RWS: Colour coding ?

[samantha]

Just a thought. Is there any reason why the background colour of the cards are presented the way that they are ? For the most
part realistic colours are used (blue/sky) , so why the inclusion of yellow ??! Did the artist just get bored , or is there another reason ? As they come from across the board I can't see any
obvious pattern , tho ' there are fewer of them.

[Kirali]

I'm not really sure but I believe that the publisher or printer Rider colored the cards that way and not Pixie Smith. Someone else help me out! hehe

[Richard]

My understanding is that all the colors are important, if you're into the Kabbalistic and astrological meaning behind the cards. (I am, which is why I don't have, say, the Universal Waite, even though I think it's much prettier over all).
The only example I can think of offhand, however, is the yellow sky behind the Fool and the Magician, which represents the element of air (Crowley's Fool also has a yellow background).
Ultimately, I think its a personal choice. If you're into the esoteric symbolism, the color is important. If you couldn't give a Sephirah about it, it's not.

[Mysti]

Synchronistic!

I asked this question myself yesterday... well not a question really.. but a comment that I really was not attracted to the yellows in the RWS deck.

The reply I got was "Have you ever seen the paintings?" I have not. The story, as I understand it, is that the paintings of the cards with the yellow skies were sunsets, painted in varying tints of yellows and pinks, etc. The presses, at that time, could not accomodate the various colorations, and the publishers chose the yellow skies.

That response makes a good bit of sense to me.

Love and peace,
Mysti

[rota]

I think a person could make a good argument for saying that the various colors in a deck (including the RWS) could and should have meaning in and of themselves.

The color yellow is associated with intelligence and insight, or so say the writers of works on the human aura. Various shades of yellow can mean different types of intellligence: a muddy brown can mean selfish cunning, for instance, whereas a clear, pure tulip yellow means transcendent spiritual understanding.

Green, the central color of the spectrum as we know it, is associated with adaptability, poise, judgement. This would make it a good main color for a Justice card, and indeed in the RWS our androgynous Justice figure wears a green mantle over a red cloak.

Red is associated with passion. In its clearest purest roselike state it's supposed to denote impersonal capital-L love; in a darkened state, it could represent a sort of jealous rage.

And on and on. It's a worthwhile study, and I'll bet that the Waite/Smith conception of the RWS deck included proper color correspondences.

[Mysti]

Originally posted by rota
[B]I think a person could make a good argument for saying that the various colors in a deck (including the RWS) could and should have meaning in and of themselves.

I agree! That was also part of the response to me in a way. The person posting to me reminded me that the bright yellow used in the backgrounds also had significant meanings in the OGD rituals at that time.

I would love to see the original paintings, or at least a reasonable facsimile. It would be quite expansive I think.

Love and peace,

Mysti

[Rusty Neon]

Originally posted by Mysti

I would love to see the original paintings, or at least a reasonable facsimile. It would be quite expansive I think.

Actually, there were no original paintings for the RWS deck (unlike the Thoth deck, where there were original paintings) -- just black and white sketches. See Waite's _Pictorial Key to the Tarot_ for the B+W sketches.

[HappyHardy]

Originally posted by Rusty Neon
Actually, there were no original paintings for the RWS deck (unlike the Thoth deck, where there were original paintings) -- just black and white sketches. See Waite's _Pictorial Key to the Tarot_ for the B+W sketches.

Can you give the source for your information? According to Kaplan's The Encyclopedia of Tarot Volume III, Page 1, "...The cards were drawn in 1909 by Pamela Colman Smith, who was a member of the Order of the Golden Dawn. Smith painted the deck under the direction of Arthur Edward Waite, also a member of the order..."

On page 35, “…the colours of blue, yellow, orange-red, grey and green predominate.”

Tom Tadfor Little has this to say:

"... is the artwork of Pamela Coleman Smith, who drew and colored the cards. Her figures often appear frozen in time, caught in the moment of motion...”

http://www.telp.com/tarot/waite.htm

I have been privileged to overhear at least two conversations by tarot authors in which they described the original paintings, the original set of cards, at length. I apologize for not having the information readily at hand as to where the originals are at this time.

It's in the cards! HH

[Rusty Neon]

Hi HappyHardy, if the tarot historians say that Smith coloured the cards, then indeed I stand corrected. However, Waite doesn't mention any card colours in his _Pictorial Key to the Tarot_.

Holly Volly's site indicates that the 1971 Rider-Waite deck is a very close reproduction of the 1910 Pamela A version of the Rider deck.

http://home.attbi.com/~vilex/USGames.html
http://home.attbi.com/~vilex/SunComparison/main-Sun.html
http://home.attbi.com/~vilex/index.html

[HappyHardy]

Originally posted by Rusty Neon
[B]Hi HappyHardy, if the tarot historians say that Smith coloured the cards, then indeed I stand corrected. However, Waite doesn't mention any card colours in his _Pictorial Key to the Tarot_.

In the INTRODUCTION of the _PKT_ Waite says, "...have dealt with the symbolism according to some of its higher aspects, and this also serves to introduce the complete and rectified Tarot, which is available separately, in the form of coloured cards, the designs of which are added to the present text in black and white. They have been prepared under my supervision-in respect of the attributions and meanings-by a lady who has high claims as an artist...I have given prominence to one method of working that has not been published previously; having the merit of simplicity, while it is also of universal application, it may be held to replace the cumbrous and involved systems of the larger hand-books."

Unless I have totally misread Waite (a not uncommon occurrence), the "attributions and meanings" he refers contain the colours (among other correspondences) as prescribed by the OGD.

It's in the cards! HH

[Rusty Neon]

I'm curious as to what extent, if any, the publisher (Rider) dictated the colours used. What have the tarot historians concluded in that regard?

[Rusty Neon]

http://www.tarotpassages.com/wtcrevelers2.htm

"The Original 1910 RWS deck Stuart Kaplan Bought on Ebay for a Piddling Sum of $8,000+"

Scroll down to 4th photo.

This particular Rider deck has colours that look like those of the so-called _Original Waite_ deck available at your local bookstore. Other 1910 Riders have colours that look like those of the U.S. Games 1971 Rider-Waite.

[Cerulean]

I was happy to see Rusty Neon's reply and the picture of the original 1910 set. In a March 2002 presentation about the Rider Waite, I heard Mary Greer ask Holly Volley if there was a reprint by U.S. Games based upon the $8,000 set, was it a better printing in colors or lines? The answer from Holly Volley was no, not in her opinion. Mary Greer suggested the yellow box set by U.S. Games was as close as one could get now.
My only warning to collectors fussy about original print colors not to buy the blue boxed set that is titled "Original Rider Waite" by U.S. Games---it's a reprint that has aged run colors such as mustard and greeny tones where clearer colors should be. In a sense, to me, it's like the contrast between the clearer printing in the past two years and the old greeny Thoth printing.
For awhile I was enamored about the Giant Rider Waite because I got a better sence of printing and lines in the paintings.
Recently for $10 plus shipping, I bought off of E-Bay a 1971 Rider Waite (No addition of a later date in the booklet, which does appear, for instance, in the Giant Rider Waite. On the cards, however in both copies, the copyright by U.S. Games seems to be 1971). This looks like the current U.S. Games version bought in the yellow box, but there might be some line variations that Holly Volley's site or discerning eyes have noted differences (such as Love added to Pixie Smith's signature, etc.).
Hope my two cents adds a bit of clarification.
Mari Hoshizaki

[Rusty Neon]

(1) Actually, mari, the colours of the _Original Waite_ in the purple box look a lot like the colours of the 1910 deck that Kaplan acquired on ebay. In both those decks, the blues look greenish.

(2) Does anyone who has both the 1971 Rider (standard size, in the yellow box) and the current US Games Rider (standard size, in the yellow box) notice anything different between the cards in terms of colour values and identifying marks? I have only the 1971 version. I have been thinking that the only difference is that the titles in the 1971 Rider are hand-lettered while those in the current Rider are replaced by type font titles.

(3) Does anyone who has both the 1971 Rider (standard size, in the yellow box) and the US Games Giant Rider notice anything different between the cards in terms of colour values and identifying marks?

Thanks in advance!

[joszefja]

Aren't y'all proud of me, I searched to see if my question was already brought up. :)

This thread is quite interesting, but it doesn't entirely answer my question (not surprisingly, since I wasn't even here when it was going on...)-- is there an "official" symbolism associated with the background colors in the RWS deck? For that matter, *is* there "official" symbolism for this deck? Like a book by Waite or something of that nature?

Thanks as ever,
Josie

[Rusty Neon]

Originally posted by joszefja
For that matter, *is* there "official" symbolism for this deck? Like a book by Waite or something of that nature?


The closest thing we have is Waite's book describing the cards: _A Pictorial Key to the Tarot_. However, he leaves many details unexplained, because he was formerly a Golden Dawn member and didn't want to break oaths of secrecy.

[paradoxx]

I only have an electronic version of the original Rider Waite with a cd set called "Tarot Magic" (I really need to reinstall that too). As for actual decks i have the universal waite, i do like it since the details of the cards are enhanced by the shadings. I would like to see the combindation of this style of detail shading and the oringal colors.

Originally posted by Richard
My understanding is that all the colors are important, if you're into the Kabbalistic and astrological meaning behind the cards. (I am, which is why I don't have, say, the Universal Waite, even though I think it's much prettier over all).


I appreciate your loyalty to the orignal artwork but i do recommend www.facade.com and trying out an electonic reading with the Aquatic Tarot, trust me, you'll be impressed.

ypu can view the entire deck @ http://www.atarot.de/AquaticTarot/ despite the minor problems with the details of the deck (it is water color after all and that is hard) i picked up on some interesting vibrations. A great deal of effort has been put into this deck and is worth looking at. (some of the details are wrong though, the king of cups for example is looking the oppisite way than the actual rider decks)

[TemperanceAngel]

What intrigued me a lot about RWS card colors is this:

My first deck I bought in Australia, many cards are blue (oh and what a blue!)

I moved to Scotland for a few years and found that not only are the backs of the cards' different, flowers as opposed to stripey, BUT the blue cards are GREEN.

How very bizarre that they are different between countries??

It gave me a new insight into the deck, but I gotta tell you that I much prefer the blue!!

Anyone have any thoughts??

XTAX

[Phoenyx]

Oh my gosh, I just saw the Aquatic for the first time....oh my gosh, it's GORGEOUS! I think I just found my fourth deck to get. ;)