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Beebs_94
12-03-2010, 06:41
Mods, if this isnt in the right place, feel free to move it! But now, onto my question...

Does being born premature have an effect of your natal birthchart?? I was reading my birth chart and the description of my rising sign is not really true to how i am. Some of it does reflect me but the rest doesnt...so it made me wonder if being born premature has an affect on your chart....

Nytebugg
12-03-2010, 07:41
I have wondered this too because I was born 3 months early. Although now that i know my rising sign and what sign my moon is in; things seem to make more sense to me.

Minderwiz
12-03-2010, 08:34
Hi Beebs,

No problem at all posting what is a really good question.

A natal chart is by definition a chart drawn for your time of birth (and of course date and place). So being premature doesn't make any difference to it. I can see your concern, Nytebugg makes a very good point, you need to consider Ascendant, Moon and Sun at the very least and really the chart as a whole. I am assuming that you have an accurately timed birth, as the Ascendant changes on average every two hours (and there is significant variation around that average).

One possibility is to look at a conception chart, though this requires you to know the time of conception to within a couple of hours at least. Even if you have a conception time, projecting a birth date at best will give you the actual day of birth but not the time, and therefore not the ascendant.

A natal chart is a special case of an 'event' chart - a birth is an event, as is conception, or your first day at school, or the time of your marriage. It's possible to cast chart for all of these, if we have the necessary data, and each chart will tell you something about yourself and how you relate to others and your environment. However you can't have a chart for a non-event, such as a birth that doesn't take place when you think it should have.

ravenest
12-03-2010, 08:37
I think the whole area of this rather interesting, I was talking to a friend about this a few days ago; Why is the moment of birth so significant? Why not the moment of conception or when the 'soul' enters the body in the womb, or ... whatever. Perhaps we are 'shielded' by the mother and at that moment of birth and first breath we are, for the first time, exposed to the 'astrological energies' and they imprint on us?

Otherwise, I suppose, its all worked out in advance so our birth coincides with that moment? If that is the case then perhaps the premature birth is worked out for that moment as well? Or perhaps it can change by other influences (medical, environment), to make the premature birth change the planned astrology?

I'd be interested to hear various astrologers takes on this.

I once knew a woman that claimed she was 'born' twice ( not a Christian :laugh: ) her head came out when only the trainee nurse was present, she didnt know what to do so pushed her back in and went and got the nursing sister, they came back and she came out again ... according to the woman - during a solar eclipse! I wonder what her chart would read like?

Plus there is always the issue of setting up your chart using a different system, so the ascendant would be different, then you might feel some harmony with the new result?

ravenest
12-03-2010, 08:43
A natal chart is a special case of an 'event' chart - a birth is an event, as is conception, or your first day at school, or the time of your marriage. It's possible to cast chart for all of these, if we have the necessary data, and each chart will tell you something about yourself and how you relate to others and your environment. However you can't have a chart for a non-event, such as a birth that doesn't take place when you think it should have.

Ahh. Thanks M - ya beat me by a minute. I see your point about an 'event' but doesnt this event of birth, the natal chart, usually represent some type of 'life pattern' or set. Or dont you see it like that and just use it as a focus to work the other charts, days, events etc?

Minderwiz
12-03-2010, 09:38
The natal chart is a 'special case' - it is related to one of only two major transformative events in our lives (the other being death). The natal chart encapsulates the significant possibilities of life - the things that have a real chance of manifesting.

That is not to say that everything in the chart will indeed manifest, environment and other lesser events may actually determine if this does indeed happen along with that special human characteristic of 'free will' (or at least the ability to make decisions and choices based on available information and the application of reason, logic and the ability to forecast outcomes).

That makes natal charts and natal Astrology more important than simple event Astrology and in the 'old days' apprentice Astrologers would work their way up to 'mastership' by doing horary and event charts before they were allowed to move on to natal work.

I did't make reference to a 'spiritual' dimension but quite clearly you could also argue that 'special' here is 'special' because humans have eternal souls and the birth marks the entry of a soul into a physical body and the subsequent entry of that physical and spiritual entity into the world.

ravenest
12-03-2010, 13:04
I did't make reference to a 'spiritual' dimension but quite clearly you could also argue that 'special' here is 'special' because humans have eternal souls and the birth marks the entry of a soul into a physical body and the subsequent entry of that physical and spiritual entity into the world.

Ah, I see, so you are saying that the soul comes into the body at the moment of birth? Okay ... (I have heard variant views on that). I guess my further 'whys' are more philosophy than astrology? Still, I find it fascinating as to 'why' or 'how' this 'imprint' (?) happens.

Minderwiz
12-03-2010, 20:35
I did't make reference to a 'spiritual' dimension but quite clearly you could also argue that 'special' here is 'special' because humans have eternal souls and the birth marks the entry of a soul into a physical body and the subsequent entry of that physical and spiritual entity into the world.

I didn't make any claims to a spiritual dimension, as the quote says. Whether you choose to is of course open to you (and indeed any other person) which was the point of adding this section. Personally, whilst I believe in the spiritual dimension of humanity, this might well be because I'm human and have an interest in it, or at a less cynical level, because I've never found a reliable indicator of spirituality in a natal chart - other than the chart itself, which of course might be what makes it 'special' in this sense.

As to the moment that a soul enters the body I too have seen all sorts of claims and was careful to use the workd subsequent to indicate a time lag - though an indeterminate one - between the soul's entry (I suppose I should say 'claimed' entry :) ) and the physical birth. As you say it's a philosophic issue. or perhaps these days a 'religious' issue as philosophy tends to have abandoned such issues (sadly).

celticnoodle
12-03-2010, 22:49
This is a very interesting thread. I didn't think it made a difference if you were premature-or late--the time and date of birth is the only thing that matters.

I was born VERY LATE! My mother's original due date was in Aug. and I was born Oct. 01. why I was not delivered via c-section, I'll never know--but I take my sign as a "LIBRA" and not Leo. I am very much a libra.

My daughter was also very late--and tho she was born by c-section, she should've been taken much earlier--she was born the end of July, but my due date was in May. She is very much the cancer that she was born into, and definitely NOT a taurus. so, even though we were born quite late--it's apparent we were born at the right time for us! :D

when I went so late with delivering my daughter, mom & I spoke about each of us going so late with our babies, and found out it was actually a very common thing in our family-and many of my family members, (cousins and such) were a good 4+ weeks later then the original due date.

DevilishAngel
13-03-2010, 05:25
I don't think it matters. Like others have said before, when you came out is when you were imprinted with those astrological energies that were being emitted at the time. If you don't feel like your rising sign, there are other factors that could contribute to that.

annik
13-03-2010, 07:11
Yeah, I must agree. Whatever if premature or late, it is more important the actual date and hour of birth. Kind of the here and now. There is so much that can impact on pregnancy! I had been a premature baby and when I was born, my mom was under a difficult situation. But my character is definitely a stubborn taurus!

On the other hand, my half-sister is born 10 days late and she is very piscean. And she always had an affinity with water. I don't imagine her being born on her due date!

Of course I don't fully feel in agreement with my chart. I have my Venus in Pieces and I find it hard sometimes!

lilangel09
13-03-2010, 07:37
I don't think it matters when you were supposed to be born. All that matters is when you were actually born. This is my view on it.

I've read (or misread) that the Ascendant or Rising sign is when you physically enter the world, which is why the rising sign is associated with physical characteristics.

There are a lot of factors in a chart that can influence a person. To base a reading wholly on a person's ASC or Sun sign is a mistake, you have to consider the chart as a whole.

Beebs_94
13-03-2010, 08:32
WOW! You guys! Thanks for all the feedback!

At least now i know that my Rising Sign and Ascendant Sign and the rest of the chart is basically my real chart lol. Its very interesting to see how at the moment that a person comes into this world the astrological energies (if you will) are glued to you...

Im going to try and figure out why my rising sign sorta doesnt fit with me!

You guys have given me alot of food for thought!! Thanks :)

Libra8ca
13-03-2010, 09:05
WOW! You guys! Thanks for all the feedback!

At least now i know that my Rising Sign and Ascendant Sign and the rest of the chart is basically my real chart lol. Its very interesting to see how at the moment that a person comes into this world the astrological energies (if you will) are glued to you...

Im going to try and figure out why my rising sign sorta doesnt fit with me!

You guys have given me alot of food for thought!! Thanks :)

You might want to look at your chart using the sidereal zodiac as opposed to the tropical zodiac. I find that the rising sign fits me better when I use the sidereal zodiac, but that's just me and everyone has to do their own research. Also the moon, sun and any stelliums will have an effect on you personality so you really have to look at the whole chart.

DevilishAngel
13-03-2010, 09:46
WOW! You guys! Thanks for all the feedback!

At least now i know that my Rising Sign and Ascendant Sign and the rest of the chart is basically my real chart lol. Its very interesting to see how at the moment that a person comes into this world the astrological energies (if you will) are glued to you...

Im going to try and figure out why my rising sign sorta doesnt fit with me!

You guys have given me alot of food for thought!! Thanks :)
You should look at the aspects to your ascendant and the other planets in the 1st house. And maybe read around more? Some places don't give that good of descriptions.