ReadingTarot - a part of ethnoscience?

moderndayruth

Needless to say, i wasn't familiar with the term before, i've just picked it up from my book on Basics of philosophy of science (Authors are somebody Kohanovski and three others).

So, this would be from wiki, probably American school of thought (this and Russian schools of thought many times deffer in views and definitions). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnoscience

"Ethnoscience is a new term and study that came into anthropological theory in the 1960's. Often referred to as "indigenous knowledge," Ethnoscience introduces a perspective based on native perceptions. It is based on a complete etic perspective, which excludes all observations, interpretations and or any personal notions belonging to the ethnographer. The taxonomy and classification of indigenous systems, to name a few, used to categorize plants, animals, religion and life is adapted from a linguistic analysis. The concept of “Native Science” is also related to the understanding the role of the environment intertwined with the meaning humans place upon their lives. Understanding the language and the native people’s linguistic system is one method to understand a native people’s system of knowledge of organization. Not only is there categorization for things pertaining to nature and culture thought language, but more importantly and complex is the relationship between environment and culture. Ethnoscience looks at the intricacies of the connection between culture and its surrounding environment."

(I roughly translated the followinmg part from the Russian original : )
In the book i am studying (Russian school), ethnoscience , also called 'people's science' is body of knowledge that is non-scientific and non-rational, represented by sorcerers, healers, ESP practitioners, shamans, druids etc.
At its roots, people's science acted as ethnoscience and manifested itself as a phenomena of collective consciousness . In the era of domination of the classical science, it moved to periphery, away from center of official experimental and theoretical researches. As a rule, people's science exists in non-written form and is transmitted from the teacher to a pupil.
Sometimes, its possible do separate its condensate - such as incantations, omens, signs, rituals etc.
(So far so good, the closing sentence is scientific BS imo: )

Nevertheless that in people's science enormous delightfulness is seen, too often it is accused of unrealistic claiming to be in possession of truth.

Thoughts?

eta: as i am reading on, it gets more and more interesting, so i'll be posting more

moderndayruth

'Its obvious that many forms of non-scientific knowledge are older than knowledge, recognized as scientific, for example, astrology precedes astronomy, alchemy precedes chemistry.'

(Basics of the Philosophy of science. Kohanovski, Leshekevic, Matjash, Fathi.)

nisaba

<grin> I can see your enthusiasm. I haven't heard the jargon before, but I suppose I've experienced the form before, in reading academic work in Shamanism by educated shamans. I suppose it's looking analytically at something from within, rather than from outside.

Tarot is so deeply embedded in my life that I could never be an outsider - and never was even in the years all my decks were wrapped up, boxed up and hidden away. And yes, is is one of the things that can be the magic of people who have lost their ethnic roots and any native magic with it (like me).

Mi-Shell

Very interesting subject!
I was just recently interviewed by a lady that calls herself an ethno scientist. She wanted to know about my work and how it compares and contrasts with the First Nations Medicine men and Faith Keepers here in the area and how we all work together in spite of cultural differences......

In terms of reading Tarot I have to say, that although divination has always been an important part in the practice of my Siberian Elders, there of course were no cards. Sheep knuckles, entrails and drum-oracles were what my great grandmother used. My gran and also my dad used a shaman's mirror and a bronze dish with seeds - left outside over night and checked, what was left in the mornin - Same with a flour track oracle.....
My gypsy gran however used Tarot cards and a crystal ball.
But neither of them - or me for that matter - would have ever dared to claim to

moderndayruth said:
..... claiming to be in possession of truth.
Thoughts?

I feel, that only the Spirits may ever know ALL the truth(s) and nobody can possess it.

Scientists today however......????

With the cards a reader can help a person to un-cover and face THEIR truth of the given moment -
just as all other oracles do.

This leaves me to ponder, if the Tarot is the ethno-specific form of divination for "the Western World"
(for lack of a better term

)
and if Tarot now, with the help of the net and AT is conquering the world??

moderndayruth

nisaba said:
<grin> I can see your enthusiasm.

nisaba said:
I haven't heard the jargon before, but I suppose I've experienced the form before, in reading academic work in Shamanism by educated shamans. I suppose it's looking analytically at something from within, rather than from outside.

You know, what i realized is that Russian school of thought is far more receptive to the (what's traditionally considered) non-scientific methods, especially to the extra- sensory perception; its not based on this very book exclusively, but Russian scientist seem to me far more open than the Western school of though which mostly readily dismisses it all. I am quite tired now, but will interpret later on the part that is referring to 'paranormal' in the book - i must tell you it sounds even affirmative!

Mi-Shell said:
Very interesting subject!
I was just recently interviewed by a lady that calls herself an ethno scientist. She wanted to know about my work and how it compares and contrasts with the First Nations Medicine men and Faith Keepers here in the area and how we all work together in spite of cultural differences......

I'd love to read that!

Mi-Shell said:
I feel, that only the Spirits may ever know ALL the truth(s) and nobody can possess it.

Scientists today however......????

Haha, exactly!!!!

Mi-Shell said:
This leaves me to ponder, if the Tarot is the ethno-specific form of divination for "the Western World"
(for lack of a better term )
and if Tarot now, with the help of the net and AT is conquering the world??

Very interestingly, the highest goal of science is defined as 'predicting the future' (based on the analyses of the past and the present), i think we as readers generally score higher when it comes to accuracy...
Btw, i just had a debate with a respectable linguistics professor who equates speech to action, i disagreed and said that speech can be a prelude to action OR a substitute for action, but not the action itself. Its a long story - as she was giving an example of someone pushing an old woman standing in the line, the professor said the "act" of saying 'excuse me' would un-do the deliberately rude gesture - i said it wouldn't and that its a dangerous demagogy to teach so.
Also, she said we as humans were *obliged* to greet each other and say "thank you" and "sorry" - excuse me, that's social norm not an obligation, no?
(Let aside that i believe we are thought to be all polite in order to be manipulated easier and not question the effects of the given socialization.)
Anyway, at the end i was told to keep my opinion to myself and not to degenerate opinions of other students?! Goodness, we are speaking of PhD students, not of kindergarten?!

Mi-Shell

moderndayruth said:
Btw, i just had a debate with a respectable linguistics professor who equates speech to action, i disagreed and said that speech can be a prelude to action OR a substitute for action, but not the action itself. Its a long story - as she was giving an example of someone pushing an old woman standing in the line, the professor said the "act" of saying 'excuse me' would un-do the deliberately rude gesture - i said it wouldn't and that its a dangerous demagogy to teach so.
Also, she said we as humans were *obliged* to greet each other and say "thank you" and "sorry" - excuse me, that's social norm not an obligation, no?
(Let aside that i believe we are thought to be all polite in order to be manipulated easier and not question the effects of the given socialization.)
Anyway, at the end i was told to keep my opinion to myself and not to degenerate opinions of other students?! Goodness, we are speaking of PhD students, not of kindergarten?!

There is the widespread:
".... and at the Beginning of all, there was the word....."
In many Siberian myths the Spirits sang the world into being - a sacred chant -
The words of a therapist to her client are defined as actions....
The words of a shaman..... incantations, spells, prayers.....
The words of Anybody and Everyone work just the same....

With your statements you uncovered the darker side of words as actions....
And you defied the power of her words = her magic....
Soooo, she gets defensive and denies you the power of your words.....
The othere could hear them and think = take action.....
use words of their own......- powers of their own.....

moderndayruth

Mi-Shell said:
There is the widespread:
".... and at the Beginning of all, there was the word....."
In many Siberian myths the Spirits sang the world into being - a sacred chant -
The words of a therapist to her client are defined as actions....
The words of a shaman..... incantations, spells, prayers.....

I agree...

Mi-Shell said:
The words of Anybody and Everyone work just the same....

...but i think one needs to be capable of reaching special states of consciousness in order for her words to be imbued with creative powers.
Not that the 'ordinary speech' doesn't not have any impact on the reality - but in my experience for that impact to be seizable, it takes (much) more than that.

Mi-Shell said:
With your statements you uncovered the darker side of words as actions....
And you defied the power of her words = her magic....
Soooo, she gets defensive and denies you the power of your words.....
The othere could hear them and think = take action.....
use words of their own......- powers of their own.....

Haha, exactly and that might lead to a dangerous non-uniformity in thinking!