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Maggiemay
08-04-2009, 22:41
Why do some consider the 29th degree of a sign critical in a negative way?

Anyone care to comment?

Maggie :)

Edited to shorten post.

Bernice
08-04-2009, 22:50
What's your take MM?

Bee :)

Maggiemay
08-04-2009, 23:46
Not sure what to think actually.

I always thought it was cool and I'd be more incline to think that the planet could use qualities from both signs. Ie: the sun at 29th degree cancer, could display cancer qualities as well as Leo's.

But as I mentioned, I'm hearing otherwise. Especially when the moon &/ or saturn are involved.

The 29th degree would suggest a hardship, or a rite of passage of some kind.

Do you know anything regarding that notion?

Maggie :)

Edited : typo error

strangebrew
09-04-2009, 03:20
This is interesting, because i also read that people born on the 29th of the month have "hardships" and challenges..i was born on this date...

Wondering what the significance is here?

anyone?

Maggiemay
09-04-2009, 03:25
This is interesting, because i also read that people born on the 29th of the month have "hardships" and challenges..i was born on this date...

I did not know that. I am even more intrigued now!

However the # 29 is making think of saturn's returns every 29th year. Could it be ''correlated''?

Maggie :)

Edited to add : Where would a practicing astrologer consider a 29th degree planet to be? Would the astrologer consider the planet in both signs? I am really wondering.

strangebrew
09-04-2009, 04:42
Ooohh yes of course saturn return...

how very interesting....!!! I was born on the 29th October and have had many challenges to say the least, maybe the number is significant for "learning"...

..what do you think?

:)

Maggiemay
09-04-2009, 04:49
Honestly? I have to do some digging about that.....I wish I knew.

Yet, It almost sound ''out of sort'', you know what I mean?

Like, why would the 29th of a month be so critical too?

It certainly deserves some looking into. If only to be sure one way or the other.

Regards,

Maggie :)

PS: I know that times are difficult for Scorpios these days... very difficult. In terms of astrological transits, I am not sure I could explain it however.
Hold tight!

strangebrew
09-04-2009, 05:04
Oh Maggie thanks you dont have to explain it...i can FEEEEEL it so bad, having no less than FIVE planets in Scorpio, i feel stretched to the limit....hope it passes soon...

:(

Maggiemay
09-04-2009, 05:46
Oh Maggie thanks you dont have to explain it...i can FEEEEEL it so bad, having no less than FIVE planets in Scorpio, i feel stretched to the limit....hope it passes soon...

:(

ohhh... I am sooo upset for you. But April and May are friendly months for scorpios! I should know, I am a Taurus!

:)))

Maggie :)

Sophie
09-04-2009, 07:03
My Saturn is in the 29th Degree of Pisces. I have an astrologer friend who holds that this is a critical position, not because it's bad, but because it has something to do with the galactic alignment (and I hate this because I can't quote chapter and verse and give any more details) - and that gives the position some kind of doorway to the cosmos.

I have not the faintest clue about that theory, myself. I would tend to say that so close to another sign, a planet is beginning to feel the influences of that other - and sort of "rounding off" its business in its current sign. Saturn doesn't move that fast, so that shifting influence - if there is one - is likely to be felt over a long period of time.

Saturn's not that comfortable in Pisces anyway - far too diffuse for its stern influence! It is an orphan there. Coming up to Aries - a sign in which it is in fall - so not going towards great things either. No pun intended - but integrating Saturn in my life has been a bit of a challenge, to say the least. It's more like a hate-hate relationship, as I baulk at any restriction, though intellectually accept there must be some.

Maybe I should go for that cosmic doorway :D. I can't think what the Old Man would make of such freedom!

Maggiemay
09-04-2009, 07:30
My Saturn is in the 29th Degree of Pisces. I have an astrologer friend who holds that this is a critical position, not because it's bad, but because it has something to do with the galactic alignment (and I hate this because I can't quote chapter and verse and give any more details) - and that gives the position some kind of doorway to the cosmos.
Really? Wow! .... Galactic alignment...It sounds like something right out of Star trek! As a matter a fact it sounds soooo cool, I want my planets to be at the 29th degree too!!!!!!!

Maybe I should go for that cosmic doorway :D. I can't think what the Old Man would make of such freedom!
I am sooooo coming with you! LOL

Thanks for your input, very interesting.

Maggie :)

Sophie
09-04-2009, 07:38
Well, to be honest with you, it sounds like hooey to me, but maybe I'm lacking in imagination - or maybe my Saturn doesn't want me to step through that doorway, which would be pretty typical, really.

I'll ask my friend for more details of that theory next time I see her.

Maggiemay
09-04-2009, 07:42
sure.

If 'galatic alignment' refers to the ''gap'' between two constellations...then it sort of make sense...

If it's talking about the 4th dimension...then I don't know... ( anyways, what is the 4th dimension!!? LOL)

Regards,

Maggie :)

Minderwiz
09-04-2009, 07:57
Where would a practicing astrologer consider a 29th degree planet to be?

Almost certainly he/she would consider it to be in the 29th degree LOL

But you raise a good point. There are many who would say that a sign continues right up to 29 degrees 59 minutes 59.99999 seconds and a planet within a sign is entirely within it. So, I was born with the Sun at 29 degrees 45 minutes of Libra and Jupiter at 29 degrees 58 minutes of Scorpio, the prevalent view would be that the Sun is entirely in Libra and Jupiter entirely within Scorpio. The interpretation would proceed as such.

Most of the modern explanations surround the 29th degree being a planet's last opportunity to express itself in the sign. However the rather negative view of the 29th degree goes back long before the psychologists took over Astrology.

There is an essential dignity known as Terms. Each sign is divided into 5 segments or Terms. Each Term has a ruler and if you consult a table of essential dignities, you will see that the final Term in each sign (the last few degrees) are ruled by either Mars or Saturn, the traditional malefics.

These are called the anaretic degrees and are seen as unfortunate as a result of the unfortunate ruler, the exact starting degree of the last term can very from the 25degree to the 28 th degree but the 29th is always there.

Now I've seen the term 'anaretic' applied to the 29th degree by modern astrologers who clearly have no understanding of why the word is used. These same astrologers will rubbish the idea of the Terms as having a role in modern astrology and then proceed to use an idea based on them without knowing what they are doing.

Maggiemay
09-04-2009, 08:00
Almost certainly he/she would consider it to be in the 29th degree LOL
LOL! You got me there!
Now let me go read the rest of your post!

Maggie :)

Edited to add:
Minderwizzzzzz!!! Tell me, do you actually know EVERYTHING?? LOL


Thank you for your brilliant explanation.

Maggie :)

Maggiemay
09-04-2009, 08:09
DELETED

Sophie
09-04-2009, 17:59
Almost certainly he/she would consider it to be in the 29th degree LOL

But you raise a good point. There are many who would say that a sign continues right up to 29 degrees 59 minutes 59.99999 seconds and a planet within a sign is entirely within it. So, I was born with the Sun at 29 degrees 45 minutes of Libra and Jupiter at 29 degrees 58 minutes of Scorpio, the prevalent view would be that the Sun is entirely in Libra and Jupiter entirely within Scorpio. The interpretation would proceed as such.

Most of the modern explanations surround the 29th degree being a planet's last opportunity to express itself in the sign. However the rather negative view of the 29th degree goes back long before the psychologists took over Astrology.

There is an essential dignity known as Terms. Each sign is divided into 5 segments or Terms. Each Term has a ruler and if you consult a table of essential dignities, you will see that the final Term in each sign (the last few degrees) are ruled by either Mars or Saturn, the traditional malefics.

These are called the anaretic degrees and are seen as unfortunate as a result of the unfortunate ruler, the exact starting degree of the last term can very from the 25degree to the 28 th degree but the 29th is always there. Now that makes a lot of sense. I am still struggling to use the whole table of dignities (sigh) - because of the layers involved.

So: with my Saturn in Pisces at 29 56' 24" - the Term is ruled by Saturn, and the Face by Mars.

That's all very well, but I am not 100% sure how to interpret that information and tie it in with the rest of what I know about my Saturn. Saturn is in its own Term at 29, so presumably, instead of being a bad thing, that would go some way towards alleviating the weakness of my Saturn, which is peregrine in Pisces in the first place. What about the Face? What does it mean if my Saturn is in a decanate ruled by Mars? Is it relevant at all?

Minderwiz
09-04-2009, 19:56
Now that makes a lot of sense. I am still struggling to use the whole table of dignities (sigh) - because of the layers involved.

So: with my Saturn in Pisces at 29 56' 24" - the Term is ruled by Saturn, and the Face by Mars.

That's all very well, but I am not 100% sure how to interpret that information and tie it in with the rest of what I know about my Saturn. Saturn is in its own Term at 29, so presumably, instead of being a bad thing, that would go some way towards alleviating the weakness of my Saturn, which is peregrine in Pisces in the first place. What about the Face? What does it mean if my Saturn is in a decanate ruled by Mars? Is it relevant at all?

Well Saturn is NOT peregrine if it is the Terms ruler (which it is), So Your Saturn is more dignifed than it would be elsewhere in Pisces. Peregrine is the lack of ANY dignity. The situation relative to Mars, is slightly complicated, as Mars is the Triplicity ruler for Water Signs.

Mars does have dignity by Face at the end of Pisces, as you say but Face is the weakest dignity of all (Lilly says that it's slightly better than being completely homeless). So the Term ruler has more dignity than the Face ruler. However as Mars is also the Triplicity ruler Mars would have more dignity IF it were in Saturn's position.

Look at the position of Mars in your chart. If it is in ANY dignity of Saturn then there is mutual reception between them. However if the dignity is Face, then the mutual reception isn't worth much at all.

If Mars is dignified in its position then, assuming mutural reception, there will be some co-operation between them - Saturn can help Mars and vice versa - assuming they have the strength to do so. Saturn's dignity is low, so it won't be able to provide much support. If Mars is strong then Mars can support Saturn. That is there's more decisiveness and drive added to Saturn's role in the chart.

So your Saturn is not as weak as you thought and IF there's mutual reception with Mars (doesn't have to be the same dignity) then Mars and Saturn can co-operate. The extent depends on the amount of dignity each has.

Sophie
09-04-2009, 20:19
Well Saturn is NOT peregrine if it is the Terms ruler (which it is), So Your Saturn is more dignifed than it would be elsewhere in Pisces. Peregrine is the lack of ANY dignity. OK, that is helpful. I had misunderstood "peregrine" to apply only to the main (whole sign) dignities, as they are deemed to be stronger - the absence of one of these making the planet peregrine.

One related question - in counting the points (assessing strengths and debilities) according to Lilly's numbering (http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig5.html) - I take it I would not apply the -5 for peregrine to my Saturn. Would I, however, apply to it the +2 for being in its own Term? (I am assuming yes).

The situation relative to Mars, is slightly complicated, as Mars is the Triplicity ruler for Water Signs.

Mars does have dignity by Face at the end of Pisces, as you say but Face is the weakest dignity of all (Lilly says that it's slightly better than being completely homeless). So the Term ruler has more dignity than the Face ruler. However as Mars is also the Triplicity ruler Mars would have more dignity IF it were in Saturn's position.

Look at the position of Mars in your chart. If it is in ANY dignity of Saturn then there is mutual reception between them. However if the dignity is Face, then the mutual reception isn't worth much at all.

If Mars is dignified in its position then, assuming mutural reception, there will be some co-operation between them - Saturn can help Mars and vice versa - assuming they have the strength to do so. Saturn's dignity is low, so it won't be able to provide much support. If Mars is strong then Mars can support Saturn. That is there's more decisiveness and drive added to Saturn's role in the chart.

So your Saturn is not as weak as you thought and IF there's mutual reception with Mars (doesn't have to be the same dignity) then Mars and Saturn can co-operate. The extent depends on the amount of dignity each has.My Mars is in Scorpio, which it rules, it is in its Triplicity (is that the correct phraseology?), and also (because it's at 3 01') in its Term and Face. And it's in its joy in the 6th House. So my Mars is strong - maybe a bit too strong! :D. But no sign of a mutual reception with Saturn that I can see. Is Mars still able to give Saturn a hand in that circumstance?