Tarot Decks Copyright?

Hi, i would like to ask a question about copyrights to tarot cards decks. lots of free tarot webs and online readings applications use pictures of Crowley, Rider-Waite etc. cards. is it legal?

I also like to run my own Tarot application online and - if it is legal - be glad to use a commonly known tarot cards pictures. but do not want to go against any rules and laws.

someone can help? Thanks a lot.

Not sure if this would be helpful to your exact requirements:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=75304

All versions of The Crowley Thoth Tarot from what I understand are under copyright.

However there are public domain versions of the Rider Waite Smith which are available on the internet. A full pd RWS is available on WikiCommons website.

The legality of it depends on the laws where you are. There's a lot of uncertainty in copyright law when it comes to digital media, as the laws and precedents lag behind the reality. In the U.S., I think you could argue that displaying card images in the context of a review or a reading constitutes fair use, assuming you own a legal copy of the deck. Whether that would be a successful argument, I couldn't say. In practice, it often comes down to how aggressive the copyright holder chooses to be and who has the better lawyers.

I do see some sites with "used by permission" notices, so it's possible to go to the publisher or whoever and ask. But given the number of sites showing card images, in some cases entire decks, I suspect that Tarot publishers are generally not concerned about pictures of their cards being used online.

For non-commercial purposes I think you would not get into any trouble, and in most places you would get hit with nothing worse than a "cease and desist" request. This question keeps coming up and I haven't yet seen anyone respond with a report of any actual enforcement.

Maskelyne said:

The legality of it depends on the laws where you are. There's a lot of uncertainty in copyright law when it comes to digital media, as the laws and precedents lag behind the reality. In the U.S., I think you could argue that displaying card images in the context of a review or a reading constitutes fair use, assuming you own a legal copy of the deck. Whether that would be a successful argument, I couldn't say. In practice, it often comes down to how aggressive the copyright holder chooses to be and who has the better lawyers.

I do see some sites with "used by permission" notices, so it's possible to go to the publisher or whoever and ask. But given the number of sites showing card images, in some cases entire decks, I suspect that Tarot publishers are generally not concerned about pictures of their cards being used online.

For non-commercial purposes I think you would not get into any trouble, and in most places you would get hit with nothing worse than a "cease and desist" request. This question keeps coming up and I haven't yet seen anyone respond with a report of any actual enforcement.

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I disagree with many points on this post. Many tarot publishers are *very* concerned about unauthorized reproductions of their decks being posted online and used in products. And they have engaged legal representation and engaged in enforcement many times from the US to Russia.

If you want to reproduce an entire deck for any purpose, contact the creator/publisher of the deck and ask for permission.

Creators and publishers by law *must* go after known infringers of their property; if they were to establish a history of knowingly faiing to do so, then they lose their rights, and open the door to being commercially pirated.

It doesn't matter if it is for commercial or non-commercial use; if you scan an entire deck and post it (which is a form of publishing) or distribute it in any other form (such as in software) without permission you are imperiling the owners' rights and they must ask you to stop.

The status of both the RWS and the Thoth legally for reproduction are under some question; US Games has been known to go after reproductions of their printings of the RWS.

As for "fair use", there is a formula for determining how much of a creation may be reproduced for purpose of review or scholarship. Most reviews don't show more than six cards out of a deck.

The good news is that there are deck creators out there who will be happy to give you permission to use their deck, provided you give proper credit & basically are a good partner in marketing.

Hi, Pagan. I have to confess I was expressing some uneducated opinions there. However, I see sites mentioned in this forum which show scans of entire decks. While some of them (albideuter.de, e.g.) have obtained permission, others don't even mention the publisher. Have there in fact been copyright infringement actions brought against any of these sites?

Rationally speaking (not that that counts for anything), these sites benefit the publishers more than they harm them, as people use these sites to identify decks they want to buy. Producing an actual usable tarot deck from them would be more time and expense than the deck is worth, and the resulting quality would be low.

I was basing my answer on the apparent impunity with which cards are depicted, coupled with the opinion that seeing pictures of cards online is a long way from having a Tarot deck.

You do bring up a good point about getting permission - it appears that all of the major publishers are happy to allow you to use their images online, provided you acknowledge their copyrights.

I'm afraid you are wrong about the issue of reproducing decks from such sites. It is done (typically out of Russia and China); such decks are indeed lower quality; the consumer is ripped off and the legal creator is denied a sale. It also has negative effects on the creator, because customers may not realize that the poorly produced deck, sold using pictures of the real deck, is not the real thing.

Baba Studios had to deal with this probem in Russia recently, http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=135428

Many of those sites are shut down, but if they are hosted in a country where the host service doesn't enforce copyright, there's not much that can be done about them.

The best advice is to contact the publisher or creator of the deck you want to use and explain what you want to do with it. If you are using the cards on a commercial site you will likely have to pay a fee to use them. Indie decks are more likely to give permission for free or inexpensive use but you do want to ask.

If I had created a deck I definitely wouldn't want the whole thing up on the web but I bet you could make a case for a few cards.

There are a number of small ways in which cards are used online that I imagine is done without the permission of a publisher. What springs to mind are the youtube videos people create on how to use tarot cards or some of the head shots tarot professionals use to advertise themselves. I imagine that's illegal but of small importance to a publisher.

Maskelyne said:

You do bring up a good point about getting permission - it appears that all of the major publishers are happy to allow you to use their images online, provided you acknowledge their copyrights.

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That is not completely correct.

This issue of copyright has been raised on several threads, and one line of thought that has often been used, worries me. Namely, to not be too concerned because there is little chance of repercussions. That may be the case, but that doesn't make the act of reproducing someone else's work without their permission, legally or morally right. By that rational it shouldn't be a problem for anyone to commit a crime if the chances of being caught and punished is negligible.

The other misconception often raised is that no harm is done or that it actually benefits the publisher or deck creator by showing the images, on the contrary it may even encourage sales of the actual deck. Well if thinking that makes anyone feel better, so be it. but then I guess you could argue that it would be ok to shop lift an item, because showing the goodies around afterwards may encourage other to go to that same store and actually buy the items.

Would you use either of these justifications to your kids when bringing them up?

It may well be that showing the entire deck may convince someone that they like it enough to buy it. But that should nevertheless be a decision and choice made by the copyright holder not whoever wants to put the images on line for all to see to boost their own web site as a "service" to the tarot community.

If you want to write a review of the deck normally you can use a few cards (less than 10) to accompany your article. Any more than that and certainly the full deck requires written approval.

This legal and moral rational also applies to on line readings and here I admit there are some grey areas. I personally would have no issue with say a Youtube video of someone using my cards for a reading, including a reasonable close ups. I absolutely would NOT be happy with the use of my cards as part of on line reading service or reading software, irrespective of wether the service was commercial or not. Why? Because licensing of images for that kind of use can be an income source, and possibly a very needed one especially for a designer who deck may not have been published in the physical sense. Their work would be rendered worthless, or at least worth... less, if they lose control over it i.e. someone has already the published the images on-line.

In these days of ripp off Rolex watches, Gucci bags, pirated software, music and movies, its easy to be lulled into this guilt free la la land acceptance that in less complicated time would be quite obviously wrong.

Nevertheless back to the issue of Tarot,
If your intention is to scan your deck, make a montage, and turn it into a winter coat for the neighbors cat, I doubt if anyone would give a damn. Take a photograph of it and put it up on e-bay, or your on line gift store to sell more of them and the line has been crossed. This is not rocket science or nebulous laws that vary from country to country, or internet laws that aren't clear yet. Its actually quite simple, without permission.... its wrong.

So when in doubt.... ask.