View Full Version : Jupiter in elective astrology and in natal chart

05-02-2010, 19:05
Hi - I hope someone can answer this one. It's a traditional astrology question.

I am planning to make a Jupiter talisman at a favourable date (already elected) - good position, no bad aspects (or any aspects!) with malefics or rulers of unfortunate houses.

I have double-checked the state of Jupiter in my natal chart: it's generally good - it's in Cancer, its sign of exaltation, and in mutual reception with the moon, it rules my 11th and the 7th houses. Both my luminaries are ruled by Jupiter. All good. It also rules the 8th house of death, because Sagittarius straddles the cusps of my 7th and 8th houses, and it's retrograde. Not so good.

So what I want to know is: do all the good stuff about my natal Jupiter balance out the bad to the point that it's fine for me to make a Jupiter talisman for myself? Or does that rulership of the 8th house and the retrograde motion of my natal Jupiter annul the good stuff as far as Jupiter talismans (and elections of Jupiter generally) are concerned?

06-02-2010, 02:01
Jupiter is the ruler of your eighth House using Placidus cusps, if you swap to
Regiomontanus, the cusp is in Capricorn and the eighth ruler is Saturn. One of the muddy areas of Astrology is house systems.

The only thing (and it's an important thing) that you don't mention is the election chart. Ideally Jupiter should be on the Ascendant or MC and not aspected by malefics at the time that you make your talisman - however if that is not possible (because of other committments) then you have to select a time as best you can - keep 'talisman' Jupiter out of bad houses at least.

Also look for aspects between your natal chart and election chart, for example you don't want natal Saturn (Lord 8 Regiomontanus) squaring or opposing Jupiter in the talisman chart or talisman Jupiter in your natal 6th, 8th or 12th houses.

There's no such thing as a perfect election chart, improving one planet's position ofte weakens another, but in your case the last thing you want is a weak Jupiter

06-02-2010, 19:16
Thanks, Minderwiz - I hadn't thought about the different house systems!

I would like to use a time when Jupiter is cazimi, which is coming up. I've thought of another query - would it be best if Jupiter were cazimi, or conjunct (and cazimi) my own natal sun or the transitting sun? My feeling is for the latter. Jupiter is cazimi in the 9th house on the 28 February, exact just before 2pm my time. If I elect it for 12:38, it is still well within the 17' and it's on the MC.

Looking at the election chart (28/02/10, 12:38pm Addis Ababa), I can't see any problematic aspects, no aspects to Saturn or Mars, and the only possible area of tension is the full moon in Virgo in an applying opposition to the cazimi Jupiter (4 degrees away) - I understand that's not necessarily a weakening factor, but I'd love to hear your opinion on that. The Ascendant of that chart is in Gemini, so the Lord of the chart is Mercury, who is in Aquarius in the 9th house, a degree ahead of Chiron and two degrees ahead of Neptune (I don't tend to count anything but the 7 classical planets when I am doing an election or horary chart, but I might be overlooking something). There is a wide square between Sun/Jupiter and the Ascendant (7 degrees).

If I compare it with my natal chart, this event takes place in my 11th house. It's also very close to my natal sun (3 degrees away). Would that cause a problem?

07-02-2010, 00:46
As the Talisman will be made (and completed?) at the Full Moon, that's an advantage (especially as the Moon is at it's strongest when approaching the Full Moon).

I would also treat transiting Jupiter applying to your natal Sun as a strong point. You are right to go for transiting Jupiter cazimi transiting Sun as I don't think the condition of cazimi applies to transiting Jupiter to natal Sun.

Lastly (though relatively weak) Venus is in her exaltation in Pisces and Jupiter trines it's own natal position by sign.

My only concern is that using Regiomontanus houses, the event takes place in the eighth!! We could swap back to Placidus but I don't think it's good practice to change House systems just to manufacture a result. So if it were me, I would move the timing 15 minutes earlier when the 'cazimi' is both more exact and also in the Ninth House using Regiomontanus. Some traditional Astrologers might consider that this is still too near the eighth cusp (within 5 degrees) so 14:15 is a completely safe time.

If the change in timing causes a problem, you can go as late as 14;34 and still be in the Ninth by Regiomontanus.

08-02-2010, 22:16
Thanks, Minderwiz!

I was actually thinking of doing it much earlier - at 12:38, which is still within cazimi degrees (it's distanced from the sun by 3 or 4 minutes at that time), but places Jupiter/Sun on the 10th house cusp. That way I can have it both ways. What do you think?

09-02-2010, 06:42
Yes that would work better if you are free at that time. If you can start 5 seconds earlier you will have Jupiter exactly conjunct the MC

09-02-2010, 16:35
It's a Sunday, I can be as free as I like!

Stop-watch talisman-making, LOL.

Thank you, Minderwiz, you've been very helpful.