Inner wisdom vs. plain old projection

In reading different threads, I have the impression that so many of us fully trust/believe that whatever comes into our minds when we're reading cards is bound to be meaningful and 'right', just because it's come into our heads.

In psychotherapy, we talk about 'countertransference' when the therapist's own personal 'stuff' gets in the way of their work with clients. As tarot readers, do you feel concerned that your 'stuff' may interfere with your ability to access your inner wisdom? And, how do you deal with that?
When we look at and interpret the cards, we ARE projecting something of ourselves onto the cards, it can't be helped. It's one thing to do that for oneself, but what about when we read for other people?
I know there isn't an 'answer' to this, but to me it's a very important question.
I've been experimenting with a way of doing readings for others that takes this 'projection issue' into account. I'd love to hear what other people are doing, too.
First, I think of it as doing the reading WITH the person rather than FOR the person. We work together to try to make meaning of the cards.
I explain the position the card is in - what that position represents - and, if it's a minor card, something about what that suit represents. Then I ask them to hold the card, look at it, and I ask what they see when they look at the card. So, I get THEIR projections onto the card.
I tell them something about the traditional meaning of the card, in the literature, and any intuitive interpretations that have come into my mind (i.e., MY projections onto the cards) How much of that is inner wisdom vs. projection, it's not possible to know. I'm pretty sure it's bound to be a combination of the two.
So, I'm utilizing 3 sources of interpretation: theirs, mine, and the tarot literature. From there, we're off and running.
We do that with each card in each position, building up the 'story' of the cards and cross-referencing them with each other.
This process has worked very well, but it takes a long time - anywhere from 90 min. to 2 hrs. By the time we're finished, it feels like a very therapeutic experience has taken place.
At the end, I ask the person which cards stand out as the most meaningful or have the most 'charge' for them. They usually pick 2 or 3. I then go to my color copier and make a copy of those cards for them to take with them and help them remember and reflect on the reading.
I am a psychologist and my intention is to use the cards therapeutically, and this has been working very well for me: it "feels right."
I haven't been charging anything for this, because a) I'm just learning and they're giving me a gift by letting me practice with them, and b)I love doing it. If/when I start charging, it will be on a donation basis, except if it's my psychotherapy clients, and then its part of their therapy and the charge will be their regular session fee.
I'm very interested to hear other people's thoughts about this topic, as well as how you deal with it in your readings for other people.
And, are there any other psychologists out there who are using tarot in your psychotherapy practice?
Thanks for reading this long post!

first of all--what a great idea to use this in the way you do. I like how you really pull your client into helping you read the cards. getting their ideas as to what a card may mean to them--just by looking at it like you (we tarot readers) do too!

secondly, I have had times when I was reading the cards for people (as well as doing psychic and medium readings for clients) where I've gotten information that seemed to be more relevant for myself. It doesn't happen often--but I guess this is a normal thing to occur. as for how to deal with it--well--sometimes I don't REALIZE this is occurring until long after the reading is over and my client is gone. when I know the client well, I try to get in touch with them and say something like "guess what! remember when I said "blah, blah" in your reading? and you couldn't really relate to it occurring? well! it did--but for me! so, I think the information was more for me, and as a result, I should pull a few more cards for you". clients are ALWAYS willing to allow me to pull a few more cards for them.

There are alot of us who do readings for clients for free or for trade. as in 'trade' generally we ask them to do something for us or their community as payment or for something they can offer to us as payment instead of cash. I do both trades and community support from my clients, and once in awhile for payment. it works for me and for them.

I know of a few counselors who use different divination tools in their trade with their clients. I think it is wonderful that they do too!

I really like how you bring the client into the reading though by asking for their insights into the cards before them. I guess we all sort of do this when reading face to face, but the way you do it is wonderful! giving the client the chance to actually pick up each card and examine it and voice their feelings on the image before them. also helps them to become more comfortable with the tools of our trade!

What you describing is very similar to how I learned to read cards for others, and what I call Tarot Consultation versus Reading. Much more interactive, although I do not go through the whole process you describe for every single card. (And sometimes my clients have no interest in being interactive.)

I completely agree that contertransference is something any reputable tarot consultant/reader must address.

And at times I have found cards come up in a reading I am doing for someone that without a doubt represent me. And I tell the querent that usually I say something like "Just so you know this is a card that represents me in the reading, but let's keep going because it probably has a message for you too." I know a reader who has occasionally spread the cards for others only to realize that the spread is about HER life situation. So these things do happen.

In relation to the interpretations of the cards, I think one must set the intention to be as pure and objective a channel for information as possible. It is just as important for a tarot reader to know her own "stuff" so to speak, in order to identify it when/if it comes up. Just as good therapists also go through therapy in order to identify their triggers etc.

So, here is my caveat -- a querent will come to a certain reader for a reason, and that is likely an instinctive choice. The querent wants and needs my particular take on the spread of cards, or they would have chosen a different reader! That stems from my own philosophy that every event occurs for the highest good.

I'm glad that you are using tarot as part of your psychotherapy! And I look forward to what others have to say about this topic!

Dr.Girlfriend said:

In reading different threads, I have the impression that so many of us fully trust/believe that whatever comes into our minds when we're reading cards is bound to be meaningful and 'right', just because it's come into our heads.

In psychotherapy, we talk about 'countertransference' when the therapist's own personal 'stuff' gets in the way of their work with clients. As tarot readers, do you feel concerned that your 'stuff' may interfere with your ability to access your inner wisdom? And, how do you deal with that?
When we look at and interpret the cards, we ARE projecting something of ourselves onto the cards, it can't be helped. It's one thing to do that for oneself, but what about when we read for other people?
I know there isn't an 'answer' to this, but to me it's a very important question.

.........

I'm very interested to hear other people's thoughts about this topic, as well as how you deal with it in your readings for other people.
And, are there any other psychologists out there who are using tarot in your psychotherapy practice?
Thanks for reading this long post!

Click to expand...

When I read for others I read the cards and I speak whatever pops up.... I do trust the message - this took me a while to get to... in the beginning I didn't trust it but I learned how very wrong this was. My ego pushed the message away and I learned to quiet my ego and speak the message, of course within reason.... some things pop up and I have trouble delivering the message.... when I have trouble like this I deliver it but as kindly and as considerately as I can! Readings are not done in vacuum devoid of people - feelings need to be taken into consideration!

During the course of a reading cards will pop up that I am sure are for me.... I am sure because there will have been a previous pattern or message that is trying to be sent to me.... BUT this doesn't negate the reading for the sitter. The cards can be for me and for the sitter and for the person they are asking about etc etc etc.....

Reading isn't 1 + 1 = 2. In the beginning it might be, but as you continue you see that it isn't straight forward (which is why it has captivated my attention - much like the game of Go - they programmed a computer to play chess with a person but they can't program one to play Go!). You read this and that and then you read it backwards and zig zaggy and then you close your eyes and read the air - the card can be for me and for my sitter and for my husband and my neighbor - I just stop for a sec and say (in my head) ok got the point we will revisit this later....leave me be for a minute) and I continue.

As far as transference I am quite familiar with the concept and I am very careful not to fall into it, in fact it has never posed a problem. The issue that I have trouble with, at times, is the message is X and logic dictates that it should be Y, but so far I have been true to the message....... I am supposed to deliver the message not analyze whether the message is a right one or not. I had a person wanting to end their relationship the other day..... the person was clearly in pain - I delivered the message.... as it was - the person was not happy and their eyes began to well..... I looked at the sitter and said LOOK you are young.... life is too short to be unhappy - you asked me to give you the message - I did - you don't have to receive it.... do as you wish! If it makes you this unhappy then move on! What are you asking me??? But if you are asking me.....then the message is to work on it.... open up and talk and your happiness will be found. It was what it was.....

This past summer my lesson was to listen to my intuition and trust it.....I learned the lesson - a bit the hard way. Recently the message for me has been to deliver the message and not what I think it should be..... so far I have been following the plan.....can't wait for the next lesson.... The universe never ceases to amaze me.

My advice to you is to let go. Stop trying to control the message and it will come to you in spades!

Dr.Girlfriend said:

In psychotherapy, we talk about 'countertransference' when the therapist's own personal 'stuff' gets in the way of their work with clients. As tarot readers, do you feel concerned that your 'stuff' may interfere with your ability to access your inner wisdom?

Click to expand...

I'll try to answer your question, but on exapmle of another profession
While a trained diplomat presumably has her/his own opinion on certain policies - their job is to conduct the oficcial foreign policy of their country, in case they fail to do so - they are concidered not skilled enough and supposed to either resign themselves or to be dismissed from service.
If applied to reading Tarot - an experinced reader is not supposed to bring in their own agendas, they are supposed to present the message given by Tarot. Unfortunately, there aren't studies that will guarantee one is a good reader; the only way to become a good reader is to practice and to read for as many people as possible, face to face.
I personally would love to meet a psychologyst (if not a psychoteraphist) who is simultaneosly a great Tarot reader; but i wouldn't like my imaginery therapist to practice on me while they are a begginer, especially if i had some seious concerns regarding my mental health.
Btw, I was told by a friend who is a psychotherapist ( with degree in medical science plus subspecialisation in psychotheraphy) that transference was quite common between patients and therapists, but was considered pathologycal only in cases of personal or social harm; but since its not my 'cup of tea', i'd refrain from having a personal opinion there. The best of luck to you!

Thank you!

Thanks so much sharing your thoughts and ideas, celtic noodle, brightbrook, frannlee and moderndayruth. It has been most enjoyable and helpful to read what you all have written.
thanks again, it's so nice to put out an idea or question and receive such valuable feedback.

Dr.Girlfriend said:

In reading different threads, I have the impression that so many of us fully trust/believe that whatever comes into our minds when we're reading cards is bound to be meaningful and 'right', just because it's come into our heads.

In psychotherapy, we talk about 'countertransference' when the therapist's own personal 'stuff' gets in the way of their work with clients. As tarot readers, do you feel concerned that your 'stuff' may interfere with your ability to access your inner wisdom? And, how do you deal with that?
When we look at and interpret the cards, we ARE projecting something of ourselves onto the cards, it can't be helped. It's one thing to do that for oneself, but what about when we read for other people?
I know there isn't an 'answer' to this, but to me it's a very important question.
I've been experimenting with a way of doing readings for others that takes this 'projection issue' into account. I'd love to hear what other people are doing, too.

Click to expand...

I rarely read for others, but it is something that concerns me when I do. I try to be aware of what's going on with me, in fact I like to analyze my dreams and do a certain amount of self-analysis, albeit a lay person's version of it. I'm interested in Jung, and I'm trying to learn more about how to know myself. But I figure that if countertransference is a problem for psychologists, then it's certainly something I as a layperson need to be aware of and cautious about. I wasn't familiar with the term before your post here, but I was aware of the effect, and of what projection is.

I like your method of doing readings, and I usually do something similar for those I read for in person (when I do). I offer my interpretation and some possibilities first, and then ask what they see in the cards or what they think the reading might be about.

But I wonder how well this method translates for reading online, such as in the reading exchange here, or by email, which I also do sometimes. If the person is familiar with Tarot I think that helps, when reading online here, because they always have their own take on the cards, and I've noticed most are willing to add that to the mix in the exchanges here -- and they're not as shy about speaking up if they think I'm off base as someone unfamiliar with Tarot might be.

Reading by email for someone not so familiar with Tarot is the trickiest. If they can't see the cards, there's no way for them to add their perspective, either up front or after the interpretation -- at least not a perspective based on that specific image.

That's one reason (of many) that I'm designing a deck for my personal use, so I can read by email and provide the images, without concern about copyright and permissions with someone else's deck. I think that just as with dream images the sitter (client) is probably the best interpreter of the images that come up in a Tarot reading, as they relate to them as an individual.

I can provide what I know of the card's tradition, as well as a description of the image, and what stands out for me as a possible intuition, but I agree that their view of the cards is important too, in fact possibly more so than mine.

I also like to tell people that Tarot may have the answer for them, but I don't always, and that I can make mistakes. They should take themselves more seriously than they take me in making decisions about their lives. If I give advice in a reading, I give it as a possibility of what the cards are suggesting, not as something the person must follow. It's just one perspective, after all, and their own perspective of any situation in their life is the most important.

In fact, I prefer to read without any question, just a general or "what's happening now" reading, and give broad rather than specific interpretations, as well as anything that might be intuitive that comes up -- and I offer the intuitive portion with reservations as to its accuracy. If I know of something in my life that's possibly feeding into the interpretation, I mention that too.

I hope that everyone who seeks a reading, from anyone, keeps in mind that no one is perfect, including Tarot readers.

I used to read for people in my home and your post has reminded me of the way I used to read for them. It was interactive whereby I still had the control but invited comments and interest during the reading. I also brought in extra cards if I felt I needed more information or if there was a particular aspect of the reading which they focussed on. We talked and studied the cards together and this way I felt that the reading was less predictive and more 'self' analytical.

Its different on the forum or by email. In those situations I tend to read what I see and I'm not looking for someone to tell me whether the reading is accurate, my accuracy is not important to me.

This is where in-person readings vary from internet ones. I've had a few exchanges here on Aeclectic where it was agreed up front to have more interaction during the reading, and following it. Not feedback... that's unimportant. Its the conversation between the three of us (as you said Dr.Girlfriend) which I find most interesting about Tarot reading.