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azuremariposa
22-05-2003, 07:19
so, i have a question, i'm not far enough along into my astrological studies to understand this, so any help would be most appreciated...

while discussing charts w/an astrologer i know, she mentioned that we were on similar paths, but that she was one house ahead of me...and that the biggest difference was that she had long houses and i had short ones...so i would get to where she is now, faster than she got there...(did that confuse anyone? lol)

basically, i got confuzzled at the short/long house reference...we were nearing the end of our conversation and i know i felt i didn't have time to ask (and haven't had a chance to talk w/her again since)...so, what the heck are short and long houses??? i'm assuming she's probably using the placidus house system, right?

i won't get into which system is the best, b/c i know there is a ton of disagreement on this point, however...how can one person have long houses and yet another have short ones...shouldn't the houses all even out eventually?? i mean, we are talking about 360 degrees here, right???

i'm confuzzled...help? anyone care to explain this (in layman's terms pls, since my astro knowledge is sketchy at best)??

edited to add: we were discussing Saturn and how it is entering Cancer, a Cardinal sign...both of our charts are Saturn ruled (her Cappy AC, me Aqua AC) and heavily Cardinal (6 planets in Cardinal signs for me! lol), so Saturn's entrance into a Cardinal sign would be particulary significant for both of us...just thought that might help, since i know that sounded rather confusing up there...lol :D

thanks a bunch...

many blessings,

~azure

Minderwiz
22-05-2003, 07:30
Basically your last point is correct - there are 12 houses that fit into 360 degrees.

I'm also not sure what she meant either because it seems that she was looking at something more like karma. However just to start the ball rolling:

There are many house systems as you recognise. If you use the equal house system then all houses are the same size. For any other system it is quite likely that some houses will be larger than others. However the 'larger' ones are exactly counterbalanced by 'smaller' ones. As we don't all have the same 'larger' and 'smaller' houses then it is quite possible for some one to have, say a 9th House that is 40 degrees wide and someone else to have one that is 20 degrees wide.

On a slightly different interpretation there are also signs of long ascension and signs of short ascension. In the Northern hemisphere the Summer signs (Cancer through to Sagittarius) are long ascension - it takes them longer to rise over the horizon, and the winter signs are short ascension. Now this can be significant in timing in horary, or event astrology - so if this was the subject under discussion that might be what she was talking about.

Hope someone else can perhaps through some better light on the issue.

azuremariposa
22-05-2003, 07:36
ok, so perhaps that was what she was talking about...in placidus my 1st and 7th houses are looooong, 2nd & 8th, 6th & 12th not quite as long and the others are all rather "short" looking...Saturn is entering Cancer, my 5th house, which is "short" and her chart is probably "long" in different houses than mine...Saturn had recently traversed her 5th (which if longer, would take a longer period of time)...i get it now! lol...thanks a bunch Minderwiz! :D

many blessings,

~azure

p.s. i probably edited to add the info about Saturn while you were replying...sorry 'bout that! :D

Astraea
22-05-2003, 07:50
My thoughts are identical to those of Minderwiz -- I don't know what your friend might be referring to, other than the long/short houses resulting from some forms of chart division, and/or signs of long/short ascension. Both categories represent computational factors and have no particular bearing on karma, or issues related to arriving at a particular goal or situation faster or slower than someone else. Presumably, your friend was referring to spiritual growth as a measure of attainment on your lifepaths.

The metaphysical field, particularly, is rife with formulae purported to measure growth, levels of personal evolution, and so forth. The fact is that no such simple recipes exist, and all attempts to quantify spiritual progress are (in my view) misleading sidetracks.

Astraea
22-05-2003, 07:57
Azuremariposa, I just saw your post, above. I'm glad that the mystery is solved. And let me add...even though Saturn might take a shorter or longer time to traverse a particular house, the ease or difficulty with which we learn his lessons is really up to us. :)

azuremariposa
22-05-2003, 08:12
Originally posted by Astraea
...even though Saturn might take a shorter or longer time to traverse a particular house, the ease or difficulty with which we learn his lessons is really up to us. :)
Thanks Astraea...well, the whole thing w/Saturn and me...i dunno...it is in tight conj w/Mars (1 degree apart) and both are opposing Neptune on the MC (they are nearly on the IC)...so, throw that mix into the blender and see what ya get...craziness...

on an astrology board i *was* frequenting (i won't even touch that story), i had asked about this and didn't get much of a response, so i kinda left it alone until i felt able to tackle it myself...

from my understanding, my ability to get what i want (Mars) is stifled by responsibilities (Saturn) which is exacerbated by this tendency for plans i make to go *poof* (Neptune, the great dissolver)...so, i was going round and round trying to figure out how to counteract this stuff...eh, it's a mess...but like i said in the gemini thread, i just have to have faith in the future...eventually things will work out...

and from what my astrologer friend has said, this whole Saturn in the 5th thing should cause me to hone my creativity, learn more about whichever craft it is i chose to work on, etc., etc....i have great respect for this woman, she has 30 yrs experience w/astrology, and explains it well...unfortunately, i do not!! lol...:D

again, many thanks...and many blessings,

~azure

dadsnook2000
22-05-2003, 12:48
My initial thoughts focused on the fact that various Ascending signs are "short" in terms of the time it takes for them to rise over the horizion. Likewise, most house systems (except for Equal House, primarily) can yield ASC to MC arcs that are short (close to 60 degrees) or long (close to 120 degrees). Depending upon how the arc is trisected (house systems tend to fall into three basic groupings) you can have a progressed Sun or Moon move through a house faster or slower than average, thereby "experiencing" that house's influence in your life. This is how I would tend to understand the statement you noted. Dave.

Minderwiz
22-05-2003, 21:46
Treat Saturn as a teacher - especially as you grow older. Saturn/Mars can produce very postive strengths - the ability to control and channel your energies and drives in the direction that you want to go. However this requires effort, otherwise, as you recognise, Saturn tends to stifle Mars and Mars tends to buck Saturn.

Not sure about your statements that Saturn/Mars are on the IC and then mentioning 5th House Saturn - Your Astrologer friend is dead right about Saturn in the 5th but surely yours is in the 4th?

The opposition to the MC can act as a break on your dreams and desires for career and future. However again, the issue is to ensure that you use Saturn to give yourself a secure and strong basis in your family, home and indeed unconscious self (Don't forget Saturn is also a builder of structures) and use this to identify those hopes and dreams that you can follow (and the energy of Mars is used to follow them) and cast off the day dreams, fantasies and fuzziness of the rest.

azuremariposa
22-05-2003, 23:08
Originally posted by Minderwiz
Not sure about your statements that Saturn/Mars are on the IC and then mentioning 5th House Saturn - Your Astrologer friend is dead right about Saturn in the 5th but surely yours is in the 4th?
Thank you, Minderwiz for the advice...Saturn/Mars are on the IC...Saturn will be/is transitting my 5th house...b/c my chart is Saturn ruled and so heavily Cardinal she stated it would be more significant for me when Saturn enters a Cardinal House...Saturn's coming into Cancer, my 5th house is Cancer...:) does that make sense now? :D and i suppose it might make a difference which house system is being used, since it may already be in my 5th...she said something about early June...the 13th?? not sure...
In either case, i will write down your statements on Saturn, since i seem to have issues w/this planet! lol...not bad issues...i know how to make lemonade out of lemons, so it's not all bad...:)

thanks again! much love and many blessings,

~azure

p.s. to dads...thank you as well, though i don't think i got all of that, i've made note of it as well...;)

isthmus nekoi
23-05-2003, 02:10
azuremariposa,

Any Saturn-Mars contact has the potential to bring w/it real endurance. It's a great contact b/c your Mars energy doesn't get fizzled out, or crazy w/the risk taking. In fact, b/c Mars is opposing your Neptune, it's a good thing Saturn's beside him, making sure Mars doesn't get out of control! Mars opposing Neptune can spell out action based on delusion.
I have a friend w/a Mars/Neptune opposition in 5th/11th and one of the ways this plays out is that she gets very very drunk everytime we go out for drinks. I mean, a puking at every subway stop, losing time kind of drunk. She's not an addict, but just can't control herself when it comes to "social drinking"! Another thing I observed was that she had a romantic relationship that totally tapped into the "savior complex" Neptune is famous for. She had this powerful desire to redeem her boyfriend. They were together for almost 10 years when transiting Pluto came over her Mars (breakup), retrograded over (makeup) and direct again ending the relationship for good. You can imagine if natal Saturn was involved in that configuration, what a help the old 'malific' would be....