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Sophie
11-04-2009, 00:30
If I'm a baby when it comes to natal astrology, I'm a foetus when it comes to horary. But being the curious sort that comes with a lively Jupiter... well, here goes. I have not found the answer to this question in a search here or elsewhere - at least not in a way I understand.

Best way to put it is with an example (invented). Let's say I have builders at my new house, who tell me today that they will be finished with all the works in two weeks. I want to organise a housewarming party, so obviously, when the works are finished is important to me. So I decide to cast an horary asking:

Will the builders be finished in two weeks?


I can't cast it straight away, because the builders are making a racket, but a couple of hours later they have left and I have peace and quiet and can get to work.


What date/time do I use to cast the chart? In two weeks exactly, day to day, hour to hour? The time now? The time the builders told me (2 hours previously?) Another time?


ETA: another (related) question is: does the answer only pertain to the actual question asked (the event happens in two weeks) - or will it also answer whether the event will happen at all? Or would that call for casting another horary chart?


Thanks :)

rif
11-04-2009, 01:06
Will the builders be finished in two weeks?

I can't cast it straight away, because the builders are making a racket, but a couple of hours later they have left and I have peace and quiet and can get to work.


What date/time do I use to cast the chart? In two weeks exactly, day to day, hour to hour? The time now? The time the builders told me (2 hours previously?) Another time?

My understanding is that you use the precise time at which you formulated the question. In this case, as soon as you realized your question and knew that you were asking it, then that is the time that you would use.

If someone else had the question and wanted you to do a 'scope on their behalf, then the moment at which you understood the question is what you would use.

So if you had the question and knew you wanted to cast a horoscope for it, then you had better note the time so you could use it after the builders left. :)

Sophie
11-04-2009, 01:40
What if you don't know the time? You are worrying about your finances and wake up in the middle of the night thinking - "Will I be able to pay the mortgage on time this month?"

Then you fall asleep without noting the time, because you're exhausted from all the worrying.


Would the time you wake up be OK? Or would you try and gauge an approximate time at which you asked yourself the question? Or would you take, arbitrarily, the time at which you cast the horary?


After all, we ask ourselves questions all the time, and some of them are important ones like being able to pay the mortgage, getting married or finishing a contract. We're not always in a position to note the exact time of the question.

Sophie
11-04-2009, 02:39
This is what Lee Lehman writes:

The moment of a horary question is the clock time taken for when the Querent finds it almost impossible to not know the answer any longer.

But that is surely a psychological appreciation? How do we gauge the intensity of desire to know the answer?

Minderwiz
11-04-2009, 02:49
Well you might wake up with such a thought but not take the conscious decision to cast a horary chart. If so the moment is not yet the right one.

Once you have woken you may recall the incident and say to yourself - 'I need to cast a horary on that question', in which case you take a note of the time and, at a convenient time, cast the chart using your noted time (and day if it is a day or two later).

You cast the chart for the moment that you decide that the question needs to be asked, not the moment the issue first raised itself and you began a process which might or might not lead to a horary question. This process may well involve not only the decision to ask a question but a process of deciding exactly what the question should be.

Obviously if you wake in the middle of the night and not only think of the issue but clearly think that you will ask a question and know what that question is, without a shadow of a doubt, then take a note of the time. Clearly if you've gone through the process to get to the decision to ask a question, you are no longer half asleep and you will make a note of the time.

Anything short of a clear decision to ask a specific question, means your process is incomplete and you still need to think about it.

One other point, if you move to a different location during the process, it is the location in which you are when you finally decide the question to be asked. So if you started the process in say, London but have to fly to New York on business and it's only as you are checking in to your NY hotel that you decide on your question, then the horary is set for New York, using the local time and day when you checked into the NY hotel.

Remember, that if you are answering a question for someone else they have gone through a similar process. Indeed they may still be within the process, having decided to consult you but still unsure of what the question shall be. In that case you will discuss it with them, either face to face, by telephone, email, instant messenger or some other means. When they have decided what the question is and ask you, then you take a note of the time and the place where YOU are (which may or may not be the same place as the querent).

So, the horary does not have to be cast straight away. You can even tell your client that you are fairly busy but will get back to them in a couple of days. You have the time, date and place for the chart in your notes.

Edited to add: Our posts crossed so in answer to your last post:

If it's you it's the point where you know what the question is and decide to ask it.

If it's someone else, it's the time that you understand what the question is that they want asking. This might well involve you talking to them about the question and getting the issue clear in your minde. It may also be that this discussion helps to clarify things for them. A point will come when they say 'that's what I want to ask' and you are clear that that is the question that they really do want to ask.

Sophie
11-04-2009, 03:00
OK, that makes sense. So in effect, if I am casting horaries (and because I am practicing, they will be my own questions), I must be vigilant to note the time and date at which I finally arrived at the precise question I want answered.


Now - if the answer to my builders' question is "no" - can I then ask when the works will be finished? Or do I have to go through the whole process of pushing back the time ever further with X number of charts until I get to yes? (can you tell I've dealt with builders? ;))

Sophie
11-04-2009, 03:25
One other point, if you move to a different location during the process, it is the location in which you are when you finally decide the question to be asked. So if you started the process in say, London but have to fly to New York on business and it's only as you are checking in to your NY hotel that you decide on your question, then the horary is set for New York, using the local time and day when you checked into the NY hotel.This begs another question - if you are reading for someone else who is in a different location - do you cast for your location, or for the Querent's location?

Maggiemay
11-04-2009, 03:28
Very interesting post. I know nothing about horary astrology! Now, I know a tiny bit...

Every day one learns something new is a great day!

Thanks fudugazi & Co.

Maggie :)

Minderwiz
11-04-2009, 18:59
Now - if the answer to my builders' question is "no" - can I then ask when the works will be finished? Or do I have to go through the whole process of pushing back the time ever further with X number of charts until I get to yes? (can you tell I've dealt with builders? )
15 Hours Ago 17:49

Well if you thought there was a good chance of overrun but were not sure how long that would be, you would have asked the question 'When will the builders finish the job?' But even if you stuck with the original question it's quite likely you could do a timing for completion from the chart.

Timing in horary can be rather complex because there are several ways of doing it but it can be done. So the horary would give you a good idea not only if they will overrun but how long it will take to completion.



This begs another question - if you are reading for someone else who is in a different location - do you cast for your location, or for the Querent's location?

Usually the answer is that you cast for your own location because it's your understanding of the question that is important for timing and it's the place where you were when you understood that governs the location of the chart.

Now there are times when I've cast for the querent's location when I've received an email question but usually when it's the final phrasing of the question and the time zone issue means that it's several hours later that I get to read the response to a prompt for clarity.

The best strategy is always to keep to your location, which may or may not be the querents.

willowfox
13-04-2009, 02:13
This begs another question - if you are reading for someone else who is in a different location - do you cast for your location, or for the Querent's location?

You are the reader, so you always set up the chart for your location and time.

willowfox
13-04-2009, 02:20
Now - if the answer to my builders' question is "no" - can I then ask when the works will be finished? Or do I have to go through the whole process of pushing back the time ever further with X number of charts until I get to yes? (can you tell I've dealt with builders? ;))

The chart would most likely not say no but would indicate instead that the work would take longer by the significators being in a slow sign, and therefore the aspect between the two would then show a completion of the work but a few weeks or months later. If there were no aspects then the job would never be completed.

willowfox
13-04-2009, 02:27
Waking hours questions are usually quite clear and sharp, and therefore when the question is clear in your head, write it down along with the time.

Questions formulated during sleeping hours tend to be vague musings, so wait for the next day to see if your question becomes clear in your head or not.

Many questions that we ask ourselves are just idle musings and therefore not important in the bigger scheme of things, so usually you will know when a question is worthy of a chart or not.

Maggiemay
14-04-2009, 06:28
I really know nothing about horary, so please forgive me if my question sounds silly. (lol, something tells me that if I am out of my depth, someone will gently let me know anyways! lol)

Do you all have a special computer program that shows the exact placement of each planet at a specific time of the day?

Thanks,

Maggie :)

Sophie
14-04-2009, 07:09
double post

Sophie
14-04-2009, 07:16
Thanks, Willowfox - very helpful! You're right, many questions are not worth the time and effort of a horary, and many a night-time anxiety melts in the light of day. But if you've been wondering about something that affects you - then I guess it's worthwhile spending time formulating the right question.

Which could well be - "where is my fish?" ;)


Maggie, I can only answer for myself - a total beginner in horary - but I will use my normal programme, and key in the details of the horary as I would a birth - with the time, date and location that I want. So if I arrived at a "question" at 10 am this morning and decide to do a chart now, I key in : "10 am, 13/04/09, Granada, Spain", with the question held at the front of my mind as I do so.

BTW - you might want to read these (entertaining!) examples of classical horary at work: two horary readings (http://www.skyscript.co.uk/frawley2.html).

Maggiemay
14-04-2009, 07:47
Maggie, I can only answer for myself - a total beginner in horary - but I will use my normal programme, and key in the details of the horary as I would a birth - with the time, date and location that I want. So if I arrived at a "question" at 10 am this morning and decide to do a chart now, I key in : "10 am, 13/04/09, Granada, Spain", with the question held at the front of my mind as I do so.

BTW - you might want to read these (entertaining!) examples of classical horary at work: two horary readings (http://www.skyscript.co.uk/frawley2.html).

Oh..ok.. I get it.

Thank you soo much for the article Fudugazi! I keenly skimmed through it (rather quickly) and it sounds pretty thorough.
That horary 'thing' is really fascinating. I LOVE it already!!

Just to make sure : in the 'Suzie' example, I'm presuming we would look at the ruler of the 5th house to represent Suzie herself. Right?

Maggie :)

Sophie
14-04-2009, 08:05
I'll leave it to the experts to answer you, Maggie - I'd have thought the 7th, unless you see Susie as a passing fancy.


If you want to go further with horary, Skyscript has a whole free tutorial (http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary_intro.html) about it.

Maggiemay
14-04-2009, 08:27
I understand.

Thanks for everything. I'll be sure to check out the link...

Maggie :)

I'll leave it to the experts to answer you, Maggie - I'd have thought the 7th, unless you see Susie as a passing fancy.


If you want to go further with horary, Skyscript has a whole free tutorial (http://www.skyscript.co.uk/horary_intro.html) about it.

Minderwiz
14-04-2009, 19:59
Oh..ok.. I get it.

Thank you soo much for the article Fudugazi! I keenly skimmed through it (rather quickly) and it sounds pretty thorough.
That horary 'thing' is really fascinating. I LOVE it already!!

Just to make sure : in the 'Suzie' example, I'm presuming we would look at the ruler of the 5th house to represent Suzie herself. Right?

Maggie :)

Depends what relation Suzie is to 'you'. In the context of Frawley's article Suzie is the object of affection but is not yet in any type of relationship with the querent. As a named person Suzie is ruled by the Seventh. This DOES NOT imply that Suzie is a partner, merely that the querent has hopes in that direction.

Frawley uses the Sevemth for lovers, no matter how short term. Lee Lehman uses the fifth for short term lovers - both seem to get good answers. I cheat and look at both LOL

Maggiemay
14-04-2009, 22:24
Now, let's say someone has an upcoming appointment at a specific time, Ex: job interview, April 22nd @ 9:00 am.

I am presuming any questions regarding that appointment should be based on the upcoming appointment date and time.

So, let's say, the person has a burning question regarding the meeting, today April 14th @ 5pm, they would still be better off looking at the chart for the actual appointment date & time. Correct?

Thanks,

Maggie :)

Edited:

For the job interview, I'm guessing we'd want to take a look at the 1st house ( first impression) + 2nd house ( salary)+ 10th house + 9th house ( for job credentials, diplomas ect..) + 3rd house (to see how the communication within the meeting will go down) +6th (working environment) + 12th house ( pitfalls?) + 7th house ( will a deal actually be striked)...

For a doctor's appointment, where would we look? Should we look at mercury? The 6th house? Jupiter?

This thing is a blast!

willowfox
15-04-2009, 02:06
Now, let's say someone has an upcoming appointment at a specific time, Ex: job interview, April 22nd @ 9:00 am.

I am presuming any questions regarding that appointment should be based on the upcoming appointment date and time.

So, let's say, the person has a burning question regarding the meeting, today April 14th @ 5pm, they would still be better off looking at the chart for the actual appointment date & time. Correct?



Not correct, that would be an event chart. A horary chart is about asking questions and can be done at any time.

Maggiemay
15-04-2009, 02:09
Oh, ok! Well that clarifies it!

Thanks Willowfox.

Maggie :)