History of oracle traditions

I'm interested in the history of various oracle traditions and starting this thread to see who here knows more about them. These are the traditions that we all know:

Lenormand
Kipper
Sibilla
Gipsy oracles

I'm uncertain about the last two. Are Sibilla and Gipsy oracles two different traditions? Most of the cards overlap but some do not. I always thought Sibilla oracles come from Northern Italy and Gipsy decks from the regions of the former Austro-Hungarian empire.

The Kipper tradition is German and ascribed either to Susanne Kipper (19th century) or the Kipper people of the Thirty-Years War, who dealt in scrap metal and were travellers like the Roma.

The Lenormand tradition is, of course, French and probably the best documented, allegedly going back to the 18th century.

Can anyone add anything to this?

And is there an English oracle tradition?

The first sibilla was french and was called "La sibille du salon" or the Parlour Sybil. It was created after the Petit LeNormand during the 19th century and like the Petit Lenormand it was made and called that way due to Mlle Lenormand.

I think that the Parlour Sybil was illustrated by Grandville a famous french illustrator.

The sibilla has 52 cards with playing cards inserts and images that show the meanings of the cards.

The french sibilla was quite popular and it drove a few countries in Europe from Italy to Germany to Austria (and more) to come up with their own localized version. The italian sibillas have kept the 52 cards and the playing cards insert for most of their decks. Other countries like Germany and their Kipper cut the deck from 52 cards to 36 (à la Petit Lenormand) and got rid of the playing cards insert as well. But both types still have illustrations of the meanings of the cards.

Petit Lenormand and Sibillas are different because the Petit Lenormand uses symbols while sibillas have meanings illustrated on the cards.

I've never heard of any english oracle tradition.

BrightEye said:

I'm interested in the history of various oracle traditions and starting this thread to see who here knows more about them.

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Great idea! I think they are all variations of playing cards. I can think of one other off the top of my head, i.e. the Belline that Tarot d'Eltynne is fashioned after.

http://www.sofeminine.co.uk/guide/astro/f8471-the-belline-oracle.html

http://mandefield.free.fr/eltynne_en/eltynne_origine.html

Thanks for input and links. I have some work to do right now but will come back to this.

BrightEye said:

Thanks for input and links. I have some work to do right now but will come back to this.

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Please don't worry on my account. I have stuff to do too, procrastinating as usual...

I too have since discovered (after counting the cards of my various decks) that some have 52 and others 36 cards! None of my Sibillas (except one) have playing card inserts though. However, the number of cards suggests that they do derive from playing cards.

I have a Belline Oracle too! A very mysterious little deck. Now I must have the Oracle D'Eltynne! You enabler, you!

Sorry about that Heck, this whole forum is an enabler

These cartomancy decks usually have 32, 36 or 52 cards.

For the smaller ones, they are formed by removing cards 2 to 5 or 2 to 6 and leaving only the (6), 7, 8, 9, 10, Jack, Queen, King and Ace.

Are you asking about oracle deck traditions? Because actual oracle traditions exist in many ancient cultures, e.g. the oracle at Delphi, the I Ching, etc.

M_M~

Yes, I'm asking about deck traditions.

BrightEye said:

And is there an English oracle tradition?

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I suppose they count; Lenthall's Fortune Telling Cards. They are derived from playing cards (but if Ana Cortez's Playing Card Oracles count as an oracle then these do!) but have a distinct Oracular flaavour and went into various editions between the end of the 17th Century and the beginings of the 18th Century. I have a facsimilie edition of the 1712 edition. I believe they first came out in 1680-ish.

As a playing card oracle (distinct from bones or dice or whatever else was used in the past) they predate the other systems of Sibilla's and Lenormand cards (i.e with symbols) etc.

I suppose the tradition merges somewhat because all of these systems are essentially based on playing cards. Great idea for a thread. I can never quite get all these different types of cards straight in my mind!