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HOLMES
13-05-2003, 15:46
here is my thinking .

1. the sun is the one of the universe for it is the center of our little solar system and everything in our solar system rotates around its gravity
2. the corresponding planet outward from the planet in relation to numbers fit the ideal by this spiritual arguement.
the angel of earth is here to watch over the earth and holds the english number of three the emperess. all other planets have to fall in line.
3. you can't define a planet by a number is what someone has told me, it makes the most logical sense to me coming from the sun as 1, pluto as 10.

other do it by speed of planets which to my mind would mean it is the most active, for the reason of doing it.

other do it by relation to effect on the earth which makes the most sense. as every planet surrounding us keeps us in order example
if mars slightly got knocked out of orbit, earth orbit would adjust and we would burn or freeze . right ?

http://www.gotoit.com/titles/numero.htm
Numerology-- With Tantra, Ayurveda, and Astrology
(ps i dont' have it, or read it )
has a good list of planets with numbers
(don't know what a rau, or a ketu is.

i will agree the ideal of a planet being defined by a number on a grand scale is hard to think off.

so is defining the universe by stars , and cards archtypes, or picking out sticks from a pile

it is possible in the maco and micro crosm of the universe.
(as above so below, as within so without, as in the mind in the body)

Keslynn
14-05-2003, 02:58
Holmes,
If you check out some older treatises on Hermetic magic, then you will see that they did indeed assign certain numbers to certain gods/planets. I don't have the titles right off the top of my head, but you might want to check out Cornelius Agrippa. Also, Hermetic magicians used something called a magic square in which all the rows added up to the same number. These were associated with specific planets and purposes and worn as amulets.

By the way, Holmes, are you a Virgo?

:) Kes

lunalafey
14-05-2003, 05:21
NUMBERS!....Umbrae just went over the use of soul/year cards & thier validity since it's based on the year(s) of the common calander. The days and years are given numbers so we humans can keep track. Numbers hold no value by themselves, they are just 'titles' so to speak. You can have 45 guests at a party, but the #45 alone means nothing, but think, it only takes 9 bottles of champagne for everyone to have a 6oz. glass...numbers are 'lables'
With so many suns out in the universe, how can you call our sun 1?
Now this does not mean I'm anti-numerology, there is universal magic, conversion of energy from the subject via the lable.
IF i were to place numbers upon planets, the sun would be 0, for it is the center, it is from where all else gets it's start. You could then work your way outward 1. merc, 2. ven, 3....UH...on what day? what time? sometimes the moon is between the sun & earth. Then there is the two outter planets that switch order(eliptical orbit) For me, it's a toss-up, but I think by size is best, smallest to largest celestial body. To list by speed as in astrology(which makes sense)The moon's 1st becase it's speed through the zodiac is the fastest, but we view this from earth, so, also the sun appears to be in movement, & what number would be given to earth? Outside of astrology the moon travels around the sun with the earth, hmmm.....
see Holmes, why I like to keep numbers & planets seperate?

HOLMES
14-05-2003, 08:24
i didn't read umbrae use of the soul/year cards and their validity. (i didnt' see it under new posts , it must be masked deep in a thread )
the numbers help us keep track for the calender does not move the universe so i understand we can not defined the whole universe by the calender, yet with that being said as it relates to us as a race upon the globe of earth then we have to use it to define how the universe affects us.

our sun is one in our solar system, it came from the closest big bang which would be 0. (i believe the universe is constantly evolving, constricting and just is all at once for it is so infinite at this time , *who knows in 2 thousand years from now what we will find out. *

the sun could be 0, (i will concede that point ) and it could be 1 (saying it is could be both ) for every number from 1 to 0 has a 0 and a 9 in it.
as we do astrology far as i know it hardly done to use the earth in astrology itself, for as i understand astrology measures the influences of the heavenly bodies upon us, the individual and the nation and the whole world.
for applying which planet is the smallest or biggest, or fastest, or closest to the planet earth is a matter of personal individuation. (probaly spelt that word wrong lol)

i like the idea of sun 1.
moon 2,
mercury 3
venus, 4
mars
jupiter
saturn
uranus
neptune
pluto
as that is what i am learned from a brunch of websites naming order of planets in astrology.

i could of did the exact order of planets, making
1, sun
2, mercury
3. venus
4. moon (in place of earth)
5. mars
6. jupiter
7. saturn
8. uranus
9 neptune
10 pluto .
of course i haven't decided yet which assocation of planets i like, one example of a planet association is .

aces=pluto
twos= uranus
threes=neptune
fours=jupiter
fives=mars
sixes=sun
sevens=venus
eights=mercury
nines=moon
tens=saturn

which is just the anicent seven known at the time to the golden dawn, and the new planets tranposed over (this system is used in the jungian tarot )
(i may be wrong on that i will have to read the qablaistic tarot and jungian tarot again. )

i come from a non ritualistic point of view and just trying to put it in clear concise system i can understand :O)
(yes im a virgo )

Keslynn
14-05-2003, 12:19
Just FYI, in planetary order before the outer planets were discovered, it went like this:

Earth
Moon
Mercury
Venus
Sun
Mars
Jupiter
Saturn

During the Renaissance, it was still widely believed that the earth was the center of the solar system. The Copernican (heliocentric) solar system theory was just emerging. Older systems would probably work from a geocentric basis, and considering that astrology accounts for planetary forces acting on the earth, this might even be more appropriate for modern use.

Just a thought. And I could tell you were a Virgo. :) Organize away, dear Holmes.

:) Kes