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astroandtarot
28-06-2010, 03:42
i am still learning Western but i tap into Vedic a bit lately.
i notice that Vedic's dasha is quite accurate and wondering if any of you have notice which is better ? i know more and more are tapping into Vedic but boy, Vedic is so multi layered with their charts.

NamasteIndia
28-06-2010, 04:01
Astrology is 5000 year old subject.
It started with Parashara Rishi writing down Vedic astrology and over the years there were many versions of astrology.
Indian astrology considers the moon sign most important but western astrology gives priority to sun sign.
Then there is bhrigu astrology, KP astrology so on and forth.
Vedic does not consider pluto, neptune and uranus whereas western astrology includes them and finds them important.
here in india i have seen people practising samudrik shastra which is combination of palmistry, astrology and face reading its very interesting and accurate...

Minderwiz
28-06-2010, 04:42
I'm not sure mixing the two branches of Astrology is ultimately likely to succeed. Both are wonderful and valid traditions, but in many ways as different as chalk and cheese. Moreover, there's no single approach to either, there are huge differences in Western Astrology, in terms of approach and method. Not all Western Astrologers use the outer planets, or even consider the Sun as the most important planet, traditionally the Moon is the most important one, but there is not the same detailed approach that you will find in Vedic traditions.

You might try looking at medieval approaches, which is Western, without the outers, and which made much use of firdaria, which give planetary periods used in delineating the major periods of life. Alternatively explore the vedic tradition and see if that would better fit your approach.

As someone who has rejected much of modern Western Astrology, one possibility open to me was to swap to a vedic approach - in the end I went for an approach that uses hellenistic/medieval/seventeenth century ingredients (but mainly the latter).

Explore and persevere.

ATrickyBusiness
29-06-2010, 18:32
Much of Jyotish was influenced by Hellenistic Astrology (largely due to a mix of Alexander of Macedon's invasions, and thousands of years of contact between India and the Greek world), so Western and Indian astrology are not too different from eachother, despite the differences of Zodia.

I disagree with the assertions that Jyotish practitioners never use Outer Planets or asteroids, there are those who do, they're just currently in the minority at the moment.

Both versions of the Zodia are correct, but the meanings, such as Scorpio or Aries, are pretty different from eachother. Honest books will not make Sidereal Libra sound like a clone of the Tropical, and vice versa.

Western does have Lunar Mansions and use of North Nodes, they're just not used as heavily.

Personally I'm working on learning both Traditional Western and Jyotish side by side to supplement what I'm working on with Modern, and mostly with the Tropical Zodiac. I don't think it's impossible to mix the methods, and there is a lot about the houses, timelords, Nodes, and planetary combinations that are very useful to learn even if you aren't using Sidereal.

Minderwiz
29-06-2010, 19:43
As I mentioned in my previous post, neither approach is monolithic, so attempts to compare, or even. blend run into problems of setting baselines at the outset.

I've said a lot about Traditional approaches in the traditional thread. And much on modern sign meanings all over the place LOL. Modern Western sign meanings are about 100 years old. Look back into the tradition and you'll find very different ways of using the signs. Western Astrology also mainly used the sidereal zodiac, or more correctly did not differentiate between the two, till at least the medieval period, when the influence of Arab contacts added extra weight to the ptolemaic view.

I said that the two approaches were chalk and cheese, actually much the same could be said of Modern v Traditional Western approaches.

Exploring the traditional approach and learning and exploring vedic approaches can help clarify your knowledge and ideas but mix and match can be a bad idea, when component parts are tied to a very well defined and crafted systematic approach.

ATrickyBusiness
29-06-2010, 20:16
As I mentioned in my previous post, neither approach is monolithic, so attempts to compare, or even. blend run into problems of setting baselines at the outset.

I've said a lot about Traditional approaches in the traditional thread. And much on modern sign meanings all over the place LOL. Modern Western sign meanings are about 100 years old. Look back into the tradition and you'll find very different ways of using the signs. Western Astrology also mainly used the sidereal zodiac, or more correctly did not differentiate between the two, till at least the medieval period, when the influence of Arab contacts added extra weight to the ptolemaic view.

I said that the two approaches were chalk and cheese, actually much the same could be said of Modern v Traditional Western approaches.

Exploring the traditional approach and learning and exploring vedic approaches can help clarify your knowledge and ideas but mix and match can be a bad idea, when component parts are tied to a very well defined and crafted systematic approach.


I won't disagree that Modern Western Definitions Differ, but the same can be said about anythings else like house and aspect meanings. Still though, Sidereal vs Tropical differences exist, as even fixed stars wander, albeit very slowly. Why yes, I've read Lily and a few others.

I'm saying this as someone who has looked at both of my charts in Sidereal and Tropical, but without imposing the Tropical meanings on the other, and vice versa. They're technically both right, but only within the context of cultural meanings. I am Scorpio rising in Sidereal, but it's not like the Scorpio rising of Tropical, Medieval or Modern, and if anything I'd argue, that at least within degree limitations, that Scorpio rising in Sid isn't entirely unlike Sagittarius rising in Tropical, but that's what you get with degree differences over time.

While I agree that mindless mixing and matching is a bad idea, but as long as you make clear distinctions about methods and methodology and are careful, there shouldn't be that big of a problem.

Amatafrances
07-07-2010, 20:44
I study vedic astrology in connection with crystal healing.
I newer was involved in these arguments before, but when I started to know indian astrology, because I wanted to deepen my knowledge of the ancient gems lore, I was surprised and astonished because of the incredible precision of the dashas, or periods.
I think that vedic astrology is a great and wonderful way for personal and spiritual evolution.
For example, the position of Rahu and Ketu (Caput and Cauda Draconis) is very important for the karmic purpose of every soul, and to know this is useful, because we can understand the active role in building our destiny that is a karmic duty in the vedic cosmic vision.
Now I can accept the real meaning of many painful situations in my past life, and I'm much more calm and hopeful for my future.
Ciao!
Amatafrances

NamasteIndia
07-07-2010, 21:27
I study vedic astrology in connection with crystal healing.
I newer was involved in these arguments before, but when I started to know indian astrology, because I wanted to deepen my knowledge of the ancient gems lore, I was surprised and astonished because of the incredible precision of the dashas, or periods.
I think that vedic astrology is a great and wonderful way for personal and spiritual evolution.
For example, the position of Rahu and Ketu (Caput and Cauda Draconis) is very important for the karmic purpose of every soul, and to know this is useful, because we can understand the active role in building our destiny that is a karmic duty in the vedic cosmic vision.
Now I can accept the real meaning of many painful situations in my past life, and I'm much more calm and hopeful for my future.
Ciao!
Amatafrances

yes i agree too.
Even in my chart Moon is with Ketu indicating a distance from mother and Rahu in 10th house of career with pluto indicating a roller coaster ride. After i learned astrology and understood this aspects i was quite astonished because this is very precise.
It teaches us why things are happening with us now and what is the relation with past life.

Minderwiz
07-07-2010, 22:45
I am Scorpio rising in Sidereal, but it's not like the Scorpio rising of Tropical, Medieval or Modern, and if anything I'd argue, that at least within degree limitations, that Scorpio rising in Sid isn't entirely unlike Sagittarius rising in Tropical, but that's what you get with degree differences over time.


I fully agree that both approaches are technically correct Medieval and Seventeenth Century Astrologers, would not attribute a meaning to Scorpio rising (or any other sign) in the way that modern Astrologers do. They would give weight to Mars as ruler (a Hot and Dry planet), Mars as almuten (More Hot and Dry) and Scorpio itself (A Cold and Moist sign) as important but not exclusive contributors to Temperament. Mars as Lord 1 would play a great role in predictions. Sagittarius rising would produce Jupiter as ruler (Hot and Moist) and Sagittarius itself (Hot and Dry) - so both signs would contribute Heat, some Moisture and some Dryness - your point being well supported by that way of looking at contribution of the rising sign to Temperament.

Clearly this approach doesn't distinguish between the use of sidereal or tropical zodiacs. So I'd be very interested in how you arrived at your conclusion - from what source did you obtain your sideral meanings?

Amatafrances,

I'm not well versed in Vedic approaches, but from what I have read I have to agree with your views about the precision of the approach. I found a similar precision in traditional Western approaches but that precision has been severely threatened in the twentieth century with the shift from a predictive (and hence divinatory) approach to one based largely on psychology and character delineation.

I do have to add though, that that shift is under increasing challenge both from those who practice Modern Astrology and those who practice a more traditional approach.

Amatafrances
07-07-2010, 23:01
Dear Namaste,
did You try to use gems to improve your astrological situation?
Many people living in India do this.
But correct gem prescriptions are very important, and I think that only very few astrologists can do this properly.
In my opinion gems don't have a simple "magical" effect, but they can change deply the health of our body, soul and mind, helping us really to built a better life.
Gems are helping me a lot, but I had to consider my rashi and navamsha for a very long time (and I made many mistakes!) before to reach this goal.
Ciao!
Amatafrances

Amatafrances
08-07-2010, 01:04
The two different approaches, sidereal and tropical, very often give the same results.
For example, in western astrology I'm Gemini Sun and Gemini Ascendant; in vedic astrology I'm Taurus Sun and Ascendant, with Moon in Aries.
But, in vedic, Gemini are rulers of my II house, and my vedic Moon have Ashwini as Nakshatra, or ruling star, and the symbols of Ashwini are the Kumara, or Twins = Gemini.
The difference in my opinion is that vedic astrology is deeper in "focalizing" the complexity of the human soul, because I feel a lot a Gemini, but a Taurus as well; my Gemini traits are more specifically described in vedic astrology, because I'm not "totally" Gemini, but only for the meanings of the II house, and for the meanings of Ashwini, and I'm Taurus for other important and basic characteristic.
Ciao
Amatafrances

NamasteIndia
08-07-2010, 03:13
Dear Namaste,
did You try to use gems to improve your astrological situation?
Many people living in India do this.
But correct gem prescriptions are very important, and I think that only very few astrologists can do this properly.
In my opinion gems don't have a simple "magical" effect, but they can change deply the health of our body, soul and mind, helping us really to built a better life.
Gems are helping me a lot, but I had to consider my rashi and navamsha for a very long time (and I made many mistakes!) before to reach this goal.
Ciao!
Amatafrances
many astrologers that i met where having half knowledge they suggested gems as per current dasha. My brother used to wear Gomed (Rahu's stone)during Rahu dasha just because astrologer suggested it.
Usually Malefic Planets stones are not worn. And just based on dasha wearing a stone does not make sense.

I prefer using mantras for specific planetary appeasement. Most of the astrologers here suggest mantras for eg. Hanuman Chalisa for Mars, Saraswati Stotra for Rahu etc etc.

Charity related to particular planet is also done for eg. Black cloth, feeding black dog for appeasing Saturn is common here. Offering Red flowers, Donating Red pulses for Mars etc etc.

I have found considerable amount of difference in my life after astrology became part of it.

Namaste:party:

Amatafrances
08-07-2010, 23:01
I agree with you, prescribing gemstones only for the current dasha is not a good idea; things in this matter are much more complicate than this.
But, it is important to understand that the astrological use of gems is fruitful only if it is based on a personal, long and serious spiritual research, not on superstition.
The true purpose in the choice of the right gems in astrology is a self awareness task.
It is not possible to change karma simply wearing a jewel!
Gems are a valid help if used with the consciousness that we all need to work a lot in order to develop our full potential.
Chanting mantras is the best remedy, but it is too difficult for most western people… charity too is good, because love is one of the most powerful and international medicines in the world.
Amatafrances