View Full Version : The large Thoth deck in the White Box - A different "energy"?
Rusty Neon
04-05-2003, 14:03
Hi folks ... I've seen the cards from the Thoth deck in the white box and they definitely seem like they might have a different _energy_ to them (because of their relative crudeness) than the more recent and morely nicely photographed, colour balanced cards that I have (U.S. Games purple box, medium size, with the three Magicians). (I didn't sense that the difference in energies had as much to do with the size differences between the cards.)
Has anyone sensed an appreciable difference in energies between the two styles in their readings? Or is the difference just a novelty that wears off?
Rusty Neon, I have noticed this difference, too. The cards in the large white box have a "raw" feeling, whereas the newer ones seem more refined and civilized. Like you, I don't know whether this perception reflects the novelty wearing off, or what -- I suspect it might be a bit of that, added to the fact that the newer cards are (as you note) color-balanced, with a slicker card stock. It's an interesting question. I bought the newer deck recently because my others are so old and I wanted to preserve them (I've had them since 1988), but I went back to using them because the new ones don't feel as direct, and I don't resonate as deeply with them.
Melissa`
05-05-2003, 05:41
About two years ago I knew someone who had the larger version of the Thoth. At that time I didn't know much about Crowley, much less the fact that he had a deck. My friend passed over a bundle of silk which held the cards. I had this creepy feeling as I started fumbling through them. Perhaps it was just the green tinge, was never fond of green, least it wasn't my first choice in color. Recently when I bought this deck, I bought the US games version. No creeps, no chills. I don't really know how to explain the vibes. As a lot of people here have already stated that they have had similar experiences, yet not sure what causes them. I know I would like to know what it is about the larger cards that causes most of us to get bad vibes.
Blessings,
Amaya
I have the greenish deck too, and I get a funny vibe from them- but I just thought it was because I was in a bad relationship when I got them. I don't get tham out very often, but I still think they give me a better reading than the nicer ones in the purple box. They just give me a creepy feeling (the greenish ones) so I am sort of nervous just about getting them out. I can't really explain it, but I am scared of that deck! Wierd.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who gets creeped out by the large green Thoth in the white box lol.
I bought these cards second hand but they had been looked after, the first time I took them out the box I felt strange. Then after handling them for a few seconds, I felt sick. It took all my nerve to put them back in the box.
Those first few moments stayed with me, when I handle these cards, I feel the hairs rise on the back of my neck, my hands feel dirty, and I do feel sick.
I really wanted to get to know these cards, I love the designs and the look of them so I bought a standard sized deck. When they first came I was nervous in case I felt the same way but these cards are very different, I can actually use them without feeling sick. lol And they are proving to be my favourite deck for reading and meditation.
I don't use the large green one at all ( don't touch it unless I have too), although I have moved it nearer to my other decks in case it was feeling like a 'castaway' lol :)
paradoxx
14-05-2003, 18:08
First of all i have the larg eediition Thoth deck that came in a green box. these cards do have the edging and the Ordo TEmpli Orientis logo on the boxes back. ISBN 0-913866-15-6 (heh, lots of sixes there, Crowley would chuckle). I don't know if this is the "white box" that is being talked about here or not. clarification would be nice.
second, my advise on clearing the cards, get some incense and candles and encircle the cards with an arrangment of fire and strong scents. reorder the cards (unless you can't handle it) and make sure that all are upright.
third, the color green: Green is teh color of money. teh OTO eye is the same general eye on teh back of the US Dollar/Great SEal. Many negative attributions of this symbol have been proclaimed (I have to like it, i share a june birthday with the great seal and have the mystic eye on the left hand. The eye that is upon me is the eye that is a part of me). Satanists also like the color green because of its association with money, greed, and manipulation therof.
fourth. In the LWB for the Thoth it describes an OGD invocation "I invoke theee, IAO, that thou wilt send HRU, teh great Angel that is set over the operations of this secret Wisdom, to lay ihis hand invisibly upon those consecrated cards of art, that thereby we may obtain true knowledge of hidden things to the glory thine ineffable Name. Amen."
Whereas i am not sure what HRU stands for to the OGD or anyone for that matter i do have knowledge about the current meaning of IAO. Military intellegence, headed by none other than John Poindexter (remember Iran-Contra), now has a brand new Information Awarness Office and their seal logo is, an eye above the pyramad of socities build overseeing the earth.
My point, i'm not sure. but the IAO acronym is kind of creepy to see in this decks LWB.
The eye is upon you.
Rusty Neon
14-05-2003, 18:24
Hi paradoxx ... I'm not an OGD follower, but a quick spin on google.com uncovered this handy glossary to look up those two words:
http://www.hermeticgoldendawn.org/gd-glossary.htm
paradoxx
15-05-2003, 00:02
So IAO is an acronym for Isis, Apophis, and Osiris. with that information known I have learned that Isis is related to Virgo as Apophis is Scorpio while Osiris is related to Sol according to the OGD rites i have found. Considering the obvious connections America has to Egypt and Rome(look on the back of the dollar) I do not think that the new miilitary intelligence is a friendly Office of Information Awarness.
Crowleys interpretations may not be exact to the OGD but this is something to watchout for when dealing with this deck. Not only that but the IAO(The government office) has a very unreal feel to it.
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Paranoid.htm
read the paragraph below the logo for a definite chill down your spine. But the truth is, the IAO Seal works as a very well a spread template and Crowley would be proud for good and for ill.
that was a pain to type out for some reason.
But after searching for the Thoth Tarot i have found this White Box (Which i Do not have) and even over the internet the energy is very unreal and potentially dangerous. The Energy that this thread questions could be the publisher (Llewllen vs. U.S. Games) and certain Llewllen decks do in fact give a strange feeling if left unchecked. Not only that, but somwhere on this forum it is referred that Crowley said "That the moon was the most dangerous card of the Tarot", whereas I am not sure if that was accurate, Llewlens logo is in fact, the moon, perhaps Crowley was unintentionally warning people that any card that represents Llewllen (see the exctra card in teh Shapeshifter Tarot) is the card of unreprised evil (or something like that).
This opinion does not reflect that of the managment or of any other living or dead concious life form. All rights reserved.
Hi Paradoxx,
The white box large green Thoth has the ISBN 087728 4520.
I have tried various ways of cleansing my deck, smudging, sea salt, sunlight, moonlight. None of these ways has worked, infact I've just got the deck out to check the ISBN number and its done it again, I sit here feeling slightly sick lol
I'm glad that I did get my small Thoth because this is a nice deck to use and at first I thought I'd got a problem with Crowley and his reputation, now I know I havent.
princessofp0wer
15-05-2003, 12:49
I have the Thoth deck in the big white box. Got it when I was in middle school. I love it, actually. The cards feel good to me. It's my favorite deck for doing personal readings. I've never even felt the need to look up meanings of the cards when reading. They just speak to me.
I'm baffled as to everyone else's reactions to this version of the deck :/ Perhaps it's a combination of nervousness about Crowley's reputation and feeling less threatened by things published by Llewellyn?
Hmm :(
It is strange about the green Thoth but if you look at the postings above, most of us who have started off with the green Thoth, and not clicked with it, have gone on to buy other versions of the deck and had no problems.
When I bought my green one I knew of the reputation of Crowley, but I'd seen the deck online, liked it and wanted to try to get to know it.
I'm glad I didn't let the green version end my liking of this deck because its a beautiful deck to use.
MystiqueMoonlight
16-05-2003, 01:47
Just to throw in here. I don't believe any deck can be embued with a particular character be it manevalant or otherwise.
IMO decks are static until you place your personal energy into it be it through consecration or continual use. To assume a deck of mass produced cards from a printing house contains any energy may be misleading.
Now I'm not aiming this at anyone in particular guys, it's my personal opinion.
:)
MM
Hi MystiqueMoonlight,
I think this is what has happened with my deck, because I bought it second hand I have no idea of its history, it didn't look used but it obviously had been - the bookshop also had Thoth and Crowley books from the same owner, the other smaller Thoth deck had already been sold.
I'm wondering now why the previous owner decided to get rid of all his, I do know that it was a he lol, Thoth/Crowley collections.
paradoxx
16-05-2003, 18:10
Those are suspicous circumstances in regard to your intutions about the deck.
The ISBN to the US Games Green Box (that i have) Deck
0 913866 15 6
so if there is any energy excludisve with the White Box edition I have no access to it, although the backs of this Green Box edition seem to vibrate at times.
I'm not sure "sick" is the word i would describe some of the feelings from the artwork, but "plainly distrubed" fits for some of the readings that i have recieved.
I suppose the last questions would be the publisher of the Green Thoth in the Large White box, as i have found one by Llwelin, one by US Games, and one by Weiser. and from teh pictues i have seen at www.isisbooks.com is that the card that has the red OTO logo is in fact different for each publisher. Also, if possible, does the extra red and black card give any specific feeling, the one i have does not seem to fit in to any kind of use i can identify for this deck.
Beyond that, i can't identify what the problem may be
Rusty Neon
16-05-2003, 18:21
Hi ... my original post was about the cards in the white box. Now that people have mentioned the cards in the green box .... I was wondering .... about the white box's cards vs. the green box's cards.
I only have the mid-size Thoth in the US Games purple box. I've seen the large cards of the large size Thoth deck in the white box but I've never seen the large cards of the US Games green box. Anyone who has both the white box cards and the green box cards ... what is the difference in appearance between the cards in the WHITE box and the cards in the GREEN box. I am guessing that the ones in the green box look photographically crisp (like cards in the purple box) but that they have a green tinge, while the cards in the white box are not as well photographically done and have colour contrast differences as between individual cards.
Thanks in advance!
paradoxx
16-05-2003, 18:34
I suppose the act of photography and the urban legends associated w/ it may factor into the interrpretations and visuakl receptivity to the cards.
Thoth1884
24-07-2003, 13:00
I have the Thoth deck.. in like the greyish blue marble box.... its not the large deck though...ibn # 0-88079-308-2 when i picked up the box.. i didn't get feelings... but started to recieve random images....
Ahh you have the one with the three Magus too Thoth1884, this is the deck I have, (I also use the mini one from 'The Complete Tarot Kit').
I like the size and colouring of this standard sized deck and I also prefer to use the eight armed magus not the one included with the large decks - The only thing that is missing from this deck is the unicursal hexagram card and I would love to know why they left it out.
Artemis Sans
30-07-2003, 01:51
God, I love the Thoth. I mean, where else can you get so many different cultural ideas and archetypes? That said, I also love the green box deck. I haven't read with my Rider-Waite in days because I'm so enamored with it. I bought the large cards (which are a bit clumsy in my tiny hands <: ) in the green box, and I can't seem to pull myself away from them!!! I catch myself just admiring them or thinking about them absent-mindely. I can't imagine how anyone could feel anything but positive, cross-cultural energy from these... but appartanly, some people do, and now I'm intrigued... Does anyone have a link to the site displaying the white-box cards?
-Artemis
suzyspellbound
08-08-2003, 18:56
I have the large white box -Thank you princessofp0wer, I LOVE my deck its the only one I have I am so surprised at so many of the bad reactions people have towards it - and I have looked/held different versions of it that just wouldn't do! Im not tying to argue if it sounds like I am- im just really suprised!
Cerulean
21-08-2003, 17:27
I compared both large versions at a new age store.
The very beautiful Knight (King) of Disks has a dark Shire horse with a glint in its eye as it faces the viewer. The glint is a brighter contrast in the newer gray-bordered edition from U.S. Games with the green box. I still see the massive horse, dark color ( Margaret Henry said they were bred for big loads in childhood horse books 3-). ).
The reeds among the horse's legs in the green version (white box) are a darker green, more shadowed, look like seaweed, not waving reeds. The gray bordered version has reeds that look brighter, lighter and waving around the horse's leg.
A subtle difference in the knight's turned away face is a slightly lighter shade, suggesting more detail and light areas in the gray-bordered deck.
Today, the greenish deck might be likened to the print run they might discard at the end as the colors blur...could be from old plates.
this being the only deck I have I dont have much to compare it to but when I was researching and then purchesed this deck I held several in my hands the thoth deck being the last because it pulled me to them, I felt there energy start in my palms and go right to the very being of me.... im new to all this and was a bit taken aback by the feeling and put the cards down.... took a few breaths and picked them back up when the same thing happened I knew i needed these cards and they needed me... im still learning the meanings of the cards but I find myself just sitting and holding them in my hands going threw each card and studing the pictures........ I didnt get that energy of the other 5 decks I held in the shop
All Is One
22-09-2003, 15:21
Clearly no one has an apathetic, 'pastel' reaction to this deck.
Not being much of a pastel person myself, as a scorpio, this deck works wonders for me.
I am looking for the swiss printed version because I want to see the colors more vividly. Who knows if I will click with those versions of the Thoth the way I did with this one?
I have the large white box greenish Thoth also. When I first got them, they seemed to have a wierd vibe to me, too. One of the only used decks (very gently used, this one) I actually did a clensing ritual to. Now the deck has been with me awhile, it's fine, and I don't get that feeling from it anymore. I would like to get the new US GAMES version someday, but I'm not in a hurry at the moment.
Oddly enough, I didn't have negative feelings about Crowley like a lot of people do/did. When I was kid (14? 15?) I found him very interesting, and read quite extensively about him. Not a nice person, but in some ways, quite a bit ahead of his time.
Hi VGimlet,
I do think its the colour - it's such a sickly green, it really does drown out any detail on the cards and they are also big. I would love to know why they published such a poorly coloured deck.
My smaller Thoths, the standard and the pocket versions, just don't have the same feel about them, the colours are brighter and the detail is obvious. I can honestly say I've never gagged as I've took them out of their boxes like I do everytime with the Green version Thoth lol
Rusty Neon
08-02-2004, 10:24
For clarity, as far as I know, there are 3 different current versions of a large size Thoth deck with English card titles and sold in English-speaking countries:
(1) the one in the U.S. Games white-coloured box - (possibly out of print, but still around sometimes). There is tinge here but different from the U.S. Games green box. Colour uniform isn't from card to card within the same deck. Cards images not very clear.
(2) the one with the green-tinged colours , in the U.S. Games green box. Images more clear than those in from the white-box deck. However, colour is uniform colour from card to card.
(3) the one with accurate colours, in the AG Mueller blue box.
And ... by the way, there's ALSO a long-out-of-print black and white Thoth deck whose cards might also be large sized. Relatively rare deck, I guess.
paradoxx
08-02-2004, 15:13
Its strange that this thread returned to the top, i had a dream that involved the name Crowley quite often. what was strange about teh dream though, is that the door behind me where i was sitting, would open and close on its own. As of recently, my dreams have ended with the passage through a door or a hallway, so ignoring the door moving on its own was something else.
To relate to the thread though, crowleys deck does not bother me, some of the interpretations are so-so but other than that the large us games deck i have works quite well. I do have the Encyclopedia of witchcraft which does have a picture of crowley in it, and that picture does give me an odd feeling. Makes you wonder what his general attitude was like.
The seaweed comment, that ironic since the knight of disks is capricorn and can be associated with seahorses. perhaps there are certain synchronisities that should not be ignored.
Originally posted by Emily <snipped>
I do think its the colour - it's such a sickly green, it really does drown out any detail on the cards and they are also big.
<snip>
I can honestly say I've never gagged as I've took them out of their boxes like I do everytime with the Green version Thoth lol
They really are a horrid green, too. :P And the green in the rest of the cards seems to pick up the green in the border. I have gotten used to it, though, although I've reconsidered - when I'm ready to start reading with this deck, I think I'll order a different version after all.
[i] Originally posted by paradoxx[i] <snipped>
I do have the Encyclopedia of witchcraft which does have a picture of crowley in it, and that picture does give me an odd feeling. Makes you wonder what his general attitude was like.
From what I remember (and those of you who have read about him lately will please correct me if I'm wrong) is that he was a brilliant, brilliant man. So supremely arrogant he felt he was above everyone, in every way. I think that comes across in his pictures. And also a drug addict -- although this has been debated.
Phoenyx*
08-02-2004, 17:27
He certainly has a way of writing that makes you feel like he knows everything. Not quite sure if that's a good thing though.
Thoth deck, greyish blue or I thought it was a shade of purple, this is why I bought the deck. Wanted to see what it was about. I feel the cards are bold but the box softens the deck. I'm not sure what I think of them, just that they are intimidating (don't know why) but I'm going to figure it out if I don't get lost with Crowley's thoughts in the meantime. Mabee that's what it is all about, "the thoughts that he leaves us with."
Gardener
12-02-2004, 09:42
Hello all,
Funny that this should be my first posting on Aeclectic, but I can't resist. I've been reading threads for about a month, which is how long I've been back in the exploration of Tarot. The only deck I still owned from my college years was the large Thoth in the white box, and I was thrilled to rediscover it. However, I found myself reluctant to use it, mostly because of the green tinge and poor quality. I worked with new decks, especially the Rhorig. But I kept returning to the Thoth, for its strong presence. But the readings were a little harsh, so I continued to waffle. Then, the final straw! I asked my boyfriend to select a card while thinking about our relationship, and he pulled...
can you guess?
The Devil!!
(Now because you all don't know me yet, I have to say our relationship has been going on five years, and is a good one, honest!)
So now that this deck hurt my feelings, I won't use it.
Then I read this very thread, and went to the local Barnes and Noble, and bought the standard Thoth in the purple box, and I LOVE IT! It is WONDERFUL! The paintings are so much more beautiful, I see details I never saw before, and I feel like I understand why the astrological symbols are there - for the first time.
And the shuffling! Perfect size and feel, hypnotic.
Then I did a three card spread, asking if this deck would like to work with me. I had selected an alternate Magus, the one with the ape as a shadow enveloping the Magus, and set the other two aside. For the spread, the new Magus came up in the center, wtih Ace of Wand and Princess of Disks flanking. Isn't that beautiful? I was so happy.
Thank you all for participating in this thread that helped my solve my thoth-deck "situation"!
Hi Gardener, Welcome to AT,
I know what you mean about the details on the cards - I also have the large green Thoth and the poor colour and quality does cover most of the details. I switched to the 3 Magus version, its alot smaller to handle and easier and I also have the pocket version which is small without losing any of the detail.
I'm glad that they bought this deck out in different colour versions and sizes - I just wish that they would stop selling the green tinged version. They still have it on Amazon UK and its the more expensive one too.