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Salandria
25-03-2009, 19:20
So, I just saw this really interesting peice. 2000 years ago more or less, the world was tilted as star signs were used to represent your birth month. The sun rose in that constalation at that time, but now the world is tilted so we could very well be a much different star sign in constalation terms.

Could i Be and aries/taurus?

This is just a random thought.

Maggiemay
26-03-2009, 01:21
I read about that. You are definitely on to something here.

Actually, from what I gather, this issue is what distingues the 'occidental' (tropical zodiac) astrology from the 'hindu/vedic' astrology ( sidereal zodiac).

The Vedic astrology, I believe uses the actual placements of the planets in the sky.

If you draw up your chart with the Vedic system ( hindu/Lahiri sidereal), you will see where the planets actually were in the sky when you were born.

Sometimes I wonder why we don't use those charts.

Maggie :)

SkadisPhoenix
26-03-2009, 01:40
Well that would definately explain why I don't have many Virgo traits! It's defiantely interesting. I've always read my horoscopes, and so often been left scratching my head, because it doesn't apply to me at all, and this really would make a lot of difference I'm thinking.

Maggiemay
26-03-2009, 01:47
Well that would definately explain why I don't have many Virgo traits! It's defiantely interesting. I've always read my horoscopes, and so often been left scratching my head, because it doesn't apply to me at all, and this really would make a lot of difference I'm thinking.

Did you check your geocentric sidereal chart?

Honestly I'd prefer using the chart with the planet's real placements but I don't. I wonder why...

As for Horoscope, you might to try : ''Phil booth Horoscope'' website. He is usually very much on target!

Maggie :)

willowfox
26-03-2009, 01:53
Progression of the Equinoxes Takes 25920 years to complete.

Maggiemay
26-03-2009, 01:56
Progression of the Equinoxes Takes 25920 years to complete.

You lost me at .... 'Progression'! lol

Do you have time to explain it (progression of equinoxes) to me? If you do not, it is ok, I will do the research.

Maggie :)

willowfox
26-03-2009, 02:11
This is what the thread start is talking about, the slow progression of the signs

Maggiemay
26-03-2009, 02:20
This is what the thread start is talking about, the slow progression of the signs

The slow progression of the signs, ie: slow progression of the constellations in the sky, right?

If that is correct, how does the fact that it takes 25920 years to complete affect us?

Shouldn't we be using the vedic system as a reference of what is accurate and true? ( even if the constellations are progressing) Or is it safer to stick to the yearly date and time to establish a chart.

Apology for any mumbo jumbo on my part , I must concede, I feel very much out of my depth here.

Maggie : )

Minderwiz
26-03-2009, 03:33
Plus ca change.....

We've run over the precession of the equinoxes several times. In simple terms
it's due to wobbles in the Earth's orbit around the Sun. These wobbles cause the stellar background to shift at a slow but predictable pace.

One of the effects of this wobble is that over a period of 72 years the position of the Earth against the stellar background shifts backward by one degree. So the (Northern) vernal equinox which used to occur at 0 degrees Aries has now shifted back into Pisces.

Yes Vedic Astrologers allow for this and keep to a stellar measuring rod. Western Astrologers use the seasons of the year as the measuring rod - thus the Vernal equinox is defined as 0 degrees Aries in the Tropical Zodiac. In effect Western systems place great emphasis on seasonal changes, Indian ones do not place as much emphasis.

Both systems are actually artificial constructs, because each divides the zodiacal circle into 12 equal segments or signs. Neither system accurately reflects the constellations because the constellations are not neatly divided into equal sizes.

Neither system is superior to the other both are equally valid and work well for skilled practioners. What needs to be born in mind is that mixing the two can lead to significant problems.

SkadisPhoenix
26-03-2009, 03:36
Did you check your geocentric sidereal chart?

Honestly I'd prefer using the chart with the planet's real placements but I don't. I wonder why...

As for Horoscope, you might to try : ''Phil booth Horoscope'' website. He is usually very much on target!

Maggie :)

From what I've worked out, true astrological charts need an exact time and place of birth. I was adopted, so I only know that I was born somewhere in London, and that it was around 6pm in the afternoon. It's unfortunately made it hard for me to get proper charts drawn up, which is something I would really like to have done. Also, because of the adoption, I don't have a BIRTH certificate as such, rather an adoption certificate, from what I can work out.

Maggiemay
26-03-2009, 03:43
... plus c'est pareil. ;)

Plus ca change.....

We've run over the precession of the equinoxes several times. In simple terms
it's due to wobbles in the Earth's orbit around the Sun. These wobbles cause the stellar background to shift at a slow but predictable pace.

Oh...ok. So it's the earth's orbit's doing. I was mistaken into thinking that the constellations actually moved...which is not so. I've got to say, sometimes I wish I was part of a real 'star trek' adventures..I'd see space for myself...lol


One of the effects of this wobble is that over a period of 72 years the position of the Earth against the stellar background shifts backward by one degree. So the (Northern) vernal equinox which used to occur at 0 degrees Aries has now shifted back into Pisces.

ok.

Both systems are actually artificial constructs, because each divides the zodiacal circle into 12 equal segments or signs. Neither system accurately reflects the constellations because the constellations are not neatly divided into equal sizes.

Is that what causes the intercepted house effect in a chart?

.....mmhh.. I think I'm confused. ( would not be the first time! lol)

Neither system is superior to the other both are equally valid and work well for skilled practioners. What needs to be born in mind is that mixing the two can lead to significant problems.

Minderwiz, which one do you use? and why?

Thanks,

Maggie :)

Maggiemay
26-03-2009, 03:51
From what I've worked out, true astrological charts need an exact time and place of birth. I was adopted, so I only know that I was born somewhere in London, and that it was around 6pm in the afternoon. It's unfortunately made it hard for me to get proper charts drawn up, which is something I would really like to have done. Also, because of the adoption, I don't have a BIRTH certificate as such, rather an adoption certificate, from what I can work out.

Ohhh.. I'm sorry to hear that, SkadisPhoenix.

I know some astrologers try to do 'calculated guesses' when they don't have the actual time of birth... ( I believe they did it for Jesus Christ)

Would it be inappropriate for me to ask if you have 'hard neptune' aspects in your chart? (If you find my question rudely out of place, please accept my apology in advance.)

Maggie :)

SkadisPhoenix
26-03-2009, 03:59
What do you mean by "hard neptune"? I don't know that much about astrology, though I am interested, mainly because the way I learn about this sort of thing is by looking at MYSELF first, working out how it all fits, and then going on to other people... :)

Maggiemay
26-03-2009, 04:54
What do you mean by "hard neptune"? I don't know that much about astrology, though I am interested, mainly because the way I learn about this sort of thing is by looking at MYSELF first, working out how it all fits, and then going on to other people... :)

''hard Neptune aspects'' : well, I was refering to square or opposite aspects from the planet Neptune to your luminaries ( sun+moon) or your venus ect...

I would certainly not want to lead you astray or worse even, cause any confusion as far as those aspects are concerned. ( As you may have noticed, I am myself inquiring about it on another thread in this forum)

But all in all, It is my understanding that sometimes, Neptune in hard aspect to the luminaries could ( repeat : could) suggest that there was a disillusion of some sort, or even that something got 'dissolved'.
ie: estrangement, alieanation, ect... ( But then again, I have this annoying tendency to want to generalize everything...bad, bad Maggie! lol)

You might want to do some research on that...or at least do some further reading on the topic since, again, I must be clear : I am no expert in astrology and when it comes to Neptune, I find myself in treacherous territory.

Probably others in this forum might be better apt to provide you with some real sensible insight.

As a matter a fact, my approach to this science is very similar to yours.

Best wishes,

Maggie :)

SkadisPhoenix
26-03-2009, 05:28
I will definately be looking into it again, but first, I need to focus on my runes I think. :)

ravenest
26-03-2009, 12:42
We've run over the precession of the equinoxes several times. In simple terms it's due to wobbles in the Earth's orbit around the Sun.

Hi Mindy ... ah! My favourite subject! ;)

Um ... I always thought that the 'wobble' was in the earth's ROTATION not in its orbit around the sun ... how does a 'wobble' occur in a circular orbit ... as opposed to rotation on an axis?

One of the effects of this wobble is that over a period of 72 years the position of the Earth against the stellar background shifts backward by one degree.
I thought it was the position of the backdrop of stars moving from a specific vantage point on earth at the same place, time of year and day. How does one tell if the position of the earth is moving against the stellar background, unless you are off the earth observing it and the stars behind it ?

And of course the position of the earth is not 'moving backward by one degree' is it? Is it not the TILTING and rotating axis that slowly moves back (72 deg / year) against another imagined point in space from the same time place and vantage point on earth one year later?

willowfox
26-03-2009, 15:43
From what I've worked out, true astrological charts need an exact time and place of birth. I was adopted, so I only know that I was born somewhere in London, and that it was around 6pm in the afternoon. It's unfortunately made it hard for me to get proper charts drawn up, which is something I would really like to have done. Also, because of the adoption, I don't have a BIRTH certificate as such, rather an adoption certificate, from what I can work out.

But if you know your date of birth then you can go to the Birth/Deaths registry office over near the Angel and check their books. For any given day there is a list in the books of all the births that particular day, you can then find out who your parents were by sorting through them.

The best thing is to probably just set a chart for midday and concentrate on the planets in signs and their aspects, this alone will supply a lot of information.

Minderwiz
26-03-2009, 20:07
Ahh Ravenest, my old friend,

I was trying to keep the technicalities to the minimum, so I compounded a number of things. Yes, the wobble is in the Earth's rotation, which has an effect on the orbit, in the sense that from a Geocentric point of view the backdrop seems to move backwards.

Is the Earth actually moving backwards?, well it depends on your viewpoint, as Einstein would have said - everything is relative. As the predominant form of Astrology is geocentric, it's best expressed as a geocentric phemomenon. Indeed it's been argued that myths relating to a 'fall' are related to this phenomenon.

SkadisPhoenix
26-03-2009, 21:10
But if you know your date of birth then you can go to the Birth/Deaths registry office over near the Angel and check their books. For any given day there is a list in the books of all the births that particular day, you can then find out who your parents were by sorting through them.

The best thing is to probably just set a chart for midday and concentrate on the planets in signs and their aspects, this alone will supply a lot of information.
The Angel?

It will help that I do know what my parents are/were called, however, I didn't know that I was able to go look at something like that. :D

willowfox
26-03-2009, 21:49
The Angel?

It will help that I do know what my parents are/were called, however, I didn't know that I was able to go look at something like that. :D

Islington. The National births registry office is not far from there, you know where they issue birth certificates from.

When you find the page for your date of birth, there will probably be about 10 names registered for that particular date, then all you have to do is a bit of detective work.

SkadisPhoenix
26-03-2009, 21:52
I know my original name as well. An excellent excuse to visit my sister (who would LOVE the reason too, she's a tarot reader as well, Wiccan, and we share a LOT of the same interests, which is amazing considering we didn't live together! :O :D)

ravenest
28-03-2009, 09:37
Ahh Ravenest, my old friend,

I was trying to keep the technicalities to the minimum, so I compounded a number of things. Yes, the wobble is in the Earth's rotation, which has an effect on the orbit, in the sense that from a Geocentric point of view the backdrop seems to move backwards.

Ah yes ... the wobble would effect the orbit I suppose, not sure how that would effect precession ... but point taken ... it's astrology here - not astrophysics.

Is the Earth actually moving backwards?, well it depends on your viewpoint, as Einstein would have said - everything is relative. As the predominant form of Astrology is geocentric, it's best expressed as a geocentric phemomenon. Indeed it's been argued that myths relating to a 'fall' are related to this phenomenon.
Eh? (his ears prick up) Are you saying that myths related to the 'fall' are related to the phenomena of precession? Interesting indeed! Do you have any references, etc, so I can check that out?

Minderwiz
28-03-2009, 20:02
Read the introduction to Bernadette Brady's book of Fixed Stars. It's a very brief reference but she clearly indicates an effect of precession on the myths of various peoples and the way in which precession lead to a feeling that the old established order had been broken. There is a specific reference to the Genesis myth.

It's only a couple of pages and I would not claim on the basis of that, that stories of a fall must be based on precession, which is why I was careful in my previous post.

Yet it is at the very least an interesting speculation