what a wide array of decks

piscesdreamer

I'd say i'm a student of esoteric studies.I've mostly been impressed with 4th way approaches but have also read about cabala,alchemy,different schools of magic,and other occult and spiritual paths.I'm currently reading the book by Robert m.place: history symbolism and divination.At this point in my understanding i definitely think some esoteric knowledge was trying to be passed down through the cards.But being a traditionalist i take issue when something deviates so far from it's origins or roots.You start with the Italian,then the french decks...whatever if any esoteric knowledge that was meant to be communicated did so at the end of that process,in Marseilles.though i appreciate the rider smith deck,i wonder how much in the way of the original meanings of the trumps had been lost at the time of that reinterpretation.Now all these new decks on the market place from the kitchy to the arcane are just reinterpretations of long lost meanings and sometimes just fanciful thinking.i don't doubt that the tarot archetypes are profound and try and communicate higher knowledge,but when something deviates so far from it's source it loses power and authenticity.
 

Sphinxmoth

*any* deck is only as worthwhile as the person reading it
 

NorthernTigress

Maybe you should go take a look at the "When does tarot stop being tarot?" thread.
 

piscesdreamer

NorthernTigress said:
Maybe you should go take a look at the "When does tarot stop being tarot?" thread.
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I did and posted a response.I think this is a very important question.I'm not trying to offend anyone,who am I to say what someone gets out of a spiritual tool.But it is a question that at least deserves some pondering.I'll illustrate my opinion like this in regard to the transmission of the tarot:If you have a bonfire and light a torch from that bonfire,you walk away with only a fraction of the source's original power.And from there you light a match from that torch again you walk away with even far less than that.In my humble opinion there are some supposed tarot decks on the market where there is even less light than a match in them.
 

Nevada

piscesdreamer said:
I'm currently reading the book by Robert m.place: history symbolism and divination.At this point in my understanding i definitely think some esoteric knowledge was trying to be passed down through the cards.But being a traditionalist i take issue when something deviates so far from it's origins or roots.You start with the Italian,then the french decks...whatever if any esoteric knowledge that was meant to be communicated did so at the end of that process,in Marseilles.
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I get that feeling too, that it wasn't likely a series of random images assembled just to create a game deck -- and I think that even a game can have some kind of message, or a hint of one, behind it. Better Tarot than Monopoly, IMO. ;)

piscesdreamer said:
though i appreciate the rider smith deck,i wonder how much in the way of the original meanings of the trumps had been lost at the time of that reinterpretation.Now all these new decks on the market place from the kitchy to the arcane are just reinterpretations of long lost meanings and sometimes just fanciful thinking.i don't doubt that the tarot archetypes are profound and try and communicate higher knowledge,but when something deviates so far from it's source it loses power and authenticity.
Click to expand...
For me, there's no need to remain with an esoteric foundation that we don't even know for sure existed, and which we certainly don't know the details of. In creating anything new an artist or writer draws on the known. If imagination is creative memory, then perhaps revelation or esoteric wisdom is creative memory of the collective unconscious. Today's decks can be every bit as inspiring to me as older ones, depending on how in touch with shared archetypes the deck's creator is, regardless of their historical knowledge of Tarot or its possible esoteric origins.

If there's anything to spirituality, or for that matter psychology, we all, in our deepest psyches, have esoteric origins, don't we? For that reason I can't see dismissing modern Tarots just because they've evolved in one way or another away from the original. Many of them are nonetheless inspired.
 

epvitale

piscesdreamer said:
I'll illustrate my opinion like this in regard to the transmission of the tarot:If you have a bonfire and light a torch from that bonfire,you walk away with only a fraction of the source's original power.And from there you light a match from that torch again you walk away with even far less than that.In my humble opinion there are some supposed tarot decks on the market where there is even less light than a match in them.
Click to expand...

Of course, you could take the torch you lit from the bonfire and instead of lighting a match, light several other torches of equal size and power. In that way you are spreading more lighht through the world while not shrinking it's value.

As for esoterics; like art, it is in the eye of the beholder. If I sketch Michaelangelo's David or take a picture of the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel is their beauty and awe diminished? I think not.

The true power of anything lies not within our stars but within ourselves. (To paraphrase Shakespeare).

Gary
 

piscesdreamer

epvitale said:
Of course, you could take the torch you lit from the bonfire and instead of lighting a match, light several other torches of equal size and power. In that way you are spreading more lighht through the world while not shrinking it's value.

As for esoterics; like art, it is in the eye of the beholder. If I sketch Michaelangelo's David or take a picture of the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel is their beauty and awe diminished? I think not.

The true power of anything lies not within our stars but within ourselves. (To paraphrase Shakespeare).

Gary
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yes you make a good point and I'm trying to say none of the modern decks are authentic as some of them seem truly inspired...but i think there is a limit as how far you can stretch original symbols or idea's before they are no longer resemble the original at all.just my 2 centavos
 

SolSionnach

piscesdreamer said:
In my humble opinion there are some supposed tarot decks on the market where there is even less light than a match in them.
Click to expand...
I'll agree with you completely. I, for one, find all the 'theme' decks, be they fae or pirates or yoga or whatever, are not tarot. I don't feel that you can stray too far from the Marseilles and have a true tarot...

That being said, I own some decks (Shining Woman/Tribe, I'm looking at you) that are a complete mish-mash of theme and various esoterica, and they work wonderfully. I also own decks which are an artistic delight. But are they tarot? uh uh. Not IMNSHO.
 

Briar Rose

piscesdreamer said:
I'd say i'm a student of esoteric studies.I've mostly been impressed with 4th way approaches but have also read about cabala,alchemy,different schools of magic,and other occult and spiritual paths.I'm currently reading the book by Robert m.place: history symbolism and divination.At this point in my understanding i definitely think some esoteric knowledge was trying to be passed down through the cards.But being a traditionalist i take issue when something deviates so far from it's origins or roots.You start with the Italian,then the french decks...whatever if any esoteric knowledge that was meant to be communicated did so at the end of that process,in Marseilles.though i appreciate the rider smith deck,i wonder how much in the way of the original meanings of the trumps had been lost at the time of that reinterpretation.Now all these new decks on the market place from the kitchy to the arcane are just reinterpretations of long lost meanings and sometimes just fanciful thinking.i don't doubt that the tarot archetypes are profound and try and communicate higher knowledge,but when something deviates so far from it's source it loses power and authenticity.
Click to expand...



Not necessarily. Something could take a different path, and still be true to itself.
 

Grigori

piscesdreamer said:
I'm trying to say none of the modern decks are authentic as some of them seem truly inspired...but i think there is a limit as how far you can stretch original symbols or idea's before they are no longer resemble the original at all.just my 2 centavos
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Sure, virtually every modern deck is a long way away from the early decks. We know a lot of the modern decks are designed to convey spiritual "truths" and we suspect the original cards were designed to be a fun game, that may hide spiritual truths, either on purpose or accidentally. But no one really knows or agrees on that.

If you start with the assumption that the older decks intentionally convey a deeper meaning, then any variation is a watering down and you can't possibly be happy with any modern interpretation. Although if there is some great meaning in the older decks, there's no one who can tell you what it was anymore so we're all just making educated guesses. I s'pose I don't see any real benefit in rejecting something we do know about, because it doesn't conform with something we have more limited knowledge of. Though, I don't think a modern deck is necessarily better, just different.

But just to be safe, please keep those bonfires away from my decks ;)
 
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