Aeclectic Tarot Forum - Queen of Cups: thoughts?

Phoenix_Down

09-06-2003, 05:43

I was wondering what you guys made of the queen of cups as depicted in the rider-waite...

-The cup she holds is unique within the suit of cups. No other card variates on the design of the cup so strongly; the cups in the 6 are described sometimes as oversized, and the king holds a scepter that is very cup-like in addition to the regular cup.

-The cup is lidded. It actually looks more like an urn than a cup.

-The cup is very elaborate when compared with the more simple cups on the other cards. On the two arms of the card you could almost say it was bladed.

-Rather than holding it between the stem and the bowl, like all the cups are held when they are being held (save the Ace,) she holds it with both hands. I get the impression that if she were to try to hold it one-handed from below (like the ace), it would fall.

-Her facial expression seems sad in the universal waite, or even angry in the original Rider-Waite.

-She sits before the ocean, but her concentration is fixed on the cup she holds.

-Many of you may have noticed, that none of the Queens and Kings in the deck have matching crowns. The design of the crown is probably a hint as to the meaning of the card.

-Her feet are crossed at the heel. Only one foot is showing.

-The clasp of her cloak... is it a rose?

-What at first appear to be cherubs on the throne, are actually mer-children. Two look down on her, and the third is crawling out of the ocean.

Conclusions I have made: With all the focus on the cup, the queen is investing a lot of energy into her emotions, or the vessel of her emotions, and she is not happy. The queen strikes me as being depressed or co-dependant. With the water theme of the deck, this may suggest alcoholism.

If the cup is an urn, then the Queen is here to spread ashes of a loved one out to sea. She has not, and instead sits and refuses to let go. The queen may be someone that needs to let go. In any event, the queen seems to have a lot of weight on her shoulders, but won't let go.

sagitarian

09-06-2003, 13:19

I used to use the Hanson Roberts deck, and I like her queen of cups much better. In any case, the queen of cups to me represents someone who has mastered their emotions, who understands them on a deep level, and is devoted to looking, analyzing, and living their life by concerning their heart (vs. the intellect) first. They live their life by what their heart tells them vs what logic or reason tells them. They tend to be more serious, and takes things seriously. They speak in a more meaningful depth of analogies then most, finding meaning in things that most don't see. B/c of this, they are often misunderstood, and classified as depressed, or other psychological problems. I don't find alcoholism in this card at all, more freedom of the rational/logical brain and listening to the ulterior ego. However, they are such caregivers that their ulterior ego tells them to help people even if they can't. The type of person that would give their shirt off their back, be there in 5 mins or less if you call them regardless that you haven't talked to them in 6 months or more, and usually have animals around them. Their very loving, and very devoted to family, and all other matters that deal with the heart. They just haven't seem to be able to get their life in control like the king of cups, and often their not sure of why. But that's for another study.

Chronata

11-06-2003, 21:51

My favorite explaination about the cup in the Rider Waite Queen of Cups is that it is a special vessel used for scrying. Filled with water, she can look into it to see the future...and the next "big thing".

She is the most sensitive, both in terms of emotions and of psychic abilities, due to her connection with the element of water.

For many centuries people have used different tools for scrying, including crystals, mirrors, bowls and cups.
This cup actually resembles the kind used by various parlor mediums, especially at the turn of the century.

(Somewhere I recall seeing a photo of Madame Blavatsky, the famous medium, with a cup that looks a lot like the one on the card...but I have a feeling she used it for more than just seeing the future!)

Adele

03-11-2003, 17:47

the Queen of cups, for me, represents someone who is sexual, psychic, emotional, loving, caring...but don't get on her bad side either! lol she is very in tune with her feelings and can often feel others feelings too. she looks deep into the heart of things. further, she can have sex with you one day and leave you the next! she is a bit unpredictable... I see her as cancer, the water sign.

firestorm

15-11-2003, 11:33

Adele: I see the queen of wands as the sexual one that could have sex with you one day and leave you the next.....the queen of cups seems to me more "clingy".....the type that wouldn't leave you even if she should!

Phoenix down: The clasp of her cloak looks like a shell to me.

Rusty Neon

15-11-2003, 12:27

In Wang's book _The Qabalistic Tarot_, you can see the RWS Queen of Cups next to the Golden Dawn deck's version thereof. It becomes apparent that the Queen's cup in RWS version of that card is very much based on the cup in the OGD Queen of Cups card, but in Waite's disguised way.

Referring to the GD card, Wang writes that there's a crayfish emerging from the cup. (In the RWS, you can make out the claws as disguised by Waite). Wang indicates that the crayfish relates to the Moon, the Moon indicating changing flows, consistent with "this totally watery card". For the OGD, the Queen of Cups is Water of Water (Queen = Water; Cups = Water).

About the Queen of Cups, Waite was rather poetic:

"Beautiful, fair and dreamy -- as one who sees visions in a cup. This is, however, only one of her aspects; she sees, but she also acts, and her activity feeds her dream."

Jewel-ry

15-11-2003, 13:30

Originally posted by Rusty Neon

Referring to the GD card, Wang writes that there's a crayfish emerging from the cup. (In the RWS, you can make out the claws as disguised by Waite). Wang indicates that the crayfish relates to the Moon, the Moon indicating changing flows, consistent with "this totally watery card". For the OGD, the Queen of Cups is Water of Water (Queen = Water; Cups = Water).

I have the Radiant Rider-Waite deck and the claws are obviously part of the cup. I never thought of the connection with the moon though. Thats great! Thanks

Whats just occurred to me whilst looking at this card is the smoothness of the pebbles. Again this symbolises a lot of emotional energy. Stones become pebbles by the fast energy of water.

Indigo Rose

18-11-2003, 09:33

In looking at the Univeral Waite Queen of CUPS, I analyzed the golden statue she is holding and I was immediately reminded of the Holy Ark of the Covenant of God, described in the Bible. Though it is not a replica, I do see similarities.
I see this queen as deeply spiritual. She is psychic, emotion ruled, and a lover of all. Her heart belongs to GOD and a higher wisdom. She is a seeker of truth and light. Hers is the water....deep, mysterious, and life-giving.

Mystic Zyl

18-11-2003, 10:07

Wow, I have never even seen half of the symbolism in the picture of the Queen of Cups that all of you have revealed! Maybe the Queen needs a twelve step program and anti depressants.

Indigo Rose

18-11-2003, 11:02

GOOD ONE! ANYBODY as deeply emotional and psychic as this Queen needs some kind of help. Trust me I know!

WalesWoman

26-12-2003, 14:27

These are great insights into the Queen of Cups, she's been in a couple of my spreads in the last few days.
I think of her as a hopeless romantic, the cup is elaborate because of the energy she puts into the fantasy of romantic love and relationships, she looks pensive, perhaps, because men being men, are not like the romantic heros they are in novels and chick flicks and it breaks her heart to have to acknowledge the fantasy is not the reality. Perhaps it makes her wonder if she's making a big deal out of nothing, ie, men are oafs in the romance dept. preferring beer and football games to wine and candlelit dinners and has to accept a bit of disallusion or two, maybe she wants that fantasy ideal lover to be real and if the relationship doesn't live up to her expectations, then she is in the wrong one.

I like the idea of water working the rough edges off of the stones, polishing then. Sort of hang in there, eventually the energy of unconscious emotion of unrelentless love will smooth over the rough spots, just as the ebb and flow of the tides rise and fall, everchanging and renewing the the beach. Love is not a static thing, it's always changing yet consistent in it's cycles.

I'm still working on the cliff in the background, any ideas of what that might mean?

gloria

02-01-2004, 12:43

Originally posted by Rusty Neon
Referring to the GD card, Wang writes that there's a crayfish emerging from the cup. (In the RWS, you can make out the claws as disguised by Waite)

Is the Queen of Cups therefore confronting her 'demons?'

gloria

03-01-2004, 06:02

No wonder this Queen doesn't hold her cup by the 'handles'.....Ouch!!!

WalesWoman

04-01-2004, 14:23

In the Moon card, the crayfish is symbolic of emerging consciouness, I think. So maybe it means that she contains her awareness of her emotions, is conscious of her emotions, but in relation to the Moon card this could also be showing her emergent, uncontainable intuitive, "psychic" nature too. Interesting, I was trying to figure out why there were sharp saw blades on the handles! LOL

lou

05-01-2004, 10:24

a friend of mine (male) recently appeard to me as a queen of cup revearsed. what could it mean? could it be 'being a trickster with emotions, owns and others '? that's what I feel about. what else could it suggest for you? let me know if you have some insight.
thanks
lou.

Indigo Rose

07-01-2004, 16:04

Lou, Queen of Cups(R) can mean it is someone who "loves too much", and allows others to take advantage of them. It also describes a woman whose emotions are out of balance. Queen of cups is an emotional woman, upright, but reversed those emotions are imbalanced....TOO emotional, and not rational.

Dasani

10-01-2004, 11:50

I have found that that a "cup"
..."offering some opportunity from the unconscious"
...can represent an important event or ceremony (e.g. chalice another meaning for cup used in ceremonies)

Maybe the Queen is trying to tell us that she is staring at the cup because she is confused with her intuition. She is not aware of the emotions she is feeling or why her emotions have her feeling this way. Maybe some event has made her feel this way.
The cliff in the background may be a small issue she has to climb. When she gets to the top of the cliff her intuition will be clearer for her awareness & the issue will be delt with.

Maybe there is just tooooo much water in this picture so it is so flowing nothing is stable & she is staring trying to get her balance or to get grounded.

So she's taken the offering of the unconscious & now she is stumped with her own knowing.

Just some ideas.

Dasani

10-01-2004, 12:21

O.K. this is one card that has bothered me. I also just found in some notes

-you are tuned in to secret areas of your being that are ususally closed off
-a powerful spiritual force is present
-metaphysical disciplines should be learned & practiced now
-red & blue robe that blends the conscious & subconscious minds
-cherubs on the throne , guardianship of divine beings who protect & guide her

*ornate cup of visions and sees in it the event in the sphere of the zodiac; therefore, the cup portrays the divine gift of reflective clairvoyance.
Hope this helps.

WalesWoman

11-01-2004, 11:39

Good ideas Ros, especially since I've been getting this Queen reversed in the past several days and thought I must be becoming unhinged and the reversed meanings I found were so strange and nasty that it was making me feel even more apprehensive about the whole thing.
From Rachel Pollack, "Seventy Eight Degrees of Wisdom" the unity of vision and action is broken. Some one powerful, ambitious, yet dangerous, because she cannot be trusted! EEKS! the love that gives meaning to the action of creating what comes from imagination is lost, so her goals can't be realized, loss of commitment to values greater than her own success. with loss of futher balance becomes dishonorable, even depraved, as creative force lurches out of control. !!!!

I can accept this if I'm looking at this from an artistic standpoint and my goal to turn my art into a business, gaining a name for myself and actually making some $, divorcing my love of painting and creating into reproducing my art for profit and losing that Purity of creation. I am afraid that commercialism could dictate what I create and have avoided that so far, since the business part is still a dream rather than a reality. I look at this as a warning, in order to keep my priorities straight, if I look at art as a means to a goal, rather than the quality of what I create will gain my goal, then my work will suffer and I won't get where I want to.

But as for me, the person, arrgh! Except that the artist IS this person.
I stump myself all the time! The more I learn, the more I have to digest and make sense of and at times it's overwhelming. I'm surrounded by water, I live on an island! Fish are our livelihood! Too funny!

WalesWoman

24-01-2004, 14:26

I noticed something when I was really looking at this card, down at the bottom of the throne, between her cloak and the base, looks like the bow of a ship and a crescent moon. I'm wracking my brain to figure out what that could mean.
The little merchild next to it holds a fish (wisdom) with his arm raised opposite but similar to the magician, like a benidiction too, and the wavy lines behind him suggest an upsurge. Wisdom gained from strong emotion?

Acting_girl

16-02-2004, 19:04

Interesting reading all the views, and how everyone sees something at least a little different. I guess thats personal interpretation for you! We are all individual.

I'm wondering how people FEEL themselves when they look at the card. I've not been happy for some time looking at the 'blades/crayfish/arms' of the cup. I don't like the black or the shape of them. But I'm happy with the Queen herself. She looks to me to be in control or herself, not at all afraid of those sharp apendages, staring. Almost mesmorising.

By the way, I'm sure I read somewhere that those 'arms' are meant to be angels, and if I look at them I can see that - the curved shape being the wing. Quite different from blades or pincers. Still don't like the look of the thing tho' - it almost looks like an alien to me, with its arms and chunky head. There is a cross on the top which could tie in with the angels.

ScarabFlight

17-02-2004, 01:00

I see the angels in the cup and can only vaguely see them as claws. For me it seems like a good card except for the look on her face. It's kinda like she either A) doesn't like what she sees in the cup, B) is concentrating really hard and can't quite seem to see anything or C) she sees something but can't quite figure out what the heck it is. Maybe she's really thirsty and can't figure out how to get the water out of the cup. lol

Is that a little fish down on the sand on the bottom right hand side? It's a little indistinct because of the coloring. Any thoughts?

Acting_girl

17-02-2004, 18:42

I like the concentrating bit - now its reminding me of my expression sometimes when I'm concentrating! In which case, I think maybe she is just concentrating, not angry or fearful or anything. Perhaps she is holding a chalice to do with spirituality re the angels and the cross. It looks very heavy to me, yet she holds most of the weight on one hand.

I had a look at another deck I have but have never used - the medicine woman tarot - and the 'Queen' there is called the 'Nurturing lodge of the bowls'. Its amazing how totally different the cards look. In the accompanying book it talks of entering the lodge of spiritual family. I can't quite get a grip on it yet. I'm only starting to get a feel for the RW Queen as I see her -a caring, spiritual person, a 'yin' being rather than yang, arty rather than scientific - and the other deck needs more time spent on it.

I can't figure out whether what you mention is a fish or not, but if the tide is coming in the lady might get wet if she doesn't move soon. I take it we have the same deck - I have the original RW.

ScarabFlight

18-02-2004, 01:26

It has the plaid type back and it's not the Universal or the Radiant or anything.

I like what you said about her having to move if the tide is coming in. The water does look like it's moving. lol Maybe the tide just went out and left her there deposited on the shore?

Acting_girl

18-02-2004, 19:28

lol.. Magically floating in like a queen...Now I feel irreverent talking about her like this!!

It sounds like we have the same deck. I think I need a break from the QofC though. The way my readings have been going lately I'm not sure I can read a book let alone a tarot card! Maybe I need a boost from a visit to Glastonbury...

Dexter

20-02-2004, 10:00

They ar angels with their hands held together to pray. The to me reiminds of a religious object. It does hav ethe crosson the top and the angels praying. It is also closed. The clasp of the Queens robe is not a rose but a red shell. Another water sign.

The Queen of cups has always remind me of someone who is very emotional but keeps this under a lid. Her emotions are constanly changing (flowing one into the other) but due to her role she is forced to try and keep everything constant. The scowl to me as she lookks at the lidded cup shows that she is not happy in this role. She would like to be free to express her emotions as they emerge. The fact that she sits perched very near the water but on stony ground tells me againtht she is not happy in her role that it dosen't sit well with her. The top of her chair is also inset with a shell with the merchildren on either side holding it.

She reminds me of someone that is doing what she feels to be her calling, her duty rather than what she wants

SeaPrism

23-03-2004, 17:59

I learn so much of everyone's perspectives, especially on this card. I guess, for me, this card has represented someone who is nurturing and spiritual... The cup is very ornate = enormous value and complexity of her emotions... the cross on top = spirituality and reverence for them. The 2 angels on the arms of the cup are about the duality of emotions, they are dark to represent of the shadow/unconcious side of these (maybe even having angels on each shoulder whispering two different things?). They are guarding the cup = guard our emotions, protect with our higher self. Her cup is lidded and her face seems concerned = aware of the danger in uncovering some emotions, or in not preparing properly for them, "spilling" them...containment is important to her. She is using two hands, although the way she is holding her hands depicts that it may not be as heavy as it looks, it still must be carefully balanced and tenderly cared for.

Her hair is braided = she is in control of herself or at least wants to appear that way. Something else just occurred to me...emotions as "choices" for an outcome (hence the dualities)?

I see the little squiggly thing in the sand on the lower right corner of the card might be a fish, a dead one?! And her gown on her legs looks like it's wet and clinging...If so perhaps the tide is going out and so "uncovering" some things we may not like to see... but the pebbles are quite pretty, like jewels, so some things we DO want to see. Hmmm the "uncovering" tide is in contrast to the "covered" cup!

It looks to me like her watery gown (very much like the base of gown of the High Priestess) is flowing right down away into the water, very unlike her cup which is rigid, angular and tightly enclosed so as not to let anything flow out...duality again.

Strong angry water makes a sharp cliff, gentle persevering water makes a smooth stone...

She is comfortable in the midst of the ebb and flow of emotions, but knows which ones to "keep a lid on"! Understands the destructive AND formative power of water...

Just my nickel :)

tmgrl2

23-03-2004, 19:34

OK....for me...culling from various sources, Queens and Kings are people who know their place in the world...I do like to think of the court cards as people....

RW QueenCups is surrounded by water nymphs...is at the edge of water (emotions) yet she sits firmly on her throne on land...
Eden Gray talks about the cup shaped like a eucharistic emblem, after the manner of a ciborium. The cup is closed, signifying that what it contains is not to be seen by all.

Solid mother figure? firmly planted on terra firma...but surrounded with deep motherly emotions...

compassionate...confidante.....empathetic

Kate Warwick-Smith: The Queen of Cups Speaks: My throne is on the shifting sands of the shore. Shells are my emblem, opening an closing to the rhythm of my heart. I know my tides and follow their rhythms. My love is contained yet steady, forming a reservoir of compassion for others to be soothed by.
In my negative (RX?) aspect I become lost in the churning sea of emotions. Who am I. I feel powerless and victimized by the turbulent waters. I feel overwhelmed and see no way to help myself. I succumb and give myself to the mercy of others.

I like this quote...bringing in aspects of the ciborium...

Greer: Water of Water. Channels feelings, emotions, dreams, visions. She is the Muse, the Enchantress. She is psychic and deeply emotional, fluctuating like the moon in her emotions. She must be near water and reflects the unconscious in others. She is usually empathetic and understanding but can be moody and deceitful. Love of love.... Of course RXd....vamp, seductruss, hpersensitive, clinging, moody, smothering parent..
(again M. Greer)

Bunning...supports the loving, tenderhearted, intuitive, psychic and spritual woman.....moved by the beauty and tragedy of life...

I like these interpretations because of the Water of Water, a woman asking us to be aware of one's emotions and emotional climate.

From our elders of symbolism...what are the "symbols" on the ciborium? Pluto split ...half on each side? Fire and Water?

Kilted Kat

29-04-2006, 06:34

I see the queen of wands as the sexual one that could have sex with you one day and leave you the next I disagree.

As Water's water, The Queen of Cups could be the one who calculatingly searches for the right person for the job of inseminating her -someone very particular about what happens to her body and very clear intentions. She is in control of her emotions, hence the pyx she holdeth, which enshrineth the mysteries of the transubstantiation.

She is not the passionate Queen of Wands, who may sleep with the first person she sleeps with, or the Queen of Pentalces who chooses a sexual victim. She is the opposite of the Ice Princess of the (rev.) Queen of Swords.

Kilted Kat

29-04-2006, 06:34

************

Kilted Kat

29-04-2006, 06:35

I see the queen of wands as the sexual one that could have sex with you one day and leave you the next I disagree.

As Water's water, The Queen of Cups could be the one who calculatingly searches for the right person for the job of inseminating her -someone very particular about what happens to her body and very clear intentions. She is in control of her emotions, hence the pyx she holdeth, which enshrineth the mysteries of the transubstantiation.

She is not the passionate Queen of Wands, who may sleep with the first person she sleeps with, or the Queen of Pentacles may choose a sexual "victim." She is the opposite of the Ice Princess in the (rev.) Queen of Swords. She is a deep body of water.

cdabs

23-11-2006, 01:20

Hi! I just ran across this thread as I was trying to figure out what the little "fish-like" looking thing was on the bottom-right of the RWS Queen Of Cups card. I saw where "SeaPrism" had said (back in 2004):

"I see the little squiggly thing in the sand on the lower right corner of the card might be a fish, a dead one?! "

I, too, thought that (it was a fish), though it was tough to make out completely as a fish. In an odd way, it almost looked like a pirate's face to me (no kidding). I looked at my Radiant and Universal RWS decks and they MORE CLEARLY show this "thing" to be a small flower inside a conch shell (I believe). Check out this pic here:

http://www.digitarot.com/images/universal_waite/queen_of_cups.jpg

Also, check out the facial expressions of the two top "water nymphs." The Radiant and Original RWS decks show one of them with a scowling look and the other with a more positive or relaxed look.

This Queen ALWAYS reminds me of Princess Diana (looks like her, doesn't she?). Also...the cup looks like The Ark Of The Covenant from "Raiders Of The Lost Ark." This was said before by someone else in this thread. So...is this Queen harnessing the power/love/laws of God? It's within her hands...

Did you also notice that this Queen holds this cup much like the way the hand in the Ace of Cups is holding the cup (palm up)? All the others in the suit (holding cups) grip with the vertical/fist grip.

The "right" = action; the "left" = thought.

This Queen is cupping (palm-up) this cup in her RIGHT hand and touching it with her left (palm-down). I read somewhere where this Queen is about using intellect and love/compassion to create and "do." I totally see this.

Also...her cup is unique and unlike any of the other cups in the suit. She's an independent, creative, loving, compassionate person...and all she does, she does with love. She even sounds like Princess Diana (with all her charity work, etc.).

Mention was made of the pebbles at her feet (in this thread). They are smooth and round...as if "worn" (in a good way) by the ocean. Their once rough "stone" edges have been smoothed down..and they are not so hard and tough any more, but soft and pleasant to look at and touch.

I think this shows the positive effects of combining the water/intuition/love aspects with material/rational-thought/action....to produce a more well-rounded, neither hard,nor soft product...kind of a running theme in the Tarot: Balance.

Just my opinion.

Elnor

26-11-2006, 16:14

The chalice that the Queen holds is very similar to a monstrance; which were vessels used to display the consecrated host- often cathedrals would have a side chapel where it would be on the altar.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/jaenor363/ReliquaryMonstrance.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/jaenor363/MonstrancewithAngels.jpg

they often had angels on either side, with wings extended like the one in the card.

Now the thing I think interesting, (and surely Pamela Coleman Smith would have know this) is that only priests or bishops could touch the monstrance- and even then with their hands covered with a veil.
Therefore, a woman certainly could not be allowed to carry one; especially in her bare hands- not even a Queen!

I'm not sure what meaning this might have within the card- but it would be considered a holier vessel than the chalice... if cups represent the emotions, could it be that the Queen has contained, understood, and connected with her emotions on a more spiritual plane??

Just my musings- would be interested to know what anyone else thinks.

Elnor

Teheuti

28-11-2006, 16:27