View Full Version : Tarot for Yourself - Celtic Cross & permutations
These are chapters 4 and 6 in the book, I thought it would be easiest to put them together as they both are about the CC.
You can use yourself as guineapig, or grab someone else. I will try both.....
Kaz
I have done the permutations and they are really really helpful. This exercise, if we are going to go through all of them, is time consuming but well worth it! I did all of the permutations on the same reading, and it was interesting that when I did the original CC I was a bit confused by the reading but by time I did the last permutation it all made perfect sense. I will try and post my stuff tomorrow.
Also note which permutation(s) you liked best when you worked through them. It will be interesting to see how we each feel about these. Chapter 6 also goes through the expanded 3 card reading ... I think we should leave that for another post.
Maybe I will do a new CC and permutations using the Cosmic Tribe ~giggles~ ... as you can tell Bec and Kaz I am loving my new deck :)
Love & Light,
I will follow what is described in chapter 4 first, that's lay out 10 cards face down, turn over the first one, write down my keywords for it, and relate that to the position, then go to the next.
So, yes this will be time consuming, but you need something to keep you from the street :-) .
Kaz
*ROFLMAO* Kaz you crack me up :D
Question: What do I need to do to increase my understanding of teh Tarot?
Deck: Robin Wood
1. Cover/Basic Influence - King of Wands
2. Crossing - Knight of Wands
3. Basis - Death
4. Recent Past - Queen of Pentacles
5. Possible Outcome - 10 of Cups
6. Near Future - 10 of Wands
7. Self - Devil (reversed)
8. Environment - 8 of Cups (reversed)
9. Hopes & Fears - World (reversed)
10. Outcome - Ace of Cups (reversed)
I must admit ... I was confused about this spread until I completed the 4 permutations.
My interpretation of this spread: I am covered by the King of Wands (my inner teacher card!) showing that I have strong will to achieve my goal of increasing my understanding of the Tarot. I am positive and optimistic.
I am crossed by the Knight of Wands indicating that I am extremely active and eager in my pursuit of understanding but at times maybe too much so and I loose focus (i.e. deck switching, reading 3 books at once, etc); at times I am a bit extremist.
My basis is the Devil card which to me represents that I am in a period of transition. I am following through with my commitment to the Tarot which in turn is transforming me, the way I think and relate to things. This transformation is currently under way.
The Queen of Pentacles graces my recent past where self-awareness and finding my spiritual relationship to nature was nurtured and has allowed me to bring this connection with me into my studies. By that I mean it has shown me that there is "more out there" and boosted my confidence.
My possible outcome is the 10 of Pentacles which is a gate card. As I realized the magic of the world in my self-awareness trip through the Queen of Pentacles here I could potentially become in tune with the everyday magic of all aspects of life. I have the potential to see the world with a different set of eyes or perspective.
The 10 of Wands indicates that in the near future I will feel burdened in my studies. Mainly due to other responsibilities that will be pulling me in different directions. I need to ensure these burdens are real and not use them as excuses if I really want to achieve my goal.
The Devil reversed is in the self position. I relate this card to indicate that I am moving towards liberation and pursuing something that is important to me instead of focusing on doing the things that are expected of me.
My environment shows the 8 of cups reversed. To me this card represents that I will continue to receive joy and emotional fulfillment through my studies of the Tarot. It also shows again my determination to hang on as indicated by my will in the King of Wands (position 1) and in my eagerness shown in the Knight of wands (position 2).
My hopes and fears were expressed by the World reversed. Although I winced at first I realized that it was a clear indication of my fears. That my learning will stagnate and that there will be point where my studies and understanding of the Tarot will stop all together. Looking closer, what I saw was that I fear having so many other responsibilities that I will not have time to continue my studies on the Tarot which are very important to me personally, spiritually and emotionally.
The outcome, strongest influence was the Ace of Cups reversed. Again my heart sank when I saw this card. This is the card that took me 4 permutations to trully understand. Then as I thought about it I looked at my potential outcome card the 10 of Pentacles (Position 5). Looking at these cards in conjunction with my hopes and fears card (World reversed) I saw that each was an outcome contingent on how I dealt with these. The first test of overcoming my fears was the outcome card. It was also a test to see how much understanding of the Tarot I have gained thus far. A pop quiz.
Maybe I am delusional but that is how I have interpreted this reading. Permutations to follow.
Permutation #1 - The Turning Wheel
Cards used from above spread:
3. Basis - Death
4. Recent Past - Queen of Pentacles
5. Possible Outcome - 10 of Pentacles
6. Near Future - 10 of Wands
In the Present (Origianl positions of cards):
IDEA/IDEAL (#5-10 of Pentacles): That I will discover more of the mangic in the every day world through my increased understanding of the Tarot.
ACTION ASSERTION (#6-10 of Wands): In order to achieve my ideal I need to focus on the ideal vs. trying to be so academic about the Tarot and over burdening myself with insecurity in my intuition.
HABIT/INTUITION (#4-Death): I need to let the transition occurr and clear away old habits of procrastination and self-doubt to allow new creativity to emerge.
LETTING GO/RECEPTIVITY (Queen of Pentacles): I need to be self-aware and believe in myself in order to open the learning channels.
ORIGINAL POSITION (Present Scenario): The ideal is to be able to recognize and realize that there is magic in the world around me. I am working hard to learn and understand the Tarot to support this ideal. My intuition tells me there is new creativity emerging as a result of my efforts, and that I will undergo a transformation that will make me more receptive to my own personal magic and abilities with the Tarot.
FIRST ROTATION (Past Scenario): The ideal was to belive in myself and in my abilities to understand the Tarot. The keys self-awareness and belief in my own personal magic. This self-awareness and belief was to be achieved through acceptance that there is magic in the everyday world and I am part of the everyday world and its magic. I needed to realize that although studying is necessary that I did not need to get bogged down in it and loose the esence of tarot. I needed to accept the transformation freely ... going with the flow.
SECOND ROTATION (Subconscious Scenario): The ideal is the acceptance of my transformation of attitudes and allow the new creativity to emerge. This can be done by becoming self-aware and accepting my own personal magic. Doing this will put me in harmony with my intuitive sense that there really is magic in the world. What I need to do in order to be receptive is to realize that there is such a thing as working too hard at something that not require it ... learn to let go.
THIRD ROTATION (Future Scenario): The ideal is that all of the hard work and study I invest in the Tarot will pay off. Transformation (increased understanding and skills) will result from these efforts and new creativity will emerge. By creating a habit of being self-aware and knowing that I possess personal magic I will support my ideal and action and become more receptive to the magic in the world around me.
Second Permutation - Past, Present, Future
GROUP 1 - THE PAST: (#4 Queen of Pentacles, #9 The World, #3 Death)
In the past I have been unaware of myself and of my own personal magic. I have been clouded by self-doubt and lack of realization of my own potential. Yet I draw on the fact that I am a good student and can succeed. This gives me the ability to let transformation occurr.
GROUP 2 - THE PRESENT: (#7 Devil, #8 8 of Cups, #1 King of Wands, #2 Knight of Wands)
I am obsessed with clearly understanding the Tarot, but am torn by self doubt which is creating limitation for myself. Because of this I am retreating, not sure of how to proceed in order to increase my understanding of the Tarot. I deal with the situation by imposing my strong will and remaining optimistic. My eagerness and enthusiam keep me moving forward.
GROUP III - FUTURE: (#10 Ace of Cups, #6 10 of Wands, #5 10 of Pentacles)
My future expression of understanding the Tarot will result from an opening of my psychic abilities, which will be the outcome of the hard work and study I am putting into the Tarot. Upon realizing my aachievement I will gain a new sense of richness in my life.
Third Permutation - The Whole Person Summary
3 Wands - 10, Knight, King
2 Cups - Ace & 8
0 Swords
2 Pentacles - 10, Queen
3 Major Arcana - Death, Devil, World
WANDS: I am initiating a seirous study of the Tarot guided by my intuition (King), using my enthusiam and eagerness (Knight)in order to persever (10)
CUPS:
Jewel (24 Jan, 2002 04:00):
Third Permutation - The Whole Person Summary
3 Wands - 10, Knight, King
2 Cups - Ace & 8
0 Swords
2 Pentacles - 10, Queen
3 Major Arcana - Death, Devil, World
WANDS: I am initiating a seirous study of the Tarot guided by my intuition (King), using my enthusiam and eagerness (Knight)in order to persever (10)
CUPS:
Hmmm .... not sure what happened there ... okies to go on.
CUPS: My current understanding of the Tarot is limited by my uncertainty on how to best increase it or how to go about it (8). However, I am beginning to sense an opening of my psychic sensen the more I study (ace). In addition, the lack of swords or rational thinking is healping to open my psychic senses.
PENTACLES: I am focusing my Tarot study through accepted methods (recognized and well thought of books) (10) and using my critical mind and intelligence to remain grounded (queen).
MAJOR ARCANA: The archtypal forces I am dealing with are self-doubt and creating barriers for myself (Devil), realizing that I have infinite potential (World), and transformation of self (i.e. perceptions, way of thinking) (Death) resulting from my acceptance of personal infinite potential (World) to increase my understanding of the Taort. I need to develop my self-confidence regarding my abilities as indicated by the Devil, and allow the transformation to ocurr (Death) and accept my infinite potential.
Permutation 4 - Yod He Vau He - The Path of Hermes
Card 1 (King of Wands) in the first triangle (YOD) that begins my cycle of actions shows me confident in my ability to increase my understanding of the Tarot by allowing myself to be guided by my intuition.
In Card 2 (Knight of Wands), I react against that by letting my enthusiasm to hurry up my learning and not stay focused. Action, action, action ...
By allowing the learning process to occur at a natural pace, while retaining my enthusiasm, the transformation in my level of understanding will occur as indicated by Card 3 (Death). I can regain focus to increase understanding.
In Card 4 (Queen of Pentacles), the first card of the second opposing triangle (HE known as the begging of opposition), I see that I need to quit trying to channel all sensory information into practical knowledge. I need to allow myself to feel it and become one with it as the Queen of Pentacles is with nature.
The opposition to the opposition, Card 5 (10 of Pentacles) suggests that I believe that by increasing my understanding of the Tarot that I might think I am increasing my abilities to better see the magic of the world around me.
To integrate the opposing forces, Card 6 (10 of Wands), I need to persevere with my studies and not overburden myself with expectations. Need to stay grounded.
The beggining of integration, Card 7 (Devil), the first card fo the third triangle(VAU) shows that I need to overcome my lack of confidence and self-doubt, thus eliminate barriers to my increased understanding of the Tarot that I erect, and which block my psychic senses.
Integration is opposed, Card 8 (8 of Cups), by my wanting to retreat to solely focus on my learning, and the frustration of it taking so long. I need to not retreat from people or other activities I enjoy or it will only increase and breed frustraion (burdens ... 10 of wands).
To integrate the integration, Card 9 (World), I must realize and believe in my own infinite potential to learn and dance around the barriers I set for myself.
The new cycle, Card 10 (Ace of Cups) can commence a new set, a new possibility with the opening of my psychic senses and new receptivity due to the opening of my unconscious channels.
-------
WHEW!!! I am tired *LOL*. Anyways ... of the 4 permutations I prefer #2 and #4. The first permutation seemed to totally disregard cards 1,2 and 7-10. So it felt like it was missing something to me. Permutation 3 was OK but gained more through permutations 2 and 4. Somehow they felt more complete.
Can't wait to see what you guys come up with, and to hear which permutations you liked best.
Love & Light,
Well, you have to wait a bit for mine, it's a lot of work. I''ll post in parts I think.....
Kaz
This is a follow up on the 3 card spread done in the other exercise.
Question: What do I need to know concerning the inner conflict I have?
Deck: Robin Wood
Cards: for lay-out see here http://home.hccnet.nl/k.van.rijn/Celtic_Cross.htm
1) 6 of Wands ®
2) 4 of Cups ®
3) Judgement ®
4) 9 of Wands ®
5) Justice
6) King of Wands ®
7) King of Pentacles ®
8 ) Devil ®
9) Queen of Cups
10) 5 of Swords
7 reversed cards out of 10.
3 Majors, 3 Courts, 4 Minors.
4 Fire, 2 Air, 2 water, 2 Earth.
OK , I haven't had that much reversed cards in my life in one spread before....unfamiliar situations coming up for me. Also a Fire dominated spread.
1&2:
The 6 of Wands ® tells me I am afraid I won't get what I aim at, and my expectations stand in the way of being realistic about it.
The 4 of Cups ® shows that I am at least getting aware of some of it now, hello wake up......
3:
The basis of this situation is reflected by Judgement ®, me not knowing how to go about on things that I think I need to change, hence blocking me in making decisions and even causes avoidance/evasive behaviour.
4:
This is being emphasized by 9 of Wands ®, the way I normally tackle problems won't work this time, this calls for a different approach.
5:
What I am aware of and probably is the key to this inner struggle is represented by Justice. I need to find a balance between what I think I "should" and what I äm" and need.
6:
The future is the King of Wands ®, being a bit nicer to myself and be more understanding about my own needs.
7:
I see myself as the King of Pentacles ®, I somehow lost connection with myself and that doesn't make me very happy.
8:
The environment is represented by the Devil ®, others see me struggle and trying to break loose from the tension created by this conflict.
9:
Hopes and Fears is the Queen of Cups. I hope I can do what it takes to get my thinking in line with my feelings, on the other hand I know feelings are a hard thing to deal with for me, so I am afraid this might take the rest of my life.
10:
The result of all this is 5 of Swords, which leaves me with being the one getting a result, but at what costs and looks like I won't be happy with it.
Dunno about this card, this is what it tells me now, but maybe permutations clarify it.
Kaz
Hmmm, some posts have disappeared from this thread.
Please repost them if they were important.
Kaz
Deck: deck of playing cards
Date: 03-03-2002
Spread: Celtic Cross
Cards and positions:
[list=1] Situation: 8 of Hearts
Situation: Ace of Diamonds
Reason, basis, root: Jack of Clubs
Past: 9 of Clubs
Goals: 10 of Hearts
Future: Ace of Hearts
How you see yourself in this situation: Queen of Clubs
Environment: 3 of Diamonds
Hopes & Fears: 6 of Spades
Outcome: 9 of Diamonds[/list=1]
What I see here is you wanting to leave this situation behind you, and moving on to put your energy into better things. It looks like you are willing to make a sacrifice to make this happen smoothly. As this situation deals with a bussiness lawsuit, this sacrifice is probably money, and maybe some pride. (8 of Hearts).
This is opposed by the factor time. Although this card indicates new beginnings and starting with a clean sheet, it is an earth element and therefore a slow mover. Meaning, seeds have been planted and harvest-time will come, but it takes time to develop and grow. It indicates the potential for a stable, comfortable situation in the future, so patience is required. (Ace of Diamonds).
The reason for this situation in the here and now can be found in the Jack of Clubs. I see this card representing your employees, as it indicates someone immature with no commitment to anything but themselves. This attitude can lead to destructive type of actions and being stubborn and tenacious in dealing with the following consequences.
From the past you have plenty experiences of succesfully fighting for and defending what you have attained. This card also indicates the long struggle will come to an end, but it's not over yet, there are still some obstacles on your way. Though you will succeed in taking them, it will leave you feeling weary at times. (9 of Clubs).
Your goal looks like a bussiness situation within a supportive network, where there is stability and a good atmosphere for everybody to work in, so people and projects can grow and blossom. A constructive and positive environment. (10 of Hearts).
The future shows you dealing with your emotions about this lawsuit, being frustrated about the whole thing, but also preparing to take steps forward and forgetting about it. The end of emotionally dealing with this affair will bring you a sense of freedom again, and happiness that it finally has been done with, though it might still run in court. (Ace of Hearts).
You see yourself having ambitions and goals, being passionate about your bussiness, and very self-determined. As you have a leadership position you have a considerate amount of power. If external factors try to screw up your bussiness you rightfully react as a lion defending her cubs. (Queen of Clubs).
Your environment indicates one of teamwork, supporting you in all possible ways. Here you also find succesfully passing this experience and finishing it off, in this there will be something you might consider as a valuable thing having learned. (3 of Diamonds).
Hopes and fears indicate your hope/desire for a smooth wrap-up of this lawsuit, fears are probably found in the time it's gonna take to get this thing over with, and the drain it puts on your energies. (6 of Spades).
The outcome shows you can rely on yourself dealing with it the way you are, in time your efforts will pay off, and although you might have to sacrifice something, you will be content and satisfied with the result. (9 of Diamonds).
Kaz
Definetly can't loose this thread as we have a new member.
sarahenglish
26-03-2002, 23:23
Not to worry Jewel, I've already printed it out for safe-keeping!
sarahenglish
10-04-2002, 13:00
I'm on a roll now! Last night I did the 1st Celtic Cross Spread (ie. no permutations yet) I really liked not seeing the cards before I got to them. One interesting thing for me was that when I first started laying the cards out, I forgot to put them face down. I realized what I had done and picked them up, shuffled and started over. I was worried about it at first because I thought I was messing up my draw. But, since the excersise was face down I wanted to follow the instructions. The 2 cards that I consciously saw before I picked them up were the tower and knight of swords. (ok, maybe that helped make my decision to pick them up LOL) Well, even after a thorough shuffle, both of those cards showed up in my reading! So here's the spread:
Background for my question: I feel like I need to make a financial contribution to my family. We have decided to put our 2 children in private school to the tune of 27,500 per year. We ain't got that kind of money and are pretty panicked about where it will come from. Since my family doesn't want me to work a 9-5 job, I have to come up with something I can do to make alot of money. I am very creative but can't settle on one thing to focus on in terms of what I could produce and sell. My fantasy is that I would design and have my designs manufactured. But what should I design?
Question: What path should I take in the near future for my best and highest good?
Deck: Universal
1. Moon Reversed
2. Tower
3. Ace of Wands Reversed
4. Ace of Cups Reversed
5. Knight of Swords
6. 8 Swords
7. 4 Wands
8. 7 Pentacles Reversed
9. 5 Wands
10. Sun
4 reversed cards
2 aces (both reversed)
3 Wands
3 Majors
2 swords
1&2: General Atmosphere and conflicts - Moon Reversed & Tower:
I am stepping into the light and making beneficial changes. I need to confront my fears and avoid making any major decisions right now (or maybe I am avoiding the major decisions?) I need to guard against misunderstandings and sabatoge. My old way of life is collapsing and I am breaking free. A new job, disturbing news, a theft, or family quarrels may come into play. ( actually, to some extent all except the theft has happened recently) But I think most importantly, I am gaining spiritual enlightenment.
3. The Foundation or Basis Something that is already part of my existence- Ace Wands Reversed:
I can't get going, having touble getting started. Lack of motivation. Unproductiveness. A lack of ideas. I am feeling frustrated and powerless to accomplish my goals. My own selfish behavior may be the root of the difficulty. ( My indecision about what to produce)
4. What is in the past or passing out of influence. Ace of Cups Reversed:
Unhappiness in my emotional life, depression, sadness, sorrow. Nobody loves me. ( I suffer from clinical depression, and have just faced the loss of a close friend, who has become an alcoholic, and the realization that I valued the friendship more than she did. She saw me as an amusing part of her entourage, I would have given her the shirt off of my back. As it was, I wasted alot of emotional energy on her.)
5. My goals. The best that can be accomplished. Purpose. Aim. Ideals. My higher self. What I should strive to incorporate with in myself - Knight of Swords:
I need to be more confident, assertive, and fearless. I need to take decisive action. I need to come up with new ideas (no doh!)
I need to be resolute and have a steadfast commitment toward my goal. I need to reign in my impulsive and rash behavior. (This is all so true!)
6. That which is before me. The future. The next turn of events. What I cause. My ability to make decisions. What I put out in the world - 8 Swords:
I will continue to feel trapped in an oppressive environment. I will continue to fear the unknown. I will lack the confidence to proceed. I will feel a lack of empowerment, anxiety, worry and hard times. I will hold myself back. I should seek wise counsel (but who?) Waaaaaaaaaaah!
7. Me as I see myself - 4 Wands:
Content, Blessed, in harmony. Having a happy and secure home. Improved, prosperous, Celebrating and enjoying myself. Productive and in a creative pursuit. ( I am very blessed, with the best husband, 2 beautiful and incredibly smart children, a nice home, everyone is healthy, and I have developed some new friendships that are very nurturing on both sides.)
8. My environment, Home, work, family and friends. That which surrounds me - 7 pentacles:
I think this has to do with my husband: He seems to be giving up on himself. He is anxious and disillusioned with his job. He seems depressed, at a loss, in despair. Like he has wasted all of his energy with this company, he is stuck in a dead end job. He is weary and worried about finances. He is impatient and needs to guard against rash decisions and health problems. ( He is 41, and brilliant. He has been working for a company for the last 10 years that is totally taking him for granted. He is afraid that he is no longer marketable ( nothing could be further from the truth) He wants to leave but doesnt seem to be taking the neccessary steps. I have never seen him lack confidence before.)
It could also have to do with the way my family sees me as having a hobby dujour. They don't think I stick to anything long. They don't see that I am a seeker and a learner. I want to try almost everything once, even if it is not for me.
9. My hopes and fears of attaining the goal - 5 Wands:
I am looking forward to an exciting challenge. But I fear conflict, struggle, and rivalry. I don't want to have to prove myself. I am afraid of being assertive. I have self doubt. I don't like annoying details. I have too many irons in the fire. I need to set my priorities.
10. The outcome - The Sun:
I will have success and be fulfilled. I will be empowered with clear thinking and truth. My creative self expression will bring me satisfaction , joy, and blessings. I will have spiritual victory. I will have opportunities and creative self expression. Invention. Emotional well being.
It is amazing to me how much clearer this reading is to me now that I have posted it. Even more so than when I wrote it down on paper. Please note that the majority of my interpretation is directly out of Anthony Louis' "Tarot, Plain and Simple."
The main thing that I get from this is that if I can overcome my fears of rejection and self doubt, if I stop procrastinating, make a decision and rigorously apply myself, I can achieve my goal of using my creativity to enhance my family's financial position.
If only I could figure out exactly what to do! Is there a psychic out there who can tell me?
sarahenglish
11-04-2002, 12:29
This was a real insight for me. For the 1st time, I was able to see the cards in different contexts. It proved to be very convicting!
Original Cards & Numbers:
3) Ace Wands Reversed
4) Ace Cups Reversed
5) Knight Swords
6) 8 Swords
A.
Idea/Ideal (I mostly read as Idea since no one could possibly want the Ace of Cups Reversed as an Ideal!)
Ace Cups Reversed: I have the idea that I am unloveable or that love for me is conditional. If I expose myself and my creativity, I may be rejected.
Action/Assertion: Knight of Swords:
I need to be forthright and assertive. I need to be confident in myself and my work. I need to be decisive and fearless. I need to steadfastly commit to my goals. I need to avoid impulsive or rash behavior.
Habit/Intuition: 8 Swords:
I have a habit of fearing the unknown and making decisions. I hold myself back because I am afraid of failing. I am anxious and worried that what I put out and what I am is not perfect.
Letting Go/Receptivity: Ace Wands Reversed:
I need to let go of my procrastinating ways and start being productive. I need to let go of my negative thoughts and get out of my own way.
B.
Idea/Ideal: Ace Wands Reversed:
I have the idea that any roject I start will not succeed. I am frustrated by my belief that I am not empowered to reach my goals.
Action/Assertion: Ace Cups Reversed:
I need to face the heartbreaks and losses in my life. I need to come to terms with my depression and use it to my advantage (creatively speaking) I need to be able to accept rejection and not take it so personally.
Habit/Intuition: Knight of Swords:
I have the habit of being impulsive and making rash decisions (if I make them at all) I like quick solutions, I want the answers NOW! I am impatient. I like to be mentally stimulated. I am able to analytically solve problems. I have diverse interests (often referred to as scattered) and I am versatile.
Letting Go/Receptivity: 8 Swords:
I need to let go of my fear of the unknown. I need to release myself from the restraints I put upon myself. I need to let go of my insecurity, worry and anxiety. I need to assert myself and have faith in myself. I must face my fears in order to let them go.
C.
Idea/Ideals: 8 Swords:
I have the idea that I lack the power or ability to achieve my goals. I think I should venture out because it will be futile. I have the idea that I am not good enough and that I will dissappoint. I fear the unknown and I believe that I don't have the answers to my own questions. I want someone else to decide for me.
Action/Assertion: Ace of Wands Reversed:
I am avoiding action. I am procrastinating and don't even try for fear of failing. I demand too much of myself - I expect perfection. I am all thought and no action.
Habit/Intuition: Ace Cups Reversed:
I am in the habit of feeling unworthy of love. I avoid making emotional attachments out of fear of rejection. I am depressed and can be selfcentered.
Letting Go/Receptivity: Knight of Swords:
I need to let go of my impulsive behavior and rash decisions. I need to let go of some of the ideas, so that I can act on others. I need to be receptive of and confident in my analytical skills and use them to my best advantage. I may need to let go of some of my interests and focus on one thing.
Conclusion: This excercise really helped me to see that the only real obstacle I have is me. I need to let go of negative thoughts, have faith in myself and my ideas and go for it. My failure isnt failure because I haven't even tried yet. I need to realize that not everyone is going to like what I put out and that is ok. I can't take it personally. I need to use the talents that God gave me and not hide them away. I am woman, hear me roar!
i remember i turned all reversed cards upright in them permutations, maybe that was i didnt make any sense to me....
kaz
(i didnt like these permutation and CC)
~Giggles at Kaz~ so are you willing to try this again Kaz? *LOL*
SE what an insightful reading!!! Just my two cents here on the 8 of swords. Putting into the context of your own interpretation something that comes to mind to me is that perhaps it means that you should not isolate your self mentally. What I mean is that you think you have a great idea, then you talk yourself out of it thinking that others will somehow not approve of it or make you feel bad. I think this ties into your reversed Ace of Cups and Wands. When you isolate yourself mentally you withdraw emotionally which depresses you. In turn, since you are emotionally withdrawn then you do not have the initiative to create and get things going, blocking the Ace of Wands energy. What is fabulous is that you pretty much have come to your deduction on this :). The Knight of Swords is trying to lead you to action and to use your mind ... perhaps he can release the girl trapped behind the 8 swords, thus turning the Ace of Cups and Wands right side up again :).
Good luck! The answers are all within you, you do not need a psychic. You have taken the first step, you are accepting responsibility for your own actions and feelings. Now that you have done that you will be able to overcome the challenges effectively. Believe in you :)
sarahenglish
12-04-2002, 17:12
Thanks for the encouraging words Jewel. You may be right about the 8 swords, I am definitely my own worst critic. However, unfortunately I isolate myself when I am depressed because I am depressed. Its a chemical thing, not emotional and usually happens when I forget to take my medicine. But you are right in that I don't have the energy to create when I am down. I sort of "implode" for a while. Its a drag being dependent on medicine in order to lead a normal life but I look at it as being like insulin to a diabetic, just a missing chemical in my body. If you met me, you would never think that I was clinically depressed. Hope this isnt TMI for yall, I'm pretty much an open book.
SE I am glad that you feel comfortable enough with us to share what you wish to share. No one here will judge you, you are in a safe place :). SE, are you finding that Tarot helps you mentally and emotionally? I am just curious, I know it has done wonders for me. I do not sufer clinical depression or anything, it just has really added a real positive twist to my life, and I feel how it enriches it each day.
sarahenglish
15-04-2002, 15:45
Jewel,
I certainly feel enriched by tarot. I still haven't hit the 1 month mark though :) I think once I am more confident in my readings it will add to my emotional well being.
SE, have you tried using Tarot for spiritual development? I primarily use it for spiritual and personal development instead of readings and it has really touched me deeply. Divination is probably what I use the Tarot least for ... go figure.
sarahenglish
16-04-2002, 12:44
I haven't Jewel, but it sounds great. I'll check that out when I am through with Tarot For Yourself and 78Degrees of Wisdom. (Not that I will ever be through with them!) I am a bad one for starting too many things at once! Oh! I think you are talking figuratively, not about a book!LOL! Personal and spiritual development are certainly my main goal in this pursuit! However, a chemical is a chemical (not an alchemical lol) so I don't blan on giving up my meds or substituting Tarot for them. It is all enhancement for me. :)
SE, no argument here! I was not trying to play doctor here *LOL*. Just got excited and wanted to share that is all :)
napaisti
22-04-2002, 23:21
finally getting around to posting my results from this exercise. Have to admit that I tried using Greer's format for interpreting the CC as well as the permutations she described a couple of times already. In each case, I had NO problems reading the initial throw, but when I started doing the permutations everything kind of went to pieces. Since the rest of you had had such good results with the exercises I didn't want to just throw it all away, and gave it one more shot. Here's what I ended up with (original spread and interpretations; permutations to follow)
I also found that it all worked more smoothly when I allowed myself to write what felt right instead of rigidly following her format. I felt bad about that until I remembered the first rule of reading tarot -- do what feels right to you, so I did! ;) Sorry if I sound like a (really long) fortune cookie.
I used the Old Path with no reversals.
My question was, "What do you (the cards) want to tell me?"
1- 8:WL
2- 5:SL
3- :TWHEE
4- 5:OL
5- :TMAGE
6- A:CL
7- 9:SL
8- :TDEV
9- 3:WL
10- 3:OL
This spread is telling me what I need to do in order to 8:WS move in a positive direction 5:SS avoiding the false sense of security (or Pyrrhic victory?) that would hinder my development. :TWHEE First I need to trust my intuitive understanding of the cycles of life (e.g., "it's always darkest before the dawn", "what goes up, must come down", "every ending is also a beginning", etc). 5:OS Having survived periods of anxiety (general, financial, etc.) I have the knowledge of that survival to bring me strength and confidence in my ability to continue my life and journey. :TMAGE I am seeking control over my inner and outer worlds -- this control can only come through knowledge and the balancing of passion, thought, feeling, and action. A:CS My actions should be guided by my emotion, but I must be careful that those emotions do not go unchecked. 9:SS I feel blinded and paralyzed by the many options that surround me, but it is only by taking matters into my own hands and choosing a path that I will be able to cut those bonds. :TDEV I may be tempted to follow the paths of others without consulting my own needs/wants/beliefs -- in doing so I will be straying from the path that is mine alone. 3:WS I both hope and fear that I will enter into a relationship where I can follow the guidance/intuition of someone more capable/experienced than myself. I cannot be the student or the child forever. 3:OS Living takes a lot of effort and while success is not guaranteed, it is the journey (effort) that matters.
napaisti
napaisti
22-04-2002, 23:48
when I originally wrote this up, I wrote more in paragraph form noting where individual cards were focused, but in posting I went somewhat towards MKG's format, so if things seem out of sequence or anything, please forgive me. I also tend to start reading these 4 cards from the bottom, but have posted in the order in TfYS. Also, if you haven't guessed I tend to use cliches and quotes in my readings. I find the familiarity of the often heard words to make the information click. I mean, if you take the perspective that the symbology of the tarot is based on common themes (collective unconscious/archetypes/etc) then it makes sense to use phrasing that is also shared by a larger culture, right?
Past scenario
Idea/Ideal: 5:OL Suffering and worry are a natural part of the cycles of life. Remember "one cannot fully know joy until he has known sorrow".
Action/Assertion: :TMAGE I am the only person who controls my path, I must make a conscious decision and take specific actions to realize my dreams and aspirations.
Habit/Intuition: A:CL I have within myself a well of emotional energy waiting to be tapped. This potential gives me the strength to continue on my journey.
Letting Go/Receptivity: :TWHEE The changes I have experienced in my past prepare me for those that may lie ahead.
Subconscious scenario
Idea/Ideal: :TWHEE Remember, all things change and "the more things change, the more they stay the same".
Action/Assertion: 5:OL Also, "a sorrow shared is halved while a joy shared is doubled" so "fairly take and fairly give" both troubles and happiness.
Habit/Intuition: :TMAGE The knowledge and the power is in me; I have the potential for personal greatness.
Letting Go/Receptivity: A:CL In the past, my my unbridled emotions have brought me a sense of power, strength, and determination; however, I have learned that unchecked, those feelings can also bring vulnerability and pain.
Future scenario
Idea/Ideal: A:CL I am striving to find balance both of my emotions and through my feelings to the other aspects of my life.
Action/Assertion: :TWHEE My will determines my fate.
Habit/Intuition: 5:OL My anxiety can a be driving force that provides the motivation for change.
Letting Go/Receptivity: :TMAGE My past actions and choices have set me on this path.
napaisti
22-04-2002, 23:58
It's weird, I have had a hard time with this permutation, but I like it the best of the 4, go figure . . .
past 5:OL, :TWHEE, 3:WL
I am bringing from my past anxiety and the financial worries from not having taken care of responsibilities, as well as the desire to have someone else "looking over my shoulder" guiding me. I also know that change is inevitable and that I may need to leave these problems behind.
present 8:WL, 5:SL, 9:SL, :TDEV
I am beginning a new stage of my life's journey but at the same time am paralyzed by my fears of taking a "wrong turn" either by following others whose journey is in a different direction than my own or by being lulled into a false sense of victory. Is the cost of success too high?
future :TMAGE, A:CL, 3:OL
By consciously and deliberately drawing on my deep reserve of feeling and sensitivity I will become more focused and disciplined in my efforts.
napaisti
23-04-2002, 00:09
Overall the spread was fairly balanced. While I normally look at the distribution of the arcana in a spread, I don't usually look at each suit as an individual unit. It was an interesting exercise.
perceptual wands (2): I perceive myself forming a mentoring-style partnership as I begin a new leg of my spiritual journey.
emotional cups (1): I feel the need to recharge myself, getting in touch with my true feelings unfiltered by mental/physical/etc. aspects of my life.
mental swords (2): I am having difficulty deciding on a path; the options are overwhelming me I need to "cut" through to the heart of the matter (see cups above)
physical pentacles (2): I need to become more focusedand disciplined in my work in order to overcome my financial difficulties.
archetypal majors (3): I am the Magician who can turn the Wheel of Fortune to change my fate and to recognize and withstand Temptation on my journey.
napaisti
23-04-2002, 00:24
Really didn't like this permutation. Of the 4 it seemed to me to be the most forced. I liked the idea though, it just didn't feel right to me. what do you think; should I get a job writing fortune cookies?
Commencement of the commencement: 8:WL. Spiritual freedom and new direction in life's journey.
Opposition to the commencement: 5:SL. The cost of success on this path may be too great.
Integration of the commencement: :TWHEE. They are merely different parts of the cycle -- "to everything there is a season".
Commencement of the opposition: 5:OL. My anxiety holds me back, prevents me from trying new things.
Opposition to the opposition: :TMAGE. By taking control of my life, uniting and balancing the elements within me I have the ability to overcome my difficulties.
Integration of the opposition: A:CL. I need to "go with the flow" and follow my intuition.
Commencement of the integration: 9:SL. Release my self-induced paralysis by making a decision.
Opposition to the integration: :TDEV. I must be wary of deception by myself and others.
Integration of the integration: 3:WL. I must accept the guidance of others with more experience, but I must not lose my sense of self.
Outcome: 3:OL. I will be able to see the results of my focus, discipline, and hard work.
Ok, I've bored y'all enough for one evening,
napaisti
scottyramone
24-12-2008, 12:57
I am just doing the permutations exercise now, but i have a question i would like some help with.
In the examples Mary uses she turns all the cards to the up rite position when doing all the permutations.
So my question is , is that how most people do it? Will that no really change the whole reading?
I am new to Tarot, any help would be much appreciated.
Thank you,
rwcarter
24-12-2008, 14:51
I am just doing the permutations exercise now, but i have a question i would like some help with.
In the examples Mary uses she turns all the cards to the up rite position when doing all the permutations.
So my question is , is that how most people do it? Will that no really change the whole reading?
I am new to Tarot, any help would be much appreciated.
Thank you,
Hi scotty,
Mary is a member of AT, so she may chime in with her reasoning behind turning all the cards upright. It's possible that the cards are turned upright for the permutations because you're no longer examining the cards in their original positions in the reading, but looking at different aspects of them in the various permutations. And for those exercises, only the upright meanings of the cards are needed. So you would read the cards as they lay for the CC, but then only use them upright for the permutations.
To answer your other question, a lot of readers only read upright cards. Some (like me) ensure that there are no reversed cards in the deck. (We determine whether to read the card as upright or reversed based on the context of the spread and surrounding cards.) Some will not bother with uprighting the cards, but when they come across one in a spread, they'll mentally note that the card was reversed, but still turn it upright. Other readers read the cards as they fall.
You should do whatever feels right for you. And remember that what feels right today might be different than what feels right in a few years. I started out reading reversals, but I don't read them any longer.
HTH,
Rodney
scottyramone
24-12-2008, 15:42
Thanks for the info Rodney. That clears things up. i'm excited to give it another try tonight.
I'm not sure where i stand on reversals yet, but i really like your input as to the other cards would determine whether or not i should use its reversed meaning. I do use and study reversals, lots of times feel like they are not meant to be that way and vise-versa. But then I "think" maybe i'm just trying to make the shoe fit.
Once again, Thanks.
Hi - Mary here. I'm so glad you're trying out this process.
The important thing is to do whatever makes sense to you.
Basically I suggested using upright cards, but taking into account all their possibilities. The permutations are for brainstorming and seeing patterns, as well as for realizing that life is full of dynamic ingredients that shift and change. Most magic is not about making a thing into something that it isn't. Rather it's about accessing different levels or aspects of the forces present (as you choose) and working in harmony with them. Essentially you are getting to know the dynamics involved in several of their states of flux, so that you can work with - not against - them.
Am I making any sense?
Mary K. Greer
scottyramone
27-12-2008, 14:15
Wow- I'd just like to say its an honor to be able to discuss this with you Mary! I am pretty new to Tarot and think it just wonderful that an armature like myself can actually get some advice for a “seasoned Pro” with so much experience like yourself. I have your books Tarot for Yourself (obviously), 21 Ways to Read Tarot, and my wife has Tarot Constellations patterns of personal destiny. They are all grate and really helping me along in my new tarot journey.
Your advice dose make sense to me, however I think I'd like some advice (from you and or anyone who wishes to input) on a reading I did, and tried to use permutation #2 past, present, and future. The reading was pretty accurate but I got a little confused when I did the present part of the permutation, so I'll just talk about that.
Cards 1 and 2 where, 4 of cups R crossed by the Tower. I felt like the seeker was ready to stop thinking about new accomplishment or goals and get out there and do it. Something drastically changed in her life, that shook her foundations, I got the feeling that someone had betrayed her, and she now had the opportunity to start a new direction in life that she had been thinking about for some time now.
Card 7 was the Chariot R, so basically she sees herself as not having balanced self control. Things where just really tough rite now and she felt physically beat.
Card 8 was Strength R, others saw her also as not being in control, but on a different level, they saw her as perhaps having fear, being angry, causing some psychological problems.
Basically I advised her that she is capable of of becoming the Chariot and once she has balanced self control, she would then eventually have the courage to face her fears and have the strength to become mentally and emotionally healthy.
Now the present part of the permutation looks like this:
4 of Cups Tower
Chariot Strength
To me the Tower has the same meaning, but all the other cards pretty much have the opposite meaning now that they are up rite. All I can get from this is what I already told her about having the qualities of the Chariot and Strength inside of her rite now, she just need to work on bring them out. But that is nothing I did get form the CC. Finally the 4 of cups, I just finished telling her that she was ready to move on, “come out of her shell”, so where dose the boredom, discontent, lack of motivation, (my up rite interpretation) fit into “the Present”? Like I said it really just confused me.
Any input would be great, I'm sure I'll get better with more practice, and learn to trust my intuition more.
Thank-you,
Scott
I'd like some advice (from you and or anyone who wishes to input) on a reading I did, and tried to use permutation #2 past, present, and future. The reading was pretty accurate but I got a little confused when I did the present part of the permutation, so I'll just talk about that.
Cards 1 and 2 where, 4 of cups R crossed by the Tower. I felt like the seeker was ready to stop thinking about new accomplishment or goals and get out there and do it. Something drastically changed in her life, that shook her foundations, I got the feeling that someone had betrayed her, and she now had the opportunity to start a new direction in life that she had been thinking about for some time now.
Card 7 was the Chariot R, so basically she sees herself as not having balanced self control. Things where just really tough rite now and she felt physically beat.
Card 8 was Strength R, others saw her also as not being in control, but on a different level, they saw her as perhaps having fear, being angry, causing some psychological problems.
Basically I advised her that she is capable of of becoming the Chariot and once she has balanced self control, she would then eventually have the courage to face her fears and have the strength to become mentally and emotionally healthy.
Now the present part of the permutation looks like this:
4 of Cups Tower
Chariot Strength
To me the Tower has the same meaning, but all the other cards pretty much have the opposite meaning now that they are up rite.
Just because you are looking at them upright doesn't mean that they are automatically now "good" cards. In the permutation you need to see all the possibilities in a card - wholistically - including the problematic aspects.
As you suggested, in the long run this is a situation that may result in her developing strength and mastery, but that may not be of much consequence to her immediate feelings.
All those reversals indicate that she's probably going to be experiencing things pessimistically right now. I would start by commiserating with her about how difficult and overwhelming the situation feels. The Tower dominates the situation - with the two reversed and falling figures - just like all the cards surrounding it. Explore what's shaken her up so much. Validate her experience! Let her know that it's normal to feel out of control and weak in such a situation. It may very well be a "wake up call" - as you've suggested, but let her come to that realization once she's acknowledged where and how it feels so hopeless.
Of course, my theory of tarot reading is "You don't have to fix it!" - which runs counter to the way most people read.
My ex-husband was once going through an unusual bit of the blues. I kept trying to cheer him up - including doing a reading for him. Nothing I did seemed to help. We then went to lunch with an old friend. He mentioned his depression and she just looked at him and acknowledged that feeling down was really hard. He looked at her with such gratitude. It struck me like a bolt out of the blue. That was exactly what he needed—to simply be heard! I've tried to remember that and have seen the gratitude in the eyes of others during a reading when I acknowledge what they're going through and how difficult it is (implying that no one could expect it to be otherwise).
Before the end of the reading you can gently point out the long term benefits of coming to terms with the need for direction and the "wake up call." But, I wouldn't try to force her to feel like she suddenly has to take control - that would probably only make her feel more defeated.
This was all written without seeing the rest of the reading - so I was operating as if this were a four-card reading. Compassion seems to be the key - and that means not making her feel like she's "supposed" to do something she just can't right now.
I'd love to hear if others perceive this differently.