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214red
11-10-2009, 03:23
Hi
I see there used to be an astrology study group, is this still going on?
If not does anyone else fancy joining me in resurrecting it?

Or does anyone want to be my astro buddy to help each other learn. i have monthly classes but thats not enough to quench my astrology thirst.

Nik

Minderwiz
11-10-2009, 19:36
I was interested to see if you got much response from your post - maybe it's a little too early to judge but the impression I get is more one of interest in particular issues than a wish to study and develop, which for a primarily Tarot oriented forum is not surprising.

The problem with getting a study group going is picking the right level, beginners or intermediate (or both) so as to maintain interest. There's also the issue of which approach do we use. I know Dave has tried in the past, he uses a traditional (in the modern sense) psychological approach. I use a traditional (in the classical sense) approach - the two are not the same and whilst both are valid, it can be confusing for a beginner to be given two widely different views of, say, the role of Pluto in your birth chart. Learning with one teacher and one viewis probably a good idea to begin with. If it's made clear that other views exist then these can be explored later on.

There's also an issue of committment - both for the students and for the teacher(s) and in an environment where no fees are paid, it's a big ask on both parts.

My guess is that both Dave and I would be interested but it really depends on how many are willing to 'sign up' and put in that committment.

Manda
11-10-2009, 23:08
I am pretty new to astrology, but it is fascinating to me. I am plowing through my own books and what have you, and I would be interested in a group, but I would not be much use in anything above rote beginner.

dadsnook2000
12-10-2009, 01:34
The "essence" of a study group is not the skill level of the individual, it is not the diversity of interests and/or skill levels of its members.

It is the individual commitment to participate in every chart, every topical area of learning, every study assignment, in every response or feedback on a chart that has been presented. If you aren't 100% involved in the whole process, than you both cheat yourself and defeat the purpose and success of the group.

In the past, some members have raised questions and then either not given any feedback or offered just a perfunctory answer that did not enlighten the astrologer who offered information or the other list members. This is an example of not doing yourself or others any good. We know this is primarily a tarot-focused group. While Tarot can be learned and practiced fairly quickly at a functional level (not that deeper study and more experience doesn't make one a much better tarot reader), astrology requires a bit of preparatory work.

Some of the basics to acquire before you can start to understand a natal chart include, but are not limited to:
** Planet meanings.
** Aspects between planets and their meanings.
** The basics of chart calculation (even if you use a computer service or have your own software) such as understanding global measuring systems, longitude and latitude effects on chart orientation, time-time zones-daylight adjustments to "time", Sun's mean-average-actual daily motion, etc.
** House calculation and house meanings.
** Signs within the zodiac and their meanings.
** Synthesis of all of the above.
** Calculating 10, 20, 100 charts.

So, this might be what a basic introduction would include in terms of topical areas. As part of these learning steps, you should expect that example charts will be presented to illustrate each subject area, that an open discussion about those charts will ensue, that the views of one person may conflict with those of another (this is OK) but that the group as a whole and its primary members will keep the overall direction focused.

At the completion of the above basics, I would expect that a deeper view of the natal chart would be undertaken in terms of very classical stages and views over the past few hundred years, plus the newer directions that have emerged in the past century. Rulerships, Arabian Parts, Symbolic Symbols, Uranian astrology, mid-points, etc. will need to be introduced and perhaps incorporated in the basic skill sets.

Later, various techniques for progressing, directing and returning charts to meet cyclic conditions could all be explored for the purpose of prediction and greater study. One would also want to know about the many astrological associations, the on-line resources for finding chart data and reviewing the work and comments of others, the reading media that can be subscribed to, etc. I'm not trying to discourage anyone but to show that there is a reason to require a commitment to participate. You can't "follow along" and then expect to understand what others have learned-by-doing --- it doesn't work.

It is possible to deeply learn all of the above, and more, within a two year period---but that is a bit intense. Taking a year or so just to learn the basics that were first noted would be a good goal to achieve, and might take a bit longer on the Internet. Dave

Minderwiz
12-10-2009, 02:36
I agree with you that the first set of points - relating to setting up and interpreting the basic chart is about as far as we could go in a period of around a year. It can be done faster but as you say, that requires some quite intense study.

Given a 12 month time scale and the list of topics, I think that works out at around one a month, allowing for one or two additional areas.

However committment remainst the main issue plus responding to questions. Astrology is definitely one of those things where learning by doing is THE way of gaining the skill. It's rather like cooking, recipe books help provide the basic knowledge and structure but you can't call yourself a cook simply because you've read Escoffier. Better to read Delia or Jamie Oliver and try half the recipes, several times till they come out tasting ok. Thereafter you can begin to vary the recipe to suit yourself.

AJ
12-10-2009, 02:36
Dave and Minderwiz,

Dave, thank you for that 'basics' list, very helpful.
I am gearing up to turn my focus to astrology in the new year. To that purpose and thinking about the 2 yearish time line I googled astrology course and got this

http://www.google.com/search?q=astrology+course&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

Thinking about all the controversy that arises when someone brings up 'official' and 'accredited' tarot courses, can either one of you spot any red flags or gems there?

Thank you.

I'm not glossing over your thoughts 214red, but in my own experience free form group study ends up with 100 people lurking and never inputing and 3 or 4 people trying to carry the load. Just look at any deck study list here.

dadsnook2000
12-10-2009, 04:57
I've looked through the first page of the adds that your noted:

** Astrologycourse.com provides 7 lessons AND a gadget (which you have to buy). Can seven lessons cover all that I noted in my prior post? No. Do you need a gadget that looks like nothing you have ever seen before, do you need to buy it? No.

** Anita Briant provides 30 lessons that cover an amazing span of astrology. Is any one lesson likely to be "in depth" enough to really learn from? Will you be able to put all 30 lessons together and be an astrologer when you are done? I think this is better than some advertised services but not really suitable for what a beginner really needs.

* The Rosicrucian site and studies. This whole mystery school concept and span of teachings is just too far reaching for most astrological inquirers. Not enough focus for what this group might need.

** Astrology courses lists various schools. Most of these are far too expensive, often involve attendance to some degree and are quite deep for a casual inquiring mind. Many would be suitable for Minderwiz and I if we were so inclined to study what we already somewhat know.

** Moses Siregar doesn't strike me as a mainstream teacher of basic astrology.

** Renaissance astrology (the site) is interesting but not what I would suggest to a modern would-be student who wants to start of with basics. This is something to deepen and broaden your studies later.

Most of these sites are out of the mainstream in terms of costs, travel, scope of coverage, inclusion of a great deal of subject matter you don't want to investigate now. Dave

Minderwiz
12-10-2009, 05:01
Thanks AJ, you put into words what Dave and I are cautious about.

There's no globally or even nationally recognised bodies for accrediting Astrology courses. You could try one of the 'recognised' (in the field) bodies such as Faculy of Astrological Studies (FAS) or Mayo School, or QHP in the UK. Alternatively several well known and well established Astrologers provide their own courses. They even have courses at different levels to accomodate beginners as well as budding professionals. BUT they are not cheap. Like most things in life you get what you pay for.

Free courses tend to give no or little feedback and usually assess through computer marking rather than personal supervision. However, they do provide a basis for assessing whether you actually really want to get involved. Thereafter you can move on to one of the 'better' courses.

sirenssong
12-10-2009, 19:44
I would love to join a study group. I am very new to astrology and only know some of the basicis.

214red
12-10-2009, 22:32
thank you for all the responses, i will answer in depth later tonight or tomorrow when as i have to run to class shortly

I was hoping the study group would be something that could support my monthly workshops. i am happy to put in the time, and even if its just a topic a month that we all discuss it would be a start.

there are alot of questions to consider, i do think the basics of the planets etc can be read in a book, however putting it all together tends to be the issue i have. so it might be better as some have suggested to start a monthly topic, and then for us all to chip in to how it relates to us, perhaps a planet a month?

AJ
15-10-2009, 07:58
Thank you Dave and Minderwiz, for your input re: schools.

Back to the drawing board...

olivia1
16-10-2009, 02:17
there are alot of questions to consider, i do think the basics of the planets etc can be read in a book, however putting it all together tends to be the issue i have. so it might be better as some have suggested to start a monthly topic, and then for us all to chip in to how it relates to us, perhaps a planet a month?

agreed. If you want to do that, let me know. I just got my book Understanding The Birth Chart by Kevin Burk. It is absolutely fascinating. I just know I'm going to be studying Astrology (through books and online forums) for years to come. It would be great to share ideas with others.

214red
16-10-2009, 02:58
well looks like people are interested, even if its only a handful.

I am happy to start the topics for discussion monthly, if the more experienced of us like mindwiz, and Dave etc would be happy to chip in to our discussions?

so now we need to agree on what level we aim at, shall we start at planets in houses? perhaps the first topic would be the sun through the houses?

Let me know what you think

Minderwiz
17-10-2009, 03:14
Given that you'r doing your own monthly studies and are willing to lead the discussion, can I suggest you do it to fit in with your own 'challenges' - without trying to get us to do your homework LOL.

That way you're going to get something back, for your efforts. If Sun through the houses fits in with that, or you find that a particularly interesting topic go ahead.

Remember though, it presumes some knowledge of the construction of a chart and also of possible house systems, so be prepared to deal with those topics

franniee
17-10-2009, 03:19
I'm in. I've been lurking. :D I have a moderate understanding but I am sure there are big holes!! :) So start where you want to 214red and we'll adjust?

faerieluca
17-10-2009, 04:35
I'm in as well. Put me in the absolute beginner category though.

olivia1
17-10-2009, 09:01
I'm in as well. Put me in the absolute beginner category though.

ditto. something to advanced will just lose me...

saleeneh
18-10-2009, 12:19
Hi I am in.. I am an absolute beginner but willing to put work in! Just need to be given the directions.

thanks

214red
19-10-2009, 17:35
cool, we will find a common ground, i will when i get my laptop fixed , the HDD is broken and typing on my iphone is difficult

DevilishAngel
20-10-2009, 08:52
I'd love to do this. Astrology fascinates be am I am still a beginner, just the basics.

Ashtaroot
20-10-2009, 14:46
I would like to be in too, I have basic+ knowledge and got all my books and was planning to dive in by the new year, but would love to pop in when I can if allowed :D

Minderwiz
21-10-2009, 02:02
Whilst we are waiting for 214red to have the hard drive repaired/replaced, There's perhaps some preparatory information that might help people.

The most important, is to make sure that you have a fairly good idea of the difference between signs and houses. Both are ways of measuring a planet's placement. The 12 signs of the zodiac are global. By that I mean that wherever you are on Earth, a planet is in the same sign, For example, the Sun is now in Libra, whether your in California, New South Wales, or Singapore. The zodiac is a reference frame for charting the position of a planet in space with respect to the Earth.

Houses are much more local. They measure the postion of the planets in respect of one locality on Earth - one specific place. These days, this is usually the place where a particular person was born, but might just as easily be the place where an event took place or a horary question was asked.

Although signs are the best known Astrological measure, strangely enough they are the more difficult of the two to actually 'see'. Go outside and look at the sky and, without an ephemeris, I defy anyone to point to 'Scorpio' (remember Western Astrology measures signs from the March equinox, not the constellations).

However you can go outside and get a fair idea of the houses, as long as you know which way is due south (in the Northern hemisphere) or due North (in the Southern hemisphere). If you face in the opposite direction to your hemisphere (i.e. due South in the Northern hemisphere) and stand there on a clear night, you will see the stars and (some planets) appear to rise in an Easterly direction, gradually rise in the sky till they reach their highest point directly in front of you, and then begin to get lower as they move towards the West, finally setting over in the West. Where the stars, Moon and planets rise, is the Ascendant, the cusp of the first house. they move upwards through the 12th, 11th and 10th houses reaching their highest point (due South) at the Midheaven. They then move through the 9th, 8th and 7th houses to finally set at the Descendant.

Now you can't see the other six houses, as they lie on the opposite side of the Earth but you can imagine them,the sixth being opposite the 12th, the 5th opposite the 11th and so on till you get to the 2nd opposite the 8th and the first opposite the seventh.

In short the houses are divisions of the sky you actually see if you look up.

Because they are related to you and where you are, the houses are seen as representing divisions or areas of life, the most important being wherethe stars and planets rise - the Ascendant, where they culminate, (the midheave) where they set (Descendant) - All of which you can see and finally the point where they anticulminate, the IC.

If there are any questions, on this or any other preliminary issues, please ask

Ashtaroot
21-10-2009, 19:23
thank you that was a good revision.. so far i am cool :)

Minderwiz
21-10-2009, 19:58
I'm working on the assumption that 214red is going to start looking at the Sun through the houses. I won't pre-empt that by looking at anything to do with the Astrological dimension but it's interesting to note the cultural and astronomical dimension. When this topic was suggested, I was a little wary - thinking it was a little advanced. However the more I think about it, the more I realise it's an excellent place to start, for two reasons. Firstly, our whole culture, wherever we are, depends on this topic - more on that below. Secondly it's a useful introduction to a thread I am going to start, on Primary Directions.

Let's go outside again. It's pre-dawn and the September equinox has just occured. Again face in the appropriate direction (North if you're in the Southern hemisphere, South if you're in the North). Approximately one hour before dawn, you will see the first rays of the Sun, due East of your position. At this point the Sun is about mid way through the first house. As the Sun touches the eastern horizon the first degree of Libra is rising. It is dawn, and this culturally and historically marks the beginning of the day. The Sun will continue to rise, till at noon, local time it has reached the Midheaven. Indeed noon is defined as the mid point in the Sun's travel from sunrise to sunset. If you had been born at sunrise, the Sun would lie on your Ascendant, if you were born at noon the Sun would be on your MC. The sun continues it's progress till it sets due West. Sunset marks the end of the day and the beginning of night. Between sunset and midnight the Sun moves through the sixth, fifth and fourth houses till it reaches the IC at midnight. It then begins to move through the third, second and first houses to complete the day, another day begins at sunrise.

At the equinox, the period of daylight equals the period of night. But that is only the case on two days of the year. If you were not born at the equinox, day and night will be of unequal length. If you were born in Spring or Summer, the period of daylight is longer than the period of night. In Autumn and Winter the situation is reversed. However that is not obvious in an Astrological chart. The chart shows two equal hemispheres - the top one representing daytime (diurnal) and the bottom one representing night time (nocturnal). The reason for this is that historically daytime was divided into twelve equal hours, and night time was also divided into twelve equal hours. However, apart from the equinoxes, a daytime hour could be longer or shorter than a nocturnal hour. Only in the comparatively recent past has this ceased to be our normal way of looking at the 24 hours in a day.

It's currently mid October and if you look at sunrise, you will see that it actually occurs a little South of East. It will continue to rise a little further South each day till it reaches it's maximum Southern position at the December Solstice. In the Northern hemisphere this is 'mid winter' in the Southern 'mid summer'. Thereafter, the Sun will rise slightly further North each day, though still South of East, till it reaches due East at the March equinox. Then sunrise will continue to move further North each day (now North of East) till it reaches it's maximum Northern position at the June Solstice. From then till the September equinox, it will begin to move further South each day till it reaches due East again.

On any one day the Ascendant will also follow this pattern. When 0 degrees Libra rises it will lie due East, from then till 0 degrees Capricorn rises it will move further South, then it will move back to due East when 0 degrees Aries rises, and from then on it will lie slightly to the North East, and then further North each day, reaching it's maximum Northerly postion when 0 degrees Cancer rises.

This change in the Ascendant's position relative to the observer mirrors the changing seasons of the year and through them the rich cultural legacy of myth. The houses also have another cultural (and indeed Astrological) significance. The pattern above can be seen as representing the cycle of life. The diurnal portion (12th to 7th) charts out the period from birth, through our period of maximum vitality (MC) to death at the Descendant. We can also see the period of night from Sunset to Sunrise, as a voyage into a nether world, leading to rebirth at Sunrise.

The houses therefore have a rich cultural and mystical association they chart out our lives and indeed the natal chart is a chart of the zodiac against the houses for our locality at the time of birth. It's a snapshot of where planets were at the moment of our birth in terms of their position in the skies at the birth location. It also contains information about how our own journey through life will manifest.

Well I'm not going to add any more, unless there are any questions. Hopefully you should now have an understanding of how your natal chart relates to the planets when you were born.

merissa_88
21-10-2009, 22:46
I'd like to participate in this class. I have intermediate knowledge but there are alot of things I would like to study again. Thank you!

214red
21-10-2009, 23:37
Thanks for starting it minderwiz, currently fingers crossed my laptop would be back at the weekend (omg i miss it soo much).
I will start trying to collate information for next week to start the topic on the houses, i am using my howard soportas book for reference.

Minderwiz
22-10-2009, 00:50
Fingers crossed LOL

The Howard Sasportas book is a first rate book!!

214red
22-10-2009, 00:56
yeah its helpful, i was thinking that maybe the first lesson about the houses are not only what they represent, but also the 'me, me and you, me and society' (cant remember the exact phrasing as i dont have the book at work), also the different type of houses (cadent etc)?

Kibeth
22-10-2009, 01:12
And if you don't know which is your 12th house yet, give this site a try...

http://www.chartplanet.com/html/chart_data.html

214red
23-10-2009, 22:06
I created a new post to start the study group properly
its here:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?p=2027895&posted=1#post2027895

Hey
Having a look over my astrology books and notes from class lastnight I worked out a rough order for the study groups. I think as I have previously said certain information we can find from books, most of us know the basics or have a book to cover such things. The difficulty comes when we try and piece things together, we know what our sunsign means to us, but how does it mean when linked to moon sign? What happens when our sun is in the first house, how does that manifest?

I personally think itís easier to learn the complicated things about the houses a bit later after the signs, maybe thatís just the way I was taught. I am open to suggestions though as I am no expert. I have listed the topics I can think of in the order I think we should tackle them below. I think it would be nice to have a topic every two weeks, I did think a month but I think that might be a bit too long, and a week too short.

I think we should start off with signs through the houses, some signs can also be grouped as they best discussed together.
Signs through the houses
w/c 30th Nov- General outline of the meaning of each house
W/c 2nd Nov-Sun & Moon
w/c 16th Nov-Mercury
w/c 30th Nov-Venus & Mars
w/c 14th Dec -Jupiter& Saturn
w/c 28th Dec- Uranus
w/c 11th Jan 2010 ĖNeptune & Pluto
w/c 25th Jan -Moons Nodes (north and south)
w/c 8th Feb-Chiron, Lilith, Juno, Vertex etc

After this I think we should take a deeper look into the houses, and take at least a month to look at this in more depth, will put dates up next year.

Indepth Look at houses
Angles-Angular/Cadent/Succedent
1-6 Me
7- 9 Me & you
10-12 Me, you, & Society
Self-Development, Self-expression, Self-expension, Self-transcendence

Aspects
TBA

I think we need to approach this study group from a personal point of view, look at our charts and friends charts. We also need to stick to the subject, it will get confusing if we start looking at aspects whilst we are reviewing the houses and planets.

How does that sound to everyone?what have I missed?

it might be good also if we all try and have the same type of resources, so perhaps pick a book that we all get to work from (not that we wont use other books and resources)

I am currently using The Twelve Houses by Howard Sasportas amongst others, this is my main book i am using for the houses.

Commitment!!
i think we should all be allowed to dip in when we can, life doesnt follow straight paths, so although we want to commit it might not always be the case, as long as we make an effort thats enough

special events are something we might also want to cover, for instance the Dec 31st eclipse etc

Jan 2010- i am also up for doing an astrology tarot spread for the year in january if anyone else fancies it

saleeneh
24-10-2009, 04:19
Hi

I am a real newbie. Do you have any books to suggest? Also, are we all going to work out of one book together for the course (is there such a book?). That would be very helpful to me as I would have the book to refer back to, and the group for questions. thanks for doing this!

214red
24-10-2009, 04:44
Hi

I am a real newbie. Do you have any books to suggest? Also, are we all going to work out of one book together for the course (is there such a book?). That would be very helpful to me as I would have the book to refer back to, and the group for questions. thanks for doing this!

Hi Saleeneh

I started a brand new thread here:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthrea...d=1#post2027895

this will stop the confusion as this thread is long.
I recomended a book on the other thread