View Full Version : Phantasmagoric Theater?
Sobeknofret
25-05-2003, 18:16
Anybody else have this deck? Opinions, please? I can't seem to find any reviews of this deck anywhere. I've never seen or heard of this deck before today, but it looked so insane and wild and wonderful that I bought it on a an impulse. The art is pretty wild-- reminds me strongly of Nightmare Before Christmas, which is a favorite movie of mine. But it's BIG! -- only a fraction smaller than the large Thoth deck. Reading through the LBW, it seems as though the characters on the cards tell a story, and although the actual "meanings" section is slim, the stories themselved give a great deal of insight into the cards. Oooooh, these cards actually make me really happy, lol!
--Sobe
Yes, I know it and like it, although I never use it.
It's Maan's favourite deck, maybe you could ask her about it?
I think I have seen a couple of reviews, I'll go see if I can find them.
Here's one review:
http://www.tarotpassages.com/phantas.htm
and another:
http://www.tarotpassages.com/phantasmagoricgav.htm
both from Tarotpassages.
I love looking at this deck, it reminds me of the Nightmare Before Christmas, as well.
I have tried reading with it (I keep trying, because Maan keeps encouraging me ;) ), but I just don't understand what it's telling me.
How wonderful that they make you so happy - they always make me smile, too! Just the right mixture of cute and (slightly) creepy.
Would you let me know how it works for you in readings?
Edited to say: found another review
http://www.wicce.com/phantasmagoric.html
Most people seem to like it.
A pretty unusual deck to just run into, though! You must have been to a shop with an interesting tarot collection. ;)
Khatruman
25-05-2003, 18:55
I guess this is one of those "I just don't get it" decks. I love the name of the deck, and the idea of phantasmagoria, but this deck leaves me flat. I love Nightmare before Christmas, but I don't see it here.. I just see Charlie Brownish, big headed cutesy art that doesn't offer any chills at all. Same goes for the Halloween tarot.
To me, good nightmarish images come from the Bosch tarot.
Ahh, well, some tastes just don't translate..*L*
Now isn't this interesting? I don't get any feeling of cool creepiness from this deck, although 'cute' is definitely a word I would use. I do love it, though!
I like it because there's a theater theme on a lot of cards, as though the characters pictured are performers themselves who are putting on a show for you. Reminds me of high school drama club, so for me it seems kind of nostalgic.
I guess I'm really anthropomorphizing the characters, because to me they just seem so...earnest. And sweet.
Or maybe I'm just weird! :rolleyes: Maybe Maan understands what I'm talking about! :D
Peace,
Melvis
:TSTRE
Faerie Lin
25-05-2003, 22:37
This is one of my fav decks! I adore the characters and suit themes. The characters surely are cute, but some of them also have that "I'm cute but I'm also psycho, so watch out." feel to them. Latex and bondage and gas masks on cartoon characters, rag doll puppets, stitched up mouths and button eyes, I love it!
The 2 of Cups card is so dang.... cute.
I know Maan, Rostie and Molly have this deck... haven't seen Molly in a while though.
I love this deck, but I also understand why some people might not -- the characters are drawn in an extreme style that doesn't appeal to everyone. I love the artwork and colors and mood of the deck, which can seem light and zany, but together speak to the depths of human nature -- a great combination, IMO.
OO a thread about my favo deck!!!
Its is such a great deck..to some a little creapish but its really a nice and straight deck. It tells you how it is!
The LWB is very good. In contains stories about al the cards. Almost each individual has its own name. This makes it easier to communicate with this deck.
The cards are a little big but you will get use to that.
The first look at this deck it could seem as a joke but you can really get serious readings with it. And the artist who created it obviously knew the tarot before he started this project and he has put in a lot of new insights in the cards.
O and be sure to check out the four of cups in the LWB. Its a real AHA card...for me anyway.I just love Polly...she thought me alot about myself.
I hope you will get to love it asmuch as i do
But if the cards are already making you happy you will surely get on with them!
Love
Maan
PS Hedera you SHOULD read with it..but you keep forgetting to read the LWB...tsssk , i promiss if you read that it will work for you too ;)
I love this deck too... It is very cute, but not in a sweetness-and-light way which some people have a problem with. *I hear Divinerguy coughing 'Robin Wood'* ;)
I do think it has that Nightmare Before Christmas thing going on too, but in places some of the pictures remind me of some rather dodgy sex acts...
At first, I thought the deck was shallow, but when I looked at it a bit more, noticed more meaning in it.
An interesting deck for a collection no matter what! :D
Kiama
Sobeknofret
26-05-2003, 12:28
Wow, almost every one seems to be enthusiastic about this deck! I really love it better the more that I work with it. It is cute in a psycho sort of way, but not at all as light and fluffy as I feared it to be (gods preserve me from the Robin Wood school of sugary art), and I agree with Kiama that some of the cards look like set ups for kinky sex. Looooove that Empress card! I usually judge my decks by the Empress card, as it's my soul and personality card, and I must say THAT'S the kind of Empress I wanna be! Now if I can just find the spiky boots and the whip...
And Maan, I am Polly in the Four of Cups! Down to the blond hair and the aimless sketching (except I usually write)! Wow, what a powerful and pointed card that one is for me also. Love that card too.
I have yet to try and read with it, but I'll go for it sometime this week, after I've read the LWB more thoroughly. This deck really deserves it's own full sized book.
Thanks so much to all of you for the input!
--Sobe
Originally posted by Sobeknofret
And Maan, I am Polly in the Four of Cups! Down to the blond hair and the aimless sketching (except I usually write)! Wow, what a powerful and pointed card that one is for me also. Love that card too.
OOO nice to meet you Polly....i feel like Polly too most of the times..and i DO sketch al the time.
Originally posted by Sobeknofret
This deck really deserves it's own full sized book.
--Sobe
I think so too. I wish the artist or us games would realize that!
Good luck with getting to know this deck!
Love
Maan
here some earlier threads about the deck from aeclectic, maybe this can boost your enthousiasme still higher ;)
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?threadid=13366&highlight=phantasmagoric+theater
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?threadid=9539&highlight=phantasmagoric+theater
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?threadid=8499&highlight=phantasmagoric+theater
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?threadid=4904&highlight=phantasmagoric+theater
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?threadid=2879&highlight=phantasmagoric+theater
btw: this is one of my most favorite decks!!! i don't use it very much lately (*shame on me*) but i still LOVE it!!! it's so special, i just love the art, very well done and an wonderfull lwb...it brought me closer to tarot...
with love,
sara.
Little Baron
22-07-2003, 11:12
The enthusiasm here has got me all excited and I have pulled the deck out to re-establish a connection. And I have.
It's weird how we all love it but not all of us read with it. I think that a more in depth book would be good as well.
I am going to try and read with this one again. Does any body use this deck and rely completely on intuition?
I love that they all have their own names, like Tom Tom, for example - what a lovely little mischievous face.
Look forward to hearing more and unravelling more about this deck.
Yaboot
I'm glad you did Yaboot, this deck is far to nice to lay around gathering dust.
And as an answer to your question....i now use it almost soley on intuitian...but i think thats cause i almost know the LWB by heart ;)
I think you really need the LWB with this deck. Unlike most this deck's LWB is a little jewel.
Love
Maan
Little Baron
22-07-2003, 13:43
Hi Maan
Thanks for the reply.
*Thought I would delve into this a bit deeper. From what I read on these threads, you are the authority on the Phantasmagoric!*
Take Tom Tom for example (he is my favourite, I think). I have read all about him in the LWB. Maybe this a bit of a silly question from a 'reader' but what plays on your intuition with this card generally, disregarding spread positions etc?
I am obviously drawn to the spikes and their prickly danger. There are the pins in the table top, the toys, the spade, the crown and the sword.
Are the toys stolen. A pin is casually sticking from the bear - did Tom Tom really need or want this or did he take it because he knew he was stronger and could? Could the train signify movement as boats do in other decks. The pink clothing is what pulls me into this image, as well as the contrasting eyes. What kind of significance do those colours have? Also, his arms are very thin. With the sword on his top, do you think that maybe this card is more to do with a 'mental' manipulation, rather than a physical?
I hope you don't mind me asking so many questions. Because there is so little written about this deck, I am just interested to know how someone who spends a lot of time with it, reads it. Any pointers???
Thanks Maan
Best wishes
Yaboot
*This deck is SOOO not like any other*
Little Baron
22-07-2003, 13:59
Apologies for starting a new thread. I had replied to another, I thought, but must have clicked the wrong button.
Yaboot
O i don't mind at all, but i hardly feel an authority..i'm just dabbeling around like everyone else
What speaks to me the most in Tom tom are the sweet expression on his face in comperison to the spikes on his elbow's. To me that speaks not only of brute force...because he's phisically stronger but also of his manipulating skill's
The fact that he has his hands covering his head like he know's he is doing things wrong and expecting punnishment.
he can seperate right form wrong, good from evil.
The facts that he still steals toys might suggest..to mean that is...in certain readings that although he is behaving pretty badly he is a child and his actions are not mean in the core.
well that's just some rambelings form me about Tom tom.
I haven't gotten him in quite a while....a few month's ago i got him almost weakly....i must have learned something cause he went away ;)
Love
Maan
Little Baron
22-07-2003, 14:03
Hi Maan
I had thought that I had replied to you in this thread but clicked the wrong button. The new thread is called 'Yaboot consults Mann', which is where I have asked you some wuestions about the Phantasmagoric Knight of Swords.
**Moderators - apologies - pop the other thread under this one if it is in the wrong place - cheers!*
Yaboot
Little Baron
22-07-2003, 14:06
Originally posted by Maan
The facts that he still steals toys might suggest..to mean that is...in certain readings that although he is behaving pretty badly he is a child and his actions are not mean in the core.
I very much like that idea. I hadn't considered it that way before but will give it some more thought.
Thanks
Yaboot
*If you are not getting Tom Tom a lot these days, who is passing through the most regularly?*
I have the RWS and like it very much, however I would like a deck with a different point of view. I quite like the look of the Phantasmagoric, especially since the artist has put a lot of his own symbolism into it (jigsaws, dice etc).
Could anyone tell me how closely he has stuck with the RWS system (I'm hoping this deck isn't just a RWS-clone)?
And also if his own system seems 'solid' (i.e consistent and well-thought out)?
Thanks.
I have the RWS and like it very much, however I would like a deck with a different point of view. I quite like the look of the Phantasmagoric, especially since the artist has put a lot of his own symbolism into it (jigsaws, dice etc).
Could anyone tell me how closely he has stuck with the RWS system (I'm hoping this deck isn't just a RWS-clone)?
And also if his own system seems 'solid' (i.e consistent and well-thought out)?
Thanks.
Hi teomat,
I'm sorry, I don't have the answers you need but you may find them in the study group for this deck. It has it's own subforum over in the Individual Deck Studies area: http://www.tarotforum.net/forumdisplay.php?f=118
Little Baron
18-07-2007, 13:28
I think there are echos of RWS in the deck, but they are not as blatant. They are understandable in general, but they do not suffocate the deck's own distinctive energy.
What I like is that each suit is set in a different world. And there is a small story revolving around each character. Some characters appear more than once. It gives the deck it's own flavour and the names [Doctor Lock, TomTom, Lucy, Madam Lola] all help to remind you of what each card can and might mean in a reading.
I really adore this deck. It was one of the first that really made any sense to me.
LB
Thanks for the responses.
I'm a little put off by the size of the cards, but I really like the theme. I also like the idea of it having it's own symbolic basis, and not just re-hashing the RWS.
Mmmm...I think I'll have to ponder on it a bit more and check out the study group.
Little Baron
19-07-2007, 03:52
I think it is so underated, and am surprised that more people havn't awoken to it. It is far more interesting than a lot of the stuff that is being produced. It is not a 'safe bet' for artist and publisher, but that is why I like it. Many goo and drool over the same old stuff being rehashed every year, but this deck is a 'one and only'. You can't make something like this twice. And there is just no need to.
LB
Many goo and drool over the same old stuff being rehashed every year, but this deck is a 'one and only'.
I would agree. I wrote many bits with this deck and one poem with Tom Tom.
I never thought of it as goofy or cute, because Graham Cameron seems to have a real grip on the human condition. I have never seen artwork like this anywhere--that says it all for me.
Bundie and Doctor Lock are my favourites. Bundy is the sun!! Just checking some threads in the old study group. I LOVE this deck--good memories of using it and soaring creatively.
It's one of THE magic decks.
Little Baron
19-07-2007, 10:33
Yes, room. It is definitely one of THE magic decks.
I can remember so many stories that wove through those cards. I can remember reads I did with it. I can remember escaping between the different scenes and backgrounds of the theatre. And I loved TomTom and his little brother. What was his name? Sabian, or something like that? And I loved that they had their own names.
This deck is larger than life. It is a feast of colour and character. Anyone who says they have a problem with courts are not using this deck. They are shaped and moulded perfectly. And I have never seen a deck which has so many people I recognise from my own life in it.
Favourites? Far, far, far too many to mention. Aside from a couple, I like every single card. I think the Page of Pentacles might have been a disappointment, if I remember rightly. But ... you gotta love the 'Lunatic of Negativity'. I have lived next door from him a couple of times in my life.
The study group for this deck is brilliant. There has been some excellent posts. If you do buy this deck [and I would urge you to], unearth some of those old threads and I will be sure to make some comments again. Being part of that group was a very enriching and alive experience.
I am always a little surprised that many people didn't catch on to this deck a little more. Like room says, it is not cute. It has a few cute characters, but on the whole, it is cloaked in a darkness that you can only see when you experience it. It is deceiving like that. Maybe it will get attention again, some day. Maybe it needs to go out of print, and then you'll get all the usual suspects jumping all over ebay, shelling out hundreds of dollars to get themselves a copy :D
LB
Another note--I was just reading those threads--done exactly 4 years ago, amazing. I was another person, I don't think I could write the same stories again. Life's truck ran over me in the interim.
Lovely to look back and see yourself as you were in a time when life was different and your energy was dazzling. I don't think Maan ever got hold of Graham Cameron to interview him, but the wonder of his intellect and imagination exists in these cards.
Yup, definitely a top 5 deck.
Grrrr!!! I promised to myself that I would stick with my RWS for a while, but I'm totally captivated by the PT images.
I've been reading the study group threads and it sounds like such a fun but genuinely original deck. And what you say LB about it's uniqueness is very appealing. I want a deck which has some real depth and thought to it. Not a RWS clone, but something that'll make me see a card from another point of view. Something which has it's own symbolic basis with the artist actually throwing some original ideas in there.
However I wish it was a bit smaller. It's the one thing that's stopping me, because I really don't like big cards.
I know there isn't a book for it, so how does the LWB measure up?
Little Baron
20-07-2007, 04:49
Grrrr!!! I promised to myself that I would stick with my RWS for a while, but I'm totally captivated by the PT images.
I've been reading the study group threads and it sounds like such a fun but genuinely original deck. And what you say LB about it's uniqueness is very appealing. I want a deck which has some real depth and thought to it. Not a RWS clone, but something that'll make me see a card from another point of view. Something which has it's own symbolic basis with the artist actually throwing some original ideas in there.
However I wish it was a bit smaller. It's the one thing that's stopping me, because I really don't like big cards.
I know there isn't a book for it, so how does the LWB measure up?
To be honest, these cards suit being large. And the space is not wasted. They have a very small border and every other part is lavishly filled with bright colour [aside from when it is not required, in a card like the 'Two of Cups'].
The LWB is very good. And it is 100% needed if you want to understand Cameron's ideas and characters.
If you look at the posts, I think that in most I started, I have included what 'Graham Cameron says' right out of the book, so you can get a flavour of his writing in the study group.
Have you seen the entire deck? I am sure it is on Taroteca.
I wasn't sure what to expect when I got mine. And it took some time to crack as I wasn't particularly experienced in tarot at the time. But once it opened up, it was such a refreshing experience. Room and I had a lot of fun, as did Maan, Spoonbender and some other AT'ers. I would say that it was probably my best 'study group' experience to date.
LB
Thanks LB.
Yes I've seen all the cards. I guess the large size, bright colours and wacky font makes it look a bit child-like. However with the bondage scenes I know it's anything but!
However with the bondage scenes I know it's anything but!
It took me a few years to realize The Hanged Man was wearing a bondage-thing over his head.
I dislike S & M intensely for the same reason I dislike armchair critics in politics. Armchair fantasies and pontificating pretties are fatuous compared to the pain and suffering victims of REAL violence REALLY go through.
I once dared someone to tour a hospital and see what actually happens to people in violent situations in contrast to S & M fantasies. Of course he never would--that would have been too close to reality, too emotional, too truthful for him. Like the silly Savage Tarot, the savages are playing dress up in their armchairs with filter effects on full.
(Please, no one write me a self-righteous pontificating rant about the glories of S & M.)
So, I found this a bit startling in relation to the Phantasmagoric, particularly since I do like the deck so much. But it is rather a perfect depiction on The Hanged Man as a symbol of bondage of the mind and "hanging" around in general.
Nowhere Man, featureless.
The Phantasmagoric is one of my favourite decks. It's a wonderful deck when you want to answer practical questions. It doesn't stick closely to the RWS - in fact, I wouldn't class it as a clone. (I'm not fond of the RWS.) The lwb is quite informative but, quite honestly, the joy of this deck is that it's so great to read with intuitively.
tortoise
20-07-2007, 16:20
This was the first deck that I really read intuitively--- and threw away the LWB so I wouldn't use it. I kinda wish I had it now, but not enough to actively search for it online or from USG.
I like this deck a lot--- it is paradoxical? the style of art work vs the messages it conveys?
It's really good stuff :)
rwcarter
27-09-2008, 00:07
K. I'm going to bump an old thread to admit to anyone at AT who reads this, that I was wrong. I've looked at this deck many times over the years and just went, "Eh. Ugly. Cartoonish. Doesn't make sense. Silly. Not for me." Well, I finally broke down and bought it cause it was on sale. It arrived today.
Every time I got to a card whose imagery didn't make sense to me, I looked in the LWB and it made sense. I really need to stop looking at decks through RWS lenses.... What looks simple, silly and cartoonish at first glance is really deep on closer inspection.
So, I was wrong about this deck! There. I said it. I feel much better now. :D
There are a couple of things I think I'm going to have to work myself out of though:
The Fool reminds me of the 80's (90's?) video game Q-Bert
The High Priestess reminds me of Whoopi Goldberg for some reason
The Empress looks a little crazed (a la Norma Desmond) to me
There are 11 stars on the 9 Wands
The black and white creature in the set in the 8 Wands looks to me like he's hanging from a rope (I know it's where the side and back walls join, but still....)
The creature in the 5 Cups looks like an impotent Devil
Generally, the bigger the head of the being, the more I'm freaked out by the card....
This deck would definitely benefit from a prolonged period of study. I vehemently disagree with anyone who thinks this is a RWS clone. I also disagree that a companion book is necessary for this deck. The LWB (which I agree is infinitely better than most) gives just enough info to get the creative juices flowing....
I don't know when I'll get around to using this deck, but it's definitely on the list of decks I must use before I move on to the next phase of my existence....
Rodney
Well Rodney- you are so right about this deck. Before I got the Fantastic Menagerie, this was the deck I used exclusively for my family readings. I have got it out again and looked once more at the cards whilst reading this thread.
I have the Deviant Moon, and as much as I see a similar bent to the cards the PTT, the PTT has a greater range for me in reading for those people I know best. The size suits me, the colours are atmospheric, the images are cartoons but not twee, and it reminds me of no other decks (I do not transfer meanings from one deck to this one) and best of all the cards are really genderless.
I hope you get a chance to thoroughly use the deck and have the success in use that I have found with it. MY favourite card is the Sun. I often have journaled the cards as if they were sentences in a conversation.
Sun : " I have been waiting all night and you are still asleep! Come on wake up life is waiting"
~Rosanne