Osho Zen Tarot Deck

[Kundalika]

Hi

Does anyone use Osho Zen regularly? I want to buy this deck, it is really beautiful, but I read somewhere that its not recommended for beginners (like me). Any ideas, tips or suggestions?

Thanx.

[Diana]

Kundalika: The Osho Zen is an incredibly beautiful deck. However, contrary to many people, I don't consider it to be a true Tarot deck, although it has the usual 78 cards (well, 79 really, because there's an extra card with Osho on it as the Master :laugh: ), and four elements.

It is Tarot-based, Tarot inspired, but it is so unique, and the messages it gives you can be so far removed from anything that Tarot would normally give you. It is more like having Osho himself in your pocket, than having a Tarot deck!

It is so easy to understand. The Little White Book that comes with it is so full of life and wisdom.

Osho's sense of humour, his great wisdom and his Zen-ness really talk through this deck, even though it was not actually made by him.

Buy it. You won't be disappointed.

[cjtarot]

Hi,

I agree with diana, this deck does not read (or at least for me) like a tarot. This is the deck I use for inner wisdom..the thing calls me when I need a kick in the toosh, all of a sudden I just notice it...

I love this deck, the insight, the images..I loved it so much I bout the TOA of tarot by the same artist..I don't think it matters if you are a beginner..just try to learn and use it "Not as a Tarot"..so don't try to apply tarot logic (book meanings) to this deck.

I would suggest that you do purchase it and if you don't have a basic tarot deck, try the universal waite or connolly.

Blessings and good reading

CJ

[magpie9]

Absolutely get it. It speaks directly to the soul, while being well-grounded.

Like Diana, I don't see it as really being tarot. But there are a lot of excellent tarot decks out there, and this does not have to be an either-or choice.

I can't speak to the "Osho" part of it--I know absolutely nothing about that--it seems to me to be beautifully Zen.

I have had it for years, and have made no effort to "learn" the cards, because I want to be able to come to each one "new" every time I draw it, with as few pre-conceptions or attachments as possible. It's how I feel I get the most out of them. :)

I hope you get the deck, and I hope your experience with it is as wonderful as mine.

[Mimers]

I have to agree with the rest of them. If you are drawn to this deck, you will not be dissapointed. It has so much to offer. It is however not your typical Tarot deck, and should not in my opinion be used to learn Tarot with. You can however learn more of yourself with it.

I love this deck. It is one of my favorites, but I don't use it often, because it only speaks in certain ways. Does that make sense?

Mimers

[Kundalika]

Thank you Diana, cjtarot, magpie9, Mimers.

I wil purchase this deck! Thanx again for sharing your insights.

[wavebreaker]

You may also want to read the interview with Ma Deva Padma (http://www.aeclectic.net/articles/interview_mdpadma.html), the creator of the Osho Zen deck. ;)

[Khatruman]

Another promoter of the Osho Zen.. whether "traditional" or not, it is a very clear and deep deck. It will not disappoint you.

[rostie]

just love it!!! it was my second deck i believe and i never regreted it!!! and don't worry, i was a beginner too then and i had no problems with it, so easy to understand, to feel...just GEt It :D

[Mysti]

I really love this deck. I think it was my third deck.

I agree that it is not a tarot deck, but more designed for meditation and inner awareness. The colors and the illustrations are beautiful, and each card has its own meaning.

I used to try to relate it back to the Tarot, but found that it really isn't meant to be used that way as the meanings are so profound and clear as they are.

I have done readings for myself with it, and find they are always quite on the mark, so the difference in meanings does not detract from the usefulness of this deck either. However, it does not speak to me of "them out there", but rather of myself. It's a personal growth deck to me.

Mysti

[Kundalika]

Thanx to you too: tarotlady, Khatruman, rostie, Mysti.

I was a little hesistant before I started this thread, but I have no worries now......I'm definitely buying this lovely deck:)

[truthsayer]

i love tarot-a total tarot-holic. it's hard for me to find a deck that i absolutely cannot make myself like even if it's beautiful. osho zen is this for me. i tried using it for 3 or 4 years before i finally gave up and traded it. i think the root of my dislike is b/c i remember when the mess with the osho cult in oregon was going on. the 79th card called the master is osho and he absolultely gives me the creeps. i've tried using the deck w/o osho and still can't get past the dark side i sense in this deck.

i just feel like you should know the other side of this deck as well. i do hope that if you choose to try this one out you'll love it. i don't believe in shooting decks down. decks shouldn't be penalized for who inspired them's troubles. this one has a lot to offer if you are able to accept everything that it is. i simply can't.

[Kundalika]

Hi truthsayer,

I appreciate your comments. I had a weird feeling about the Master card too....so I just decided that I would use it as a bookmark or something, not as a part of the deck.

I am not fond of cults as it is, and I'm buying this deck purely because its lovely to look at. How a deck "looks" is important to me, I can't stand some of the grotesque imagery in other decks.

I also don't really care about what happened to the Osho cult, I can be quite self-centred that way:) So for me the deck is just that, a deck. No baggage.

[Mysti]

Truthsayer, my tarot mentor would agree with you completely. She also has a distaste for the deck for the same reasons.

I do think it's important to factor that in. I think it would be very disappointing to learn of it later and wish one had not obtained the deck.

Love and peace,
Mysti

[Diana]

There was an Osho before.
And an Osho after.

What happened in-between I often ponder on.

I have watched videos and read many things that Osho wrote. Nothing will remove that magic for me.

The rest makes me so sad...........

may god bless his soul and may he manage better next time around. Sometimes one starts out on a beautiful journey, one takes the wrong fork in the road and disaster lies ahead. Some mistakes are costly. May he who has never sinned........

[paradoxx]

It is almost certain that what happened to this man was related to drug abuse and manipulation by some of his followers who later would become the masters of those whom he loved. The foot note is labled 23 and is from his book titles "Ah! This." This is the only time this book is used in the reference material. To complicate matters for me, i have not a problem with using this card although i will sometimes negate its purpose (the deck was created by the Osho Commune, that could be the origin of the negativity) with my own personal affiniation with the number 23 (psi is the 23rd letter of the greek alpabet and is used to identify psychic energies, my astrological configuration for neptue is 23 sagitarius and the neptune glyph resembles a psi). A useful interpretation for this card is "those who should be in control are being undermined by those who are trusted"

I had a dreram where i was reading with teh cards and this "Master Card" jumped out of my hand with a cackling voice declaring it to be evil. I have also lost the sharing card (queen of fire) after letting another read with it, neither of us know where it went and i still have my questions about that paticualar zen moment. read the interpretation of the master card and then decide if it is for you, due to the lack of a number it can replace the fool card. Also, 19 (innocence) also features a picture of osho. This could be the before and after mentoned.

[Aerin]

I don't feel the deck has Osho's energy it it, rather that of the deck creator's beliefs as she has interpreted the teachings and I don't see any problems in what she has written (Ma Deva Padma). I just junked the Master card as it seemed out of place, but if you read the description of the card it is 'master' in the sense of self mastery and not in the sense of master of others. There's a big difference.

None of the other cards seem to reflect the ego energy of an individual. It is a very Zen deck, if it were just called the Zen Tarot that would be totally appropriate.

Maybe I'll use the deck to read what can be learnt from the Osho situation, I think this deck would have given some very straighforward and tough messages if Osho/ other cult members had used it to read for themselves, and there is learning for everyone in the issue. It has always been a very honest deck for me.

Aerin

ps here's what the Celtic Cross spread said when I asked 'Tell me about the issues surrounding the behaviour of Osho and his followers in Oregon'. No time to type much, just that this spread seems to me to encapsulate a conflict between Zen principles and what people knew in their hearts, and the felt need for control over people and resources.... I got the Master card from its hiding place and included it in the shuffle, it didn't come up.

Also, if you lay the spread out there's something interesting in terms of who is looking where and who has their eyes closed and etc. Note I use uprights, so any 'reverse' meanings I see in the cards comes from their position in the spread and the surrounding cards.

Heart of the issue: 3 of Fire Experiencing
Crossing: Beyond Illusion XX
Below/ unconscious : Guidance 3 Rainbows
Behind/ issue from past: Exhaustion 9 Fire
Above/ conscious: Integration XIV
Before/ near future: Thunderbolt XVI

How they saw themselves: Lovers VI
Environment/ how others saw them: Creativity III
Hopes/ fears and Advice: 5 Fire Totality
Outcome: 4 Rainbows The Miser

[truthsayer]

when i first got the osho zen deck, i didn't know who osho was as i had never heard bhagwan ragneesh called by any other name. i tried it in some readings(putting the master card aside) but it didn't work for me. maybe i'm not comfortable with zen philosophy. who knows? i think it was around year or more ago that i learned who osho was from a member here. what i learned from news sites confirmed my gut reaction towards the deck in the beginning.

i don't mean to sound like i'm casting stones at osho. lord knows i have my share of sin. but i do feel a necessity to let all the truth be known about this deck and my honest feelings. i haven't shared negative details i know about osho. if i did that, i'd be throwing stones at osho. imho i am only telling the truth about my experiences with this deck.

another thoughts is the story about the "songs for the journey home" deck. this deck was created by former osho commune members who were wounded emotionally by the end of the cult. this deck is a testimony to their healing. after i received this deck and read the stories of the author and artist, that's when i made the connection. i don't think these ladies did this deck to cause any harm to the name of osho. they did it out of a need to recovery and healing. i do like this deck very much. it's a little too out there for me to read w/o the book but it's a nice gentle addition to my collection.

i haven't read the interview yet by ma padma deva. i'll try to get to it soon.

[sunflowr]

I have the Osho-Zen deck as well. I have never felt bad vibes from it at all and I do know some of what he represented. I just shut that out of my mind and focus on the deck from the artist's perspective as well as all the healing and insightful readings one can get from this deck. It really zooms in on a situation and, focusing on that and in the present time, can really change your future! I think I will take the master card out tho when I use it again (I havent used the deck in awhile). He's never appeared in any of my past readings and I am not sure I'd want his face coming up in a spread, when I use the deck again. lol! But, if left in the deck and he appears, how would you "take it"? Maybe as a spirit guide? Or, as someone said, "mastery of yourself'?

I also have "songs for the journey home" but havent used it hardly at all yet.

[Mimers]

Could someone shed some light on this 'dark' side of Osho. I am truely in the dark here. What did he do that was so terrible?

[Aerin]

Originally posted by Mimers
Could someone shed some light on this 'dark' side of Osho. I am truely in the dark here. What did he do that was so terrible?

Have look here http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/rajneesh.html

No-one is quite sure of the whole truth of the matter, there is a lot of speculation as to what actually happened.

Aerin

[paradoxx]

www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/b40.html
Not the most open minded opinion, but a part of understanding any situation that incorpearates the nature of zen must assimilate information from all sources

www.home.att.net/~meditation/Osho.html

With that in mind
www.holisticpolitics.com/rebellion.htm
www.geocities.com/brianperkins77/107osho.htm
www.osho.org

My best advise is to search the net yourself, its hard, the information is buried and hidden behind false pretenses, conditioning, politics, and comprimise. Just go with the flow, watch for television specials (Theres one on the biochemical attacks that do not identify with teh cult aspect but rather with the individuals involved and their schemes).

True Zen comes from ones self, those who are true to ones self are true to zen, but don't take my word, speak for yourself before you let someone else speak for you, with that statment i remain silent.

[Diana]

Originally posted by paradoxx
[Bwith that statment i remain silent. [/B]

In French we say "La vérité est toujours ailleurs". Truth is always elsewhere.

Following your statement, I will remain silent too.

[Silverlotus]

I have had the Osho Zen deck for a short time, and I have enjoyed my work with it. I have never really connected it with the Osho "cult", and my master card is stored away somewhere.

To me, it is a Zen deck, encompassing and presenting Zen ideas within a tarot framework. There was an earlier thread on how the Osho Zen cards compared to the RWS cards. Some cards were good fits, others were not - from the traditional prespective. But I think if you are looking for another way to look at tarot, and understand/like/want to learn more about Zen, this is a good deck - irregardless of what may have happened in the past. I've made the deck my own, and have never felt any "energy connection" with the Osho "cult".

[Rusty Neon]

Hi Silverlotus ... I'm not sure how orthodoxly 'Zen' the Osho Zen Tarot deck really is. It probably more likely reflects Osho's eclectic views to religions and spirituality (or the deck artist's take on Osho's views). I prefer to view it as a New Age deck.

[Silverlotus]

I guess you can say it is more new-agey then Zen, but there is a Zen background to it I think. Like No-thingness for instead of a Heirophant. It's more then then say pagan or Christian.

[paradoxx]

Originally posted by Silverlotus
I guess you can say it is more new-agey then Zen, but there is a Zen background to it I think. Like No-thingness for instead of a Heirophant. It's more then then say pagan or Christian.

=i believe that your last line is a typo=

The four suits are roughly based on the primal elements with the major arcania being spriit.

Fire
Water
Clouds (air)
Rainbows (This one is out of place with the rest of the elements here but does provide a useful suit)

The Temperence Card is a lot more active and predominantly altered to suit this paticular decks interpretations of the cards. Conditioning(the Devil) is a card that should be looked at more carefullly, the lion knows he's a lion (sometimes) and thus is just waiting for the time to escape, this card represents the escape from conditioning as well as the concept itself.

When working with magick and spellcasting with this deck, it does in fact relate certain meanings of the "tradiitional tarot" in a new way. The No-thingness card reminds me of a blank tv set. I like the Rebel(emperor) card although the fool needs some readjustment.

In conclusion: some of the meanings are in direct contrast to the RWS/"traditional" meanings that most of us are using when divining the tarot. This seems to be the problem, the intense departure from the 1909 set meanings does generate a singular vibration unto itself. This deck multi-tasks with ease, it answers questions upon questions and you still have half of a spread left. I've got some of the excerpts and information in my head and it comes out when it applies itself to everyday life, which this deck does frequently.

[SnorkMaiden]

My friend and I both decided to take up Tarot after having a reading done by a work colleague. My friend went straight for Osho Zen and loves it. She has no previous experience of card reading (Tarot or otherwise). I like the Osho Zen but I wanted a 'proper' Tarot deck to get me started. I've got a RW to get to grips with the basics, I've also been bitten by the Tarot bug and keep buying new decks even though I know virtually nothing! I've got Ancestral Path, Fey and Goddess and I'm awaiting my Mary-El deck.

My Osho Zen friend says the cards talk to her and feels that they are the only deck she needs. She doesn't plan to buy anymore -I don't know if anyone else feels like this about them.

[SherryZoned]

I will be getting the Osho Zen deck in a few weeks myself. I have never heard the call of this deck. Just one day I am like HEY i want to try out this deck..

Touching Base on what a bit of Truthsayer was saying. I feel that way about the Thoth that truthsayer Feels about Osho Zen. I do understand where she is coming from.

But maybe it was because I was reading Rosemarys Baby when I first got a thoth deck and they talked bout Crowley (not in a good way) LOL

I think I will get the deck see how it feels. Then go read the links. So I am not to tainted.

[alexis]

I remembered my first encounter with tarot was back in high school. my friends played the Ouja board and the priest was called in the next day. They had a tarot deck which they surrendered to the priest as well. (he said it was evil stuff and scared us with his stories.)

all the way, i had been "tampering" with chinese divination tools. But i realise they can be very accurate. Not only that, they predict your life from the moment you were born til the day you die. In other words, everything is fated in the world. I realise I din like that

Then, 10 years later, I woke up and had this "calling". haaha. it was just this strong feeling to read tarot cards. So what I did was, i went to Borders and looked at the stuff they had.

Prior to it, i did not know about the different themes of tarot, I did not even know the number of cards there should be in a deck. Nevertheless, Borders in Singapore had such limited selection of decks that come with book.

i remembered when i was making my decision to get this deck, I looked at the pictures -esp the ripeness pic. and in my mind i was saying i dont like this.

I should have gone with my gut feeling! aaah... i bought it because i wanted to get started soon on a deck. (darn)

sigh.. okie.. so i bought it, i opened it up. when i saw the master card, i felt like i really really dont like this deck. It feels too egoistic. further more, pardon me for saying this. ( haha.. i am not even sure if i should say this but... the master card reminds me of Osama).

Now and then, i will take this card out to look at it, to feel if i can connect with it or that i can at least like it...

my problem is, for the first few cards i look, i will think yes, i am beginning to like it. but after the first 15-25 cards. the feeling of not liking it comes up again... sigh sigh sigh.

besides this, the drawings give me the creeps sometimes.

oke.. tats my one cent worth on how i feel about this deck.
*btw, i do like zen philosophy.. but just not this osho zen

[Khatruman]

I find it amazing how differently people can react to the same deck. That says to me how much one's own intuition and understandings are important in the whole divination and card reading process.

I have recently heard at least three people talk about the "creepiness" of the Osho Zen deck. Through all my recent tarot purchasing frenzy, the Osho Zen remains my favorite deck. I have had many people who are not familiar with tarot get a very clear understanding of a reading with the Osho Zen. With the Rider Waite, they don't get it until I explain some of the symbolism, and they feel it as more of an occult thing. Osho Zen makes them feel more comfortable. And the Thoth often has people shuddering.

I do take out the Master card, because I find it too specific to be archetypal, which I think tarot ought to be. I just purchased Osho's Tarot in the Spirit of Zen book. I like the Zen philosophy of the deck, the focus on "now". I had no knowledge of the Osho controversy to taint my impression of the deck, so I really don't believe the controversy has an influence on the cards themselves or the imagery. That seems to be an issue involved in the organization, not the zen philosophy of the cards themselves.

Even the "negative" cards in the deck don't seem creepy to me. They reflect negativity only in humanity's disconnection with its own self awareness. I feel it as a lack that can be corrected, not, as some other decks portray negativity, as a dark force that overwhelms. Not even sure if I explained that right, but suffice it to say that Osho Zen tarot stands as my favorite deck.

[paradoxx]

Something happened to my Osho deck, not sure what, but its readings were becoming very very vauge and those that were direct were very, well, creepy. however, out of sheer synchronisity, i had left them next to a burning incense and the cards became slightly burnt on one side. The synchronisity does not end there, the deck was organized in order and the only cards that were affected by the burning insense was the major arcania, including the master card.

The keywords are very specific and can be more of the oracle than the pictures. Oshos excerpts are very enlighthing, although sometimes remanisant of the cult aspects. My favorite is the 6 of rainbows, Comprimise. This is one of the more accurate decsk i have and thanks to teh internet i can brag about it.

[little]

I think the Osho Zen is incredibly beautiful. In fact, its artwork is my favorite in my collection.

Like the Thoth, it requires me to put aside my knowledge of its creator's unsavory life and simply appreciate the artwork itself.

I think the Osho is very beginner-friendly, although you'd have to start learning more or less from scratch again with a more traditional deck.

I don't find it creepy at all, and I leave the Master in. I simply reinterpret the card- when it turns up in my readings, I see it as a teacher or role model.

[Logiatrix]

I tried out the Osho Zen a couple of times, putting aside the whole "Bhagwhan" thing. Actually, that never really bothered me.
What DID bother me was the very "new-agey" psuedo-Zen angle of Mr. Osho--in his writings OR in this tarot. As was stated previously here, his philosophies are largely a mish-mash of mainstream metaphysical aphorisms. Such canned quasi-oriental wisdom translates (and sells) well to the Western mind. It is not uncommon to find Zen and Taoism delivered in the same fortune cookie, for example.
})
In a kinder light, the cards of the Osho Zen Tarot are very beautiful.
In my not-so-humble opinion, here is yet another tarot deck that comes with a free door-stop (book).
Okay, perhaps I have a few issues w/ this deck...my apologies.
With that, I shall shut up.
:D

[ladycheryllynne]

I just picked up this deck yesterday. Wow! When they tell you to buy a deck that talks to you, I can now understand the meaning in that. This deck talks to me. I'm a beginner. Not doing too bad learning I must admit. I do however get somewhat bored by the same ol' cards. Osho Zen has been jumping out at me from the beginning. Now that I've got it, I have no doubt I'll do well with it. Some cards cause me a little challenge, but for the most part I'm able to pick a card and read it. I will admit I have a little knowledge of Eastern philosophies, so the meaning in the cards do not seem unusual to me. If you don't have an open mind, I can see where Westerners or those that only see in black and white, may not be able to get the jest of the meanings. I say give it a try. It's by far my favorite (I have four decks now), and I don't want for another as of now. Notice I say as of now. :) Good luck!

[Demonesse]

"Eastern" philosophy differs among different cultures. The Osho deck would not reflect the views of many Indians, methinks. Even in Buddhism you get different sects: Zen, Mahayana, Theravada etc.

I tend to agree with Tauni. The Osho Zen seems to me a so-called Zen-philosophy deck made to suit 'Westerners'. To quote her post, "Such canned quasi-oriental wisdom translates (and sells) well to the Western mind."

It is hardly the epitome of Eastern philosophy(!), although the deck itself and the inclusion of (probably somewhat skewed) Tao in it is actually not half bad...

[jay_haque]

to quote alan watts from his 1969 lecture on zen (downloadable from kazaa or shareaza):

the teachings of zen (particularly zen tales) work by 'shaking' the disciple, using any means necessary (whether absurdity, humor, fear etc) in order that they may experience zen (for zen is an experience and not something that can be captured on paper).

one story runs so:

a master was walking in the woods with 3 disciples. he picked up a branch and said, 'what is it?' to the first disciple.

the monk hesitated so the master hit him over the head with it.

he then turned to the second disciple and said, 'what is it?' holding out the branch.

the monk hesitated so the master hit him over the head too.

he turned to the third monk and asked, 'what is it?'

the monk replied, 'give me it so i may examine it and tell you what it is'

the master tossed his disciple the stick and the disciple promptly hit the master over the head with it,

to which the master replied, 'Ah! well you got yourself out of that one didnt you.'

the end.

the osho zen deck functions similar to this story. the creepy feeling people mention is the stick landing on their head. It makes no sense, it is absurd, it is a cheapshot and suggests violence. those who can work spontaneously and use the stick as the third monk are those the deck will work for. The deck is then the tool leading towards spontaneity, a trust in intuition and enlightenment with a sense of wonder and playfullness simultaneously.

[Master_Margarita]

Is it necessary to approve of the author of a deck to find the deck useful?

Is it possible to interpret a deck differently than the author may have strongly desired you to do?

Just thoughts...

M~