have an important impact, esp since most astrologers say they require tighter orbs. As for retrogrades, there seems to be a fair bit of negativity attached to them, but I've also read this to mean a time of reflection, reevalutation, basically anything w/a 're' prefix :P

Since 2/3rds of my chart is empty (unless you count the asteroids), I tend to go through a tight string of conjunctions every now and then. I can't say that I notice the effects of the transiting personal planets much, but then again, I haven't really been paying attn.

And yup, that's another reason why Saturn fears - b/c he castrated Uranus, he ate his children out of the fear that he would be defeated in the same way. His wife (Rhea also? My, that would make this myth quite easy to read in an Oedipal way) tricked Saturn anyways and Jupiter/Jove/Zeus ended up defeating him to form the newer generation of Roman gods w/Juno.

23-01-2003, 11:09
Originally posted by Minderwiz
Well, these don't seem to be transits to your chart at all, unless my version of your chart in complete rubbish. I've got your Saturn at 22 degrees 28 minutes of Leo, (which actually is only a degree of mine, though I was born whilst Saturn was still Direct). Currently Saturn stands at 22 degrees 57 minutes of Gemini and is also retrograde - so it is applying to your Saturn by Sextile.

None of the other aspects are reflections of possible transits between the planets and your chart so I'm not sure what you did but you haven't got Saturn transits for the January/February period.

So I'm at a loss to understand the figures you've given unless you asked for something else than you thought you'd asked for.


You could be right. You are much more experienced at this than I, and this software package is just new. I cast my natal chart and asked for a transits report and that's what it gave me but I could be doing something wrong. probably am, in fact. It's a bit like being used to driving a manual car and then getting the latest BMW.

There is a Janus user group that I can follow up and I might email you a copy of what I've got if that is OK? I haven't checked to see if you are emailable.

The chart and report I had done at Astrodienst gave a different set of transits, although some of their predictions were heavy duty as well, so that supports your approach.

I guess it's all a part of the learning process and I simply want to get it right - nothing else matters.

Thanks for you help.


23-01-2003, 11:19
Originally posted by isthmus nekoi
I've been noticing a drop in ppl posting - if this group is moving too fast again, please speak out! I think we can all empathize when astrological language quickly becomes too dense or cumbersome. .

Yes, it would be good to think of a way to involve more people.

Perhaps we could ask for a volunteer Aquarian and do his/her chart in really accessible language so that people can see how attractive and interesting it all is?

Or perhaps we could do chart on an event so that people can see how everything works. Of course, when I say *we* it probably boils down to you, Minderwiz and Ophiel and others who know a little bit more.

I noticed there was a lot of interest in the hororary question so maybe the occasional demonstration of something special like that would be good. And some historic stuff as well would be interesting. The possibilities are endless.


23-01-2003, 18:09
Originally posted by Minderwiz
Well, these don't seem to be transits to your chart at all,

None of the other aspects are reflections of possible transits between the planets and your chart so I'm not sure what you did but you haven't got Saturn transits for the January/February period.

So I'm at a loss to understand the figures you've given unless you asked for something else than you thought you'd asked for.



The report I requested was quite complex and included progressions and other things I don't understand, so the mistake is obviously mine.

Back to the books for definitions and other relevant things.

A good experience. How does one learn without mistakes? Just as well I'm not an air traffic controller, simply a space cadet. But I know quite a lot about Saturn now so it has been worth it.


Dark Inquisitor
23-01-2003, 19:35
Originally posted by Moongold

Perhaps we could ask for a volunteer Aquarian and do his/her chart in really accessible language so that people can see how attractive and interesting it all is?

If you decide you need an Aquarian volunteer, I am available-
PM if you need more info.


23-01-2003, 20:49
It can't be easy having Mars, the active aggressor in Aquarius, the humanitarian...
Is that why my mom calls me anti-establishment. In my younger days I called for anarchy. Not for the desire to live lawlessly, but because the powers that be really bite the big one.
I'm really irritated by the fact that our(U.S) government is supposed to be "by the people and for the people" but it's actually ALL about the elite.

Mars and Venus(in Scorp.) are squared, one problem I have in relationships deals with my extreme independence. Using Uranus as the modern ruler of Aquarius, I have an exact sextile to Venus.

isthmus, I can relate to the bordem thing. I don't like being bored, but I'm not sure how that fits in with my chart.

Aq. colors my 6th house, work relations. I have worked well with others in all my jobs...truely a team player. I have been in management, with better response from my workers than from the bosses before. I have a gentle way of encouraging people who don't want to work to be productive.

SATURN...UHG.....this Capi is so tired of Saturn.;) Saturn has such a BIG infuence on me. Seems like when I think I might find some part of my chart that does not involve this planet... ...SUPRISE.... I had forgotten that Saturn is the traditional ruler of Aq. I am not even going to go there...there was plenty of Saturn when we where in Capricorn*lol*

11th house, Cancer, I'm new to including the application of houses...I'm a little stumped here...too much and not enough. Cancer and 11th house are empty, so I look to the(ruler) Moon... it's in Capricorn...there's that Saturn guy again...
All I can think is that I'm not a very strict parent. I allow my children alot of freedom to feed their curiosity, because it's good for thier growth. I have my rules of respect and order...but not a very good enforcer of the order part, the house tends to be messy alot. Luckly they are not wild, quite well behaved. That does not come from my point of view but that of my mother's, so it has to be true.

there's more for me to tell...but I'm just home from work...and not quite in the groove yet...

23-01-2003, 21:03
Originally posted by Moongold
Yes, it would be good to think of a way to involve more people.

what if *we* made up a bunch of questions, starting with basic and moving towards advanced.
and put out a quiz thread...it might lure some in and test ourselves as well.

23-01-2003, 22:14
That's worth trying Lunalafey, even if the 'we' becomes singular.

It makes the thread relate to what people want to know or want to see

24-01-2003, 06:36
Also if anyone is interested in the Horary stuff I'll do a few more readings if I can get some questions.

I'm just coming up to my final examination for my second Astrology Diploma and when I've got that out of the way. I think I'm going to have a little time for readings - maybe one a week or so.

isthmus nekoi
24-01-2003, 07:12
Minderwiz> Good luck on your exam!!!!

Moongold> Thanks for your suggestions :) I think you greatly overestimate my abilities though; natal chart interpretation is probably the only aspect of astrology I could help w/ and even there, I have *much* to learn!! Anyways, looking fwd to hearing about Uran in your chart as well. Hope you get the whole software thing worked out...

Tarotphelia> wow, thanks for your offer. Lunalafey has been kind enough to set up an account on http://www.astro.com for us, so if you PM her for the username and password, you can post your chart on the site.... I don't have the time to do a full interpretation, but can certainly look at the Aqu threads in your chart if you do decide to post it.

lunalafey> Ah! We're both sun Cappys w/Mars in Aqu! ^_^ I hear ya w/the irresponsible authority problem - figures in authority are given that power so they can protect and guide their subjects. If they're only looking out for their own self interests, then why should we respect their authority over us??? *sigh* Anyways, your Cap sun/moon will probably tone down any extremism coming from your Aqu action w/Cap's thoughtful, practical approach to things.

Yes, w/those aspects, I'd imagine relationships w/you would never be boring! Venus in Scorp can get very serious and has powerful emotions - give her a little action from Mars and Uranus, and I imagine you can be unpredictable esp b/c you prefer to take an active role in relationships. Those placements also strike me as giving you a more Socialist streak than me. I say this b/c Aqu/Scorp are the 'revolutionary signs' and you also have Cancer cusping your 11th - this directs me to think that you feel larger social groups should nurture and protect its individuals. See, w/my Sag cusping 11th, I feel social groups should be geared towards educating its public, exploring and understanding our environment together and also, participating in a solid, unified religious system that can connect its followers w/the numinous experience.

But ooooooooooh.... no more tests.......... I'm taking a language course right now and it's *constant* testing! But no, I'm just kidding, a test sounds like a good way to learn more. ^_^

Dark Inquisitor
24-01-2003, 19:38
ksOriginally posted by isthmus nekoi

Tarotphelia> wow, thanks for your offer.
.. you can post your chart on the site.... I don't have the time to do a full interpretation, but can certainly look at the Aqu threads in your chart if you do decide to post it.


Okay- thanks Luna for fixing it all ! I posted my chart there- how embarrassing!


24-01-2003, 21:02
Originally posted by Tarotphelia
I thought you meant you just needed a random Aquarian to experiment on, not that you wanted an Aquarian with a chart already done ! I don't have a chart to post.

But, Luna thinks that you should have a non-forum person to work with, since you already know a lot about me .

not opposed to the idea...
I missed this thread and posts between the comp. cutting me off, answering a PM first before reading the threads....etc..

I think there will be a new chart on the account soon...;)

isthmus> GOOD WORK
I imagine you can be unpredictable esp b/c you
prefer to take an active role in relationships
*giggles* I don't mean too I find myself capi-planning and having an element of control only because I'm good at it. I don't control an individual, just the needs in life.

Those placements also strike me as giving you a
more Socialist streak than me. I say this b/c Aqu/Scorp are the 'revolutionary signs'

being one who is irked by the gov. and politics and the state that it is in....I look forward to a revolution!!!especially NOW...this does conflict with my anti-militant attitude.
you also have Cancer cusping your 11th - this directs me to think that you feel larger social groups should nurture and protect its individuals.
'tribal law' I call it. It's like that saying, 'It takes a village to raise a child' The Native American lived by having every adult be responsible for every child. Children would develope their talents by going to the adult that could help that talent along. Why should someone go without when there is more than enough to go around right next door? ...etc

minderwiz....I did not intend the use of the *we* as plural or singular....just following in the footsteps of moongolds post.....and good luck, I can't see you having any problem with finals!

isthmus nekoi
25-01-2003, 02:45
OK, I think I missed something here w/the Aqu chart.... I take this to mean it's okay for us to log into astro.com to look at Tarotphelia's chart? If so, I'll try to look at it after the weekend. Bleh, I've got another one of those aforementioned language tests.

lunalafey> Thanks! ^_^ I should clarify more about the Socialist thing w/Aqu and Scorp. Venus (planet of relationships esp personal ones) in Scorp having aspects from Uranus and Aqu Mars *doesn't* indicate a leftist mentality in itself, but other elements (ie house cusps) give the suggestion. Plus there's your FREEDOM FIGHTER subject heading ^_~

Dark Inquisitor
25-01-2003, 07:34
Originally posted by isthmus nekoi
OK, I think I missed something here w/the Aqu chart.... I take this to mean it's okay for us to log into astro.com to look at Tarotphelia's chart?



25-01-2003, 08:06
we should look to the planets and find out what Mercury is doing to us......we are SO confussed!!!
but i think we got it now....

25-01-2003, 16:07
I had requested the wrong report from Janus and just didn't see it until later. Janus Tech. Support have been really good and are emailing me another HELP file which was corrupted during download to the point of uselessness. They sent me another list of transits in the mean time and I also validated these with Astrowin and Astrolog. Hope it is right this time. I think I understand a lot more about transits now. The Cunningham book is great. She defines transits as moving aspects and gives some good techniques for understanding and interpreting them. More than any other book I have struck, I think, Cunningham shows you how to think about the chart. Her language is clear and she gives the reader simple but very effective techniques for understanding.

During Aquarius (2nd House) Saturn sextiles my natal Saturn Rx. Having three retrogrades (Saturn, Pluto and Uranus) in my natal chart, I tend to internalise things quite a bit. One of my life challenges has been to express deepest feelings to others and this is particularly interesting to me but not to anyone else in this thread at this moment!

A very personal interpretation for this particular Saturn transit in Aquarius relates to a particular issue in my life where I need to gently establish some boundaries for myself but also to let other boundaries relax a little and speak to someone else. This has been really hard for me to do and it is quite interesting to get added encouragement from a transit like this.

I am not sure how far to go with this and would appreciate some comment. The 2nd House is the house of self and self-worth/individuation. Iím assuming that even if aspected planets are not in the 2nd House, there is still some effect if the planet representing the sign Ruler aspects with other planets in the chart.? Let me know if I am wrong.

If this is the case on the 31 January Saturn Rx is quincunx my natal Venus and I think this has a very personal meaning for my current relationship and my values around this. I have a chance to articulate what I feel about the relationship and to open lines of communication that could be quite important for its well-being. Saturn must become retrograde very soon. From what Iíve read Saturn Rx transits last about four months so this could have an extended effect. Is this the observation informing your comments, Minderwiz?

One last comment, on 31 January there is a minor aspect of Uranus with Neptune. I can actively make this quite positive for myself in terms of spiritual understanding.

To think about another Aquarian connection, Aquarius the reformer is giving me an opportunity to reclaim some of the territory set in my natal chart which is interesting.


isthmus nekoi
28-01-2003, 07:49
had a peek at your upcoming transits on astro.com since you expressed some troubles w/your software:

What I saw was yes, a sextile from transiting Saturn to natal Saturn (also conj natal Uranus), activating 8th/Leo (natal) and 6th/Gemini. Around the same time, you will also have Jupiter almost (?) conjunct natal Pluto so it looks like you can get much done if you can really work that Saturn transit.

Regarding 2nd house issues, I'm not sure I would assign the individuation process to the 2nd house alone. Of course, I'm coming from a Jungian perspective, so if you have a different conception of individuation, it could very well be a 2nd house thing. From what I gather, the process of ind means a) growing into your own humanity b) paradoxically, letting go of your humanity by forging a conscious connection w/the powers that be. In other words, it's about becoming yourself *and* realizing your own role in the greater play of existence. I think all the houses have a hand in this process, whether it's the self assertion of 1st or the partnerships of 7th, or the exploration of 9th.... Of course, I've never read this, so I could very well be wrong.

isthmus nekoi
28-01-2003, 08:08
Wow, you are incredebly Aquarian!! The bulk of your planets rest in Aqu, although their conjunctions are very wide (8 degrees).

The predominance of Aquarian air I think would make you a very rational person, esp since you have both sun and moon and the personal planets (merc, venus) there. I'd imagine you have an unorthodox approach to life, with a great concentration on health/service since most of these Aqu planets are in the 6th house. Moon opposing natal Uranus adds to your unpredictability, or unusualness. Also, w/Leo ASC, I don't imagine you to be very quiet about your differences either, but not really in an antagonistic way.

Your sun and uranus are in mutual reception w/Uranus in Leo (ruled by Sun) and Sun in Aqu (ruled by Uranus). They don't aspect each other, so I don't know how much weight to give to this, only that self expression plays a role in your unique perspective to life, relationships and emotions.

Natal Uranus is in 12th. I've read this can be condusive to clairvoyance and suchlike, as well as the desire to hide any eccentricities on your part. You might want to come back when we start the Pisces thread to discuss the 12th house...

11th house is empty, w/a Gemini cusp. Again, b/c your Sun is in 7th, the house of equal partners/relationships, I'd say self expression is important, despite Uran in 12th. Communication of your ideas and thoughts on a group/social level as opposed to a personal level is something you can be more comfortable w/perhaps.

isthmus nekoi
28-01-2003, 08:27
OK, I have a major correction to make in terms of transits, Saturn, Uranus and Pluto. I wrote in the Cappy thread that when I had a Saturn opposition natal Saturn I made big big changes in my life. This actually isn't true. I was going by the calculation that Saturn makes hard aspects to itself every 7 years, but in my case, it was a little late coming in when I was 16, not 14.
The major change was when transiting Pluto was conj natal Uranus (in Scorpio/10th) and transiting Uranus (12th) was squaring natal Pluto (8th) (and sextiling natal Uran) when I was around 14. Woo hoo - double whammy! I went through some really *profound* and relatively sudden changes (mostly psychological), and after transiting Uranus crossed my ASC in the same year, *everyone* noticed the difference. For a while, it seemed almost everyone, even ppl who didn't know me well, would comment on how changed I was b/c it happened so *fast*. Even w/Pluto making conjunctions today, and Uran still in my 1st house, the changes aren't nearly as obvious, and are much more gradual.

Saturn opposing Saturn (squaring sun) at 16 makes the whole transiting Saturn seem much less ominous for me. Grade 10 was one of my favourite yrs. I wouldn't say it was an easy year for me - I had to deal w/a lot of internal and external challenges - but I cleared a lot of ground in my internal world. I developed a really ameliorative perspective to life b/c everything was about 'progressing' :P How very naive! But I got to see a lot of things that I never imagined was possible. At the time, I hadn't read Jung and my knowledge of psychology, mythology etc was very basic so I had no idea what I was doing! It was a reality check from the other side. It was consciously existing for the 1st time, in this hidden universe that I would later learn was called the collective unconscious by Jung.

b/c of transiting Pluto's conjunctions along my string of planets (from 10th to 1st), I see it as the force that awakens me to the depths that it can reach, which of course tends to smash away lots of presumptions handed down by our society's dominant AND marginalized ideologies. Then Saturn comes along to teach me how to build a structure from Pluto's wake, how to concretize and make use of what I have seen, how to integrate these things into my own life b/c society sure as heck can't - again, pulling structure from chaos, weaving a narrative and perspective from one's own unique place in space and time.

Dark Inquisitor
28-01-2003, 10:37
[QUOTE]Originally posted by isthmus nekoi
[B]Wow, you are incredebly Aquarian!! The bulk of your planets rest in Aqu, although their conjunctions are very wide (8 degrees).

__I noticed things piled up in one spot - if you have planets distributed more evenly, does that make you a better balanced, well-rounded person?

The predominance of Aquarian air I think would make you a very rational person,

__My idea of rational & other's idea of rational are often very different things!!

Natal Uranus is in 12th. I've read this can be condusive to clairvoyance and suchlike, as well as the desire to hide any eccentricities on your part.

__Even though I may desire that, it doesn't really work well!! I have given up for the most part.

I think the rest is pretty accurate too - thanks!

28-01-2003, 16:58
Originally posted by isthmus nekoi

Regarding 2nd house issues, I'm not sure I would assign the individuation process to the 2nd house alone.

Thanks Isthmus. This is helpful as are your earlier comments about the Saturn transits.


isthmus nekoi
29-01-2003, 09:05
__My idea of rational & other's idea of rational are often very different things!!

*LOL* Sometimes I feel the same way!! Regarding psychic abilities and such like, it's aspects to Neptune, Moon and 12th house activity that sets it all up. I'm not terribly knowledgable about the whole psychic thing though, so I'm not sure what a 'psychic' chart would look like...

Moongold, I've got a quote for you from Marie Louise von Franz (Jungian psychologist): "... our dream life creates a meandering pattern in which individual strands or tendencies become visible, then vanish, then return again. If one watches this meandering design over a long period of time, one can observe a sort of hidden regulating or directing tendency at work, creating a slow imperceptible process of psychic growth - the process of individuation." So there's another (albeit Jungian) way of looking at it!

01-02-2003, 09:23
I'm going to be away for a couple of weeks. Lots of reading and things to do, though.

See you soon and gratias


01-02-2003, 18:46

Have a good time - is all the reading Astrology and Tarot or other stuff?

Take Care and I look forward to your return

03-02-2003, 07:46

I'm a bit puzzled by you associating the eighth house with groups, since I've always seen that ascribed to the 11th house, with eighth house being linked to long-term relationships, other people's money, the occult and other hidden stuff, sex and death.

My own experience of Saturn is that he is very much the reflection of my fears. I have Saturn in Scorpio in the second house, and I do get very neurotic about security, pensions, and 2nd house stuff like that. My Saturn is the planet who says "No". Sometimes, that stops me doing what I want, but sometimes it also saves me from getting into trouble. Saturn is also about discipline. At the moment he is going spare because I'm writing this posting rather than getting on with my book index: "You need to do your index. If you don't meet the deadline, not only will you risk losing the money for this job, you might never get any more work from that publisher" etc etc.

With respect to semisquares, I must admit that I don't tend to look at them very much, and see them as a stressed, but minor aspect. I agree that Saturn opposing Sun can be seen as heavy, because this makes Saturn say No to the Sun, ie to the basic essence of being.

I have Sun conjunct Venus in Aquarius in fifth house, trine Moon in Gemini (9th) and Neptune in Libra (1st). I am fairly typical Aquarian, interested in social progress and ideals. Uranus in my 10th house (Cancer) initially expressed himself in my scientific training, which again is harmonius with Aquarius, but now it is Uranus the esoteric magician who has started to come through, reinforced by the Neptune (spirituality) trine to my Sun. Mercury in Pisces is rather pleased when I set aside the rigidity and precision of typical scientific communication for the stuff of dreams, visions and pathworking. Aquarian Sun/Venus in fifth is less expressed in creativity than in the fact that I do not feel myself bound by conventional ideas and legal ties with respect to relationships. However, Sun/Venus are opposed by Pluto in Leo (10th), who forces me to face my truth in all my actions, and also demands intensity of both these planets. Thus, I have not flitted from one relationship to another, as might otherwise be expected; the few relationships I have experienced have all been either transformative or highly toxic.

Apart from the Sun/Venus-Neptune-Pluto-Moon kite as described above, I have a yod with Pluto sextile moon both inconjunct Chiron in the 4th house. The question of roots, or rather, an ability to connect at all with my Polish roots has played a fairly major role in my life.

Incidentally, I came to astrology through astrodrama, where a group enacts the planets in one individual's chart, with respect to an issue or question identified by that individual. It is partly as a result of my experiences in such work that I tend to focus only on major aspects when I do charts. Also because of astrodrama, I do put quite a bit of emphasis on Chiron, because it is amazing how often he becomes the key to the understanding and resolution of an issue.


03-02-2003, 22:42

Yes you are right, the eighth is associate with death and taxes (and the property of other people, waste disposal, the occult, big business, etc). Groups, associations, society, hopes and aspirations are indeed eleventh House.

I agree with you in that Saturn does show what we fear and therefore where we look for security. Your second House Satrun would indicate fears or concerns relating to material wealth, talents, skills, etc. Clearly such fears are more likely to be related to situations where these are limited or may not materialise. With Saturn in Scorpio these are likely to be more intense and less rational than say Libra.

The Astrodrama seems very interesting - I'm sure many of us would like to know more about your experiences with this - it looks fascinating.

isthmus nekoi
04-02-2003, 03:14
An article about Aquarius' connections to Tarot:

Moongold> hope it's a good 2 weeks!

krys> welcome to the group and thanks for sharing your thoughts. Astrodrama does sound interesting...

Yes, Saturn is very much the Senex (old man archetype), but he's usually the one to get things done which is why we all need him ^_^ Your Pluto also sounds very interesting! I believe he's exalted in Leo...

05-02-2003, 09:39
Thank you for the welcome, isthmus nekoi.

Yes, Pluto is exalted in Leo, and the Sun is in detriment in Aquarius, so I guess I never had much chance of resisting plutonian energies!!!

I've had difficulties with Pluto for years. Finally, what I did was to visualise him as a fairly threatening male figure, with smouldering eyes, a long black cloak and a black hat with full brim. Then I transformed him, by clothing him in a suit of golden armour (although I let him keep his cloak over it ;) ). This was in effect saying that I wanted him to become a knight protector, so that his anger would be turned towards rooting out injustice and his intensity and obessiveness towards ever seeking the truth. To my surprise, he smiled at me, accepting his role fully, and I've been somewhat more comfortable with him ever since - not that he ever lets me off the hook entirely, but then that is his role.

Astrodrama - I'll try to answer questions, but it's very much something that can only really be experienced first hand. I think the most amazing thing is how the magic takes over. People do not need to know any astrology. The facilitator introduces the chart briefly, and gives some indication of the character of each planet. People then choose what they want to be. Sometimes, the session starts of fairly stilted, and then, suddenly everyone starts to channel the energy of their planet without thinking about it. The other thing that I have seen over and over again, is that if someone is hiding the real issue, this will always be revealed. One of the most painful astrodramas was for a woman whose partner also took part. She put up some issue. I'm acting her Venus, and all I can do is cry and cry, and it hurts. There is no seeming reason for this, since the issue is not to do with Venus stuff. Then, the other planets start saying things which do not seem to make sense. However, eventually it comes to a point where she blurts out that she is thinking of leaving her partner. Ouch!!! Fortunately, most astrodramas are not quite that heavy. The funniest one was a woman who wanted to know where she should go in her life. She had just had a baby. We all ended up falling asleep during the session - literally - it was her planets' way of telling her that she (and they) were tired because of the baby's demands, and that what she needed more than anything else at the time was not a high and worthy goal but rest!

isthmus nekoi
06-02-2003, 08:38
Would you prefer krys or Tehuti?... I think gold armour is very appropriate given that Pluto's name could be derived from Pluton (wealth).

Mm, yes, I don't think you need to know *anything* about myth or astrology etc to connect up w/archetypal energies. Although sometimes it helps if you do ^_^

06-02-2003, 09:06
Originally posted by isthmus nekoi
Would you prefer krys or Tehuti?

Either works for me. I know some people like to see a real name as well as an ID, which is why I sometimes sign off in my own name.

07-02-2003, 21:38
I couldn't stay away for very long but I am reading and really trying to master the basics by doing some chart analyses for friends. This is turning out to be a good practical exercise. The more I do the actual writing the more I remember.

I've just bought two new books - Astrology, Karma and Transformation by Stephen Arroyo. CRCS 1992 and Retrograde Planets: traversing the inner landscape by Erin Sullivan, Weiser 2000.

May not surface again for weeks.

Warmest regards,


07-02-2003, 22:56
HI Moongold,

I've got both of those books and they are well worth the read!

Hope it doesn't get to weeks before you start to resurface though :)

isthmus nekoi
08-02-2003, 00:28
Hey Moongold,

Glad you're getting so into this ^_^ I hope you're back in time for Pisces!

08-02-2003, 03:13
My Moon is in Pisces and my mother was a Pisces so have lots to learn.....

With regard to the books, my natal Saturn, Pluto (both 8th House) and Uranus (6th House) are all retrograde so I thought it would help to understand what it all might mean. I couldn't resist the Arroyo and was tempted to get something from Edgar Cayce on astrology and reincarnation but that seemed a bit compulsive :(

Back to Aquarius, I've discovered some beautiful Tarot associations. The Tarot correspondence seems to be the Star and she is called Daughter of the Firmament, Dweller between the Waters. She is Nut or Nuit, the naked Goddess of the Heavens:

Aquarius is mine. I am the Water Bearer. I am the Age appearing over your horizon. See how my sign reflects itself. 'As above, so Below'. I pour new waters upon the Earth. You have felt my presence in many ways. New ideas and beliefs, new hopes and ideals have sprung up where every drop has touched the parched Earth.........

From Ozaniec The Elemental Tarot Handbook Element Press 1994.

Beautiful, eh?


isthmus nekoi
11-02-2003, 10:30
Apparently, you can pick out threads in family charts. I haven't really looked into it though.

I think sun enters Pisces on Feb 18 so see you here a week tomorrow ^_^

isthmus nekoi
18-02-2003, 07:33
one last quick question before we move onto Pisces:

Why is the *water* bearer an air sign?

18-02-2003, 07:58
Because it is not the Water that is important but the container! - The water bearer is the disseminator of knowledge, which is carried in the water jar.

The Water here is the water of consciousness the knowledge that all people are brothers/sisters a truth that can only be seen intuitively.

The water in the sign of Aquarius is not still - it is not the pool of the unconscious - rather it is water that has been stirred - by ideas - ideas that can help humanity. And of course ideas are the stuff of Air signs.

I've also seen reference by Alan Oken to the glyph representing the motion of the ankles when we walk or the twin serpents of wisdom. I think he goes on to say that in the old days when someone wanted to send out a messenger to communicate information he had to go on foot (the ankles) or by boat (the water) or on the backs of animals (the serpents) - Aquarius therefore represents the communicating of ideas to the world - to other groups and societies.

isthmus nekoi
19-02-2003, 03:20
Thanks Minderwiz, I like your distinction b/w the waters of uncon and the waters of con ^_^

20-02-2003, 04:51
So do I but unfortunately I got the idea from Alan Oken - though he doesn't quite make the point in the same way - he certainly stimulated the idea for me!

05-04-2005, 02:03
I'd like to know what role the 8th and 9th Houses play, as that's where my Aquarii (plural of Aquarius?? lol) lurk.
How can I encourage them, or would that be undesirable? ;) I just feel that my Cancer Asc is raining on my parade and introverts me sometimes. Can I fight it with wacky Aquarius or should Leo be stronger?
Bib x

isthmus nekoi
06-04-2005, 03:02
Any planets in 8th or 9th will bring a focus of energy there.

8th deals primary w/shared resources, so money (taxes, wills), death (wills) and sex (prostitution) all fall under the 8th.

9th deals w/broadening one's horizons, so travel, higher education, philosophy and religion falls under the 9th.

I'm not sure what you mean by encouraging the 8th/9th houses. One thing to note is that transiting planets will activate empty houses (no natal planets within) - right now Mars and Neptune are in Aquarius.

Check out the Scorpio and Sagittarius study group threads for more details.

07-08-2005, 02:56

I have just looked at my chart and it doesn't seem to indicate Aquarius anywhere! That probably explains why I have a brother and at least two friends which have Aquarius Sun.

I would say that they all have a few things in common:
1) They always seems to have loads of friends, and are not particularly possessive, matter of fact I think that they don't seem to like it when someone acts that way towards them. In other words, very sociable and likeable
2) They are extremely good at giving advice, which is valuable and insightful, but at the same time not so good with accepting it
3) Seems to be intrigued with technological things, and can accumulate much as they can, except for my female friend, she seems to sway more towards the other things like new age (tarot cards, I Ching, and loads of other things that I can't think of right now)

Another thing I associate with Aquarius is thinking of things which can be considered before their (or our) time, classic example would have to be George Lucas, and a few other ones, if I put my mind to it!