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Maggiemay
25-03-2009, 03:11
When looking at an astrological canvas where Mars is found in the 5th house and hosted by none other than the sign of Cancer, I find myself in a quandary when it comes to suggesting the most suitable outlets in which Mars could express itself in a... : constructive way.

Cancer being a complex position for mars. I am wondering what is your take on the position itself? What's a guy to do if he has Mars in cancer?

I mean, other than the usual: ''passive aggressive'', ''contentious rapport with women'', ''learn how to cook'', ''patriotist'', ''lunatic's'' attributes; is there something more to Mars in cancer? Or is it a long and uncomfortable exile through and through for both, the planet and the hosting sign?

Would it be fair to say that this positioning of Mars could be an excellent place for the consummate ecologist? or a defender of children? perhaps even a counselor or psychologist? Or why not even? : A comedian?

I understand that a lot of the general understanding of Mars must be done in conjunction with its relating aspects to the rest of the chart, but when looking at that positioning alone: How do you understand it? Or do you not wander in that ''territory'' without the supporting contributing aspects?

I'd love to hear a different take on that difficult position.

Maggie :)

BigLuna
25-03-2009, 08:19
In addition to children and affairs, the 5th house is very creative. It also indicates sports. Flavor it with Cancer's attributes, and you may find someone who is interested in swimming or other water sports, as a coach to children maybe. Of course, the energy could be used personally with great abandon; for example, someone who is energized (instead of relaxed) by being near the water.

Relating to creativity, it might manifest as someone who passionately "creates" waterscapes, or uses a medium like water colors.

It could be as simple as someone who wants to have a lot of kids, a huge family.

It's important not to try to put it in a tight little box. Mars is a driving planet, so it's got to manifest in one way or another.

Aspecting planets will affect the placement.

Is this in your chart, or are you asking about someone else? If it's yours, how do you see it working for you?

Maggiemay
25-03-2009, 09:07
In addition to children and affairs, the 5th house is very creative. It also indicates sports. Flavor it with Cancer's attributes, and you may find someone who is interested in swimming or other water sports, as a coach to children maybe. Of course, the energy could be used personally with great abandon; for example, someone who is energized (instead of relaxed) by being near the water.

Relating to creativity, it might manifest as someone who passionately "creates" waterscapes, or uses a medium like water colors.

It could be as simple as someone who wants to have a lot of kids, a huge family.

It's important not to try to put it in a tight little box. Mars is a driving planet, so it's got to manifest in one way or another.

Aspecting planets will affect the placement.

Is this in your chart, or are you asking about someone else? If it's yours, how do you see it working for you?

I unfortunately have mars in cancer. But in this particular case I was inquiring for someone else: a man, who also happens to have mars in cancer also in his 5th house... however, his mars is square pluto...

Now, as far as I am concerned, mars in cancer makes me very ''motherly'' and very very 'protective' towards children.

I love the fun, innocent honesty and free spirit of children.

In my love life, I love to date men ('gentle'men, preferably , lol) who demonstrate a childlike spirit towards the world. (usually I find it hilarious).

I should notice that when I get hurt, I tend to sulk a little bit and it never last very long...not at all.. Also, I love to clean my house ( cancer = home) and being a ''stay at home'' mom would agree with me. Oddly enough, I find myself more ''awake'' at night than during the day yet I do not sustain fatigue very well unless I am doing something fun. That's for my personal Mars.

Now in regards to men who are naturally inclined to identify more with the Mars energy, I wonder what it feels like for them to have a martian energy in a femine passive sign such as cancer.

I was just wondering if they were any redeaming qualities to it. There's got to be! Maybe they can strive to be another Michael Phelps!! And I wouldn't be surprised if mars in cancer could produce a great football player (as he long as he'd consider his team as his family)

This guy at work (with the mars in cancer) comes across as moody and too sensitive for comfort. He gets on the defensive when there really is no need to. ( but then again, as I said his mars is in square aspect to pluto)


Personally, I don't appreciate having mars in cancer and I typically have never been very involved with cancer men or even cancer woman. ( Even though there is nothing wrong with being a cancer.)

It is interesting that you mentioned the ''water'' element as I would hardly even consider living in a place not surrounded by water or near water. I need water, water, water... ( yet I enjoy mountain climbing a lot...I find mountains to be sanctuaries...so go figure?!)

Again, my best way to relax and feel '' brand new'' in every way ( physically and psychologically) is to take a BATH. However, when it comes to exercising, I enjoy swimming for fun but do not consider that activity as a serious exercising routine.

So, here is my Mars biography!! lol


Thanks for your post,

Maggie :)

BigLuna
25-03-2009, 22:53
I unfortunately have mars in cancer.

One of the things that discourages me in the study of astrology is when someone looks at a particular placement in a chart and sees it as bad or unfortunate. The condemning of it is the problem, not the placement itself. Nothing is wholly bad; nothing is wholly good. It is what it is. What matters is how someone chooses to use the energy, which will result in a negative or positive connotation.

If someone has told you (or you have read) that having Mars in Cancer is unfortunate, reconsider their abilities as a counselor. It invites victimization and dooms the person to feeling inferior. We are never at the mercy of the planets. We work them. Each one is a gift.

Sulking or brooding is not the result of only having Mars in Cancer, even with the Pluto square. I was taught that in order for something to be confirmed in a chart, we need to look to the "rule of three." Is there a repetitive pattern that emerges? For example, a chart heavy in water, other planets in Cancer, Scorpio, or Pisces? Are the water houses heavy with planets? Strong Moon or Neptune placements? Other fire/water combinations?

If the Mars in Cancer symbolism upsets you in some way, the task is to discover why. I have a friend who says that we need to "turn our squares into trines." The idea of that would benefit us with any placement we see as not working to our advantage.

I have a tight Mercuy/Pluto conjunction, with other strong 3rd and 8th house placements. It took me a long time to "get it" that sometimes I just needed to keep my mouth shut. I do hope this is not one of those times. :) Using words to heal is so much better than using them to tear folks down.

Minderwiz
26-03-2009, 00:43
Well Mars in Cancer is not an 'unfortunate' or even a weak placing for Mars and I don't know where you got the idea from, unless it is picked up from the sloppy modern thinking that Cancer is a Water sign and Mars is a 'firey' planet.

Mars is the ruler of Scorpio, a Water sign and it has dignity by triplicity in all Water signs - this is a level of dignity just below Rulership and exaltation. Depending where in Cancer Mars lies, it may have even more dignity still - in the first five degrees of Cancer Mars has as much dignity as the Moon, its ruler.

Mars represents the 'warrior' in you - the way in which you assert yourself, stand up for yourself and take up challenges.

Now a fifth House Mars indicates that fifth House activities are the easiest way for Mars' energy to be expressed. As has been said that includes sports, hobbies, pastimes and children. It also includes the movable property of your father or parents jointly.

Watery Mars is less impetuous, less directly aggressive than Mars in Aries but it tends to be more successful.

Bernice
26-03-2009, 00:49
BigLunas' post:
Very sensible approach to planetry contacts and zodiac placements - one that mirrors my own.

Minderwizs' post:
Yep. Agreed!

Maggiemay:
However some reading methods use planetary exultation & debilitation placements to gauge their strength. Personally, I might only consider this in a Horary Chart.... But much will depend on how you eventually decide to decipher a chart.

Bee :)

Maggiemay
26-03-2009, 01:23
Well Mars in Cancer is not an 'unfortunate' or even a weak placing for Mars and I don't know where you got the idea from, unless it is picked up from the sloppy modern thinking that Cancer is a Water sign and Mars is a 'firey' planet.

Mars is the ruler of Scorpio, a Water sign and it has dignity by triplicity in all Water signs - this is a level of dignity just below Rulership and exaltation. Depending where in Cancer Mars lies, it may have even more dignity still - in the first five degrees of Cancer Mars has as much dignity as the Moon, its ruler.

Mars represents the 'warrior' in you - the way in which you assert yourself, stand up for yourself and take up challenges.

Now a fifth House Mars indicates that fifth House activities are the easiest way for Mars' energy to be expressed. As has been said that includes sports, hobbies, pastimes and children. It also includes the movable property of your father or parents jointly.

Watery Mars is less impetuous, less directly aggressive than Mars in Aries but it tends to be more successful.

mmhh...

I am very surprised at what you wrote. Pleasantly surprised!

I appreciate your input, Minderwiz.

Cheers!

Maggie :)

Maggiemay
26-03-2009, 01:48
If someone has told you (or you have read) that having Mars in Cancer is unfortunate, reconsider their abilities as a counselor. It invites victimization and dooms the person to feeling inferior. We are never at the mercy of the planets. We work them. Each one is a gift.

Most of my reading about Mars in cancer have been disconcerting to say the least...

Sulking or brooding is not the result of only having Mars in Cancer, even with the Pluto square.

I don't have the pluto square on my Mars ( my colleague does) - which I would tend to think that he would not be the type to ''sulk'' with such an aspect...

Now, I was saying that *I* tend to sulk when I am hurt... by that I meant that my mood gets somewhat affected and I become out of sync' for a little while... But it's no big deal b/c I have a rather sound and solid mercury...

But I understand what you are trying to say. I agree.



I was taught that in order for something to be confirmed in a chart, we need to look to the "rule of three." Is there a repetitive pattern that emerges? For example, a chart heavy in water, other planets in Cancer, Scorpio, or Pisces? Are the water houses heavy with planets? Strong Moon or Neptune placements? Other fire/water combinations?

Very good point.

If the Mars in Cancer symbolism upsets you in some way, the task is to discover why. I have a friend who says that we need to "turn our squares into trines." The idea of that would benefit us with any placement we see as not working to our advantage.

Well, it's like for everything else : I read a lot about Mars in Cancer and retained the 'worse' that was said about it b/c frankly it shocked me.

In one article, the astrologer compared Mars in cancer to Commodus in the movie ' Gladiator' with adjectives such as : cowardice, conniving, tempermental, deceitful,treacherous ect...

My father has Mars in Scorpio ; and frankly he is a long shot from being a coward. That being said, I wouldn't want to ''attrack'' a lover or children that would have the above mentionned character traits...and least of all : myself!

That is why I have been... well...I'll just go ahead and say it : I have been ashamed of having Mars in cancer. No one else in my family has this
placement. Though, I am reconsidering my position since exposing the issue to you guys.. ;)

Yet, it might be enlightening for me to mention that my parents did not get along so well and divorced. It has been many many years since their separation, everyone has happily moved on and yet I still find myself crying about it sometimes even if I am a grown woman. (I bear a profound sadness about it.)


I have a friend who says that we need to "turn our squares into trines." The idea of that would benefit us with any placement we see as not working to our advantage.

That is definitely something that I would like to discuss further as I find it most essential in regards to self-discovery thru astrology... (in another thread I guess)


I have a tight Mercuy/Pluto conjunction, with other strong 3rd and 8th house placements. It took me a long time to "get it" that sometimes I just needed to keep my mouth shut. I do hope this is not one of those times. :) Using words to heal is so much better than using them to tear folks down.

You're sweet! No concern here...we're cool...lol

Thank you for your post,

Maggie :)

Maggiemay
26-03-2009, 02:02
Maggiemay:
However some reading methods use planetary exultation & debilitation placements to gauge their strength. Personally, I might only consider this in a Horary Chart.... But much will depend on how you eventually decide to decipher a chart.

Bee :)

Interesting.

Thank you Bee,

Maggie :)

Minderwiz
26-03-2009, 04:12
Perhaps one of the reasons why you have picked up negative impressions of Mars in Cancer is that many modern writers do not use the traditional essential dignities, or if they do, only pay attention to rulerships, and perhaps exaltations and less possibly their opposites fall and detriment

That's why they come to a conclusion that Mars in Cancer is a mixture of Fire and Water, and must therefore not work out well. I do use the traditional essential dignities, because they allow me to shade the interpretation, rather than coming out with stock paragraphs.

One of the key things you need to realise is that natal charts show 'promise' not a detailed road map of what will happen, still less a guarantee of success or failure. The natal chart shows the hand that you've been dealt, how you play it is very much up to you - fortunes have been made at poker on lousy hands and many people with limited talents have made the best of them to reach the top levels of society. This is what BigLuna is trying to get you to realise with the point of converting squares into trines.

Incidentally, please realise that squares and oppositions are the drivers of life. They're the things that get people out of their armchairs and into action. So don't be afraid of them. Trines and sextiles keep people in their armchairs waiting for goodies to be showered on them (and of course it never happens, except in a small minority of cases).

A final point - again BigLuna makes an excellent point about the rule of three. Whilst I don't take it too literally, I DO look for corroborating evidence. If there's no supporting evidence elsewhere in the chart I'm extremely loathe to rest an interpretation on one aspect or relationship. Only if it is extremely strong will I give it any weight and even then I'll look for anything which would inhibit or restrict the aspect playing out in a significant way.

In general don't place weight on anything which is not underlined by evidence elsewhere and the more corroboration the better.

Maggiemay
26-03-2009, 04:31
Perhaps one of the reasons why you have picked up negative impressions of Mars in Cancer is that many modern writers do not use the traditional essential dignities, or if they do, only pay attention to rulerships, and perhaps exaltations and less possibly their opposites fall and detriment

No kidding! :)


That's why they come to a conclusion that Mars in Cancer is a mixture of Fire and Water, and must therefore not work out well. I do use the traditional essential dignities, because they allow me to shade the interpretation, rather than coming out with stock paragraphs.


And, as you previously mentionned : the traditional essential dignities of Mars is Scorpio.
Correct me if I am mistaken but I believe I read that the essential dignity for Pluto is Aries... Am I out in the field on that one?

One of the key things you need to realise is that natal charts show 'promise' not a detailed road map of what will happen, still less a guarantee of success or failure. The natal chart shows the hand that you've been dealt, how you play it is very much up to you -

My approach has been rather fatalistic... I should reconsider that mind frame.


This is what BigLuna is trying to get you to realise with the point of converting squares into trines.

I understand. In the case of my Mars, the challenge would be to utilize what I have in its most optimal way... That is where my rigid approach has hindered me...

Incidentally, please realise that squares and oppositions are the drivers of life. They're the things that get people out of their armchairs and into action. So don't be afraid of them. Trines and sextiles keep people in their armchairs waiting for goodies to be showered on them (and of course it never happens, except in a small minority of cases).

I reckon willingly that squares and oppositions are the 'spice of life' and 'character builders' but some of them are tough... you got to admit!? lol

A final point - again BigLuna makes an excellent point about the rule of three. Whilst I don't take it too literally, I DO look for corroborating evidence. If there's no supporting evidence elsewhere in the chart I'm extremely loathe to rest an interpretation on one aspect or relationship. Only if it is extremely strong will I give it any weight and even then I'll look for anything which would inhibit or restrict the aspect playing out in a significant way.In general don't place weight on anything which is not underlined by evidence elsewhere and the more corroboration the better.

Point taken. You're both right.


Maggie :)

Ps: Enough about me already!!! What about you ' forum friends'? Anyone wants to reveal what it feels like to have, say.. Mars in pisces...or Mars in Libra... or even Mars in virgo?

Thank you all sooo much for your inputs. You cannot imagine how I enjoy reading your posts. Indeed, those are very well founded and enriching.

BigLuna
26-03-2009, 06:33
Well, Maggie, this may crack you up, but I'm a 6th house Cancer Sun with Mars in Scorpio in the 9th. You know the game Othello, "a minute to learn, a lifetime to master"? I'm still working on it and probably will till the day I die.

What's one way I use that energy? I would say that I'm relentless when I decide to dig into something, doesn't matter what it is. I make good use of those 6th house (akin to Virgo) skills in researching something I'm interested in and then I want to pass that knowledge on. If I can change or transform something, I will. (Unlike "typical" Cancerians, I'm not especially tied to the past. It's gone, you know?) I don't like to see things die, but I love to see them morph into something better. I may hack away at it like crazy till it's down to a nub, but I'll work very hard at making it blossom into something lovely. It sounds harsh, but sometimes you have to make a mess to clean a house, you know?

Here's something to think about. The Greeks and Romans had very different perspectives on Ares/Mars. The Greeks truly feared him, and for good reason. He was a whiney coward who travelled with Discord (his twin sister), Strife (her son), Terror, Tembling, and Pain, leaving a bloody trail.

The Romans, who knew him as Mars, liked him much better. To them, he was a great lover (hung out with Venus), a hero in bright shining armor, courageous, and invincible, who learned to dance before perfecting the art of battle. Amazingly, he only killed once, protecting his daughter who was raped by one of Poseidon's sons. He was acquitted of his crime by the council of immortals.

While Mars definitely gives us our energy and keeps us from being total couch potatoes, he is also a lover and a dancer. As the lover, we can think of him as penetratingly intuitive, with deep yearnings and intense emotions.

The mythology behind astrology is beautiful. Do a search for the painting of Mars by Velazquez (1640). Visuals help me understand the sometimes difficult symbolism of astrology. This painting really changed my view of Mars. He's in battle gear, but not what you might imagine.

Minderwiz
26-03-2009, 06:53
No kidding! :)


And, as you previously mentionned : the traditional essential dignities of Mars is Scorpio.
Correct me if I am mistaken but I believe I read that the essential dignity for Pluto is Aries... Am I out in the field on that one?



Pluto has no essential dignity because it wasn't known to those who developed the system. I won't go into Pluto's status here, I've ranted about that elsewhere. however, I will add that Uranus and Neptune are similarly without essential dignity.


Essential Dignity is more extensive than rulership

The levels are;

Rulership
Exaltation
Triplicity ruler
Terms
Face

In that order. Historically you will find referencces to numerical weightings of these in a 5 4 3 2 1 order but those were really only used as a guide for students.

Face has very little dignity, if we look at it in terms of domicile, it's slightly better than being homeless. Classical Astrologers used the dignities to establish mutual receptions, as well as planetary strength. Thus planets could be in mutual reception by say, Triplicity and Terms. Modern Astrologers tend only to see mutual reception in terms of rulership.

Now, as an elaborate system of essential dignity adds complexity to understanding, it also adds complexity to interpretation. It's something to come to when you have some understanding of the basics.

Reception, a planet being received by another into one of it's dignities was a major part of traditional interpretation.

Maggiemay
26-03-2009, 09:27
Well, Maggie, this may crack you up, but I'm a 6th house Cancer Sun with Mars in Scorpio in the 9th. You know the game Othello, "a minute to learn, a lifetime to master"? I'm still working on it and probably will till the day I die.

I should have known!!! And there I was lecturing on how I have no ''affinities'' with Cancers! lol

(Unlike "typical" Cancerians, I'm not especially tied to the past. It's gone, you know?)

That isn't ''typical''. 'Would you say this has something to do with where your moon is at?


I don't like to see things die, but I love to see them morph into something better. I may hack away at it like crazy till it's down to a nub, but I'll work very hard at making it blossom into something lovely. It sounds harsh, but sometimes you have to make a mess to clean a house, you know?

I believe you 100%.


Here's something to think about. The Greeks and Romans had very different perspectives on Ares/Mars. The Greeks truly feared him, and for good reason. He was a whiney coward who travelled with Discord (his twin sister), Strife (her son), Terror, Tembling, and Pain, leaving a bloody trail.

I did not know that...Perhaps, I should get re-acquainted with Homer's Odyssey.

The Romans, who knew him as Mars, liked him much better. To them, he was a great lover (hung out with Venus), a hero in bright shining armor, courageous, and invincible, who learned to dance before perfecting the art of battle. Amazingly, he only killed once, protecting his daughter who was raped by one of Poseidon's sons. He was acquitted of his crime by the council of immortals.

Did not know that either...
What I do know however, is that Zeus was quite the womanizer! lol


While Mars definitely gives us our energy and keeps us from being total couch potatoes, he is also a lover and a dancer. As the lover, we can think of him as penetratingly intuitive, with deep yearnings and intense emotions.

Seriously?
That perception of Mars is quite alluring I must tell you!


The mythology behind astrology is beautiful. Do a search for the painting of Mars by Velazquez (1640). Visuals help me understand the sometimes difficult symbolism of astrology. This painting really changed my view of Mars. He's in battle gear, but not what you might imagine.

You are quite right : A picture is worth a thousand words.

My vision of Mars is being transformed. I think it was about time.

Thank you,

Maggie

Maggiemay
26-03-2009, 09:30
Pluto has no essential dignity because it wasn't known to those who developed the system. I won't go into Pluto's status here, I've ranted about that elsewhere. however, I will add that Uranus and Neptune are similarly without essential dignity.

It's cool. I could always 'search' the forum to read what you wrote. (providing you ''ranted'' on this forum!)



Essential Dignity is more extensive than rulership

The levels are;

Rulership
Exaltation
Triplicity ruler
Terms
Face

I see.

Face has very little dignity, if we look at it in terms of domicile, it's slightly better than being homeless.

Right. I remember you made an allusion to that the other day when I was asking about the decanates...

Classical Astrologers used the dignities to establish mutual receptions, as well as planetary strength. Thus planets could be in mutual reception by say, Triplicity and Terms. Modern Astrologers tend only to see mutual reception in terms of rulership.

eg: Mars in cancer in 5th house would ''work'' in terms of the Moon...or is the sun ( ruler of 5th as a rule)?

Now, as an elaborate system of essential dignity adds complexity to understanding, it also adds complexity to interpretation. It's something to come to when you have some understanding of the basics.

Right. Of course.

Is this how we would go about it? :

#1 : first, find which sign each planet finds itself in,
#2 : after, determine if & how every planet has any affinity to their host,
#3 : then, look into which house each planet finds itself in order to determine on who's term the planet is operating.
#4 : following that, figure out what the aspects are between the various planets as well as their impact on each other while nuancing the interpretations by taking into account the various dignities...


Quite complex indeed. Almost like juggling various concept and notions while trying to make sense of it all...

Needless to say, I am not there yet. It's too bad, I very much wish I'd have a better insight into reading charts..

Thanks again Minderwiz,

Maggie :)