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M-Press
12-07-2010, 17:31
Hi,
It has been a looooong time since I have been in this forum, but I must say for good reasons. My baby boy will soon be one year old and keeps me very busy... i'm looking forward to come back to "real life" but i feel that this will take some more time...

BUT, I have been thinking a lot of Gilad Shalit lately, the young Israeli soldier that is held in captivity by the Hamas in the Gaza Strip. I found his full birth info, and I was curious to take a look at his chart.
What does captivity looks like in a chart? Will he ever be released? Was it just his "bad luck" or a hard karmic lesson? Everybody he knows who he is yet he is hidden - how does that show?

if anyone would be interested to probe into this, I would be more that delighted to participate. Maybe this needs a horary as well?

Gilad Shalit birth info: Aug 28th, 1986, 3:50 am, Naharia, Israel.

He was captured on June 25th, 2006, early in the morning

for more info on him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilad_Shalit

dadsnook2000
13-07-2010, 10:46
Gilad Shalit, born Aug. 28, 1986 at 3:56 AM EED, Nahariyya, Israel, 035e05, 33n00

Gilad's MC is 26:59 Aries, his Ascendant is 04:31 Leo, Sun is at 4:26 Virgo in the 2nd house, Moon is at 11:50 Gemini in the 11th house.

Sun squares a wide opposition of Moon to Saturn (5th house, 3:25 Sag), suggesting (by itself) that is selfhood or identity has to deal with emotional separations, that the lessons learned in early family life will be both a source of comfort as well as a contest of heritage and feeling versus discipline and self reliance --- all of this testing his will and capability to express himself.

His nodal axis is on the chart's vertical axis, N.Node (23:10 Aries) conjunct the MC and trine Mercury (25:51 Leo) can point to one talks about his status and associates or whose social status (MC) is talked about (Mercury) by others (Node). All the possible symbolism fits his captivity situation even though we are discussing his natal chart here, a chart of "potential."

Natal Venus (20:29 Libra) is part of the Moon's nodal axis (at S. Node) pointing to a reliance on social skills to get along in the world.

I'll post the other astrological body positions so that others can comment on this natal chart. Later, in another post, I'll look at his capture date and then comment on that event.

Mars @ 13:05 Capricorn
Jupiter @ 19:40 Pisces
Uranus @ 18:21 Sag
Neptune @ 3:07 Capricorn
Pluto @ 5:04 Scorpio
Chiron @ 20:46 Gemini
Ceres @ 10:45 Libra
Juno @ 3:29 Sag
Pallas @ 17:52 Virgo
Vesta @ 16:59 Aries

There are some interesting asteroid-planet connections if anyone wants to comment on them. Dave

willowfox
13-07-2010, 15:13
I threw up a quick horary chart,

Asc = 14* 37',, so his Asc would be 14* Aries, and his Mars in currently in the 12th house of captivity at 19* 58" Virgo.

No movement is shown but he appears to be okay. And Moon is in Leo with no major aspects to anything.

The guy is stuck.

M-Press
13-07-2010, 19:28
Very interesting points and comments. Thank you both.
I'm not as advanced and did not see any of this in his chart. I was hoping that the whole thing was due to some Saturn return, but he has been in captivity for longer now...
There was a news post lately that said that the Hamas informed that Gilad Shalit is watching the FIFA world cup via a satellite in his captivity. i don't think this was something they should say if it wasn't true... (although who knows...). but if this is true, then it's possible to assume that he is indeed ok - in good condition, but indeed stuck.

Astrologically speaking, i wonder if similar aspects can have a different translation, other than captivity. Could he have had a different experience that could manifest what he is going through, without being so extreme?

what has to happen planets wise for him to be free? will he ever be free?

willowfox
13-07-2010, 21:51
His planet, Mars, has to exit the the 12th house and that's going to take time.

The 12th house indicates place of confinement, jails, hospitals and such like.

Minderwiz
14-07-2010, 00:06
As Dave says the natal chart shows only the potential of the life, not the events. So what 'potentials' can we see for his captivity. His MC is in Aries, appropriate for a soldier (even if not a career one). Mars is on the cusp of the sixth - a position of debility and suggests possible ill health as a result of his career. Mars' ruler is Saturn, which is also Lord 8 as well as Lord 6 (and Lord 7) so Saturn is not only an infortune but an accidental Malefic in his chart. Saturn afflicts his Ascendant from the cusp of the fifth in Sagittarius (affliction is from malefic planets, and not related to the aspect). Saturn's ruler, Jupiter is in the eighth, though in Pisces. Saturn's only dignity is a mutual reception with the South Node, itself a natural infortune and in his chart conjunct his Part of Fortune on the cusp of the fourth.

It's also worth pointing out that as Lord 7 Saturn signifies not only his partners but also his open enemies. In the context of this thread, it's the seventh as the House of Open Enemies, that is important, but we're looking at things with some hindsight. Saturn as Lord 6 and Lord 8 is more obviously malefic.

The other accidental malefic in a chart is Lord 12 and it is the twelfth House that relates to captivity. Lord 12 is the Moon, itself peregrine and placed on the eleventh cusp. Although most modern Astrologers use the eleventh solely for friendship, it is also the house of the King's servants and in war (which arguably this was) the House of the Kings's soldiery. So captivity from his role as a soldier is quite possible and his health may be endangered from it. However, I stress 'may' and 'might' - we are in the realm of potential.

If we look at his primary directions for 2006 around May to July, we can see an Opposition of Saturn to his Part of fortune in Mid May (so a possible threat from Lord 6/8). On 5th June there is a weak aspect from the Moon (Lord 12) to his MC (role in life) and in late July another aspect from Saturn to Mars (his MC ruler). Taken together, that suggests a risky period for him in the conduct of his 'work'.

The next issue is of course, his possible liberation. A horary is one possible way, through a question such as 'Will Gilad Shalit be freed in the next 6 months?' We could also sort through return charts or transits, and other derived charts. That would clearly take a long time but a shorter but less precise method might be to look for beneficial primary directions in the coming period. This is a much more difficult process because one planet can signify a whole range of things, so wheeas in hindsight we can see how the symbolism fits, it's nowhere near as obvious for the future.

So Possible freedom might come:

In a few days, when the Moon sextiles Jupiter, a natural benefic and Lord 9 of long voyages,

In October of this year when the terms of Jupiter in Gemini come to the Part of Fortune - Gemini is the sign on the eleventh cusp so he might be a soldier restored to his health and fortune.
In early January of next year when Mercury ruler of the eleventh conjoins his Ascendant.

Of course there is no way of knowing now whether any or all of these significations are relevant to his captivity.

dadsnook2000
14-07-2010, 06:39
First of all, these charts and their deliniation is somewhat complex while also quite simple. It is likely that I'll explore several charts for this soldier of Israel on my blog site in the coming days. For now, I offer these brief comments.

I have cast a precession-corrected Solar Return for 2005, prior to Gilad's capture. The S/R MC is at 7 Pisces, the S/R Asc. is at 25 Gemini.

The most interesting chart factor is transiting Uranus (8 Pisces) conjunct the S/R MC and natal Uranus (18 Sag) conjunct the Descendant and transiting Pluto (21 Sag). In effect, this gives us THREE Uranus' to consider.

** Natal Uranus in the 5th house of the natal chart; His personality thrives on being unique, giving him a sense of freedom, optimism and casualness with others.

** Natal Uranus in the 6th house of the S/R chart, close to the Desc. angle; How he works and interacts with others tends to break the mold as he takes chances based on hunches.

** Transiting Uranus at the MC of the S/R chart, opposing natal Sun, square to natal Saturn: He acts along independent lines, flaunts his uniqueness, takes chances (Uranus in the natal 5th house attribute). The opposition to the Sun can be related to any/all of several factors; setting himself apart from authority or army leadership, seeking to impress others through his highly unique attitudes, being attracted to unusual situations relating to his work.

Further, Saturn comes into play here.

** The square to natal Saturn by transiting Uranus points to a breaking of the rules, trying to establish a new framework relative to his (army) job.

** Transiting Saturn conjuncts natal Ascendant in the S/R 2nd/3rd house cusp area. Cadent chart areas, according to British astrologer Charles Carter, relates to thinking and intellectual processes. Does this mean he has plans or a strategy for expressing himself (Sun) in terms of his own personal values and desires (Sun in natal 2nd house).

The plot gets thicker! We are playing a form of astrological hop-scotch here, jumping from one factor to a related factor. S/R natal Uranus is being conjuncted by transiting Pluto. Transiting Saturn conjuncting natal Asc. is square natal Pluto. This double-Pluto link involves both Saturn and Uranus (noted above in some detail) and the natal Asc., S/R MC, S/R Asc., S/R Desc. and S/R IC. DIDN'T I MENTION THAT THE S/R SUN-SUN WAS AT THE S/R IC ANGLE? Lets look at some of this stuff.

** S/R positioned natal Uranus conjuncted by transiting Pluto; Intense and overwhelming influence counters Gilad's sense of uniqueness and individuality.

** Transiting Saturn at natal Asc.; Restrictions and rules of engagement will impact his actions, or his actions will meet resistance. He feels that he can overcome challenges, that he is in the power-seat.

** Sun-Sun at S/R IC angle; ones identity and life situation is up for total change and re-orientation.

Finally, I note that both transiting and natal Moon are in the 12 house, the transiting Moon close to contacting the Asc. from 19 Gemini. Since natal Moon was in the natal 11th house, its position in the S/R 12th house points to his "friends" (11th house) hidden values (12th house, second house of the 11th house) structuring a form of deception here. We don't have to depend upon Neptune only to provide a signature of deception.

For me, this chart's heavy angularity and presence of so many interlocking heavy planet combinations just screams out --- "A unique view of himself and how he can relate to the world places himself outside of conventional patterns and in opposition to his leaders and the nature of his hostile environment." He acted stupidly, carelessly, was led on by opportunities that only he saw and was taken advantage of quickly, brutally, completely."

We can only hope that his natural outgoing nature, penetrating intellect (which badly needs to be channeled and guided), and socialness will make him more favored in some way to his captors. Given the nature of his chart, I wouldn't be surprised if he became converted to his captor's cause to some degree.

In another posting I will look at a chart for the date of his capture. I WOULD ALSO POINT OUT THAT THE LIST SHOULD COMPARE THIS "MODERN" CHART ANALYSIS AND VIEW WITH MINDERWIZ'S CLASSICAL CHART VIEWS. It seems that it is not the "system" that works but the individual astrologer that "works" or tunes in to the essence of people and events. This should not be strange to Tarot Readers who also use this "tuning in" function. Dave

willowfox
14-07-2010, 13:46
If he's lucky then he could be released the beginning of next year. I see no health problems as his Mars looks pretty robust and can take on this challenge and win, afterall, he's a soldier.

Sophie
14-07-2010, 20:18
In another posting I will look at a chart for the date of his capture. I WOULD ALSO POINT OUT THAT THE LIST SHOULD COMPARE THIS "MODERN" CHART ANALYSIS AND VIEW WITH MINDERWIZ'S CLASSICAL CHART VIEWS. It seems that it is not the "system" that works but the individual astrologer that "works" or tunes in to the essence of people and events. This should not be strange to Tarot Readers who also use this "tuning in" function. Dave
Personally I'm finding the comparisons very fruitful and a great teaching tool.

Minderwiz
15-07-2010, 05:24
In another posting I will look at a chart for the date of his capture. I WOULD ALSO POINT OUT THAT THE LIST SHOULD COMPARE THIS "MODERN" CHART ANALYSIS AND VIEW WITH MINDERWIZ'S CLASSICAL CHART VIEWS. It seems that it is not the "system" that works but the individual astrologer that "works" or tunes in to the essence of people and events. This should not be strange to Tarot Readers who also use this "tuning in" function. Dave

Just to mildly disagree with Dave LOL

You should also note some (not immediately obvious) similarities. I love reading Dave's posts because he blends a strong methodology and structure with insight. There is nothing 'whimsical' about his Astrology it's well thought out and directed. If I were following a modern approach, Dave would be one of my role models (as Stephen Arroyo used to be and who still influences the way I think about Astrology).

In that sense we both see Astrology as being a mixture of Saturn and Mercury with some illuminated by the Moon. The methods may be different but the need for structure and a solid knowledge base is still there. If you like we both insist that Astrology has a logic but also a soul.

We also both passionately believe that Astrological skills can be taught, that the Astrologer is central to the process and we both believe that Astrology is a good servant but a bad master - neither of us allows our lives to be run by it.

We may not always agree but oddly we often come to similar conclusions. from different directions. The message is that Astrology does work and in Lilly's phrase allows us 'to talk to the angels'

Incidentally it raises an issue I've been thinking about recently. Why does Astrology work? And it might be a good time to start a thread on that theme.

ravenest
15-07-2010, 09:30
Incidentally it raises an issue I've been thinking about recently. Why does Astrology work? And it might be a good time to start a thread on that theme.

Yes please.

M-Press
27-07-2010, 15:29
Thank you for your intriguing analysis and comments. Fruitful teachings indeed.
I had to re-read a few times... This chart puzzles me even more regarding the meaning of "potential".

Regarding his possible release I'm wondering if it's possible to predict the potential of freedom resulting from political negotiations, or let's say a secret mission which will get him out of there, or some unexpected happening, such as a earthquake (ala Tower style) that would allow his movement and eventually freedom.
Should I assume that his death is less likely to happen now? that since some of his planets are well placed, he is protected?

I'm very eager to see the outcome and I wish this was just an exercise.
I will report here any known events/developments that will take place. In Israel this soldier is of national interest - many blame the government of not doing enough to free him, of not taking responsibility for the soldiers that are enlisted by law and not by will (like in the US). Then, of course, negotiations with the Hamas can be brutally "expensive" (not money wise, but the security and life of many others is at stake).

dadsnook2000
27-07-2010, 20:55
If it was just a question of looking at charts derived from the natal chart, then it might be possible to pinpoint one or several dates when freedom would be given to him. Unfortunately, Gilad is only one chart in the midst of hundreds or even thousands of other charts (people) that are part of the political landscape of the area. In other words, complexity rules.

As far as "potential" goes --- Our birth chart represents a complexity of time-related patterns that we seem to use as a framework for development. Each symbol can, and will, express itself in many ways when its "timing" is appropriate. Sometimes Mercury will represent talking, other times contracts or writing, other times travel, while even learning (through observation) and reorganizing one's perceptions and categorization of thoughts would be seen as Mercury expressions. We have to gather experience (another word for symbol expression) a piece at a time --- we can't develop our potential all at once.

For me, Gilad's charts suggested that he had developed his own world view which seemed to have been in contrast to what was expected of him in his role as a soldier. His choices, his actions have led him on his own path. That path has been co-opted by the political opposition and he has become a pawn in a far bigger game. It is my sense that when we next directly hear of him or from him that he will play a role in that political game that suits his captor's wishes, a role that me be contrary to what he was expressing and living prior to his capture.

To summarize, his "potential" may be beyond what we can see in his chart at this time. His symbols may have to express themselves in entirely new ways that fit with new circumstances. What then, can we use as a basis for reliable prediction? Is his strength of character and ability to steer his choice of life expression strong enough to shape his role in spite of the role his captors want for him? Dave

Minderwiz
27-07-2010, 23:12
Dave gives a very good explanation of the difficulty of being precise from charts related to one person when there are many other people involved. All that can be done is to outline possible trends in that one life and highlight possible points of danger and possible points of joy.

The potential of a birth chart is because, as Lilly says, the stars do not compel - there is always room for the exercise of choice, even though it might be constrained by external factors. Two other factors need to be considered. Firstly as Dave says a planet can express in different ways at different times. Indeed it can express in different ways at the same time. A planet can express either according to its inhereht nature - Mars as a symbol of accidents or fevers for example. It can also express according to its accidental nature - Mars as ruler of the tenth may symbolise changes in career and status.

Secondly the natal chart does not contain an explicit calendar of future events. To predict those we need a series of derived chats and calculations. How accurate those are can often depend on the accuracy of the original natal chart. There's an old computer programmers saying - Garbage In, Garbage Out. On top of that all prediction methods have some level of error and there is a further issue of 'user error' - the Astrologer is human and occasionally makes mistakes, however it is the human ability to contact the 'divine' that makes Astrology work as well as it does.

There are a number of techniques for identifying the likely time of death. I tried one on myself and it came up with my birth time - I was born a 'blue' baby and survived because of the expertise of the midwife. So these techniques show at best points of danger but not the inevitable. I have thought of trying one or two out on this case but I would be loathe to publish the results because there is a major risk that I'll make a mistake with the method, being unfamiliar with it and of course that the method(s) are themselves faulty.

M-Press
28-07-2010, 02:54
I agree- Dave described the picture perfectly. Thank you. Very interesting points and way of seeing things, with a lot of clarity. In a way there is even some hope, in not being able to "crack" the small piece in the puzzle. Not just for this specific issue, but also in general.

Minderwiz- thanks for sharing the story about your own time of birth/death (so glad you went past that!). That adds a lot to the saying "everything is written but there is still choice".

I guess that with Gilad the best course of action is to sit and wait to see what happens. I hope for him that we'll have developments soon. It's not enough to come out alive... but also sane and not too damaged.

Thank you all who participated in this thread so far. I find it not only enlightening, but also healing...

M-Press
18-10-2011, 21:53
Hello all!

Although life still keeps me within domestic waters, I had to post today the outcome of this story. Gilad Shalit was freed this morning!

You can read all about it in the below CNN link:
Hamas frees Israel's Gilad Shalit in prisoner swap
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/18/world/meast/israel-prisoner-swap/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

I'm too excited to say much more...I myself plan to look at his chart soon...
:)