study group application ~ Pisces

study group application ~ pisces

Later today, the sun is going to enter Pisces so we're going to cover Pisces, Neptune and the 12th house. Like Aquarius, Pisces also has an older, traditional ruler, Jupiter, so if you feel any Piscean vibes from your natal Jupiter, do share!!

For more info about the group, pls go here: http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?threadid=8487

houses

Neptune is in Sag/11th, my Sun and Merc are conj in 12th (Cap) and Pisces is cusping my 2nd house. Pisces in my chart isn't as immediately noticable as other signs, but it plays an important role.

12th house sun/merc has been a challenging placement w/interesting results:
- I have a high tolerance for dark, institutional settings. Esp w/the independant energy in my chart, I have an extremely high tolerance for solitude.
- Early limitation in life indicated by a 12th sun is applicable but this may be exagerated (sp!) by a Saturn square Sun placement.
- 12th sun plus strong Scorp energy have driven me to understand psychology/the uncon.
- I do possess a Piscean empathy for ppl who end up in jail (another 12th house thing) or social services. This is not to say I'm attracted to these ppl nor do I excuse their behaviour, but I feel calling human acts 'inhuman' or 'monstrous' just b/c we don't understand them... I don't agree w/this.
- not sure if this is b/c of a 12th sun, but dreams are a *very* important source of energy for me. I recharge when I sleep, and dreaming is totally restorative. I see Merc as a real psychopompus figure when in the 12th.

Pisces on 2nd... This might indicate being loose/generous w/$, but I don't see that I'm more charitable than the next guy!

planets

Nept conj Venus serve to soften my fire/air edge, although they're in Sag, so even these softies are independant and active in my chart. I'm afraid this makes me much less sympathetic than the average person (but perhaps more empathetic?).

I've read Neptune contacts w/Venus also bestow artistic ability. Among the aspects made to these planets in my chart is a quintile from Venus to Jupiter (weaker to Saturn), who are in mutual reception and the depositors of my chart (except for the Mars-Uran mutual reception). If you allow for an orb a little over 1 degree, then Jupiter also quintiles Neptune.
While Nept/Venus are associated w/music and art, I'd have to say that writing, despite it being the most cerebral means of expression IMO, takes on a significant spiritual function for me, maybe b/c my Merc is in 12th?
I definetely 'immerse' myself in art; I am *always* listening to/making music (heck, I sing when I walk down the street!) I've read quintiles indicate compulsiveness so there you go

The twelfth is another of the Houses that have had a bad press historically. Mainly because its a cadent House and next to the Ascendant - cadent means basically that its past it LOL and being next to the Ascendant it doesn't form a major aspect to it (like the other bad press Houses, the sixth and the eighth). Deb Houlding also points out that because of its position the stars that are in the eighth tend to be obscured by the acute angle and the light and haze from the Ascendant - it hides the star light.

Manilius described it as a temple of ill omen. and it was a house of bad-luck, slaves, toil, self udoing, hidden enemies, danager, infirmity and even worse foreign countries!

Later on it became associated with prisons, hospitals and other unpalatable institutions, including monastries and convents. It's also the House of large domestic animals such as cattle. The Seventeenth Century Astrologer William Lilly added oxen and elephants for good measure and then added witches (well they had a thing about witches at the time).

The discovery of Neptune in 1846 seems to have been something of a turning point. Neptune was seen as more ethereal, dream like and aspirational. So the solitary confinement of prison became the solitude of contemplation. Jungian psychology have led to the house being associated with the unconscious mind and the urge to merge with something greater than the self. It is also seen as a house of self-sacrifice by modern Astrologers.

As well as secret enemies it now includes anything hidden or secret. Its colour is green and its direction is east south east.

I don't believe that houses are good or bad per se, so against the traditional ill omen, you ought to consider it as covering guardian angels, spiritual teachers, psychics and mediums, karma, your inner strengths and weaknesses and meditation.

Another reason why I tend to be much more positive about the twelfth is that I have Mars, Saturn and Pluto there!!!!!!! - enough to make any traditional Astrologer write me off as doomed from the start - for Me The form a rough Conjunction - Mars to Pluto and then Pluto to Saturn. As my twelfth cusp is in Cancer, the House is ruled by the Moon, although the three planets are actually in Leo and Saturn is conjunct my Ascendant - so I tend to treat it as more of a first House planet.

For me Pisces is on the Cusp of the eighth, no planets in there but it gives my eighth a bit of haziness and lack of definition and perhaps a desire to merge with others through their property, skills, and indeed in other ways as well.

As well as the links to art, music and beauty Neptune is associated with Dreams and Ideals. It also links to the psychic, the mystic and the prophet.

I tend to see Neptune as a higher octave of Venus - universal love, universal beauty and the universal truth.

However like Venus, Neptune has its downside. It dissolves that which it comes into contact with, so Neptune/Sun contacts may lead to a dissolution of the self or at least the boundary between self and others. Saturn is the planet of boundaries, Neptune is the boundary 'eater'. They may also symbolise an idealised father or father figure.

Neptune also is linked to loss and confusion, self sacrifice and playing the martyr, self-deception and fantasies. It is also linked to anything that is used to induce fantasies, so it has become associated with drug taking (and for that matter drinking alcohol, if the purpose is to lose contact with reality).

Whether Neptune plays a positive or a negative role really depends on house position and aspects from other planets and the general nature of the personality - so look at element balance and the placement of other planets.

So whatever you do don't look at a squre from Venus to Neptune and accuse someone of being a drug addict !!

My Neptune lies in my third House, with sextiles to the Mars/Pluto conjunction. This perhaps softens it a little (Neptune tendency to dissolve) and suggests that the Mars/Pluto conjunction witl communicate itself (third House) through fantasy or through communications media.

My Pisces experiences

Minderwiz, it's interesting to see that you really are a heavy duty 12th House person. Is this something that you discovered when you retired and became interested in astrology or is something that you've known for a long time?

I have my Sun, Mercury and Jupiter in the 12th House. I have a Pisces Moon in the 3rd House. I have something called the Part of Fortune there as well. My Neptune is in the 10th House and Libra. My Neptune is sextile Pluto and I understand that is a generational interest in the spiritual life. I am a post WW2 baby boomer, growing up in the 60's and 70's and therefore part of the social/spiritual movememts of those times.

This mix of placements has influenced a lifelong search for meaning and knowledge in some shape or other. I feel that in recent times that search has taken on a more focused and effective dimension. Certainly my interest in Tarot and astrology are part of this .

Some 12th House characteristics, I grew up as a gay woman in a very Catholic family with deeply held views that were quite different from the family view. I have strong memories of that feeling of 'outsiderhood' that is supposedly characteristic of some 12th Housers. I must say that this particular life choice has led me to many happy places and. years later, a respected place in the family. Everyone can change!


I 've worked in human services for the last 18 years, primarily in mental health and addiction and I'm naturally drawn to people on the fringes. More 12th House stuff, for sure. For many years I was almost driven to work with such people, feeling a very strong sense of obligation and affection for many of them.

I tend to be quite introspective but love good conversation with close friends. I love beautiful things and great music, and am a fairly good amateur photographer. The latter interests are Neptunian influences I think, but also materialize the spiritual search.

I am interested in the connections between Pisces as 12th House ruler (containing my Sun) and my Moon in Pisces/3rd , and would welcome other comments. My head is too addled tonight to make good sense of what I read! One book (A spiritual approach to astrology by Myrna Loftus) describes the Sun as our Soul or ego planet and the moon as the thing which represents the sum total of all our souls or lifetimes. Not sure whether that makes it any clearer!

Have a major headache so won't say much more. Clearly I have a long way to go in terms of understanding all these concepts. Just when I think I know, some other layer of "truth" emerges.

I feel really privileged to have discovered this wonderful place and to have travelled some of the way with you wonderful people! Lots of learning and lots of laughs Thanks

Moongold

Damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When Moongold asked me to merge her unintended new thread I pressed all the right buttons but the threads merged the wrong way

I'll see what I can do to correct things

Apologies to Isthmus for getting the merge with Moongold's thread wrong.

This is hopefully a correct version of Isthmus' original thread

Minderwiz> Gave a quick skim and everything seems to be in order, so no worries ^_^ I'm afraid I'm having ISP probs (in the public library right now.... T_T) so you won't be hearing from me again until Sunday! My sincere apologies!

Celestial Aspects?

Hi Minderwiz and Isthmus<

I didn't even notice what had happened!

I think you'd call this a Grand Trine not a T Square?

I hope I got that right. Sometimes the aspects get a bit confused, a bit like being on a traffic roundabout.....


Blessings

Moongold