View Full Version : Rider Waite card(s) secret......
Here's a Rider Waite secret that I recently learned about. I can't believe I never noticed it before.
Take tarot key X (Wheel of Fortune) and look at the letters on the wheel. Turn it around and read it both ways. Then look at tarot key II (The High Priestess). Wow.... Am I the only one that never noticed this?
Freddie
tarotbear
04-12-2001, 00:05
You mean the 'tarot/tora' similarity? Wouldn't exactly call it 'secret'. Taro means 'road' and Tora means laws. Spell it backwards and you get 'rota', which also means wheel.
tarotbear (04 Dec, 2001 15:05):
You mean the 'tarot/tora' similarity? Wouldn't exactly call it 'secret'. Taro means 'road' and Tora means laws. Spell it backwards and you get 'rota', which also means wheel.
YUP YUP YUP, It's not really a secret...
Hail to thee, tarotbear. I wish you would post your opinion in my topic on 10 pents as well... :'(
tarotbear (04 Dec, 2001 15:05):
Wouldn't exactly call it 'secret'. Taro means 'road' and Tora means laws...
The Tora(h) is also the Old testament, the sacred book held by the High Priestess in Waite's version of the deck.
This Wheel of Fortune representation originally comes from E. Levi, and has other 'hidden' meanings:
Orat - to speak/say
Taro - I have to qualify Tarotbear's statement. According to repeated unexamined statements by a number of authors, 'Tarot' is presumed to derive from 'Ta Rosh', presumed ancient Egyptian for 'Royal Road/Path'. This meaning has seriously been questioned.
Rota - which tarotbear has already pointed out, means 'wheel' or 'to turn'
Ator - a variant of the ancient Egyptian Goddess 'Hathor'
and a couple of others... left to discover
I you wish to discover an even more hidden 'secret', look at the various symbols on the Fool's tunic...
I didn't mean "secret" that literally, but it is true, it's no secret. Maybe I'd called it semi-hidden symbolism or something like that.
In reading Paul Foster Case I've found out things about the current deck (Tarot Classic) I'm using that never occured to me as well as the R/W. It's strange (meaning me) that a person could look at the same deck for a long time and never pick up on some of it's symbolism.
Thank you all for the info,
Freddie
JMD I'll check out "The Fool". I still can't believe I never noticed the words on the wheel. Thanks for the extra info all.
I am so glad that someone has posted this obsevation Ilove it when there is these discoveries !!!! keep up the observations and keep up the sharings .......... I have taken this info and shared it with another friend and this has helped us to go more into the card and to get more of a feeling for it .. Abig ty
Hi all,
All I have to say is WOW...Never noticed the Fool's cloths..
any other insight for beginners to notice?
cj
How about these ones:
The Pomegranates on II & III.
Which cards have both Roses and Lillies?
Check the Moon's towers, and then the Death Card.
How many Majors have a prominent square depicted on clothing (eg, Justice)... Which also have the point-circle?!?
And what of the Lingum-Yoni on the Chariot!?!
Why use B(oaz) and J(aochim) on the Pillars... and what is their esoteric and Biblical reference...
That's enough for starters!!!
JMD & Tarotbear, we are waiting for books from you both.
I've found I can see alot more symbolism with my Universal Waite deck. I will say I wish the backs would quit rubbing off on the other card faces. I've got black streaks all over this deck.
Is "The Hermit" in the Ten of Pentacles card or am I imagining it's him? It almost looks to me like they are up in "The Tower" with him on the same cliff he and "The Fool" stand on.
Great info, Thanks,
Freddie
So many of the similarities one can see within a deck can become really useful when doing readings... so for example, if during a reading, the seated older man on the ten of Coins came to you as the Hermit, then use the meanings it could lead you to (... maybe the hermit needs to come home ... Wisdom needs to be applied in the completion of a project ... Let the final phase of an undertaking have the input of a leading figure, which may illuminate the situation from a different angle ... &c)
I do not know if Colman-Smith intentionally sought to have this resemblance...
I was planning to wait a couple of weeks to post what follows, but I'm going to be pretty busy...
So now for my 'favourite' open secret on those cards (if you're not familiar with the Tree of Life, please get a diagramme to accompany what follows):
Take a look at II The High Priestess, at the curtain behind her, and at the relative positions of the visible pomegranates:
Kether stands above her head,
Hockmah and Binah on its sides,
Hesed and Geburah at the shoulders, and
Netzach and Hod at her hips!
This corresponds exactly to the Tree when 'laid out' on a person...
Can i just throw thiS in ...
Would the roses and lillies signify the time of the month that those flowers appear ,, IN aUSTRALIA THESE FLOWERS ARE OUT NOW ! around xmas time about the lets say um 5th thru till end of jan for lillies and the roses well they tend to go on for a while but the lillies come out at the beginning of the summer here !!! what do you all think about that !!!
I personally have never used the flowers to indicate time... but why not! If this aspect comes to you in a reading, use it!
One of the very interesting aspect of these flowers is their traditional meaning.
Roses have either five petals, or a multiple of five, whilst lillies have six.
Roses have an element of the lotus: they 'forever' unfold (think of the rich varieties, not the Dog Rose or other important archetypal five petalled ones). Lilies 'strive' forward.
The Rose is also related to the five wounds of Christ, whilst the Lilly is related to the Lilly of the Valley (Biblical reference).
These flowers are also symbolic in alchemy, and of course, in Rosicrucianism (not just the AMORC variety).
Lastly, they can represent two different temperaments, two cultures, and the Pentagramme and the Hexagramme.
Karenwhe
30-01-2003, 00:03
Back to the Wheel of Fortune.
Did anyone notice what is written in Hebrew?
Yehova - Lord, God (something like that translated)
Haia - Was, happened (about the past)
Hove - present
VeHaia - and there was (the letter Vav stands in Hebrew for the word "and" when directly translated).
To go further Haia also means in Hebrew "animal" and there are animals in the image. However I don't think that this has any relation to the image because the word “animal” in Hebrew is written with the letter Het not Hay (for those that know the Hebrew alphabet from the tarot will know what I mean).
Remember that in Hebrew you read the letters from Left to Right not the other way around like in English.
And the most amazing this is that no matter how you turn the letter you still get the same words. Taro is Orat for example but in Hebrew you just get the same thing. Try it and you shall see.
If you want to see the letter and the way the words are written, I wrote them blow. To enable your browser to view Hebrew letters: go to View menu on your Browser click on Encoding then click More then select Hebrew Windows (that should do the trick).
In Hebrew it looks like this:
éäåä, äéä, äåä, åäéä
çéä
firemaiden
12-02-2003, 19:13
Originally posted by jmd
Take a look at II The High Priestess, at the curtain behind her, and at the relative positions of the visible pomegranates:
Kether stands above her head,
Hockmah and Binah on its sides,
Hesed and Geburah at the shoulders, and
Netzach and Hod at her hips!
This corresponds exactly to the Tree when 'laid out' on a person...
No WAY, jmd, that's amazing! I had no idea. Can we copy this to the HP thread in RW study group?
(Where is everybody?)
paradoxx
14-05-2003, 17:14
some of the most interesting and enlighting concepts i have every read. my turn.
The suit of wands can represent flag poles. The two of wands represents the current Nation/State design. But look at the three of wands (it also looks like the magician), as one pole is higher than the other two as supported by the individual. The Four of Wands could represent (from a US POV) Homeland Security with a flag for the nation, the state(district.territory), the county (or province) and local community. Given the nature of todays world (and that of the early 20th century) and how much the flag has been seen this interpretation lends a new angle.
The Court cards of the Wands suit. The page and knight have salamanders on their garbs and the King on his throne. But the salamanders on the kings throne are eating their own tails (a modification of the oroborus). a live salamander joins the king on his pedastal.
Not only is the hermit in the 10 of pentacles, but the family from the 10 of cups and the dog from the fool card.
I find the creature on the two of cups resembling one of the creatures from the Book of Revelation. A lions head with the wings of an eagle. (given recent US/UK politics i wonder if this is the biblical meaning as well as an intended tarot interpretation)
The Dradle (sic) on the shield of the Chariot Card.
ok my hand is getting tired.
Has anyone else noticed that on the 7 of wands the guy is wearing one shoe and one boot?
Or the nine of pentacles has a second person? It's hard to spot but its there, way in the distance. Blessings Dakini
Can anyone explain if the red feathers in 0-The Fool, 13-Death and 19-The Sun have any symbolic meaning?
Thanks for an insight you wish to share.
Verna
Little Baron
18-06-2003, 06:47
Hi everyone
The beauty of the tarot and this 'wonderful' website is the sharing and the immediate responses from the people whom use it. Learning from a book can feel so cold in comparison and doesn't fire the energies, passions and excitement that working in this way does. Our eyes and senses are what is bringing this deck alive for me.
Firstly, I have been searching for the second person in the 9 of pentacles but cannot find them. Where exactly are they? Please tell me before I go crazy looking.
Secondly, a very small observation which is probably new to me. Is there any significance to what appears to be a snail in the bottom left hand corner? I always engaged on the figure and the bird in this card. It is only, through learning with you guys that I have truely opened my eyes and looked further into the images on this deck. I think that a lot of people disregard the Rider Waite decks because they find its images to be flat and not so inspiring. I am realising that this deck is far more sophisticated than a lot of the more modern and popular packs.
Lastly, above what appears to me to be a snail, can anybody interpret what the black 'squiggle' is that sits just beneath the pentacle.
Thanks to you all.
Yaboot
Originally posted by Yaboot001
Firstly, I have been searching for the second person in the 9 of pentacles but cannot find them. Where exactly are they? Please tell me before I go crazy looking.
Lastly, above what appears to me to be a snail, can anybody interpret what the black 'squiggle' is that sits just beneath the pentacle.
Yaboot, hi...
I am not very sure this is right, but if there is another person on this card he is standing below the tree in the left hand corner. I went crazy looking too and then for a second when I was looking at something else, slightly unfocused look did the trick. :D I can't be sure if that is just a leaf segment, or a person, could be either.
The squiggle that you talk abvout is a grape vine tendril IMO. dunno what snail means though.
Shubha
Wow,
There's a lot of things going on in this thread!
Regarding the High Priestess, look at where the sphere on her crown is located. Exactly were Daath would be! Also, the cross over her heart correlates to Tipheret. The significance of these two correspondences is far beyond the scope of this thread. (and my limited experience!)
This one's a little too obvious but the 10 of pentacles has the coins arranged in the tree of life.
"I find the creature on the two of cups resembling one of the creatures from the Book of Revelation. A lions head with the wings of an eagle."
Read Crowley's explanation for this symbol and the two of cups will make a lot more sense.
" Can anyone explain if the red feathers in 0-The Fool, 13-Death and 19-The Sun have any symbolic meaning?"
I read somewhere that the feather on The Fool and The Sun represents Uraeus, the cobra found on the headress of Egyptian royality. Symbolizing spiritual enlightenment and protection from harm. That definition seems to fit those two cards well. About the one on the Death card, I don't know, to paraphrase Freud, maybe sometimes a feather is just a feather :)
The Nine of Pentacles, for me, is about patience. Slow and steady wins the race. The snail, trained bird and grape vines symbolize this. I've never trained a bird before but just teaching a dog to sit requires a lot of patience! I just thought of something else. What do you do to grape vines? You train them!
I guess that's enough for now.
Originally posted by Yaboot001
Firstly, I have been searching for the second person in the 9 of pentacles but cannot find them. Where exactly are they? Please tell me before I go crazy looking.Lastly, above what appears to me to be a snail, can anybody interpret what the black 'squiggle' is that sits just beneath the pentacle.
now this is strange.....
was reading the post re 9 of pentacles and grabbed my deck to take a good look at the card, as i do a daily card reflection draw i turned the deck upside down to hunt thru the cards and hmmmm...what was there sitting on the bottom.......the 9 of pentacles
Ancient Egyptian religions saw the feather as the personification of pure truth. The symbol of the soul
the fool is truth
death returns us to pure truth
the sun is truth (innocence)
the feather could be seen as the truth of the soul.
In ancient times the heart of the deceased was weighed against a feather by osiris. then the persons fate was decided.
Also the expresssion " a feather in your cap" meaning good fate, fortune, a happy circumstance.
Red is the color of the base chakra but also one of energy, vitality and life.
Little Baron
14-08-2003, 19:51
Thanks for that Matfav; I will jot those points down.
Yaboot
Little Baron
14-08-2003, 19:53
Thanks Shuba. Will take a look for that in the morning.
Regards
Yaboot
What is the correlation between the infinity sign above the I Magus and the infinity symbol above the woman in VIII Strength?
Rusty Neon
15-08-2003, 01:51
Originally posted by Phoenyx
What is the correlation between the infinity sign above the I Magus and the infinity symbol above the woman in VIII Strength?
It's interesting to note in the case of the Strength card, the 8th numbered RWS trump, that the infinity symbol is the number 8 turned on its side. This is especially interesting in light of the fact that the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and the RWS deck reverse the 8th and 11th trumps from the Tarot de Marseille trump order.
I only started getting into the Tarot some months ago (this is my first post!), and have usually found that what the cards say to me is rather different from the consensus meaning... but when I found this thread and started looking for the hidden images (the other face on the child on 6c, the second person on 9p, the skull on 7c), I had no trouble finding them.
Seems to me like not all hope is lost...
k r a n t z
other amazing discoveries(I can't believe I didn't notice these before!)
For example,(and I could be wrong about this)I never noticed the dead king being trampled over by the white horse in the Death trump. Also are my eyes seeing things or is that the(priest)in the Hierophant bowing (like in submission)before Death. Also did anybody notice the two towers in the distance(like on the Moon)only the sun is rising between them now? What does that mean-new consciousness after sub-conciousness?
In the Star and Temperance both figures have one foot in the water and one out(balancing emotion and logic?). The woman in the star is pouring out while the angel in Temperence is mixing.
As for the 10 of cups family,it looks like their happiness despite thier humble beginnings has dissipated due to thier over emphasis on managing thier accumulated wealth. Family relationships seem to be ignored,(the child, dogs and old man).
Maybe if the old man is really the Hermit the child and the dogs are attracted to him because he represents wisdom.(He is patting the dogs while the child is too-maybe realizing there are other role models in this family?) Maybe he is part of the family because he balances out the overemphasis on
material gain.
As far as the double helix(I think thats what its called-correct me if I'm wrong)in Strenght and the Magician I think it means that they both get thier inspiration for handling things a different way by
spiritual forces.
I give up! I cant find the second person on this card either!!
I also don't see the second face on the child in the 6 Cups..
Where is it?? Help!
One of my favorite hidden images is in the 4 of Pentacles. It's the PAX written in the halo on the head of the saint in the stained glass window. This detail is not clear on the Universal Waite deck but very clear in the standard.
T
There is no stained glass window in the 4 pentacles.
Crystalmynx xx
Oops, found it, it's on the 4 Swords.
Crystalmynx xx
[QUOTE]Originally posted by crystalmynx
[B]Oops, found it, it's on the 4 Swords.
Thanks. I must have been typing without thinking. Turned into a treasure hunt. Yep, the stained glass window on the 4 of Swords. What's with the three swords hanging over him, while he lies on top of one sword? Why "Peace"?
T
slinky_jo
21-09-2003, 02:50
I really like the 10 of pentacles - and have been wondering what's that large dark portion on the LEFT meant to be (next to the old man) - is it a painting or a window? - and does it have a secret meaning?? It seems to have a hill or tower on it. It this tower a warning - as in "don't feel too comfortable, things can change???"
Just wondering :D
One thing that started to bother me this week. Does anybody know why merchander in 6 of pentacles has hand just like Hierophant and guy on 10 of swords? And why gesture on Devil looks just like the one of Spock from Star Treck?
Originally posted by slinky_jo
I really like the 10 of pentacles - and have been wondering what's that large dark portion on the LEFT meant to be (next to the old man) - is it a painting or a window? - and does it have a secret meaning?? It seems to have a hill or tower on it. It this tower a warning - as in "don't feel too comfortable, things can change???"
Yes - the left side of this card is very intriguing. Above the old man's head, on the arch itself are two banners:
-Balanced scales (representing Justice/Libra?).
-A castle or church (a heavenly abode?).
Then there is
-A window frame? in checkerboard (reference to Masonry?),
-Framing a view of another world that doesn't match the dimensions of the main scene - similar to that famous metaphysical print where a man is bending over to look into the clockwork world behind this one.
-Containing a tower similar to the one on the cliff top on the 8 of Swords - the heights of aspiration, a spiritual home? The Grail Castle?
-The old man is the Fisher King? Ulysses returning home?
-The markings in the sky above the tower are like a cherub with wings (there are three dots that could represent a face) - divine grace?
All this on theTree of Life feminine pillar of severity containing Binah, Geburah, and Hod.
It certainly looks like a coded message from A. E. Waite. What else could these things represent? It may be Waite's "signature" card - his spiritual "abode" and "entrance" to the mystical "archives". Abode, entrance, and archives are words from his commentary on the card.
T
sweet_intuition
08-12-2006, 16:20
This is an amazing thread. It has really been an eye-opener to me and has made me fall in love with my Original Rider Waite Deck
And I found the second person in the 9 of pentacles. Clue: He is on the right hand side, and we can see a bit of his hand :).
sweet_intuition
08-12-2006, 16:59
This has to do with the Fool and Judgement (Please correct me if I am wrong).
If you notice, in the background, the Fool, and Judgement have a similar range of snow-capped hills. At first it didn't seem like much, but then I remembered how in older decks, The Fool was placed between Judgment and the World. Could this have been a way of linking the old system of arranging the majors with the new?
Another explaination I thought was that the cycle of Reincarnation is never ending. However, after we pass away, our souls and karmas are "judged" and then if we have been able to fulfill our karmic destiny of this incarnation, we receive major karmic boons (the world) and our soul is elevated to the next higher incarnation. If, however, we weren't able to fulfill our karmic destiny, we are reincarnated back to the beginning (the fool) to go through the journey all over again to fulfill our karmic destiny.
Do lemme know what you all think.
I found the second person in the 9 of pentacles. Clue: He is on the right hand side, and we can see a bit of his hand :).
I haven't been able to find the person or the hand - not even with my giant deck and a magnifying glass, nor with the B&W line drawing. Can you post a blow up of the section?
sweet_intuition
08-12-2006, 23:52
I haven't been able to find the person or the hand - not even with my giant deck and a magnifying glass, nor with the B&W line drawing. Can you post a blow up of the section?
Hey Mary
Since I didn't have a scanner, I did a google image search for the card and blew up that. The universal waite ignores this aspect. I discovered this on my Original Rider-Waite deck.
I could be wrong, but do check it out and let me know.
One of my favorite hidden images is in the 4 of [Swords].
It's the PAX written in the halo on the head of the saint
in the stained glass window.Thanks :) Mary! "Give Peace a Chance!" might be
a good key-phrase for this wonderful card too! :heart:
LixiPixi
09-12-2006, 12:11
I could be wrong, but do check it out and let me know.
That's a vine from the grapes wrapped around the framing that supports the grapes as they grow. The thing hanging in front of it is a tassle from her glove or sleeve. That's what I see, anyway :)
LP~
sweet_intuition
09-12-2006, 14:06
That's a vine from the grapes wrapped around the framing that supports the grapes as they grow. The thing hanging in front of it is a tassle from her glove or sleeve. That's what I see, anyway :)
LP~
That's what it seemed at first, but look closer, see at the little space between the top of the fence and the first leaf. Don't go by this picture, see it in your own RWS deck. Take your time with it, and you'll realize it's a lonely single eye peeking through, watching the woman in the picture :)
That's what it seemed at first, but look closer, see at the little space between the top of the fence and the first leaf. Don't go by this picture, see it in your own RWS deck. Take your time with it, and you'll realize it's a lonely single eye peeking through, watching the woman in the picture :)
To tell you the truth I just don't see it. But, it would make a great story, which I hope you'll tell at the story project I'm doing at:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=71391
Mary
Hi LB- I'm not sure if anyone answered your question about the snail, we have had disscussion concerning it before.
A snail can loose part of itself in order to survive, and it can mate with itself- it is self sufficent. Look up snail or slug totem.
Salamander is a fire walker- and is very sensitive to the environment-absorbeds moisture through it skin... and so forth and so on-
Each card really does have a lot of symbolism, and spiritual meaning-I dont think anything is placed by accident.
The more familiar one is with a diverse "spiritual" background - maybe that is not the right word - but diversity of the key, animal totems, astrology, religion all of it is there to some degree or another. The Tarot just kind of connects the dots and remains ambigous in it's presentation.
Hi everyone
The beauty of the tarot and this 'wonderful' website is the sharing and the immediate responses from the people whom use it. Learning from a book can feel so cold in comparison and doesn't fire the energies, passions and excitement that working in this way does. Our eyes and senses are what is bringing this deck alive for me.
Firstly, I have been searching for the second person in the 9 of pentacles but cannot find them. Where exactly are they? Please tell me before I go crazy looking.
Secondly, a very small observation which is probably new to me. Is there any significance to what appears to be a snail in the bottom left hand corner? I always engaged on the figure and the bird in this card. It is only, through learning with you guys that I have truely opened my eyes and looked further into the images on this deck. I think that a lot of people disregard the Rider Waite decks because they find its images to be flat and not so inspiring. I am realising that this deck is far more sophisticated than a lot of the more modern and popular packs.
Lastly, above what appears to me to be a snail, can anybody interpret what the black 'squiggle' is that sits just beneath the pentacle.
Thanks to you all.
Yaboot
Has anyone noticed that Temperance has the same Hebrew symbols that appear on the Wheel of Fortune, on her breast in the folds of her dress? If someone knows Hebrew, I'd love to know the meaning of them. Also on Judgement there appear to be Hebrew symbols in the folds of her sleeve, but maybe this is conjecture.
I have real problems seeing the sign for either Capricorn or Saturn on the Devil's palm, to me it looks like the letters Aleph and Shin/Sin from the Hebrew alphabet. Aleph is the first letter and Shin the second last, is this comparable with Alpha and Omega?
Hi tippoo,
Because Hebrew is written from right to left, the letters as they appear on Temperance are HVHY. In English it is written YHVH. It is a Hebrew name of God. The exact pronunciation is unclear, but one possibility could be Yahweh. YHVH is also a frequently-used magical formula. There's a lot of info about it online.
I don't really see Capricorn in the Devil's hand either; possibly Saturn, but I think it's more involved than that.
Prendergast
14-02-2009, 18:06
After reading through all this I am going to have to get my RW pack out tonight and have a good look.
ps I thought 'tora' signified the greater law according to A E Waite.
Prendergast
17-02-2009, 19:01
Originally posted by Yaboot001
Firstly, I have been searching for the second person in the 9 of pentacles but cannot find them. Where exactly are they? Please tell me before I go crazy looking.Lastly, above what appears to me to be a snail, can anybody interpret what the black 'squiggle' is that sits just beneath the pentacle.
now this is strange.....
was reading the post re 9 of pentacles and grabbed my deck to take a good look at the card, as i do a daily card reflection draw i turned the deck upside down to hunt thru the cards and hmmmm...what was there sitting on the bottom.......the 9 of pentacles
The feather also represents the personification of Ma'at in ancient Egyptian theology as far as I know.
Sintruli
18-04-2009, 16:33
Yes, the sacred Hebrew name of God is YHVH. It is a tetragrammaton; if you flip the letters, it is HVHY, which means he/she.
The implications!!!
kara thrace
22-06-2009, 08:36
hello to everybody :)
probably someone get notices that the queen of wands has a black cat beneath her legs?
second, king of pentacles had one leg covered by plants? why?
what does it means?
maybe it s a stupid question, i'm new on this forum and i learn about tarot less than one month.
my english is also bad, as you could see.
this topic is very interesting, many of simbols i didn't noticed until i have read lots of treads posted here.
greeting from croatia :)