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tanis
21-05-2003, 22:16
Why are virgo's always protrayed as power hungry perfectionists that are always prim and proper with everything in place? I mean im a virgo and im far from tidy. my room is nearly all ways a tip. Can anyone explain it to me? Virgo's afterall make the world go round as they are all ways working as other people's cart horses! =:?(

dadsnook2000
21-05-2003, 23:26
If Virgos didn't have the ability to push others then how would they be able to control their environment's order and alignment? Now, not all Virgos are neat freaks. Neatness is just an ordering of a moderate or minimal amount of stuff. When a Virgo has a lot of stuff they sometimes don't catagorize, file and pack it all up BUT just like it to be exactly where they dropped it last. It may look like a mess but it is a remembered and intentional mess. I'm a double Virgo (Sun and Moon) with Cancer rising. Somethings I keep neat and orderly, other things I keep in a "controlled mess" state of being -- I just know where it is and others had better not rearragne it. Dave.

Minderwiz
22-05-2003, 00:54
Tanis,

You may be a Sun sign Virgo but this doesn't necessarily mean that you are predominantly Virgo. As well as the Sun there are nine other Planets which may well be in other signs, there is your Ascendant and your MC. You might well be predominantly Gemini instead LOL

If you want a run down post your birth details - time, place and Date.

isthmus nekoi
22-05-2003, 02:44
Minderwiz is right, you may well have many placements that tone down any Virgo-ness in you...

And yes, it's true Virgo gets the rep for being a critical neat freak.. but Virgo has its really good points too as it is the sign of health and order. Virgo is great for hygiene too! My roommate has a Virgo moon. He always smells wonderful (no small feat for a young guy lol) and we keep the place neat as a pin w/o a schedule or anything. A welcome change from the unhygienic roomies I've had in the past!!

lunalafey
22-05-2003, 05:24
I have quite a bit of Virgo, AC, Jup, Plu & Ura.
I out clean everyone at work. I'm the only one who will tackle
the organization of cabinets! But my home? that's a different story
Dads explination about knowing where it's been dropped in the 'mess' is so true in my case. LOL, my mess is organized.

gypsy_morrigan
22-05-2003, 06:10
Hmm, I think that makes sense, because I've always wondered about that too! My older brother is a Virgo and he is very messy, always leaving stuff wherever he drops it, but then he is always the "finder" in our house, able to locate anything! He is also rather particular about his appearace and likes dressing up and being neat.

firemaiden
22-05-2003, 06:49
Originally posted by tanis
Why are virgo's always protrayed as power hungry perfectionists that are always prim and proper with everything in place? I mean im a virgo and im far from tidy. my room is nearly all ways a tip. Can anyone explain it to me? Virgo's afterall make the world go round as they are all ways working as other people's cart horses! =:?(

As a fellow virgo, and whose room is a tornado, I say it is because the people who write this balderdash needed someone to pick on, so they picked on us, because we're nice. Just think about it, 12 stereotypes. Somebodys got to embody the anally retentive retard. Then if you rebel, "oh, so you're not a neat freak, oh that's easy, your only partly a virgo....and the fact that you disagree proves that you are critical and persnickety"

Sorry guys, it doesn't make one whiff of sense to me. This is the flaw that disproves the whole theory...

And I'll bet there are plently of non-virgos that CAN keep their rooms neat. I think it has much more to do with the example you were raised with, your priorities, your time, whether you are visual or aural, than with which stars were where when you popped out.

Minderwiz
22-05-2003, 07:12
Well none of us are a pure sterotype! Stereotypes are little boxes invented to try and provide sweeping generalisations about people.

No Astrologer worth their salt would declare that everyone was an identiperson and fitted exactly into the predetermined box.

I'm a Sun sign Libra, and I do like harmony and balance to a degree and I've also got Neptune in Libra. However I've got Moon in Aquarius, Mercury, Venus and Jupiter in Scorpio, Mars, Saturn, Pluto and my Ascendant in Leo. So I'm a fair mix of Libra, Scorpio and Leo with a dash of Gemini (Uranus) and a dash of Taurus (MC). I might like harmony but there are times when I can stir things just to see what happens (Mars in Leo and Jupiter in Scorpio) - indeed I can be quite confrontational just to provoke a reaction or to keep an argument going by playing devil's advocate - none of this is 'Libra' but it is me!

My daughter has a Virgo Ascendant - she suffers from a 'typical' Virgo complaint of Irritible Bowel Syndrome. Her room is a tip most of the time but she likes to organise people and for people. Its her who does the organising of trips/hen does etc for her friends. Indeed at our very first primary school parents evening the message was that she likes organising people.

However she is a Sun sign Taurus, and she has Moon, Mercury, Venus and Mars in Aries - she's a one woman panzer division when she wants to be.

Its important to realise that nearly all Astrologers treat Sun sign attribution of personality as extremely dangerous - even those that right 'Stars' columns in newspapers and magazines.

HOLMES
22-05-2003, 07:36
lol organizing people ?

when i was in a school play i was about 6 or 7 , they film me going around the stand putting people in their proper places and my mom told me she laughed like hell when i did that, for i look so serious and like i belonged there doing that. (i remembe laughing when i saw myself doing that a week or two after on tv )

my room is one big mess, so i dont' think (sept 8, 430 am 1975) that i am a true virgo.
but that organizing people was sooo funny eheh.

azuremariposa
22-05-2003, 08:29
well, my dad was a Virgo (Sept 9, 1947) w/an Aries Rising...

he was probably one of the most methodical thinkers i've ever known...he could be neat, or messy, depending on his mood...

but as far as appearance, he was always impeccably dressed...he used hairspray long before it was fashionable for men to do so...his hair was never out of place...:)

he had Sun, Mercury & Venus all in Virgo...so, it was a strong influence w/him...though i don't think anyone would have ever described him as "power hungry"...he was a perfectionist...but then, so am i and i don't have a lick of Virgo in me...

i think stereotypes are dangerous things...we are all multi-faceted people...to classify people this way is just wrong...stereotypes are just wrong, period...IMO, of course...

many blessings,

~azure

Minderwiz
22-05-2003, 09:52
I agree with you about Stereotypes. That's why we shouldn't jump to conclusions about people before we've seen the whole chart and integrated all the information in it.

Your Dad clearly had some Virgo in him but there was a lot more than that to the whole man. And with respect you do have some Virgo in you - we all do. Part of your natal chart lies in Virgo (as does everyone elses) and in that area of life you will exhibit some Virgo characteristics. This might well be a minor part of your character but it is still there.

In my case Virgo is on the cusp of my second House. I used to be extremely meticulous about possessions and money. Now I tend to worry about money, the meticulous side having subsided somewhat :) I do tend to bring Virgo characteristics to the way in which I learn skills or apply talents. Its not something that is upfront but it is there.

isthmus nekoi
22-05-2003, 10:12
^_^ I don't have any Virgo planets, and I'm quite the opposite: keeping things neat but *never* knowing where anything is :P

I think all the signs get the bad stereotyping every now and then.... Capricorns are evil capitalists, Cancers are moody crybabies, Aries are self centered egoists, Scorps are just... plain psycho...... of course, there are the positive stereotypes too.... Capricorns are ambitious enterpreneurs, Cancers are nurturing and protective, Aries are brave leaders, and Scorps are drop dead sexy! etc etc

paradoxx
22-05-2003, 17:30
Im a solar Gemini, but im a rising virgo with my ruling planet Mercury in retro (mercury rules me both in solar and accendign energies). Im a walking chaos factory, i work with words like clay and mold giant castles i later destroy. I am contantly talking to myself like a gemini but i only do so in certain ways like a virgo. I appear boring and simple like a virgo, but i cover a wide expance of topice like a Gemini. My mind is so attuned to detail thanks to this wonderful combindation (and lots of stamina with Mars in Gemini) and fine asthetic sense (so ive been told as reaffirmed by Venus in Cancer). With Leo as my 12th house, my undoing is my abilities to lead, as well as the details of leading since the first 2 degrees of virgo are also in my 12th house. Depending on which house system you go by there are numerous points of interest in my chart, but it boils down the fact that both Gemins and Virgos have a tendancly to be high strung and when out of control of their environments, those environments look like they've been hit wiht a tornado/twister/hurricane (it varies) just so that they can (painstakingly) organize it even better.

Me, i'm a firm beliver that order and disorder are opposites and chaos lies between.

tanis
22-05-2003, 20:19
Thank you for replying I was born in The john racliff hospital in oxford(City of dreaming spires) and 1:23 on september the 20th. i don't know the co-ordinates though. =:?}

Minderwiz
22-05-2003, 21:34
No problem I have the coordinates for Oxford in the Atlas in my Astrology prog. Howerver I do have a query -

1:23 am or 1:23 pm?

firemaiden
22-05-2003, 23:09
Originally posted by Minderwiz
I agree with you about Stereotypes. That's why we shouldn't jump to conclusions about people before we've seen the whole chart and integrated all the information in it.

...or ever.

isthmus nekoi
23-05-2003, 02:13
good point firemaiden! The worst thing you could do w/a natal chart is set your interpretation in stone. The problem w/stereotypes I find is not the typing itself, but the rigidity that can come w/it.

Minderwiz
23-05-2003, 23:49
Firemaiden,

Sorry I posted that slightly tongue in cheek and it obviously didn't come across as such.

The natal chart shows the potential of the person - whether they achieve that potential or not is not in the chart. The chart therefore is not the full story. However it does help in understanding and can serve as the basis of a dialogue. A good consideration of the features of the chart will help in understanding a person (but I stress help)

What's more people develop, their development is set out Astrologically in transits and progressions - therefore the unfolding of the potential may to an extent be charted and predicted (again I stress 'to an extent').

However the most important thing point is that charts are complexes, reflecting (but probably simplifying) the complexity of life - to stereotype someone on one component of a highly complex structure is plain wrong.

tanis
30-05-2003, 20:27
it's pm sorry i didn't relize i had forgotten the time of day. im sorry. but thanks for all of the replys. =:?)

firemaiden
30-05-2003, 22:06
I vote that the Virgos of the world unite, and change our job description. I vote from now on all the pop astro guide-books of the world rename us sensitive, artistic, soulful people with a love of beauty.

Minderwiz
31-05-2003, 01:02
And you could rename yourselves Taureans or Pisceans :) :) :) :)

Virgos ARE sensitive - they suffer stress related illnesses and they care - remember Virgo is the sign of service to others, without Virgos the world would be a much poorer place.

Minderwiz
31-05-2003, 06:57
Tanis,

You are quite a mix. However Fire and Earth tend to dominate. Most of your planets and significant points are in eithr Cardinal or Mutable signs. So there is a strong 'Virgo' side to your character but aslo there is a strong 'Aries' side as well.

Again without a thorough analysis I don't want to go too far but you might well find that you have the drive to be practical and that you can be quite assertive when you want, especially around the home. You project yourself as a friendly, jolly, expansive person and interestingly your chart ruler Jupiter, is exaclty opposite your Sagittarius ascendant. Relationships, especially such as marriage will enable you to develop your own sense of identity.

tanis
12-06-2003, 00:38
Hi again. thank you to everyone who's answered! I haven't been on for a while so i can;t keep track of everything. I totaly agree with reportraying ourselves i think it should have been done an age ago. Bye for now =:?}

Minderwiz
12-06-2003, 00:49
Only Virgos would worry about how they are portrayed :) :)

Aries are too busy doing things to care
Taureans are too busy enjoying themselves to care
Geminis have too many other things to think about to care
Cancerians would just pull into their shells and hide
Leo's are too busy telling everyone else what they've been doing
Librans can see the case for reportryal but on the other hand........
Scorpios will just sting you for even suggesting the idea
Sagittarians know that they are good so the rest must be wrong
Capricorns know they are right and will eventually prove it
Aquarians don't really care what anyone else thinks
Pisceans know they have the love of God so why change anything

Not to be taken too seriously :)

wavebreaker
12-06-2003, 00:53
Stereotype or not, but what I've always wondered (being a "typical" virgo): what's so bad about being neat and organised and perfectionistic?? Provided it's not an obsession of course, but that goes for every character trait.

As a matter of fact, in all the jobs I've done and still do, being organised and perfectionistic is a definite plus and made me far better at those jobs than those who looked down on being organised and perfectionistic...

I think it's not so much the stereotype that needs re-evaluating, but the character traits themselves... ;)

Minderwiz
12-06-2003, 01:09
tarotlady,

Nothing at all - as I posted earlier, Virgo is the sign of service - without Virgos life would be so much the poorer.

oceanpoetry
17-06-2003, 23:14
I have a stellum of planets in Virgo and I am very thankful for my Virgo influence - it makes me practical and detail-oriented. I think that Virgo has some characteristics of opposing sign, Pisces, intutive and mystical. Evolved Virgos want to incorporate the mystical world with the mundane. As being ruled by Mercury, we want to communicate what we learn and know to others. This can be done by study of tarot, astrology, and other areas of metaphysics. Virgos are very idealistic and use practical, down-to-earth approach to achieve ideals.

Baby Owl
18-06-2003, 04:20
Originally posted by oceanpoetry
I am very thankful for my Virgo influence - it makes me practical and detail-oriented. I think that Virgo has some characteristics of opposing sign, Pisces, intutive and mystical. Evolved Virgos want to incorporate the mystical world with the mundane. As being ruled by Mercury, we want to communicate what we learn and know to others. This can be done by study of tarot, astrology, and other areas of metaphysics. Virgos are very idealistic and use practical, down-to-earth approach to achieve ideals.

I like this description, oceanpoetry. I have Virgo rising and, I have to admit, have tended to see only the negatives of that. I do think it's important to look at the axis (Virgo-Pisces). I especially like your statement that "Evolved Virgos want to incorporate the mystical world with the mundane."

Baby Owl

oceanpoetry
20-06-2003, 00:15
Baby Owl, I have Virgo Rising, too, as well as a stellum in Virgo in my 1st House, Moon, Pluto, Jupiter, and Uranus hanging out there! It is a busy place! And I have north node in Pisces making opposition to 1st house planets Jupiter, Uranus and Pluto within 5 orb. North node placement has to do with karmic lessons, so I think that is one of the reasons I am very aware of the Virgo/Pisces axis, because it is a very active area of my chart.

tanis
10-07-2003, 21:19
hi (again)
i think this is going to be my last post for a while so if i don't answer for a while icant get to a computer with the net on it. Anyway one of my best freinds is a pisces and my mum was realy surprised that we didn't fight all the time. Did you know that Christ was born in the era of pisces? Bye for now. :?)

purplefishy
11-07-2003, 06:14
I have Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn all in Virgo. Yet, I have lots of water in my chart! How does this work out?

Minderwiz
11-07-2003, 08:06
Sun, Mercury in Pisces, Moon in Cancer, Uranus in Scorpio and count Sun and Moon twice coz they're very important planets :)

You are actually 6:3:2:1 Water, Earth, Fire, Air. so half your score is Water. And if you don't count the outer three planets, you lose Air (Pluto and he's not that airey) completely and reduce Fire to 1 and Water to 5.

bluestar
12-07-2003, 05:12
I have Jupiter and Saturn in Virgo/6th house. In terms of actual stars though, Jupiter (at zero degrees) is conjunct to Regulus the heart of the Lion, and Saturn to the lions tail....
I actually chose the name bluestar to remind me of Jupiter-Regulus (although i haven't found any pictures of the star yet info I've found says its blue....)
I also wanted to mention that I like the idea of Chiron as ruller of Virgo/6th house, and enjoy this book generally : Barbara Hand Clows book "Chiron: the rainbow bridge to the outer planets" (1999,Lewellyn Publications)