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Maggiemay
11-04-2009, 03:25
When it comes to the typical square aspect ( 90 degree) between planets that happened to be within friendly elements, I usually don't consider them.

Example : Planet A at 26 degree Aquarius versus Planet b at 4 degrees Gemini.

How do you go about it yourselves?

Thank you,

Maggie :)

Minderwiz
12-04-2009, 08:20
Well your example is an out of sign aspect and there are a quite a few traditional astrologers who would also ignore it.

They would argue that a square must be between Say Fire and Water, or Earth and Fire, Air and Earth, Air and Water, etc. The only distinction made is between the 'Sinister' square - Aries to Cancer is a Sinister square, it goes to the left or against the order of signs,. AS THEY RISE Aries to Capricorn is a Dexter square. It goes to the right or in the order of the signs, AS THEY RISE.

So a planet in Aries naturally looks forward to a planet in Capricorn by square, as Capricorn rises before Aries. It would, metaphorically, have to turn and look backwards to see a planet in Cancer.

A dexter aspect is therefore more direct than a sinister one because it follows the diurnal motion of the Earth. Modern astrologer forget or disregard the idea that 'aspect' comes from the Latin aspectare meaning to view or regard. Line of sight playse a great role in the interpreation of planetary relationships, not degree separtion per se.

So carry on Maggie and disregard those out of sigh aspects. I tend not to be that brave but I do seriously downrate an out of sign aspect and might disregard it if it's at the extreme of it's orb.

Maggiemay
12-04-2009, 09:15
I must confess, I am having some difficulty making a mental picture of the dexter versus sinister square aspects. (not feeling well today...)

I'm guessing it could be compared to a ''stab'' in the front as opposed to a ''stab'' in the back.

As for the rest, I simply cannot afford being as 'rigorous' as you in my approach to astrology! No way Josť! Not with my chart! (Hence my 20 degree orbs for trines & 0 degrees for squares!)lol

Thank you Minderwiz.

Maggie :)

Minderwiz
12-04-2009, 22:21
Sinister and Dexter are Latin for Left and Right and the terms are used for sextiles and trines as well as squares.

The use stems from the geocentric approach to Astrology. Imagine Mercury as a person (or god if you want) and as he rises over the horizon at your place of birth, he looks forward in the direction he's going. Now from an Earth point of view that is a journey through the 12th, 11th and 10th houses to his culmination. He will then descend through the 9th 8th and 7th houses to his setting.

If he is at say 10 degrees Gemini, he will be looking forward through Taurus, Aries, Pisces etc. His dexter square is thus to 10 degrees Pisces (his dexter sextile to 10 degrees Aries and his dexter trine to 10 degrees Aquarius).

It is easier to look where you are going than where you have come from, so he has to turn his head to see Cancer, Leo, Virgo,etc. If he looks backward he will see his sinister sextile at 10 degrees Leo, his sinister square at 10 degrees Virgo and his sinister trine at 10 degrees Libra.

You just have to visualise the heavens as revolving around Earth, on a celestial conveyor belt (the ecliptic) in a clockwise direction as seen by the observer.

It's the ease of looking forward that strengthens the dexter aspect compared to the sinister.

Oh and as out of sign sextiles and trines are also traditionally ignored your 20 degree orb only applies to planets between 10 degrees and 20 degrees of a sign LOL.

Maggiemay
13-04-2009, 00:47
ohhh...Minderwiz!

I don't know if its my splitting headache or my limited understanding...but let me just say; I wish you were next to me... You could draw me the whole thing on paper...

Geez...why is it so hard for me to just get it...

Let me percolate on your post a little bit... perhaps, by some miracle, I will finally get it..LOL

I hope you are having a restful sunday.

Regards,

Maggie :)

ps: Oh yeah...almost forgot : in regards to the out of sign sextiles and trines... I'm thinking, in that little head of mine, that I am going to follow my own rules, AND COUNT THEM IN!!!! I'll just tell people 'YOU' told me to do it! ( I can't stop laughing while imagining your fury!!)

Minderwiz
13-04-2009, 04:07
Well I'm not furious but if you are going to make it as an Astrologer you can't pick and choose ALL the time.

You need to keep to the rules long enough to know WHEN to break the rules. William Lilly converted a square into a trine because he claimed that he was dealing with signs of long ascension, in a horary about whether he should buy some houses.

He literally and metaphorically stretched a point so that he could justify his purchase. But this is one occasion out of hundreds.

Maggiemay
13-04-2009, 05:30
Of course. You are right. I was just kidding. I don't pick and choose even if I wish I could.

That being said, one day I shall ask you what '' signs of long ascension'' are about...but for now...I will concentrate on trying to understand the horary stuff you have been discussing with Fudugazi on her thread and perhaps even..give my sense of humor a well deserved tune up!!! lol

Thank you, Minderwiz.

Maggie :)


Well I'm not furious but if you are going to make it as an Astrologer you can't pick and choose ALL the time.

You need to keep to the rules long enough to know WHEN to break the rules. William Lilly converted a square into a trine because he claimed that he was dealing with signs of long ascension, in a horary about whether he should buy some houses.

He literally and metaphorically stretched a point so that he could justify his purchase. But this is one occasion out of hundreds.