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Rusty Neon
01-04-2003, 16:33
My primary interest in astrology is applying its language to tarot. So far, that has been limited to the context of individual card meanings. Horary Astrology now intrigues me. I'd be interested in knowing how any of you have applied principles of Horary Astrology to tarot readings without the use of the ephemeris or natal charts or time-of-question charts.

Thanks in advance.

Rusty Neon

Astraea
02-04-2003, 00:20
The answers to that question could make a whole book, I'm sure. Tarot and horary astrology have a great deal in common, and many of the same general principles apply to each (the operative word being "general"). For example, it is an historical maxim of the horary art that one ought not ask the same question twice -- meaning that some time must elapse between episodes of asking the question, and/or conditions regarding the question must have changed before it can be profitably asked again; much the same line of thinking can be applied to tarot readings.

In horary astrology, one of the "strictures against judgement" is that the chart must describe the question, at which point it is said to be "radical [related to the root] and fit to be judged" (I love the language of horary, which dates back to ancient Greek and Arabic times/climes). By the same token, a tarot reading will often describe a particular situation with stunning precision, to such an extent that it can even be read literally.

I am continually struck by the parallels between card reading and horary astrology, and find that the study of one invariably expands the understanding of the other.

Minderwiz
02-04-2003, 05:23
I've done some Horary readings and also, of course Tarot readings. As was said above they clearly have some things in common. Horary in principle can give a lot more detailed information than Tarot, as it not only describes the situation but it also describes the querent, the quesited and any other interested parties.

The strictures for judgement are more restrictive than tarot - I have had to resort to the cards because the chart is not radical - usually because of the degrees rising stricture. I should really test the accuracy of tarot readings in these circumstances (to see if all forms of divination are affected) but I must admit that I haven't tried this.

Horary by its nature tends to focus on questions that the querent wants answering and these are specific rather than general - such as where did I leave my watch? Horary doesn't really lend itself to a general reading and for that you have to look at return charts or transits and progressions.

Both tarot and horary are fascinating areas and well worth the effort devoted to them.

isthmus nekoi
02-04-2003, 10:56
Hm, I find that certain tarot spreads can take also describe querents and other parties involved, esp relationship spreads, or the c/c.

Although I don't know much about horary, I do get the impression that tarot is more open ended, while astrology more specific/structured.... although I've had some successful specific throws (ie. where is my lost item?), I imagine horary is more suited to the task.

Astraea
02-04-2003, 13:54
Hi, isthmus nekoi. This is such an interesting subject -- and very subjective, as well!

In my experience, tarot spreads can yield quite specific descriptions and directions, depending upon the positions assigned to the cards and the degree of communication that exists between the reader, the querent and the deck: a "divine symmetry," and synergy.

I also find that -- while it is "compassed about" with rules -- horary astrology can provide a wealth of general and background information relative to any question or issue. I suspect that the many horary regulations were originally devised as protective measures, to insulate and focus the student/practitioner's psyche as he or she grew in knowledge and experience. Strictures against judgement almost invariably hold true, but -- seemingly paradoxically -- the reasons for their presence can be found in the selfsame chart. That is the nature of the hologram, which a horary chart -- most superlatively -- is.

Rusty Neon
02-04-2003, 14:35
As mentioned, I'm quite new to astrology and to horary astrology. What interests me most about Horary Astrology in the context of Tarot is the idea of making a Horary Chart without an ephemeris but with tarot cards and then using Horary analysis such as analysing the presence of benefic/malefic planets in houses that relate to the question and analysis of aspects between significator planets and the planets that rule the question. For instance, the cards could have Golden Dawn planetary and zodiac meanings. In terms of aspects, we wouldn't have precise degrees as in horary astrology but some degree of precision could be approximated by putting the planet cards into "decanates" of houses.

Has anyone tried this?

The Golden Dawn didn't really develop horary methods of tarot reading but Paul Hughes-Barlow has tried to extrapolate something. See

http://www.supertarot.co.uk/astro/12adv.htm

http://www.supertarot.co.uk/astro/horary.htm

http://www.supertarot.co.uk/astro/03astrology.htm

It would be fun to try some astro-tarot pretend readings in this forum.

Astraea
02-04-2003, 14:50
Rusty Neon, that sounds like a very fruitful line of inquiry! It would be fascinating to pursue, and at the very least, promises to provide nourishing food for thought! I can't think of a better place to experiment with these ideas than in this open-minded forum.

Thank you for providing the Supertarot links -- I plan to follow them when I can give their contents the time they deserve. :)

Minderwiz
03-04-2003, 01:02
I certainly see possibilities for trying to adapt readings based on the Astrological spread, However - in a horary reading not all houses are used - only the first (the querent), the seventh (the Astrologer) and the House representing the question, (for example the fifth House if the question were about children or romance) - most of the other houses would not be used unless there are other parties involved or you are trying to answer to separate questions from the same horary chart (which is possible).

Aspects are crucial to the outcome of a horary reading - no aspect then the matter is to all intents and purposes void. I'm not sure I see how to get round this - it would be interesting to see some speculations on the possibilities.

Also whilst I can see how cards in 'houses' may work well, attributing planetary attributes begins to walk towards unknown territory. Certainly since the Golden Dawn there have been real attempts to match cards to either planets, signs or indeed combinations of both - for example the Thoth deck associates the Seven of Cups with Venus in Scorpio. However these associations are not universally agreed.

That being said, with Tarot I think there is much less of a set of rules than Astrology and if some card/planet associations work for you then it is well worth trying them out.

I think I would keep to horary Astrology on the one hand or to a self designed spread which is based on themes on the other. Try not to establish a rigid set of associations but do a Hollywood thing - 'based on an idea by.....' and then improvise

That way things may well work profitably.