Aeclectic Tarot Forum - Secret Tarot - Tarocchi degli Segreti

Osher

02-02-2003, 11:04

Oooops

Now, there is a strange thing, I have just realised, that for the past few weeks I have been reading the 10 Wands as the 10 Swords. Which means that all the reading I have done, and comments too, on this card are wrong. It is also means that I have never pulled the 10 Swords in a reading.

I wonder if there is a reason to this?

Actually, going through the deck just now, I have pulled a few cards that struck me as being interesting:
9 Wands. Sorry, I don't get this one
7 & 8 Coins. Christmas we seed for invention (gain) later. Excellent!
10 Wands. Still an excellent card
4&6 Coins. The cold man, saving money. Yet, another cold man giving.
3 Coins. I like it
10 Coins. Love, but a mature couple/house. Fits 10 better
Lovers: Just how it should be: choice
3 Swords: Lonely mission, skulls in the snow. Interesting take on this card. As if seeing the aftermath of defeat, which after the pain is sorrow
5 Swords:Lara Croft jumping into a situation of certain defeat. Interesting way of seeing the card, but OK
8 Swords: The girl looks pathetic, as if she needs help. Good.

What do you reckon? Just some ideas anyway.

firemaiden

02-02-2003, 12:23

Okay, Happiness, there is a lot of material in your last post for a study group or research fo the next three weeks :)

Plus, I was all set to start on the 2 of swords! I wanted to say, there are some really cool things about the two of swords:

- Her pose recalls the RW Star.

- she is actually sitting in the grass, but it looks like she is on an island in the middle of a calm sea, because the edge between lake and shore is blurry.

- Further blurring the land/water contrast is the fact that her clothes form ripples at the bottom of her rock, giving the illusion water -- an image which comes right off the RW High Priestess Card. (not a surprise I guess, since they are both a #2

- The two swords are like the two pillars of the High Priestess card.

- the crescent moon also relates to the RW high priestess card.

-this is one of the first decks I have seen where the two swords are not crossed,

- her lovely, vulnerable blue-ish nudity...

- the rocks look like sharks, or alternatively like ships. They also form a corridor to the horizon.

- she has no blindfold, but her eyes are closed

firemaiden

02-02-2003, 12:37

Glad you asked. Maybe we can puzzle this one out together. Supposed to be about opression, right? So why does she have bare feet?

It is the emprisonment of "barefoot and pregnant"?
--hard to imagine since she looks so dominant.
The stone castle certainly looks emprisoning.
The high collar is like one of those bondage necklaces, but then she has bare arms. Her long cigarette holder/wand and the skull he holds make her look like a witch about to cast a spell. Perhaps it is the reader who is facing oppression/bondage, and she is the dominitrix barring our only visible means of escape, the window...
What do you think?

Bye the way, I am not surprised that you mixed this one up with swords. Have a look at the Queen of Swords...

Hedera

02-02-2003, 15:52

10 of wands: Glad you asked. Maybe we can puzzle this one out together. Supposed to be about opression, right? So why does she have bare feet?

It is the emprisonment of "barefoot and pregnant"?
--hard to imagine since she looks so dominant.
The stone castle certainly looks emprisoning.
The high collar is like one of those bondage necklaces, but then she has bare arms. Her long cigarette holder/wand and the skull he holds make her look like a witch about to cast a spell. Perhaps it is the reader who is facing oppression/bondage, and she is the dominitrix barring our only visible means of escape, the window...
What do you think?

Yes, I can certainly see that! Her being the oppressor, instead of a figure representing the opressed. She has even got everthing that you are passionate about 'held prisoner' as dull, un-living pictures of wands on her wall.

Looking as the queens as being in charge in this deck makes a LOT of sense. Never though of it as a women-empowering deck before! LOL!
I can imagine the kings being the cuckolded husbands, and the knights the young, handsome, foolish, reckless lovers of the queens.

The only two cards I really have a problem with are the Empress (too closed-in, no nature in sight, can't find anything I can connect with the overall picture I have of the Empress) and the 5 of Swords. That one is too much like another version of the 7 of wands.

I hadn;t used the deck in a while, might try another reading with it again soon.

This thread is starting to sound like a study group waiting to happen...
:) Hedera.

firemaiden

02-02-2003, 16:09

Yes, it is like a study group waiting to happen...I knew I liked the artwork, but I did not expect to find so much depth! Plus it has gotten me more interested in the Rider Waite Smith deck, since I did a card by card comparison of the two, and found what interesting things Nizzoli has done with it. (like repeating the RWS imagery of the High Priestess on his 2 of swords card).

Re: the empress -- Yes...this is strange -- all the unhappy aspects of power, the scary teutonic eagle...the blood-red color of her cape...the copper snake wound around the leg of her throne (I almost wrote tomb instead of throne!!!) and the barrenness of the landscape outside! What is going on here? She is like the anti-empress?

AHA I GET IT NOW! this is really exciting!!
The Empress is usually seen as Persephone, goddess of Spring, right? Or as her mother, Demeter. But here she is potrayed in her other guise! Wife of Hades! She is empress of the Underworld! What a twist!!!!!

Hedera

02-02-2003, 16:29

I L*like* the way you mind works, Firemaiden!
That makes a *lot* of sense - and the Emperor as a stern ruler of the upper world (what the heck is the common English term for the opposite of the under world? Oh well).
Only -slight- problem I see is that each and every female in this deck looks as if she is the ruler of the underworld! :D

And I do kinda miss having a nice, fertile, nurturing sort of woman in the deck..... NOt one of the women here could be described as 'nice', I think. ;)

Hedera.

btw: I think the Hermit is my favourite Hermit of all decks!

Osher

02-02-2003, 16:35

Maybe we should see the Empress as powerful, like the Emperor. All is dark, except a tiny window, and her, in her bright red dress. She holds a small staff. Maybe she represents female power. One powerful thing women, but not men have, is the power of birth.

I see her as powerful, but trapped. In a way, that is the way of a monarch. Take Prince Charles, he might be powerful (what he says carries) and have some nice material items, but he is also trapped. For the rest of his life he will find everything dictated to him, if he says or does the wrong thing the media will hound him.

Still, I never looked at this card, so thanks Hedera and Firemaiden.

As for the 10 Wands, (I have said this before) she like the Empress. She has wealth, and material items, yet she is trapped. The term I used before is a gilt cage, and that still holds. She has reached the end of the path (being a 10), has everything, but is now trapped by it all.

Well, that is my take.

Still, one could take a Shakespearean look at the cards. The woman in 10 wands holding a skull? Well, I need not say which play that is! As for the Empress, well, she could be said to be in flame-red tafetta, which is a euphamism for a prostitute.

Not saying that so, but an interesting idea, no?

firemaiden

02-02-2003, 16:56

Originally posted by Happiness

Still, one could take a Shakespearean look at the cards. The woman in 10 wands holding a skull? Well, I need not say which play that is!

er....Hamlet? That flashed through my mind too, but I couldn't make sense of it.

As for the Empress, well, she could be said to be in flame-red tafetta, which is a euphemism for a prostitute.

VERY INTERESTING INDEED.

Okay, what do you think about the High Priestess: there is something about her forbidding gaze, her resemblance to the Queen of Spades, the simple power of her outstretched arms on her huge throne, her lunar white face that make me feel as though I have come directly into communication with a psychic gate-keeper. She poses more an obstacle to the portal than an invitation -- just as the lady on the 10 of wands (whom she also ressembles) stands in the way of the window. She makes me think of the psychic dangers, as well as the potential beauty of passing through this door....

Osher

02-02-2003, 18:33

Slightly breaking the train of thought here (interesting as it is)...

I found the card stock and print to be of an excellent quality. In fact, the best I have seen. The cards are not too thin, and the edges are well sealed. I find that some cards (e.g. Kazanlar) use such a material that the edges crease up i.e. the top layer folds back, exposing the white underside. Other cards (Kazanlar again, and the Rider Mythic) are too thin, and feel more like photocopy paper.

The secret has a nice, slightly plastic, feel to it. I am almost tempted to suggest that they are printed on a polyester variant (I used to be in the plastic print industry). Most curious to know.

Anyway, point is, the Secret tarot wins me over again!

firemaiden

02-02-2003, 21:43

Originally posted by Hedera
btw: I think the Hermit is my favourite Hermit of all decks!

I like the Hermit too, Hedera. Great atmosphere. One thing bothers me a little, though, that is the ressemblance of the cloak and stick to the death cloak and scythe. What do you make of that?

Cerulean

02-02-2003, 22:45

The High Priestess speaks:
If you believe that she of the dark hair is mythical, she of the bow and arrow that runs under the moon., then she might be Artemis, the Huntress. Then she might be of the myths that speak of the aspect that is beautiful, unreachable and unforgiving. If she is the veilled one to humans, she who is sister to the sun, she might be deadly and unforgiving to who she deems unpure or unchaste in the classical myths. In tales of warning and story, could she be...
In the Moon, she runs as as the Huntress. She runs beautiful at the edge of sight, but not for human eyes. He spied on her and told his friends once too often. He boosted about it in a drunken fit the last time. When he crept, his dogs and friends waiting, she turned around. She turned the man into a deer and bound his voice, so he could not cry to his own dogs and friends. Only after death, to their horror, as the sun rose, he turned back to human form. In the Ten of Swords, you see among the snaky tree roots they stumbled, threw their swords down and fled.
His friends were forever cursed, as well, for as in the Nine of Swords you see what they saw ever after in their dreams, a beautiful woman with dark hair and deathly white skin, their swords shining as the moon in the dark, their swords that killed their friend. Their nightmares would never leave them.
Or she is the embodiment of enchantment, causing the hunters to catch their breath in their dreams, never finding satisfaction in humankind again and they strayed to lands unknown.
In the Eight of Swords, you see one of the sisters of the young men, half-stumbling and half-clad in the confusion of the night. She begged the Moon goddess for a chance to see her brother and friends again, she would serve Artemis as a chaste handmaiden. Otherwise, she believes, her friends and her mother (Queen of Swords), would be berefit and mourning for their lost brothers forever. You see one of the man, his wits lost, sneaking away in the seven of swords, as a thief in the night.
Artemis accepted the woman's as a proof of sisterly love, only saying all her hand maidens must forever be pure. So in the Six of Swords, the maiden-woman-sister leaves her home.

Cerulean

02-02-2003, 23:22

In the Five of Swords, the maiden is trained in the service of Artemis, she a sword (and (gulp) gun-toting rockclimber!!)...she has weapons of destruction and training that the world of this time has not seen.
In her mind, she sees the scene of the Four of Swords: mothers and sisters of her past world as pale statues, sitting in abandoned towers with swords of their lost brothers hanging as crosses on their walls. The memory seems long and lost compared to her vital, strange life now.
Artemis has been true to her promise: the mad brothers have regained their wits and forgotten the sorrowful murder of their friend. But one man remembers the lost maiden to Artemis and despite the pleas of others and warning--for Artemis does not give up her handmaidens--he went to search for her, the sign of three swords on his banner. One sword for a friend he barely remembers, but sences is lost, one sword for her, one sword for himself--for he realizes his quest might be perilous and a lost cause. We see the scene in the three of swords
In the two of swords, this scene shows the feminine nature of choice---John Dee has said that the two of swords shows either a barrier that will divide two forever or a choice that will bring peace for now. He of the three of swords finds her under a waning moon and his choice will either be to rescue her or die in trying.
He walks, silent, as the Hermit does, hooded, with a light and staff. He puts down his sword for he knows that Artemis can strike him down at any time; or the handmaiden, not recognizing him, she might kill him at any time. He walks to the grove of Artemis, dimly remembering something horrible, but he does not know...the dawn is approaching
Artemis as in the guise of a young woman pours a stream of water into a fountain under the last faint star, as we see in this card. He does not look at her with desire, he stands with head bowed. Artemis speaks, he replies softly, bends his knee down.
A shadow approaches, and he sees a raised shadow of a sword above him. He keeps his knee and head bowed, waits in silence. A clang of metal on stone, then water is splashed on his head and a laugh rings clear. He raises his head and see her, the lighter-haired girl that he remembers standing in the dawn. She is winged as Temperance, uncovering a goblet of shining liquid. A white ermine sleepily peers out of the nearby grass.
There is a metal sword encased in stone; odd symbols on the monolith and corroded metal in the sword shows it has been there a long time. The Ace of Swords, Temperance explains, is a symbol of ancient times when once a man assaulted one of Artemis' handmaidens. Legend says that Artemis killed both man and maiden; the man in truth was transformed to a strange beast who lived with fishes. The maiden was sent away, but her stern likeness in stone can be wakened and take vengence with the sword against any who venture with violence against Artemis or her handmaiden.
The man, as the Hermit, blinks at his winged, beautiful sister and thinks of the cold castle that he has come from. The women hiding themselves from the light of day and the man drink, boosting of lost lands and times. Here, he sees in her face is sun, life amid trees and grass, beauty and joy. He bows his head, swears allegiance to the beauty and purity of Artemis and in joy, his sister raises a goblet of light to his lips.
After he drinks, she sheds her cloak and hat and he sees her dressed in sea blue; there is sun shining and he throws off his own cloak. He and she are fair and young as in the Two of Cups and they both drink from the divine cups and fountains on the warm flagstones.
The High Priestess stops. What, I say, what happens?
She smiles and leans back, her arms relaxed. Ahh child, she says, that is another story. Take the cards and visit yourself, these lands of secrets and dreams...

firemaiden

03-02-2003, 03:43

Firemaiden for once is speechless...
Breathtaking, Mari. Breathtaking, beautiful, and it feels so...so right

...who are you, Mari? psychic dream traveller? Poetessa, reincarnated of Dante?

.... speak!

Might you send this to Riccardo at LS?

Cerulean

03-02-2003, 11:11

...and good teachers, we all become fellow travelers and believers in love.
Maybe if Riccardo has some time for this thread, it will be of interest to him.
Best wishes---and now do some people believe that Lo Scarabeo can give us fans some inspirational tarots? I do hope so...
My best wishes as people unlock their own secret stories...
Mari Hoshizaki

IsisUnveiled

03-02-2003, 11:32

For the firt time in a ling time I have the "I have to have this deck" feeling. As soon as I get some money, I am getting this deck!

Osher

03-02-2003, 14:41

Mari, that was amazing. I am normally garelous, but I am rendered unable to say much, except, thanks.... In my silence take my wonder and contemplation, transending words.

Hedera

03-02-2003, 15:49

Hedera (pointing to Mari):

'Yeah....what she said...'

Great stuff, Mari!
:D

firemaiden

05-02-2003, 15:02

Okay, I have just had a couple days of traveling and staying alone in hotels to contemplate this deck. A couple of puzzles!

1. Please tell me, look at the High Priestess now. Look in her big green skirt. Look at the watermark in the skirt. Turn it on its side, turn it around. Tell do you see any shapes or figures in the watermark?

2. Look at the sky in the devil card...do you see any shape or figure???

2. Do you see any masks? Look esp. at the High Priest...
Who might be behind the mask?

3. A couple of the pages look like they are wearing a strap on cod-piece...

What are all these masks and disguises about?

I am not going to tell you what I see or think, because I want to see if anyone else sees the same thing!

Osher

05-02-2003, 18:59

OK, going back to an old bugbear of mine: The 10 Wands!

So, the 10 Wands is the end of the road, and in many decks (like my TotOP) shows a man over-loaded with work. This is the result of the all those wands..... In the Secret tarot, the terminal is not over-burdaning, but creating a gilded cage. As I see it, it is like the man who has a good job, so he buys an expensive house/wife (!)/car etc. However, he needs to work all the time to keep it, and becomes a prisoner of his own success.

Now, to my mind, the idea of the gilded cage is more relevent to the modern world, yes? How then, does this backward impact on the other Secret cards?

We had Mari's wonderful piece on Swords. I am just trying to picture the story, and relvence, of the wands.

firemaiden

05-02-2003, 19:33

well, I don't really get gilded cage in the ten of wands, maybe for the nine of wands. To me, the woman looks too in the 10 of wands looks powerful and too free to be in a gilded cage.

NOW have a look at the Priestess skirt!!

firemaiden

06-02-2003, 10:39

OKAY NOBODY is answering my questions, so I will tell you something. In the skirt of the High Priestess, I see a SLAIN DEER, and something else.

Osher

06-02-2003, 14:45

What do I see in the skirt of the High Priestess:

Not a slain deer, but a sleeping wolf!
The signature of the artist
Some kind of religeous figure, to the left (from our view of the skirt).
Smoke?

The Devil? No, nothing, but anyway, I think they are in a cave.

High Priest? I think that is his face, not a mask!

OK, as you asked about the male pelvic region: The Emperor, the Knave of Wands, and possibly The Lover have 'stiffy's! Something is definately stirring down there..... Speaking of which, I'm sure it is a slip, but just look at the left hand (to our right) of the 6 wands!

The finest cod piece though belongs to the Knave of Swords, with the Charioteer just behind. 2 Wands not bad either.

Now, about the 10 Wands......(OK, another time, but I would like others opinion on this)

firemaiden

06-02-2003, 14:58

THANK YOU Happiness, you made my day!
You see a religious figure too? I see a seated god like figure with a white beard! Maybe the real high priest.

I think the high priest is wearing a mask. I got the mask idea from the Filipas site. He mentions masks but does not go into details.

A few more questions: why does the high priest appear on the stone sculptures around the World card.

Why does the High Priest have red hair, streaming behind his mask, (I still think its a mask, it looks way too wooden to be a face, and this artist is capable of doing faces...) and why is his hand so feminine?

Why does the Empress have a wooden chair that belongs in a cathedral, and the High Priest have a stone chair that belongs in a castle?

Why are they both wearing red?....

IN the devil card, in the clouds I see the claws of the crab from the moon card.

Minos

08-02-2003, 03:52

Originally posted by firemaiden

I love it. Did I say that?
I really really like this deck.

Has to be one of the most genuinely sexy (as opposed to simply dirty) decks out there.

Some things only the Italians do well. :)

Osher

08-02-2003, 08:05

Originally posted by Minos
Has to be one of the most genuinely sexy (as opposed to simply dirty) decks out there.

Some things only the Italians do well. :)

Except they also do the really dirty decks too, such as the Garden of Priapus. The Germans aren't bad either, such as the Rohrig.

Emily

08-02-2003, 08:27

Oh dear, I've just checked out the scans of this deck and I think I've just added it to my wishlist - I can't believe I've not noticed this deck before, Wonder if Amazon sell its lol :)

Osher

09-02-2003, 09:14

Oh, it is easy to over look a deck. There are so many available, and that is just from the major publishers. Maybe the time wasn't right before? The point is, you have now decided that like us you like this deck (OK, some of us love it), and would like to get.

Let us know when you get it, and what you think. I think you'll be impressed!

Good Luck!!!!!!!

blue_fusion

09-02-2003, 09:29

i got this onefor christmas, andits doing wonders!!! : i find that it rather is quite easy to read. :)

firemaiden

09-02-2003, 09:38

Aha! Bluefusion! now we've got you! :D
What do you like about it?

zagone

14-04-2003, 03:56

Hi all -- I'm coming to this party most likely too late, but here's a few of my thoughts on the deck for what they are worth:

10 Wands -- Similar to one other poster, I see the lady as the oppressor. Her feet are bare because she never has to work. She uses her defeated enemy's skull as an ashtray -- or else has so little respect for the sacrifices of others. The wands are stuck static in the curtains enslaved to her needs.

There is an alternative interpretation for 10 of wands (rather than oppression and overbearing work) that has it as an end to the use of the power of the wands suite. Sort of the wands being put away after a successful run. This card works for that interpretation also -- the wands have been put away (in the curtains), their energy no longer needed, and the lady relaxes obviously successful after their use (since she has the skull of an enemy for an ashtray).

Firemaiden -- I'm failing to see some of what you are finding, but you are doing exactly the sort of outside-the-box analysis that sometimes finds subtle stuff everyone else misses. I think, above and beyond the divinatory meanings, artists sometimes tell stories across multiple cards. I appreciate you trying to find them.

I am willing to consider the mask idea... My favorite theory, however, for the wooden faces on the high priest, the kings, and others is that they have been partially taken over by the powers they represent and are no longer totally human... This is vaguely similar to the guided cage idea -- they would be better off less "successful".

There likely is something strange going on with the Empress... I also really dislike her -- I want the nature connection at least, even if her nurturing self might be a bit at odds with the feeling of the deck...

I really, really like this deck also. I did a celtic cross work-up about someone close to me and found the deck very clear, and to-the-point. I also found that (at least for that person) the differences in the meanings of cards in this deck from the usual meanings worked perfectly for them. That is, the queen of swords represents sorrow here (in addition to clear communication), and the lovers card emphasizes choices to be made. Dead-on accurate.

-- Zagone

firemaiden

14-04-2003, 08:21

Zagone, what a wonderful post! What you say about the wooden faces makes a lot of sense to me.
I think the Empress is harking back to the Marseilles card, it is equally as bare, and uses the same colors. I thought for a while there was a bizarre tie between her and the hierophant, because her chair looks like a church pew or something. But then I saw the Marseilles card, and thought nah, this is just not inspired by RWS, but rather by the Marseilles. The scenery outside does remind me however of Mount Aetna, or the "entrance to hell".

What you say about the 10 of Wands convinced me. Looking at it again, it is like she is done with the deed, and rather pleased.

zagone

14-04-2003, 13:24

Thanks Firemaiden! I'll have to take a look at the Marseilles deck -- sounds like that is the answer.

The 10 of Wands is quite interesting. I like how both possible meanings (1. Overloaded or oppressed, 2. The work is done and energy of wands put away or ready to reallocate) can be supported by this card. In RW the man is obviously carrying too many wands and can't see where he is going (#1). In Hudes, the man is more easily carrying the wands and is able to clearly see his path (#2).

In Secret Tarot we can support both possibilities with the card.

-- Zagone

firemaiden

26-04-2003, 06:05

bump
I am bumping this thread up for Wee Amazon, in hopes that we will have another willing victim for digging up WEIRD STUFF.

Wee Amazon

26-04-2003, 12:03

.....am enjoying reading all the posts alreay here, and will come back with a few thoughts later....

thanks again, firemaiden

love
Wee Amazon

spoonbender

18-08-2003, 18:53

I got the Secret Tarots a few days ago and think it is absolutely beautiful! I totally understand Firemaiden’s enthusiasm when she got it!

9 Wands. Sorry, I don't get this one
Well, it looks like the girl is thinking; perhaps about the pain someone/something caused her? She's alone. I think she put the wands there to protect herself from others, to keep pain away from her. Yet the sun is shining, trouble seems gone, but the girl doesn’t seem aware of that—a shadow lies on her face… But everything around here is living and growing, just like she is growing and learning...

I like the Hermit too, Hedera. Great atmosphere. One thing bothers me a little, though, that is the ressemblance of the cloak and stick to the death cloak and scythe. What do you make of that?
This has become my favourite Hermit, the atmosphere is fantastic! Why does his cloak resembles that of Death? Hmm... The Hermit was sometimes called ‘(Father) Time’, perhaps the clue lies there? With Time comes Death... The Hermit has seen many endings in his life, and has dealt with a lot of pain, but that has given him the knowledge and wisdom to light his path—and that of others?

Please tell me, look at the High Priestess now. Look in her big green skirt. Look at the watermark in the skirt. Turn it on its side, turn it around. Tell do you see any shapes or figures in the watermark?
I see a witch in profile to the left, a dragon's head in profile in the middle, the profile of a wolf in the right (grinning with sharp teeth), and a raven on top of the dragon... And in the veil between the pillars, I see the doorway of a castle.

Do you see any masks? Look esp. at the High Priest...
Who might be behind the mask? ... Why is his hand so feminine?
I definitely think the High Priest is wearing a mask, perhaps showing that underneath that rigidity and strictness, there is a vulnerable, loving person (this ties in well with the rather feminine hand)? perhaps it shows that when you get to know the Hierophant, he really isn't that bad as many people think? But I like Zagone's take on the mask-thing too!
I think the guy on the Three of Pentacles is also wearing a mask... something on the card seems wrong to me, I don't really get it! any thoughts on it? (link: http://www.tarotpassages.com/bsec3d.jpg)

Now, for my own questions...

Could anyone shed some light on the difference (in this deck!) between the 5 of Swords and the 7 of Wands? They seem SO similar! The meaning the LWB gives for the 5 of Swords is ‘victory gained with great pain’, does ANYONE see that in the image? The woman on the card is charging of to 5 swords, but she seems rather confident, is floating in the air, and has two swords herself, and a gun! Here's a link: http://www.tarotpassages.com/bsec5s.jpg
And what do you make of the 5 of Pentacles? A man is taking the picture of a glamorous woman, who seems rather confident too. How does that tie in with the more traditional meanings (RWS, Thoth, Etteilla...)? Link: http://www.tarotpassages.com/secret1.jpg ...

Thank you so much for replying,

Spoonbender

firemaiden

18-08-2003, 20:22

Hey Spoonbender, I am so tickled that you brought this old friend up again, and that you can see figures in the skirt!!! and the masks!!

I'm embarrassed to say, I left my deck, (most of my decks) behind in my Berlin flat, and don't have it with me now, so I can't really do justice to your questions. But I have the image of the five of pentacles, firmly in mind. I think this one may hark back to the RiderWaite image in that here is a man taking pictures of a beautiful woman, but like the figures in the snow, passing the stain-glass window of the church, he can't have her... he can't touch her, just take pictures of her. Perhaps there is an element of being shut out from love too for the woman. It is often said that the quest for fame and glory leaves one feeling empty - bereft of the deeper (spiritual) nourrishments like happiness in love, peace of mind, and an embracing community. (Says Firemaiden, guilty of the vainglorious pursuit of an opera career). -- You can't take the applause home to bed with you, is the star's lament.

Oh and about the masks, my honest suspicion, which I never revealed, is that the same figure of woman, the one with red hair is wearing different disguises (including the codpieces) throughout the deck - and finally revealing her true, naked self at the end, with the world card.

zagone

19-08-2003, 01:19

Spoonbender: Thanks for bringing up your new thoughts on this deck.

My take on the 5 of Pentacles has always been that the lady is a prostitute or a porn star (my sick mind at work I guess). In other words, I think that the card shows MORAL poverty. I also love Firemaiden’s comments on this card (“quest for fame and glory leaves one feeling empty”) – I’m incorporating them into my thinking on the card.

Galadrial had this to say about the 5 of Pentacles in a different thread regarding what this deck first showed when asked how it would work with Galadrial:

“Five of Pentacles and Hermit (heh, yes, this deck has shown me that Five of Pentacles several times- the one with the vain woman in the mink coat having her photograph taken. It lets me know when I'm becoming too wrapped up with worldly matters.)”

Galadrial’s take on this is rather similar to what we are all thinking. Also – two very interesting cards for how the deck will work with you – one card suggesting that appearances can be deceiving and shallow, and one suggesting that greater wisdom is needed with this deck through experience and meditation!
.
The masks theory is fascinating – Firemaiden now has me looking for the red haired woman in disguise throughout the deck! I’m keeping Spoonbender’s comments on the Hierophant in mind – I like that interpretation because it brings out both the rigid and nurturing sides of the card. I don’t know what to think on the masks – I’m genuinely confused. Some cards (like the Hierophant) argue well for a mask with a woman in drag. Others (like the Chariot) have very masculine hands despite the “disguise” characteristics of the cod piece and the possible mask. Then there is my theory that some of the men have mask-like stony faces from having lost some of their humanity through the “achievement” of too many of the characteristics associated with their card. I don’t know!

The Three of Pentacles is a good mask candidate – and yup, there’s some strangeness going on here… Well, I don’t have solid theories on this card, but… thinking real time… The Three of Pentacles is about the master craftsman at work and the Two of Pentacles is about the balance and allocation of resources. Here we have a woman balancing the pentacles in the Two card (usually done by a guy in most decks), and in the Three card we have two women again balancing two pentacles. Seems to extend a theme of this deck of the women being in control in some way… And what’s with the circles and smiley faces at the bottom of the Two and Three of Pentacles cards? Note that the guy (or gal?) in the Three of Pentacles and the Three of Swords seem to be the same person.

Looking in one of my books for the meaning to the “Lara Croft” card (5 of Swords) I see “temporary advance” or “situation may become humiliating”. Maybe she is overconfident? I note that she’s only drawn one sword, and left a sword and a pistol (?!) in her belt. For the 7 of Wands I see “effort and courage needed to face difficulties. Success thru effort.” Okay, this seems to match the picture shown.

Check out the 10 Pentacles versus the 6 Chalices cards. These cards seem to contain some of the only happy people in the entire deck. Both have to do with staying close to home and innocence. I think the guy in the Ten Pentacles is truly the only happy man! The women in these two cards share the same dress colors and I don’t see these dress colors elsewhere in the deck either. There is something strange about the woman in the 10 Pentacles card however… she looks awfully young for her white hair (wig?) and why the platform shoes or stilts under her skirt?

This deck has so many seeming patterns that never quite fall neatly into place so that you can believe them!!

-- Zagone

spoonbender

19-08-2003, 08:40

I'm embarrassed to say, I left my deck, (most of my decks) behind in my Berlin flat, and don't have it with me now, so I can't really do justice to your questions.
that really is too bad! I'd really like to hear your views on the cards--what you and zagone said about the 5 of Pentacles really does make a lot of sense!

Oh and about the masks, my honest suspicion, which I never revealed, is that the same figure of woman, the one with red hair is wearing different disguises (including the codpieces) throughout the deck - and finally revealing her true, naked self at the end, with the world card.
that's VERY interesting, firemaiden! she does seem to recognisably (is that a word?) appear a few times in the deck (6 of Cups for example, but younger of course)...

And what’s with the circles and smiley faces at the bottom of the Two and Three of Pentacles cards?
I wondered about that too, zagone! why are three smiling faces shown on the bottom of the 2 of Pentacles, and one sad face????
and why would the person on the Three of Pentacles be afraid to show his/her face? I really think that's a mask he's wearing, it even has a different colour than his neck... actually, his whole position seems quite static and woody! He's pointing to his artwork, is that where the key lies to understanding the image? Here (http://www.fly-net.com/marconizzoli/)'s a link to the image... once you get past the naked woman and click on "secret tarots", you should be able to see it... that way even people who don't have their deck with them, can share their views (hint, firemaiden, hint!)

thanks for your thoughts on the Five of Swords and the Seven of Wands, zagone, they make a lot more sense to me now!

oh, and about the 10 of Cups (http://www.tarotadvice.com/help-deckcardimage.asp?deckID=12&cardID=77), does the guy on this painting (http://artyzm.com/world/e/eyck/images/arnolfini.jpg) by Jan Van Eyck look familiar?

also, what are your views on the Three of Swords (http://www.wicce.com/segretipix.html)? why is that person in that barren landscape, yet so fully equipped? Hmm...

thanks again for your replies,
Spoonbender

zagone

19-08-2003, 11:03

The couple in the 10 of Cups and the 10 of Pentacles could be the same couple -- in 1st love, and then after establishing financial security as well as love.

The painting comparison is very interesting, but is better compared against the 10 of Pentacles. Check it out:

Painting: She is pregnant
10 Pent: She is not pregnant

Painting: Her shoes are off and she is shorter
10 Pent: Her shoes are on and may be platform shoes to make her taller than he is

Painting: He holds her hand
10 Pent: She holds his hand

The same little dog is at her feet in both pictures and the dog is staring directly at the viewer!!

In the painting, HE has the power. In the 10 Pentacles, SHE has the power in the relationship.

I'll look at the 3 of Swords later, but I think I remember some explanation on it in the booklet that came with the deck or in one of the online reviews.

-- Zagone

spoonbender

19-08-2003, 15:11

yeah I guess the painting would fit better with the 10 of Pentacles, put that wasn't really my point... I asked "does the GUY look familiar", because it's really obvious that that's where Marco Nizzoli got the costume-inspiration, I wanted to share that 'cause I thought it was pretty cool :D (I'm glad that M. Nizzoli replaced the woman, though! I don't find the Van Eyck-woman that attractive :))
the comparison you made is interesting though!

I'm looking forward to your thoughts on the Three of Swords! (everyone is more than welcome to join in!)

Spoonbender

Shade

19-08-2003, 16:50

I also thought about van Eyck's paintng as being part of the 10 of cups. As if this is what happens after happily ever after, this is the peaceful life that is really important even if we place emphasis on a single event. One thing about this card still has me a bit confused... why is the girl poking the turtle with a stick? And in other amphibian news why do the twins from the sun card have a frog? This has been my main reading deck for about 2 years and those two inclusions still hahahahahahve me stumped. I did like many of the other animal choices made especially the otter on Temperence sincee it is a creature that lives on land and water and findndndndndns ways to accomodate both planes.

The horse on the Death really affected me in readings. Just look at its expression. It came up once as the madness one can take on after being in a destructive environment for too long.

I thought that the three of swords was one of the best vevevrsions of this card in any deck. It has a sense of true hopelessness. His mission is doomed and he just has to decide whether or not to proceed. I think of it as a Garden of Gethsemene card at times.

Aun

19-08-2003, 19:07

Wow! what a beautiful artwork... right up my alley!
Not to mention that Italian is my favorite language...

Can someone tell me where to purchase this deck online?

Blessings,
Aun

firemaiden

19-08-2003, 23:32

Hey guys, yes!! very exciting with the painting! I sort of had the Van Eyck painting in my mind too, without realizing it, but when you mentioned Van Eyck, I knew right away that you meant that painting. Well, its the same hat, anyway. Would somebody be so kind as to scan the 10 of pentacles and post it?

What I see in the three of swords (thanks for the links) is a standard-bearer returning from war, though the snow-blanketted battlefield, (note the corpses in the snow), taking in the horror and the bleakness of it all. There is a background music to this scene, and it is necessarily Russian -- perhaps the Shostakovich 13th symphony which is all about death.

Dawn breaking at the horizon casts an eerie light, and a romantic sweetness to the horror. -- or -- is it the town burning below, with the villagers in it -- yet perhaps yet another Russian self immolation scene - villagers burning their own towns to avoid leaving them for the victor...

Compare this card, with its road, and scattered bones, the flames in the distance to the death card. And compare the Death card to the knight of pentacles! (Same fiery sky).

What is most interesting to me, is that the costume of the standard bearer in the 3 of swords, looks 1920's-ish - while Death, and the Knight (as well as the 10 of cups) look like they could date from van Eýck's time - (1390-1441). Perhaps our three of swords is a traveller from the present, and sensing the tragedy sewn centuries before.

Aun, check out www.tarotgarden.com

zagone

20-08-2003, 01:25

The man in the 10 of cups DOES look like the painting -- thanks for originally bringing this to our attention!

I'm afraid I don't have much intelligent to say on the 3 of Swords. I've never really connected with it. I appreciate the comments here because it now starts to make some sense.

For those who don't have access or have not seen the following sources, here are some other comments on the 3 of Swords:

The pamphlet with the deck (rather oddly) describes it as meaning "labor, uncertain evolution".

Marco Nizzoli's fantastic review of the deck ( http://www.spiritone.com/~filipas/Masquerade/Reviews/secrets.html ) spins the following story about the card:

"It has been three days riding for this adventurer. His travel to neighboring lands was cut short by the news he carries of a secret which he wished, perhaps, that he had never learned. He had hoped by now to have returned home to his lady-love, but now he must bring word of his news to the Queen. His bride waits patiently for his safe return, while she enjoys the fruit of the lives they have worked hard to establish. And he rides on in the hope that his success will mean her continued shelter."

Thanks,
Zagone

spoonbender

20-08-2003, 11:25

thanks for your insights on the Three of Swords guys, it's become much clearer to me now... Firemaiden, what you wrote was beautiful, what an atmosphere this card has! I also thought about the tragedy and pain being in the past, now being sensed by that traveller--it reminds me a bit of that thread about the 5 of Swords in the Fey Study Group (http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16318), what do you think?

ah, here's a link to the 10 of Pentacles (http://www.tarotadvice.com/help-deckcardimage.asp?deckID=12&cardID=47), Firemaiden! and that's one to the 2 of Pentacles (http://www.tarotadvice.com/help-deckcardimage.asp?deckID=12&cardID=39) (any thoughts on that one sad face on the bottom?), which was also brought up here, but I couldn't find a link then...
so what do you all think about the Three of Pentacles (http://www.tarotadvice.com/help-deckcardimage.asp?deckID=12&cardID=40)? something still seems kinda wrong... hmm... maybe the person is waiting for OUR approval of his artwork, and is afraid that we might not like it, and thát's why he's wearing a mask, afraid to open himself up... or maybe not! *sigh*

JohnnyVoodoo, about those amphibian questions (a turtle is a reptile by the way), I found some useful things in a book I have by Ted Andrews, it's a Dutch copy, so I've translated the following pieces back into English, sorry for mistakes:
this is what it says about amphibians in general (I don't know how accurate this book is though):
In mythology, amphibians often come forth as guardians of dreams (the element of water). [...] On a more psychological level, they can point to the necessity of learning to use our emotional energies (water) constructively (land).
this is what it says about frogs (link to the Sun card (http://www.tarotadvice.com/help-deckcardimage.asp?deckID=12&cardID=19)):
Like amphibians, links between land and water, they are often associated with the magic of both elements. They are also linked to the kingdom of fairies and elves. A lot of shamanic peoples – especially in North- and South-America – link frogs to rain and the control of weather. [...] They are seen as the messengers of abundance and fertility. Most likely because of their stage as tadpoles, which bring to mind spermatozoids. Rain also makes things grow. [...] The frog is also a symbol of metamorphosis. He symbolizes the development of the own innate creative force.
that makes sense, right?
now, for the turtles (link to the 10 of Cups (http://www.tarotadvice.com/help-deckcardimage.asp?deckID=12&cardID=77)):
In the Far East, the shield of a turtle was symbol of heaven and their square bottom was a symbol of earth. Their magic could help man unite heaven and earth in their own life. [...] On the count of their high age and slow metabolism, turtles have become associated with a long life and a bond with life on earth. [...] Turtles are omnivores, and as such, they can tell you to be attentive, because there are lots of opportunities. For the North-American Indians, the turtle was a symbol of Mother Earth, which reminded them that She gives us everything we need. When our lives have become chaotic, the turtle tells us to slow down, so we can see the opportunities around us.
that eastern belief about the shield of a turtle kinda resembles that rainbow from the RWS-image, doesn't it? a link between heaven and earth...

Aun, this really is a beautiful deck, with great depths, as you can see! as I bought my copy in a local bookstore, I don't really know where they sell it on line, but I think they have it on a lot of sites though... good luck!

Thanks,
Spoonbender

firemaiden

20-08-2003, 12:02

Ah yes, the ten of pentacles, thanks for the links! Yes, there is something very dutch, certainly reminds me of van Eyck's time. Perhaps the idea was to convey a sort of fairy tale atmosphere in a vague northern (relative to Italy) realm, though not necessarily dutch.

I just read Johny Voodoo's posts on the 5 of swords fey card, and found them breathtakingly beautiful and oh so pertinant here. I loved reading the poem quoted too -- Ozymandias. But now, can you please enlighten me, what is the Garden of Gethsemene ?

I don't really know what to make of the two of pentacles. -- an androygenous youth juggling two balls hmmmm, looking rather off-center and balanced on a ledge -- behind him is steep drop, with the castle in the distance -- he is like the fool in reverse -- perhaps more foolish, for not looking in the direction of the drop. Add this to the three smiley faces and one not smiley, and the equation comes up as quite a precarious balance -- and headed for dramatic disruption!

spoonbender

20-08-2003, 18:12

"Gethsemane, from the Greek word pronounced geth-say-man-ay, meaning oil press, was the name given to an olive orchard at the foot of The Mount Of Olives. It seems to have been one of the favorite places that Jesus Christ visited, and was the scene of one of the most dramatic events of Bible History on The Fateful Night before the Crucifixion."

firemaiden

20-08-2003, 19:49

About the three of pentacles, I'd say the person is restoring a Roman wall painting. Normally this card is three people cooperating in a craft, right? Where are the other two? Maybe they are back a couple milleniae earlier.

There is also a way in which this card reflects the lovers card - the choice -- two naked women, which one do you like better?

spoonbender

21-08-2003, 18:36

thanks for your replies, firemaiden
some thoughts on the Three of Pentacles:

Maybe the person has worked so hard on this project, that part of him “remains” there, that he has lost part of himself in the project? He has totally devoted himself, and now that it’s finished, maybe he doesn’t really know how to react and what to do next? That would explain why he looks so uneasy. And the work here does seem to be over, doesn’t it?
Or perhaps he’s just nervous about the reactions he might get from others; the “important meetings, commission for a piece of work” seem to point to that too. He may me presenting his work to us, or people out of our sight (he is pointing at the fresco, isn't he?). Kinda like the Three of Pentacles (http://www.llewellyn.com/tarot/images/ws_threepentacles.jpg) in the World Spirit Tarot, in a way... This sure would be an interesting card for a ‘New Vision Deck’, huh?
The mask and the woody, static expression might also show that to achieve success and recognition, this person has had to give up spontaneity and recklessness (something you would expect more in the Nine, but this seems to fit). Maybe the mask just shows that he has given (is giving) himself so completely to this work, that he now has become the same substance??
Also, the idea of balance seems to be taken further in this card (the figure has 2 pencils, there are 2 women on the fresco, who are each balancing 2 Pentacles with 2 fingers, and on the bottom of the card appear al those symbols, who also appear to show balance). Perhaps this card shows the kind of balance that’s needed to work hard and commit yourself? ...
hm... I hope this has made sense! what do you think? any feedback?
I also really like the idea of the other people being way back in the past! oh, maybe he's in trance, and the spirits of the ancients take him over, guiding him to restore their work... or maybe I need to get some sleep...

what do you think of the King of Pentacles (http://www.tarotadvice.com/help-deckcardimage.asp?deckID=12&cardID=25)? he looks so sneaky and shady! and his sword is so obviously there (much more so than on the King of Wands and King of Cups)! it seems that he's not afraid to use his sword to his advantage! not at all like the usual King, kind and generous
and what do you think of the 8 of Pentacles (http://www.tarotadvice.com/help-deckcardimage.asp?deckID=12&cardID=45)? the image and symbolism don't exactly "click" right away, although I like it!

thanks, (I really hope someone will reply!)
Spoonbender (who is going right to bed now)

firemaiden

21-08-2003, 18:50

I think the 8 of pentacles is a mad professor constructing a time machine out of a Ford Edsel. This is the obviously the same time machine that the 3 of swords traveler used to get from the 1920's to the medieval period.

As for the King of Pentacles, I don't like him. He looks too locked up. I were his Queen, I wouldn't trust him, and I'd have an affair with the knight.

zagone

21-08-2003, 22:00

The King of Pentacles is one of the cards I am MOST thinking of when I put forward the theory of faces looking like masks because the participant has lost his humanity in becoming his archetype (a rather negative version of it at least).

I see the King of Pentacles as the ultimate mercenary merchant. He will plot anything for more gold. All he loves is gold and the game of scheming to get it. This King rules wealth and love of money and perhaps scheming ambition -- and none of the usual positive Pentacles traits.

-- Zagone

zagone

21-08-2003, 22:16

Your interpretation of the Three of Pentacles as becoming lost in or a part of his craft seems possible and is a good theory on what the card is trying to convey.

In some decks the Three of Pentacles is the master craftsman at work while the Eight of Pentacles is the apprentice or someone who is learning new things. In this deck we see an evilly glowing machine. Its easy to compare it with a cremation oven (someone did a while back), though I can't prove that's what's meant. The guy (also dehumanized) is cranking out copies on his machine. Perhaps the master was at work in the Three while here the worst of the "apprentice" is shown by cranking out cheap machine-age ripoffs instead of doing them by hand. Certainly all learning has been cut off -- he (and those he comes in contact with) are doomed to a machine copy that is impersonal, uninspiring, and won't continue life's learning process.

The Eight of Pentacles is one of relatively few modern (1920s-1930s) cards in the deck. Curious that it is best compared with the Three of Pentacles -- whose main character has a modern 1920s look to him also when he appears in the Three of Swords. Hmmm... the beauties of the past ruined by war and industry? Don't know...

The unsatisfying thing about this deck IMHO is that I/we can come up with all sorts of thoughtful, rather clever stories but that, unlike other decks, they never seem to fall into a coherent picture. With the Hudes deck, I go on similiar flights of thought but in the end I am MUCH more sure of my results because they hold together better across multiple cards.

-- Zagone

spoonbender

24-08-2003, 14:47

As for the King of Pentacles, I don't like him. He looks too locked up. I were his Queen, I wouldn't trust him, and I'd have an affair with the knight.
LOL! :D

The unsatisfying thing about this deck IMHO is that I/we can come up with all sorts of thoughtful, rather clever stories but that, unlike other decks, they never seem to fall into a coherent picture. With the Hudes deck, I go on similiar flights of thought but in the end I am MUCH more sure of my results because they hold together better across multiple cards.
well, I guess that's why this deck is called the Secret Tarots! but I think that's what makes this deck cool, it really makes you think! I for one do think we've explained some cards here, cards that make a lot more sense to me now! it's too bad though that you and firemaiden seem to be the only ones here who want to participate in this thread (thanks for that!)...

just one more question! what is up with the Wheel (http://www.tarotadvice.com/help-deckcardimage.asp?deckID=12&cardID=10)? why are there two monkeys and only one dog? it's strange, I don't think I've ever seen this kind of image before, but it still looks familiar...
any thoughts? please?

Spoonbender

firemaiden

24-08-2003, 17:18

Originally posted by spoonbender
... it's strange, I don't think I've ever seen this kind of image before, but it still looks familiar... any thoughts? please?
Spoonbender, HAHAHAHAHAHAH. (oh, le pauvre!) you are going to feel a bit foolish.

First, compare it to this!! surprise... (http://www.tarotforum.net/attachment.php?s=&postid=43102)

and then read this entire thread (http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4515&perpage=10&pagenumber=1) which has also many, many more attachments like the one above. :D :D :D

spoonbender

24-08-2003, 17:49

damn, that was tremendously stupid of me! djeez, I’ve turned all red! ok, I’m definitely buying the Marseilles Tarot now—I don't have it yet (well that should come as a surprise, huh?)... well, at least I know what the image means now, right--right? and at least it looked familiar, right? and we all learn from mistakes, right? sniff *now where have I left my suicide-kit?*

BTW: firemaiden, first time someone I don't even know laughs at me

firemaiden

24-08-2003, 19:43

It's okay, Spoonbender, you are so cute when you feel embarrassed. (Its only embarrassing for Belgium. :D) I bet 90% of the folks on this site wouldn't recognise the image either. :D

That's just another one of the big secrets of this deck! You see, it is pretty faithful to the Rider-Waite in a lot of ways, but in a few exceptions, (the Empress is another exception) the card is directly inspired by the Marseilles. I was very excited when I realized that.

So here, have a spoonful of macademia-nut icecream, and cool down, while you have a look at some of the other Marseilles threads. (See the empress). And be careful not to bend the spoon before you swallow the icecream!

Osher

19-03-2004, 20:45

Has it really been a year? I'm embaressed to say my Secret tarot is in storage, but it made a major impact.

Reflecting on the 3 swords, and thinking of the TotOP, I think that the card reflects the idea of sorrow very well. It's not anger, it not an action, it is an inaction. The rider is looking at the ruination brought by the conflict in the 2 of swords.

Why the symbolism of the flag though? I think it is show that it is a sorrow of a side, not sorrow generally.

Anyway, I am so glad that others love this deck. I am tempted now to hunt through my stuff and find this beautiful and deep deck again.

Centaur

19-03-2004, 20:57

I think you should dig it out Happiness! I love this deck. A very kind friend sent it me at the beginning of the year, and I have to say that the images are very mesmerising and dark. Just the way I like 'em!

C

lunakasha

19-03-2004, 21:12

OMG....

I almost forgot about this one....I WANT IT!!!!

I need to keep re-checking my (endless) wishlist, because I forget sometimes about wonderful, quiet little decks like this one!

Yes, this may be next on my "must-buy" list.....

Thanks for the reminder, Centaur!

:D Luna

BlueLotus

19-03-2004, 23:55

Originally posted by Happiness
Anyway, I am so glad that others love this deck. I am tempted now to hunt through my stuff and find this beautiful and deep deck again.

I have recently taken this deck out and started reading with it .

It is a very honest deck and one won't miss the meanings of the cards, even though the LWB barely gives much interpretation for each card .

I drew the *4 of pentacles * , and wonder why the pondering man in this image looks so serious, and maybe a bit unhappy, when he is supposed to feel good. :confused:

mj07

20-03-2004, 00:11

oooh, nice thread! glad to see someone resurrected it since (if Amazon ever gets its act together) this deck will be on its way to me any day now!

13thFaeChylde

20-03-2004, 09:25

This has been on my wishlist for a while now, and will be the next one I purchase thanks to this thread!

I was this close () to getting it at a book-faire a few weeks ago, but went with Tarot of the Hidden Folk instead.

Myrrha

21-03-2004, 16:56

The Two of swords in this deck is one of my favorites. Because the card is so dark and the scene is lit only by moonlight it is difficult to tell at first that the rock the woman sits on is on land and the other rocks behind her are protruding from water. Sometimes it looks like all land and sometimes it looks like all water (especially if you read by candle light which makes all kinds of visual things happen with this deck).

The twos are connected with the High Priestess and this card seems to be about sources of knowledge. The deep feelings shown by the dark water are needed to break the impasse that intellect alone can leave you with (the swords). The woman has had to take off her clothes (defenses, disguises) in order to gain this feeling-knowledge. This makes more sense to me than the blindfolded figure in the Rider Waite, although the blindfold could also be seen as a sign that the person is looking within.

When I first got this deck I wanted to trade it away again, since then it has really grown on me!

--Myrrha

Darla

23-03-2004, 10:24

This deck has been on top of my wishlist forever! Haven't been to AT for about 3 weeks and when I'm looking again my two most wanted decks (Secret and Shapeshifter) are discussed!
GOTTA ... BE ... STRONG! ;)

alizarin

23-03-2004, 12:02

I love this deck, it has such a moody ethereal quality.

I read with it primarily for myself, and it's quite insightful. The Hermit card is probably my favorite Hermit, ever.

rahnefan

06-03-2006, 09:59

lunakasha

06-03-2006, 10:24

If I ever get a 2nd deck, this one might be it. Hope this isn't rude, but can anyone save me from searching 8 pages here and just tell me about the quality of the cardstock? Will it hold up under riffling a lot?

Hello rahnefan!

This is one of my favorite decks, very readable, kinda mysterious.....

The cardstock is excellent....sturdy but not too thick, comparable to most LoScarabeo decks. I think you could riffle them with no problem....

:) Luna

rahnefan

06-03-2006, 10:50

Hello rahnefan!
This is one of my favorite decks, very readable, kinda mysterious.....
The cardstock is excellent....sturdy but not too thick, comparable to most LoScarabeo decks. I think you could riffle them with no problem....
:) Luna

They are indeed mysterious looking, and beautiful. Love that artist, whoever he or she is. Thanks Luna!

Tree Sprite

19-04-2006, 08:16

Hello all - I just got my deck & I love it - so cool and sophisticated in a dark subterranean nightclub kinda way. Thank you all for your thoughts, and here are some of mine....

I must admit I didn't like the 5 pentacles at first glance, but after reading some of your thoughts and taking another look, I like that idea of moral poverty and all the things you desire but can't get - the overfed & dowdy photographer in the intimate setting of taking a photograph of the emaciated model. He can eat, but can't be desirable because of it - she is desirable, but can't eat to remain so. As intimate as the situation is, he can't aspire to emotional intimacy with her, but captures her image for the vacarious desires of the faceless public to consume celebrity. She looks vulnerable and untouchable at the same time, and don't start me on that whole thing about body image and public image...and poverty of the soul.

On a happier note, the King of Cups looks exactly that - he's had a bender of a night on his stash of cups and is slumped in his throne regretting it..when I looked at this one a bit closer, it yelled 'party animal' at me - and not nearly as stern as those other kings. In fact, I think he's looking at his cup wondering if he should go a 'hair of the dog' to feel better, or if it send him over the edge....

And I'm loving that weird green guy on the 8 wands- he's a superhero action figure who just keeps pumping until the batteries go.

catlin

19-04-2006, 08:34

A couple of days ago I pulled out my copy of the Secret tarot and was pondering about "breaking it in" as a regular reading deck.

rahnefan

19-04-2006, 11:22

I got mine a couple of weeks ago but have used it for only a few readings. Mainly because I am trying to be a good newbie and get more acquainted with my first deck before moving on...but I was weak and could not resist this deck! :(

aja

19-04-2006, 13:17

I have the mini version of this deck as my "carry around" deck. It's quite wonderful and I've gotten some very good readings with it. The symbolism is good to work with and works very well with intuative/semi-intuative readings as well.

Actually, I'm rather regretting getting this as my mini - the size really don't do the artwork justice. (no, I don't need another excuse to get another deck!)

rahnefan

19-04-2006, 13:37

Kinda thin though...I wonder how long it will stand the riffling I put it through. I shuffle all the time, whether reading or not.

catlin

21-04-2006, 08:13

rahnefan, LS decks usually are very good material, even for heavy raffling.

Bean Feasa

21-04-2006, 12:20

I trimmed my (fullsize) Secret Tarots and the results are stunning!!! The whole dark world of these cards seems much more vivid without the borders and titles. It also gives a nice small-sized deck without actually buying the mini. I'd recommend it. If I can get to grips with my (new) scanner over the weekend, I'll post some scans.

rahnefan

21-04-2006, 13:34

rahnefan, LS decks usually are very good material, even for heavy raffling.

Yes, I don't mean to knock it. For some reason my RW deck felt thicker but now I wonder. It could be that with the Secret Tarots I am afraid of damaging the beautiful art while with the RW I actually look forward to it having a more weathered look. :)

Cerulean

21-04-2006, 20:45

...as the colors are very beautifully, thickly rich and the scenes to me have the beauty of an operatic or theatrical setting...mystery and delicacy in this deck...I have the mini and have downloaded the free pdf from Lo Scarabeo that gives the story...it really enhances my thoughts.

I like the idea of a version that would be larger, without borders. Maybe there would be first a majors only, then a full deck? I'd really like a book with the text expanded...although it's good enough to work on vivid characters--from what I see of the Mark Filipas review that inspired me to buy this deck long ago.

Regards,

Cerulean

Tree Sprite

26-04-2006, 23:30

I had to sleep on this one, because my thick conscious brain struggled to come to terms with it - but of course my unconscious had an idea...and it's all about collaboration.

He is a young, talented and extremely myopic artist - to the point of blindness. His talent guides him to create beautiful art intuitively, but he can't see the total result because of his visual imparement. He is commissioned to create a work for a wealthy benefactor, and as he finishes and presents his work, his benefactor provides a verbal description of what he/she sees, allowing him to finally appreciate his own talent. The commission feeds and cloths him, the benefactor has the benefit of his talent, and together they have created and appreciated something they could not do on their own. Not unsympathetic perhaps with the general interpretation of threes as cards of growth and progress? There's something more behind him in the images he has created, but I need another good night's sleep.....

Bean Feasa

20-05-2006, 13:01

Further up this thread I promised scans of the trimmed cards. Having spent most of this afternoon wrestling with the scanner and with image size etc., this is an experimental post to see if I can manage to attach a scan.
Here goes...

Bean Feasa

20-05-2006, 13:04

Wow, it worked!!
Here are a few more. Makes me wonder if all Lo Scarabeo decks shouldn't be trimmed. Perdone, Riccardo!

firemaiden

20-05-2006, 13:59

What I learn from your scans, is how nice it is when the cards are bigger. Twice as large is nice. I prefer borders myself, but I love seeing the artwork magnified as it is in these scans. Some of the paintings in this deck (like that Moon card) are really splendid, aren't they.

Bean Feasa

20-05-2006, 14:05

Yes I agree, firemaiden, the Moon is amazing in this deck. Overall I love the style of the artwork and the incredible atmosphere of these cards. Reading with them takes a bit of patience and contemplation, I find, but it's well worth it.

bleuivy

20-05-2006, 23:31

Wow - Thanks so much for posting those scans, Bean Feasa. The cards really do look moodier, darker in some way, without those borders.

This deck was one of my first tarot loves, but I traded it away after I felt I couldn't do anything more with it. (I kept my mini, though.) Now I'm wondering if I should order a new larger copy and pull out my trimming supplies. I had forgotten how evocative some of those cards were.

Bean Feasa

21-05-2006, 05:47

... Now I'm wondering if I should order a new larger copy and pull out my trimming supplies...

}) Go on bleuivy, you know you want to...!

Actually, just glancing at the scans again, I realise the edges look a bit notchy, but that's because the images are magnified. It's not noticeable at all in reality. The trimming makes the deck a really handy size, and I made a snug little drawstring pouch in a dark brown shot-silk type of material. I think this is the deck I'll be taking on holidays with me.

bleuivy

21-05-2006, 08:47

I've already trimmed a LS deck (the Crystal) and so I have a pretty good idea what size the cards are. The reason I didn't trim the Secret before (because, oh yes indeedy, I considered it) is because I thought there would be some difficulty differentiating the higher-number cards. The 10 of Wands, for example, vs. the 9 of Wands. I thought I would end up counting the wands to find out how many there were in the individual card, if you see what I mean.

How do you find reading with the deck? Do you end up ever confused as to which card you've turned up?

Bean Feasa

21-05-2006, 09:40

Yes I do know what you mean, and I admit I do have to stop and count to differentiate some of the cards. But I'm hoping that will change as I get to know the deck better. To me, it's the kind of deck that gives pause anyway -not a quick read type at all. So if I'm reading with it I just make sure I have plenty of time, and I take it slowly.

bleuivy

21-05-2006, 09:57

Thanks for the info about the cards. You're right. Once you get to know the deck better, you probably won't have to count any more anyway.

To me, it's the kind of deck that gives pause anyway -not a quick read type at all. So if I'm reading with it I just make sure I have plenty of time, and I take it slowly.

This is a very good point. It is a deck to ponder, mull over. Take your time and see what comes. So perhaps trimming it would be that much more incentive to do just that: take more time with a reading with this deck.

I have to say, you've certainly made me want to go out and get this deck again with the express purpose of trimming it. I wish there was a book to go with it. This deck has always seemed to cry out to me for a book by the artist, sort of like the Fey. Oh well! It's such an evocative deck I don't suppose it needs one.