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isthmus nekoi
19-02-2003, 03:24
Later today, the sun is going to enter Pisces so we're going to cover Pisces, Neptune and the 12th house. Like Aquarius, Pisces also has an older, traditional ruler, Jupiter, so if you feel any Piscean vibes from your natal Jupiter, do share!!

For more info about the group, pls go here: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?threadid=8487

isthmus nekoi
19-02-2003, 03:31
Neptune is in Sag/11th, my Sun and Merc are conj in 12th (Cap) and Pisces is cusping my 2nd house. Pisces in my chart isn't as immediately noticable as other signs, but it plays an important role.

12th house sun/merc has been a challenging placement w/interesting results:
- I have a high tolerance for dark, institutional settings. Esp w/the independant energy in my chart, I have an extremely high tolerance for solitude.
- Early limitation in life indicated by a 12th sun is applicable but this may be exagerated (sp!) by a Saturn square Sun placement.
- 12th sun plus strong Scorp energy have driven me to understand psychology/the uncon.
- I do possess a Piscean empathy for ppl who end up in jail (another 12th house thing) or social services. This is not to say I'm attracted to these ppl nor do I excuse their behaviour, but I feel calling human acts 'inhuman' or 'monstrous' just b/c we don't understand them... I don't agree w/this.
- not sure if this is b/c of a 12th sun, but dreams are a *very* important source of energy for me. I recharge when I sleep, and dreaming is totally restorative. I see Merc as a real psychopompus figure when in the 12th.

Pisces on 2nd... This might indicate being loose/generous w/$, but I don't see that I'm more charitable than the next guy!

isthmus nekoi
19-02-2003, 03:48
Nept conj Venus serve to soften my fire/air edge, although they're in Sag, so even these softies are independant and active in my chart. I'm afraid this makes me much less sympathetic than the average person (but perhaps more empathetic?).

I've read Neptune contacts w/Venus also bestow artistic ability. Among the aspects made to these planets in my chart is a quintile from Venus to Jupiter (weaker to Saturn), who are in mutual reception and the depositors of my chart (except for the Mars-Uran mutual reception). If you allow for an orb a little over 1 degree, then Jupiter also quintiles Neptune.
While Nept/Venus are associated w/music and art, I'd have to say that writing, despite it being the most cerebral means of expression IMO, takes on a significant spiritual function for me, maybe b/c my Merc is in 12th?
I definetely 'immerse' myself in art; I am *always* listening to/making music (heck, I sing when I walk down the street!), and improvising at the piano can put me in a weird trace like space to the point where I hyperventilate (of course only when I'm alone, don't want to scare anyone ^_^). I need to compose something everyday, and I'll do it, even if it causes me physical pain! I once had someone tie my hands to stop myself from worsening my stupid tendonitis!! I've read quintiles indicate compulsiveness so there you go :P

Minderwiz
19-02-2003, 06:06
The twelfth is another of the Houses that have had a bad press historically. Mainly because its a cadent House and next to the Ascendant - cadent means basically that its past it LOL and being next to the Ascendant it doesn't form a major aspect to it (like the other bad press Houses, the sixth and the eighth). Deb Houlding also points out that because of its position the stars that are in the eighth tend to be obscured by the acute angle and the light and haze from the Ascendant - it hides the star light.

Manilius described it as a temple of ill omen. and it was a house of bad-luck, slaves, toil, self udoing, hidden enemies, danager, infirmity and even worse foreign countries!

Later on it became associated with prisons, hospitals and other unpalatable institutions, including monastries and convents. It's also the House of large domestic animals such as cattle. The Seventeenth Century Astrologer William Lilly added oxen and elephants for good measure and then added witches (well they had a thing about witches at the time).

The discovery of Neptune in 1846 seems to have been something of a turning point. Neptune was seen as more ethereal, dream like and aspirational. So the solitary confinement of prison became the solitude of contemplation. Jungian psychology have led to the house being associated with the unconscious mind and the urge to merge with something greater than the self. It is also seen as a house of self-sacrifice by modern Astrologers.

As well as secret enemies it now includes anything hidden or secret. Its colour is green and its direction is east south east.

I don't believe that houses are good or bad per se, so against the traditional ill omen, you ought to consider it as covering guardian angels, spiritual teachers, psychics and mediums, karma, your inner strengths and weaknesses and meditation.

Another reason why I tend to be much more positive about the twelfth is that I have Mars, Saturn and Pluto there!!!!!!! - enough to make any traditional Astrologer write me off as doomed from the start - for Me The form a rough Conjunction - Mars to Pluto and then Pluto to Saturn. As my twelfth cusp is in Cancer, the House is ruled by the Moon, although the three planets are actually in Leo and Saturn is conjunct my Ascendant - so I tend to treat it as more of a first House planet.

For me Pisces is on the Cusp of the eighth, no planets in there but it gives my eighth a bit of haziness and lack of definition and perhaps a desire to merge with others through their property, skills, and indeed in other ways as well.

Minderwiz
19-02-2003, 06:54
As well as the links to art, music and beauty Neptune is associated with Dreams and Ideals. It also links to the psychic, the mystic and the prophet.

I tend to see Neptune as a higher octave of Venus - universal love, universal beauty and the universal truth.

However like Venus, Neptune has its downside. It dissolves that which it comes into contact with, so Neptune/Sun contacts may lead to a dissolution of the self or at least the boundary between self and others. Saturn is the planet of boundaries, Neptune is the boundary 'eater'. They may also symbolise an idealised father or father figure.

Neptune also is linked to loss and confusion, self sacrifice and playing the martyr, self-deception and fantasies. It is also linked to anything that is used to induce fantasies, so it has become associated with drug taking (and for that matter drinking alcohol, if the purpose is to lose contact with reality).

Whether Neptune plays a positive or a negative role really depends on house position and aspects from other planets and the general nature of the personality - so look at element balance and the placement of other planets.

So whatever you do don't look at a squre from Venus to Neptune and accuse someone of being a drug addict !!

My Neptune lies in my third House, with sextiles to the Mars/Pluto conjunction. This perhaps softens it a little (Neptune tendency to dissolve) and suggests that the Mars/Pluto conjunction witl communicate itself (third House) through fantasy or through communications media.

Moongold
19-02-2003, 21:00
Minderwiz, it's interesting to see that you really are a heavy duty 12th House person. Is this something that you discovered when you retired and became interested in astrology or is something that you've known for a long time?

I have my Sun, Mercury and Jupiter in the 12th House. I have a Pisces Moon in the 3rd House. I have something called the Part of Fortune there as well. My Neptune is in the 10th House and Libra. My Neptune is sextile Pluto and I understand that is a generational interest in the spiritual life. I am a post WW2 baby boomer, growing up in the 60's and 70's and therefore part of the social/spiritual movememts of those times.

This mix of placements has influenced a lifelong search for meaning and knowledge in some shape or other. I feel that in recent times that search has taken on a more focused and effective dimension. Certainly my interest in Tarot and astrology are part of this .

Some 12th House characteristics, I grew up as a gay woman in a very Catholic family with deeply held views that were quite different from the family view. I have strong memories of that feeling of 'outsiderhood' that is supposedly characteristic of some 12th Housers. I must say that this particular life choice has led me to many happy places and. years later, a respected place in the family. Everyone can change!


I 've worked in human services for the last 18 years, primarily in mental health and addiction and I'm naturally drawn to people on the fringes. More 12th House stuff, for sure. For many years I was almost driven to work with such people, feeling a very strong sense of obligation and affection for many of them.

I tend to be quite introspective but love good conversation with close friends. I love beautiful things and great music, and am a fairly good amateur photographer. The latter interests are Neptunian influences I think, but also materialize the spiritual search.

I am interested in the connections between Pisces as 12th House ruler (containing my Sun) and my Moon in Pisces/3rd , and would welcome other comments. My head is too addled tonight to make good sense of what I read! One book (A spiritual approach to astrology by Myrna Loftus) describes the Sun as our Soul or ego planet and the moon as the thing which represents the sum total of all our souls or lifetimes. Not sure whether that makes it any clearer!

Have a major headache so won't say much more. Clearly I have a long way to go in terms of understanding all these concepts. Just when I think I know, some other layer of "truth" emerges.

I feel really privileged to have discovered this wonderful place and to have travelled some of the way with you wonderful people! Lots of learning and lots of laughs Thanks :laugh:

Moongold

Minderwiz
20-02-2003, 18:23
Damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When Moongold asked me to merge her unintended new thread I pressed all the right buttons but the threads merged the wrong way :(

I'll see what I can do to correct things

Minderwiz
20-02-2003, 18:26
Apologies to Isthmus for getting the merge with Moongold's thread wrong.

This is hopefully a correct version of Isthmus' original thread

isthmus nekoi
21-02-2003, 06:35
Minderwiz> Gave a quick skim and everything seems to be in order, so no worries ^_^ I'm afraid I'm having ISP probs (in the public library right now.... T_T) so you won't be hearing from me again until Sunday! My sincere apologies!

Moongold
21-02-2003, 11:00
Hi Minderwiz and Isthmus<

I didn't even notice what had happened!

I think you'd call this a Grand Trine not a T Square? :laugh: :laugh:

I hope I got that right. Sometimes the aspects get a bit confused, a bit like being on a traffic roundabout.....


Blessings

Moongold

Minderwiz
21-02-2003, 19:22
For me it was more a quincunx - doing the thing and then finding that the result was not what it was supposed to be, which was most irritating and then having to adjust to the new situation by trying to correct the error. :)

The only characteristic that I didn't experience was the need to let go LOL

isthmus nekoi
24-02-2003, 09:48
Minderwiz,

Thanks for the rundown on 12th. Cattle, eh? Perhaps this explains why I can't resist a juicy melt in your mouth steak :P Hey, Pluto in 12th sounds very fitting - the planet of elimination in the 'garbage' house - makes a lot of sense!

Another Neptune/Saturn observation... I have transiting Saturn opposing natal Neptune and the most obvious effect this had was a sudden drop in dream recall. For a while, I was having an uncharacteristically lousy connection w/the dreaming and was waking up feeling like I hadn't fallen asleep!! The transit is still in effect, but trans Neptune's moved to sextile or trine moon, so the dreams are getting more substantial again....

Moongold,
Interesting you should mention photography - Neptune rules over photography and film... if you read up on a lot of the immediate post 68 theory on film, it is *very* Neptunian - all this psychological talk about being absorbed by film, being sutured into film etc. And talk about escapism: so many times I've heard ppl wanted to see a movie to forget life for 2 hours, it almost sounds like a mild drug! :P
Let's see. Moon in Pisces is opposing a Virgo Mars and they are widely squaring Sag Jupiter in 12th. I'd say you may desire to express yourself, but perhaps you find making yourself clear/understood (not one of Pisces' strengths!) is not effortless. Perhaps you feel you are more effective communicating when you are more emotionally detached from the subject at hand. Could it be possible you have a tendancy of getting carried away sometimes?
Sun I would say is the core self that is, it is incorruptable in the sense that no matter how many other placements you have that don't resonate w/your sun sign, sun sign traits will always be the center of your being... although sometimes that's not immediately apparent. Moon I've read as more instinctive, fluctuating, focuses more on needs than existence.
--------

What I find interesting is that we all have multiple placements in 12th... If you check out the charts on our shared account, all except 1 have 12th placements - and I think it's safe to assume none of us are psychopaths ^_~ I'd venture to guess that if you looked at the charts of most ppl who frequent this board, you'll find 12th house as well as Scorp energy activated more than usual... I say this b/c getting in touch w/a higher power (12th), or plumbing below the surface of reality (Scorp) are both important parts of using tarot.... Traditionally, Pisces was associated w/the Moon in tarot, but in the Vertigo deck, it's assigned to the Hanged Man. This ties in w/the whole sacrifice/Christ theme you can read into the card. Another interesting fact about Neptune is that it rules the pineal gland/third eye. This may account for the distorted/visionary/psychic impulse of Neptune that could also benifit the tarot reader.

Oh yeah, just reread my post and realized I might be coming off as some sort of eccentric artist type! Despite the Aqu ASC, that's not a part of my persona; I don't advertise my artistic ability unless the situation calls for it. Rare is the person who has seen personal compositions of mine. Also, I'm semi-joking about the compulsiveness, if I have to cut off the flow for whatever reason, I won't like it but I'll do it. Sometimes you have a real obligation to be there for the flow, but other times, you have to look out for yourself first!

Moongold
24-02-2003, 10:24
Originally posted by isthmus nekoi
Let's see. Moon in Pisces is opposing a Virgo Mars and they are widely squaring Sag Jupiter in 12th. I'd say you may desire to express yourself, but perhaps you find making yourself clear/understood (not one of Pisces' strengths!) is not effortless. Perhaps you feel you are more effective communicating when you are more emotionally detached from the subject at hand. Could it be possible you have a tendancy of getting carried away sometimes?


Hi Isthmus,

Yes, that would probably be true some of the time! :laugh: I also have soft voice and have to work at projecting myself into the world. I've learned a few techniques to help me have more influence in meetings et cetera. It's hard work sometimes!

I've learned not to get carried away verbally or you really lose people and I'm quite a succinct communicator when speaking or training. Writing informally is another matter and sometimes the soul pours out :laugh: Especially here!

Interesting comments about the photography/film. Have loved both since adolescence.

Moongold

isthmus nekoi
25-02-2003, 07:56
Moongold> well, I have to admit, I was being bad and not really paying attn to the rest of your chart... although after all these months, I think I am semi-familiar w/it!!

Personally, despite being a film student I a) don't watch much cinema b/c my tastes are soooooo specific/unusual b) am no fan of working w/celluloid. Digital video of course, w/Mars sextile Uran is a totally different story! I feel right at home cutting up 'film' on a computer.
I wonder which planet would rule digital video - Neptune (b/c you can still make movies w/it) or Uranus (digital, other applications like web/tv etc, prefered choice for indy films, revolutionary impulse - you can't imagine how scared Tinsel town is of DV)....

Moongold
25-02-2003, 19:02
Isthmus and all

Moon in Pisces makes it legitimate to speak a little more about the Moon here. I had no idea of the extent of the Moon’s influence and inspired by this study group have been reading Liz Greene’s The Luminaries .

I know the Moon has had special significance for women since time began but I didn’t really understand why. Leaving history and myth aside, Liz Green explains that the Moon shows something about how we experience and see Mother, and also about how we parent. Moon also describes our feeling nature and shows where we are moulded and shaped by past conditioning. Planets aspecting the Moon generally describe childhood conditioning. Lastly, these asoects influence a woman’s relationship with her own body. The above principles, apart from the very last, are applicable to both men and women.

In my case my Moon is in my Mother’s Sun sign and her Ascend ant is in my Sun sign. Her Sun squares my Sun. Her Moon is in her 8th House and my Moon is also in her 8th House. My Uranus is in Mum's 12th House and her Uranus faces off my Moon. There are many other interesting aspects in each other’s charts but I don’t yet understand how important these actually are. Some may be significant; others may not, and I won’t even attempt to analyse them. I don't know nearly enough to do that. Suffice to say that this theme and discussion have opened up some interesting doors to understanding the self.

Minderwiz has a by-line about the importance of astrology to medicine. There are obviously some interesting implications for psychology and psychiatry in astrology as well. Liz Green is a psychologist I believe and she would also have to be a pre-eminent astrologer

Just to finish off, my Mother and I had a challenging relationship for many years but about the time I was 30 (first Saturn return) we began to develop a really special friendship which more or less continued to her death..

Certainly what I’ve learned about astrology here has enhanced my understanding of family relationships.

Moongold

Moongold
01-03-2003, 07:50
There are some interesting strands to astrological interpretation aren't there? Some are very psychoanalytic and some are quite pragmatic but deep anyway.

I've just been reading Stephen Arroyo's perspectives on the Moon in Astrology, Karma and Transformation and he says a few interesting things about the Moon that are relevant to this Pisces thread (for me):

Moon in Sign signifies the mode of expression which we use most comfortably. Moon in Pieces for me, I think, means that I'm quite comfortable speaking about feelings and love to write. Guess what....I've just started using Tarot to inspire writing - poetry particularly. The ideas are coming fast and free. The challenge is to contain and sculpt them.

Another point Arroyo makes is that the aspects to the Moon reflect how we proiect and express howselves in the outside world. My Moon in Pisces squares Jupiter in the 12th House which is also ruled by Pisces. It sounds like a complicated equation doesn't it? Other natal Moon aspects are Moon sextile Ascendant (Capricorn) and opposing Mars but they're another story

Re Moon sqare Jupiter, one book (Loftus) suggested this aspect is one of dissolving pride. People with this aspect may have an internal fear of facing any negative aspects in their personalities. They may face inner distress from their parents, particularly their Mums (!!!!). Such emotional fears may be overcome by developing a good philosophy of life and realising that everyone has imperfections. Another interpretation would be to develop intuition and psychic abilities, to nurture and so on.

This where challenge, intuition and individuality of interpretation comes in.

Loftus actually sees the aspect *square* as meaning lessons from a past life that we have to learn. Is that your understanding?

We could almost have a separate thread on the luminary signs, couldn't we? On second thoughts you just can't look at one factor in isolation.

Moongold

isthmus nekoi
04-03-2003, 09:14
Moongold, be sure to save up some of that moon info for when we do cancer! ^_^ Maybe we can link back to this thread later :P

As for moon's special significance, this is partly cultural. In Japan, moons are associated w/men. I imagine a link would have been forged b/c of the menses cycle, as well as its connection to fertility in general. Western discourse has long separated moon/fertility/earth/material/animal and suchlike from transcendance/spiritual/rational/human which of course are each in turn associated w/female (animal) and male (human) respectively.
Just a little jaunt down etymology lane... mammals - in which humans are classified as other animals - refers to breasts/female where as sapiens (as in Homo sapiens) refers to knowing/rationality which is gendered as male - making "masculine traits" implicitly what separates us from animals.

Having said all that... I personally associate the moon w/feminine. I don't see anything wrong w/it.

purplefishy
13-03-2003, 03:00
Hello....just checking in with the study group info! yay! OK, so, i'm a Pisces sun. In my chart I have sun trine ascendent and moon trine ascendent. So what could this mean for me personally?

As far as Neptune is concerned, Neptune Sextile Pluto 0°59, Saturn Square Neptune 2°29. I have no idea what this would mean exactly oh and Mercury Square Neptune 0°58.

As far as the planetary positions are concerned, Neptune is in Saggitarius in my natal chart. (It has the word 'direct' after it- what is this?)
12th House- I have Libra and Pluto both.


Thanks for all the info so far. I've really learned a lot!

isthmus nekoi
13-03-2003, 07:53
hi purplefishy! Welcome to the group! I'm a little busy right now, but a reply is coming ^_^

Just to let you know, you're welcome to post your chart onto the study group's group account at astro.com. Just PM lunalafey for the account name and password.

purplefishy
13-03-2003, 08:14
Oh! OK, thank you!

RingTheory
16-03-2003, 21:36
This may sound strange, but can anyone find Mr. Rogers' astrological chart? He was the guy who had a children's television show for years, and recently passed away. I've searched the internet over and over, but have come up empty-handed.

The reason I'm posting this here is that I've heard he had his sun, moon, mercury, venus and mars all in Pisces. I'd really like to look at his chart, especially with regards to his third, fifth, and twelth houses.

Purplefishy, your sun trine ascendent makes your sunsign take on Leo traits-you're charismatic, creative and good natured. The moon trining your ascendent boosts your imagination, as well as your nuturing capablilty. Neptune sextile Pluto will help imaginative ability further.

Mercury square Neptune will add imagination, too, but this aspects tends to give you an erratic memory. The square makes you remember unimportant events, but forget more important ones.

The other square you mentioned, saturn and pluto, will give you a tendency to worry over nothing, and blow small problems way out of proportion. The good news is , with this aspect, you can take a far-fetched dream and put it into reality, surprising even your self with the results.

Hope that helped alittle. As for myself, I have nothing in Pisces, but have a nasty pluto/mars square, and other aspects, which make me tend to be obsessed with things like Mr. Rogers' chart. All fish, just fascinated me....

isthmus nekoi
17-03-2003, 10:18
Hi purplefishy! I'm back:

Sun/Moon trining ASC would indicate to me an easy flow of the fundemental ways in which you function. Was it you that have Scorp ASC and Cancer moon? If so, you may have a grand trine. Do your ASC/moon degrees trine each other too?

In any case, very watery indeed! Even if these are the only water placements in your chart, water is very strong here. Pisces sun coupled w/watery ASC/Moon as well as a 12th house placement could indicate receptivity and empathic potential. However, b/c your Neptune has hard (square) aspects, I wouldn't expect psychic abilities, or if they are there, you may have some difficulties living w/them (which could be offset or exaggerated by other aspects). Unless you have strong earth placements, you may come off as kind of spacey. Not shallow, or ditzy, but sort of "out there", perhaps even very spiritual.

RingTheory, you might want to check out http://www.stariq.com
They did a story about Mr. Roger's death a little while back, so they've probably posted a natal chart. It might be in the archives somewhere.

>I have nothing in Pisces, but have a nasty pluto/mars square
*lol* Heeey, don't knock the Mars/Pluto square! It's scary, not nasty :P Put those two together in a hard way and it spells: POWER.

isthmus nekoi
17-03-2003, 10:27
Another transiting Saturn opposing natal Neptune effect:
I recently had an uncharacteristic drop in my immune system and came down w/a weird stomach flu!!! The worst part is, I had no idea I was sick (until I puked, jeez) b/c it's really been years since I've had the flu. I can honestly say it's been close to a decade. Darn Saturn!! Oh well, it's nice to remember what it feels like.

Anyways, I think my little trip into nausea gave me a theory as to why Neptune rules the immune system. I personally would've though it'd be Mars b/c I think of the immune system as a little army of cells. But when you're sick, it makes it a little easier to hallucinate and get in touch w/god. It's like drugs, meditation and fasting which fall under Neptune's domain. Or maybe I'm still delerious :P

purplefishy
17-03-2003, 11:33
Thanks! Yeah that's a ASC Scorpio and Cancer moon i've got there. The only earthy signs i have are Capricorn in my 3rd (that's an earth sign, right?) and Taurus as my descendant but i'm not sure what else. I'll have to look at astro.com again to see.

isthmus nekoi
18-03-2003, 02:55
purplefishy> you're welcome! I should also mention that having a strong Saturn placements or favourable aspects to Saturn will tone down a dreamy temperment. Everyone will have earth signs cusping houses. Any placements (ie planets in the signs) within Capricorn, Taurus, Virgo can ground your imagination in practicality, and any placements in air signs (Gemini, Libra, Aquarius) will lend a more analytical, abstract flavour.

Cancer moon + Pisces sun indicates to me someone who is very caring and sensitive. Scorp ASC adds intensity and secrecy to this. People should know better than to mess around w/your feelings! esp if there is a grand trine b/w these three, the way you live your life and the way others perceive you may have a sort of cohesion and less contradiction than other ppl.

purplefishy
18-03-2003, 04:12
Here's the data from astro.com, cut and pasted. I am a complete novice so I have not a clue what any of this means. Hopefully this gives you a better picture.

Sun Pisces 6°49'43 04 direct
Moon Cancer 15°53'49 09 direct
Mercury Pisces 21°30'05 05 stationary (R)
Venus Aries 19°08'22 06 direct
Mars Virgo 05°21'50 10 retrograde
Jupiter Virgo 05°05'16 10 retrograde
Saturn Virgo 24°56'41 11 retrograde
Uranus Scorpio 25°33'56 01 stationary (R)
Neptune Sagittarius 22°27'57 02 direct
Pluto Libra 21°28'30 12 retrograde
True Node Leo 29°17'54 10 direct

Note: I have been to an astrologer who has told me that My Sun-Pisces is actually in my 5th not 4th house, but she could have been wrong. Or, it could have been on a cusp and she just interpreted it as being in the 5th.

RingTheory
18-03-2003, 06:24
Thanks for the link, Isthmus Nekoi. I couldn't find that specific chart, but spent an hour or two reading all the articles there. Then I became curious about purplefishy and looked at his/her chart.

I use Regiomontanus houses, that put the sun smack dab in the middle of the fourth. Now, Mercury looks like the planet in the 4th/5th. It's most often interperted in the 5th, maybe holding a little of 4th house characteristics. So, the sun in the 4th would mean your home is where you're the most comfortable, maybe even working from home. Mercury in Pisces in the fifth gives creativity, and good intuition regarding children and recreation. Well, now Venus is kind of on the edge of the 5th/6th, so the same goes, it's in the 6th. In Aries, means you're direct in love, may mean you'll work in fashion, cosmetics, or another Venus-type area, or you'll be prone to office romances.

Yep, there's a grand trine there, in water. Will make you super-creative and highly imaginative. Expressing emotions comes very easy to you. And you do have those three planets in Virgo, all in retrograde, which can ground you, especially mars and jupiter in the 1oth. MC is Leo...hmmm...back to the children and recreation ability, a career in these areas?

Do you hate large crowds, big parties? Virgo in the 11th will tend to make you picky about who you associate with. And moon in Cancer in the 9th makes things like astral travel so easy for you. Outwardly rebellious, with Uranus in the 1st? This gives you Aquarian traits to other people.

Okay, so you have a couple of T-squares. A tight one in mutables, a looser one in cardinals. You've probably already corrected them by trial and error, but look at Gemini in the 8th, and Capricorn in the 3rd. Traits associated with those will balance you out, if you haven't already developed them.

I didn't look at the aspects much, but I hope you haven't been misjudged , sun opposing jupiter, or have trouble expressing or receiving anger, sun opposing mars. Sensitivity, adaptability scream out to me , and there's still nodes, asteroids, and so on . I want to see what Istmus says, I liked the pluto/mars square take. Just curious , does mercury trine uranus as it does with purplefishy, as well as myself? It's supposed to give you an interest in astrology, guess just one of many, though. And what's your take on Chiron that close to the descendan there? Libra moon makes me argue with myself all the time...

purplefishy
18-03-2003, 06:38
Then I became curious about purplefishy and looked at his/her chart.

i'm a she :-)



Okay, so you have a couple of T-squares. A tight one in mutables, a looser one in cardinals. You've probably already corrected them by trial and error, but look at Gemini in the 8th, and Capricorn in the 3rd. Traits associated with those will balance you out, if you haven't already developed them.


How do you correct them? I'm not familiar with the terminology here...

I hope you haven't been misjudged , sun opposing jupiter, or have trouble expressing or receiving anger, sun opposing mars

That's really interesting, because I often worry about the way others will judge what I do, whether my actions will be misjudged etc, and I have had problems with expressing and receiving anger.


thanks for all the great interpretation !

RingTheory
19-03-2003, 21:20
T-Squares are formed when two planets in opposition to each other square a third planet. The planet not in opposition is the focal point of the T-square.

You have Saturn in Virgo in the the 11th forming a rather tight opposition to Mercury in Pisces in the 5th, both hard squaring the Neptune in Sagittarius in the 2nd. The Neptune is the focal point, where problems caused by the stressful aspects can manifest.

This placement can you to react in ways that just annoys the squaring planets. Neptune in Sagittarius in the 2nd can cause you to, among other things, to think money is dirty or unattainable somehow, make you prone to substance abuse, and make you be taken the advantage of. I thought this T-Square in mutable signs was particulairly significant, since you're low in fire, you probably funnel more energy than usual into your Neptune here.

If you drew the connecting lines to these three planets, it'd form a T. T's aren't symmetrical, not a good thing in astrology. The way to correct a T-Square is to draw another line to the other mutable sign, and go out of your way to cultivate the qualities of the house/sign placement. This gives you Gemini in the 8th, so talking and thinking about Scorpio-like issues, such as the occult, sex, death, anything tranformational, and exploring these topics in any kind of communications will "fix" the T-Square.

I thought you might have already done so, since water-heavy people tend to intutively fix problems. Same applies with the cardinal one, Capricorn in the 3rd satisifes the other three cardinal signs. I have a T-Square worse than yours there, and cardinal signs can be the worst, since that's where you start things.

Capricorn in the 3rd? Oraginize, control, manage, be cynical, deliberate, practical with any neighbors, siblings, friends, or communications, to help the problems you can have with the focal planet here being the Moon in the 6th, which can make you over-emotional, moody, misunderstood, and taken the advantage of by others.

Pluto in Libra in the 12th can give you supressed rage also, but also the ability to heal and help others, and a great vision of social/legal reform.

No answer yet, but your Chiron is in Taurus, in the 6th, very close to the Taurus descendant. Hope not to offend you, but that ought to give you self-esteem issues, huge feelings of inadequency, all unfounded. There's an enormous capacity to teach and heal others again here, but I wonder if you're aware of these things at all, since it is at the decendant....

purplefishy
20-03-2003, 05:50
Wow...really insightful.


Pluto in Libra in the 12th can give you supressed rage also, but also the ability to heal and help others, and a great vision of social/legal reform.

I could identify with this totally.... and so could my ex (about the rage part). Hee.

I'm also rather sarcastic and cynical at times which was another thing that jumped out at me.

Self esteem issues? No offense taken. i used to have them, maybe to a far lesser degree still do, but I don't think anyone can claim to be totally free of them.

A question about Neptune: if Neptune moves through your house of "Home" for the next 25 or so years (like it is in my chart slated to do I think- you can check up on that for me if you like) then does that mean you'll live near the water?

isthmus nekoi
20-03-2003, 07:30
purplefishy> one thing I might add is that having the 10th mars/jupiter opposing sun in 4th might create a conflict b/w work and home. I imagine if you're working that you've found some way to resolve the strict dichotomy our society has made b/w work and family. You may feel more keenly than most, the pull b/w home and work, balancing the desire to serve others, while having a space for yourself, your self expression etc.

Since your moon is in cancer (the sign it rules) it could be the final dispositor of your chart and therefore, I imagine you are very Cancerian since your sun is in 4th, which is also ruled by Cancer.

p.s. I haven't much experience in terms of chart interpretation, I could very well be off....

RingTheory> Glad you liked my take on the mars/pluto connection. Brings out a lot of scorpio fun in my air/fire heavy chart.

Merc doesn't trine Uran, but my Uran is a very busy planet... Any 12th house placements by any chance? Seems to be a house that keeps coming up here!

RingTheory
20-03-2003, 22:27
purplefishy,

Jupiter conjuncts Mars, both in Virgo and both in the 10th house. If this aspect is handled well, it can give you enormous drive+luck in a career. Saturn is in Virgo as well, so there's a tendency to strive for perfection and examine each and every detail.

Neptune ingressing the 4th can, depending on aspects it makes then, increases your imagination, emotions, and dreams, especially in the home. It can give delusions even, so if it's making a square or opposition to another planet, that's the problem area. It's better to dream and create at home, and make practical decisions somewhere else . In a little while, it'll be directly oppsite the Leo MC, which could make you change and work or study in a field you would have never thought of beforehand. It probably around then be a good time to live or work around water, since that'd affect the AC and moon also, and you'd accomplish more. Did it by hand, and got Mercury is Pisces as a final dispositor? If that's true, it makes living near water doubly important.

isthmus nekoi> I have a completly empty 12th, and I now remember I do have Chiron ingressing Pisces in the 11th. Told it gives you problems with guilt, a desire to save the world, and make and lose friends quickly, and join group after group. Nothing major is even transiting the 12th for a long, long, time. Pathetic.

purplefishy
22-03-2003, 14:25
Is it possible to tell when it will be directly opposite the Leo MC? That would be interesting to know, as i'm graduating from uni in a few months and still have no idea what to do!

RingTheory
23-03-2003, 18:17
delete

rcb30872
07-08-2005, 03:23
Hi

This is my chart that I had done through the FutureMinders:

Sun 7 Vir 24
Moon 26 Tau 29
Mercury 20 Leo 24
Venus 21 Can 37
Mars 9 Vir 58
Saturn 19 Gem 37
Uranus 16 Lib 12
Neptune 2 Sag 34
Pluto 0 Lib 58
Asc. 22 Cap 14
MC 27 Sco 32
2nd cusp 21 Pis 43
3rd cusp 3 Tau 08
Jupiter 28 Sag 32
6th cusp 2 Can 02

Tropical Placidus Daylight Saving Time observed
GMT: 17:00:00 Time Zone: 0 hours West
Lat. and Long. of birthday: 52 N 38 1 E 17

ASPECTS and ORBS:

Conjunction : 7 Deg. 00 Min
Opposition : 6 Deg. 00 Min
Square : 6 Deg. 00 Min
Trine : 6 Deg. 00 Min
Sextile : 5 Deg. 00 Min

So according to what the interpretation says, with Pisces being on 2nd House Cusp says that I can be a bit disorganised with my finances. It also says that I should not be trusting of employers and all that sort of stuff. It also says that people will offer help to me but I need to learn how to be by myself and not to be over dependent on other people.

I will have to agree, I can be a bit too trusting in relation to the above mentioned. As for the overdependence on other people I can relate to that as well, but at the same time I am doing the bit about learning how to be by myself. I have learnt that it is better that way sometimes, as at times I have been overly disappointed when the people thought that I can rely on have been unreliable. I have come to the conclusion that in some ways you are better being on your own, and that if you can try to do something yourself, you may be pleasantly surprised, and on top of that you can do it according to your schedule and not theirs!

I won't say anything about Pisces (as in the Sun sign), as I have had a bad experience with one, and it may cloud my opinion and what I would write!

Bec

isthmus nekoi
07-08-2005, 07:56
No problem w/joining the study group late, that's why the threads were never closed :) (Although I do admit, reading my earlier posts are a little embarrassing, esp since I disagree w/things I've written now lol)

---

Pisces on the 2nd house cusp doesn't necessarily mean you will poorly manage finances or be swindled. In your case, Jupiter, traditional ruler of Pisces, is at home in his own sign, Sag, which is not a bad placement at all.

Pisces is also on my 2nd, 8th house Jupiter conjunct Saturn in 8th, sextile moon, square sun, trine ASC and Mars. 11th house Neptune, co-ruler of Pisces is conjunct Venus. Money and getting income has never been a serious concern of mine.

prudence
11-08-2005, 02:23
Hi purplefishy! I'm back:

Sun/Moon trining ASC would indicate to me an easy flow of the fundemental ways in which you function. Was it you that have Scorp ASC and Cancer moon? If so, you may have a grand trine. Do your ASC/moon degrees trine each other too?

In any case, very watery indeed! Even if these are the only water placements in your chart, water is very strong here. Pisces sun coupled w/watery ASC/Moon as well as a 12th house placement could indicate receptivity and empathic potential. However, b/c your Neptune has hard (square) aspects, I wouldn't expect psychic abilities, or if they are there, you may have some difficulties living w/them (which could be offset or exaggerated by other aspects). Unless you have strong earth placements, you may come off as kind of spacey. Not shallow, or ditzy, but sort of "out there", perhaps even very spiritual.

Been readng all of these old threads that Bec brought out for us (thanx Bec! :D)....thought I would start with Pisces, as it seems to occupy the most space in my natal chart.

I pulled Purplefishy's info, as it seems relatively similar to mine. I may try to put in a link to my chart (but with my history of failed links, and merc retro, I am not too confident!!) ...so will just type it in......

Sun; 00 deg PIS, it trines my Jupiter, and squares my Neptune. 12th House

Moon; 16 deg LEO, it trines my Mars and my MC (but it looks to be in a bad relationship to my Merc) 11th House

Merc; 8 deg AQU, it squares my Jupiter and Saturn, it trines my Uranus.

Venus; 7 deg PIS, it trines my Sun and my Jupiter? (is that the correct way to say that? or is it in a trine with my sun and Jup?) It squares my Neptune:( It is conjunct my North Node, and also conjuct my Sun. 12 House

Mars; 19 deg ARIES, it trines my MC. (MC 24' SAG) 1st House

Jupiter; 5 deg SCORP, it's in opposition to my saturn. 8th House

Saturn; 4 deg TAUR, looks like it is in a trine with my MC 2nd House

Uranus; 8 deg LIB 7th House

Neptune; 0 deg SAG 9th House

Pluto; 26 deg VIR 7th House

North Node is 11 degrees PIS 12th House

Asc: 22 deg PIS 1st House

MC: 24 deg SAG 10th house

Ok, so I have a fair amount of water, in this chart. But, as I have recently been reading, with my Sag MC I am thinking this gives more weight to the fire element in my chart, of which my Leo moon plays a part. (I don't mean more weight than water in my chart, but, it seems to balance it, maybe it actually just gives it more intensity, I am not sure yet!)

The watery aspect of my natal chart is also given more of a watery feel due to all of the 12th house placements. 3 isn't a ton of placements, but, it sure feels like an ample amount to me. My sun, venus, northnode, and asc all being PIS, leaves me feeling a bit...hmm, I'll just say sensitive. Having grown up rejecting every piscean trait of mine, and wishing I was any other sign in the zodiac, it is funny now, to look at this chart. I can see there was no escaping that Pisces stuff!

Now, I am expressing myself thru art, finally, allowing myself to do what is fairly natural to me, and it helps a lot. And it's fun.

I am not sure what to make of the Pis ASC in the 1st house, with my Mars in Aries in there, I hope they are friendly to each other. :D My Asc is right on the cusp of my 12th house. This must mean something. (no Diva Midori jokes please :D)

purplefishy
11-08-2005, 16:58
Hey! Good to see we haven't given up on Pisces yet.
Your chart feels more balanced than mine for some reason. Could be all the fiery elements floating around in there that I really don't have. Especially with a Leo Moon. Wow! That must be a trip. But, with Pisces placed in 4 areas of your chart, no wonder you feel really watery. Just like me...
Very interesting.

prudence
12-08-2005, 01:15
Hi PF, I like that word! Balanced! I would embrace balance! I seem to run to extremes when I am not careful, I have noticed. I see you have Leo as your MC. How does that placement feel to you?

Would love to hear what your sensitivities are, like empathy or whatever....and how you work with them. How do you express yourself artistically? If any of this is too personal, I totally understand! No pressure to answer! :D I guess I don't run across a lot of very Piscean/Neptunian people to get the chance to ask these questions! Where is your 12th House placement, I am having a hard time finding it in the thread...Hey we need a fishy emoticon for this thread! :D


Also, what is all of this business about the House of the Good Daemon/House of Bad Daemon? I have placements in both the 11th and 12th houses, does this mean I am good and bad?:( ;) ...

Thanks for your input.

isthmus nekoi
12-08-2005, 01:48
Hey there, Astrid. You have a very strong Jupiter energy in your chart. Sag and Pisces are square, but both traditionally ruled by Jupiter so I consider it an easier square b/c they are quite similar in some ways.

Some keywords for Jupiter are: expansion, optimism, growth, abundance, generosity, religion/philosophy, and if taken to an extreme: excessive, judgemental etc. Do you ever find these themes playing out in your life?

prudence
12-08-2005, 02:12
Hi Isthmus

Yes, those themes play out quite often in my life! :D

Can be all of the things you described, excessively generous, but it always feels sooo good to give, like a high almost. I feel I am truest to my nature when in the act of giving. That is when I feel the most like "me". Not sure if I have explained that very well, it is hard to put into words.

I tend to be optimistic,but can be negative also. Religion/philosophy...well, I am pretty spritual, but not into any rule bound dogma, pagan or not. I connect spiritually when I am out in nature (even my own backyard will suffice)....

Does this mean my chart is more Jupiterian than Neptunian?

isthmus nekoi
12-08-2005, 02:22
Good question... Your Neptune is in Sag/9th (Jupiter's sign and house) so it deposits to Jupiter! So there is a close link there too. It seems to me from your chart though, that both planets are pretty active... Perhaps you can think about some Neptune key words too: dissipation, nebulous, dissolution, deception, illusion, fantasy, permeability etc.

prudence
12-08-2005, 02:44
yes all of those keywords are present.......though only recently have I come to understand what that means to me specifically, like boundaries b/w me and others.....how they feel, how I feel, sometimes gets blended together....I would like to hear how others deal with this issue.....sometimes different places have energies that are really intense (good or bad) and I am loathe to prevent it from affecting me. Though I am learning new ways to deal, the really strong energies are still difficult.

purplefishy
12-08-2005, 14:01
"I see you have Leo as your MC. How does that placement feel to you?"

Honestly, I've forgotten what the MC is.
Heh.


"Would love to hear what your sensitivities are, like empathy or whatever....and how you work with them. How do you express yourself artistically? If any of this is too personal, I totally understand! No pressure to answer! I guess I don't run across a lot of very Piscean/Neptunian people to get the chance to ask these questions! Where is your 12th House placement, I am having a hard time finding it in the thread...Hey we need a fishy emoticon for this thread!"

Sometimes (most days) I feel mentally ill- no joke. And my friends seem to think I'm scary psychic- though I think i'm just intuitive. Highly, highly intuitive. Case in point, my phone vibrated at me and I knew who was calling without looking at it. I knew a friend was going to leave her job before she knew- by at least a week. The list goes on and on.
Artistically, I'm a writer and i'm a poet. I knit, I make things. I've been known to paint on rare occasions. I also tend to be very escapist and bit reclusive. Trouble making decisions makes it hard to go outside on those days. Drinking has never been something I've been afraid of doing a bit...
I'm also an organizatioinal nightmare. Other than all that...I'm really quite social and normal. heh.
Word to what you said about extremes. I'm very extreme- no middle of the road for me. Ever. And I think obsessive goes along with that.



12th house placement is in Libra Rx.

prudence
12-08-2005, 14:55
Hi PF and thanks for the honesty of your replies. It is very odd to read someone else's words describing so closely how I feel a large amount of the time! :D Like a strange word mirror......I used to write nonstop in my younger years( Though I didn't think of this as Piscean back then, it was just an urge, sometimes an obsession :D) and have turned most recently to sculpting, it is soothing to me. (I can get obsessive with this also tho, like walking away from a piece that isn't quite "right" is nearly impossible)

Thanks for sharing!! :D :D