Pamela Colman Smith

greatdane

03-03-2011, 09:57

Saw this link and noted it said she was buried in a pauper's field. Just thinking how great it would be to find out where (if one even could) and somehow get TarotFolk together to get her a proper headstone at least. Just would seem she deserves at least that for all she has given to tarot and with all the TarotFolk around the world, think what a small amount it would take from even a small number of us to get her a decent headstone.....just a thought. From what I've read, no one seems to know exactly where she's buried. Just think she's deserves something and it's a shame her grave isn't even marked properly....

http://www.servingspirits.com/pamela-colman-smith.html

Aladdin

03-03-2011, 11:21

photokat

03-03-2011, 11:35

Good luck with your project, greatdane!

brightcrazystar

03-03-2011, 15:32

meh, a corpse is a corpse.

Personally, I would like to see her continual impact on the arts. They could call it the "Pamela Coleman Smith Award for Excellence in Visual Synthesis of Spiritual Truth." U.S. Games could prolly afford this and write it off.

I would never be eligible as an artist, but I think she deserves some real recognition in a field she devoted herself so strongly to.

teomat

03-03-2011, 20:28

I do very much agree with you.
The old county of Middlesex (middle south) in Anglo Saxon is now subsumed into the greater London area.
Pamela Colman-Smith might be burried anywhere from Ponders End to Ruislip.
Personally i would be pleased to offer a donation in memory of this lady who Willowfox on here, some time ago highly praised for original artistic imigary in the contemporary Tarot.
I actually live in the Middlesex area, and though I could conceivably visit every cemetary in the county, how likely is it that she is buried here? Did she actually die in Middlesex too (or had her burial here)? Anyone know?

gregory

03-03-2011, 20:40

I refer you to an earlier thread here (http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=28086).

greatdane

04-03-2011, 02:48

I didn't really expect some of the responses here.

When I read she was buried in a pauper's field, I didn't necessarily see that as someone who wanted that as privacy. My only thought was to show a final mark of respect and recognition. Being buried in an unmarked pauper's grave didn't really seem to do that. This thread is just about thoughts regarding a very special woman who had given much to our tarot world, and the world in general. The recent US Games set to honor her made me think that it might be nice to do something re a marker of any kind.

We all have a right to our own opinion and mine was just that I thought it would be a nice gesture to have some small marker with a few words of respect and recognition for all she has done for not just the tarot world, but the art world. But if someone knows for sure that her final wish was to be buried in an unmarked grave in a pauper's field, if there was something in a will she wrote that said that, then I would certainly respect her wishes.

I started this thread as a sign of respect and with the idea of doing something to honor her memory. I agree with the post about also having some type of recognition for her contribution to the art world. I think she was really an amazing woman whose work continues to help inspire and enlighten.

There will be those who agree or disagree about doing something like a marker, but surely most can understand my main idea was just borne out of respect for someone whose artwork is such an integral part of tarot for me.

Aladdin

04-03-2011, 11:20

Gregory,
thank you for that link, i didn't know that, possibly along with a few others. The local people pronounce the name of this little town as "Bood". Unfortunately never been there, one of the few places down here which has escaped me.

Cerulean

04-03-2011, 11:22

...every lovely, lively reading that has been ever done by you...and is being done with a close copy of her images is one of the nicest tributes--her art is alive in your hands and her images that inspire you..your reading to another is linking you to her, to be a storyteller as she was.

A creative shadowbox or a stone marker is a relic of earth on earth, and I can see this would feel certainly significant, more appropriate to some gentle hearts.

If you could write a tribute that would pay the respects that you would like...her inspiration to yourself... perhaps even in your own way, making some kind of marker, it might give some peaceable respite?

There are some websites dedicated to her work and helping others find such information about Pamela Colman Smith as an artist and writer...links in the Rider Waite Forum....I've even read or seen work by artists and writers who have presented in the past year or so with warm conversation or cheerful recognition of Pamela Colman Smith. Many in our own way are 'contributing' to keeping images, ideas, art and what we can find about her accessible to others in that area. Hope this posting helps to keep one in good cheer on the ideas you have...

Lillie

04-03-2011, 11:37

Stuart Kaplan wanted to put her a grave stone.

This is what he said about it.

Unfortunately, she died dead broke in 1951 without any assets. No one could pay for her burial so she was put into a pauper's grave in Cornwall, England. When I went there ten years ago to try to find her gravesite -- we were going to erect a tombstone -- we were told that if you were destitute, your grave was actually put on top of another person's grave and after twenty-five years there was no way to find out where she was actually buried. The irony is that if you take a look at all the Rider-Waite decks we published -- times each card, there's probably a half a billion or more images of hers that are floating around the world. And she got no benefit from it.

From this interview

http://www.lightworks.com/MonthlyAspectarian/1999/June/699-02.htm

greatdane

04-03-2011, 13:11

It still saddens me to think that someone who gave so much to the art world, and the tarot world in particular, should not have something more. I know it is not practical to feel this way if there is no way to find her final resting place, but I just think there should be SOMETHING somewhere, some marker or memorial near where she last lived, from her fans. Maybe if there was only a marker in the area she's buried....there are all kinds of plaques, markers, statues dedicated to people all over the world, not just where they happen to be buried. There are a lot of people who were never found, but that didn't mean they didn't deserve some type of memorial.

I know people can say her work lives on, she's been immortalized in some ways, but I think the woman deserves MORE, ESPECIALLY since there's no way to really find her final resting place. I would certainly donate to some type of small memorial or something like that. I think she is one of the most important influences in tarot through her art and one of the ones, if not the one, who got really the least out of it when talking recognition or money....at least until recently. With the Commemorative deck out, and the timing, I think a hundred years is long enough for her to wait to get more.....just my thoughts.

roppo

04-03-2011, 15:26

I've been commemorating PCS in my own fashion and this topic is really interesting one for me.

We all know it's very difficult to locate her burying place and I'm afraid simply we can't. Well then, how about a little blue plaque on the wall of a house or a building once PCS lived in? Those we often see on the London streets, for example, "Charles Dickens lived in this house from 1856-60" etc. Probably there is a legal regulation for it, but it would be great if we could manage to set PCS commemorating plates (with some drawings from RWS) on the walls of her related places.

Cerulean

05-03-2011, 02:24

I've been reading vintage reviews of her in Scribner's The Critic and she projected her lively caricatires seen on Roppo's site and delighted notes on her travels.artwork with stage personalities..nothing on tarot. Ironic but I am glad to have read and shared when I could my own appreciative attempts.

Only very recently have I heard or read more of her in academic publications in contexts with other historical partnerships. I mean within the past five years she has been remembered as an artist.

It will take awhile to register historic sites where she did her art.

Cerulean

I've been commemorating PCS in my own fashion and this topic is really interesting one for me.

We all know it's very difficult to locate her burying place and I'm afraid simply we can't. Well then, how about a little blue plaque on the wall of a house or a building once PCS lived in? Those we often see on the London streets, for example, "Charles Dickens lived in this house from 1856-60" etc. Probably there is a legal regulation for it, but it would be great if we could manage to set PCS commemorating plates (with some drawings from RWS) on the walls of her related places.

Lillie

05-03-2011, 02:30

I believe that one of these was the building she was living in when she died.
I assume that they were divided into flats then just as they are now, but I don't know for certain.

brightcrazystar

05-03-2011, 03:39

An oath she took at one point, reads

"and if I break this oath,...., may I die alone, impoverished, and be laid in a unknown grave with no stone as a marker."

This is exactly what she endured.

I am not calling her an oathbreaker////////////
The thing is an oath is broken in the ritual it is taken in. It is part of the masonic model of ritual and the reason is the liminal state of a mind turned against itself allows a clarity that is not reasoned - it is realized. The "dread penalty" is actually the reward if you actually get it. I think she attained the city of the pyramids and was left to ash and dust, whither not she did not care. But if her grave was her, it would be a SHRINE a mecca if you will, and she would be fettered here by that poison of the soul called "idol worship".

She gave her light to the world, she lived Alone, and she died old.

Practically, and in modern eyes, and even to her own ego, where all seek a common financial ground and a good living, her story is atrocious, and her end is not fair. It is easy to see she would be diagnosed with synesthesia, as would likely many of us here. But, beyond ego and this modern idea of success by portfolio, we can see clearly to the brilliance of a woman who took as her Motto: Quod tibi id alliis, Latin for "whatever you would have done to thee, do unto others." This woman's aspiration, spiritually, was the Golden Rule.

Her poem "Alone" speaks so much to the sorrow of the True Supernal Mother which reflects in the Mourning of Isis:

Alone and in the midst of men,
Alone 'mid hills and vallies fair;
Alone upon a ship at sea;
Alone - alone, and everywhere.

(I think of these as her life as markers easy to see in her art. Her illustration of Dracula at sea, her scenes of posh society, and her sweeping landscapes. Her youth, life, and her seniority. 5 alones is a pentagram of sorrow. We have an infinitely mobile and solitary force - the Pangenator of The Breath of Life.)

O many folk I see and know,
So kind they are I scarce can tell,
But now alone on land and sea,
In spite of all I'm left to dwell.

(2 of disks, better than ever put before or after. This is the manifestation of the force of the interplay of yin and yang. Supernal consciousness.)

In cities large -in country lane,
Around the world - 'tis all the same;
Across the sea from shore to shore.
Alone - alone, for evermore.

(This woman was in the sorrow of realization of "All is Sorrow". Magister Templi - entrance to the Third and Great Inner Order where none living can dwell. Where Enoch, Lao Tzu, Solomon, and Siddhartha all dwell - the legends and lore of our race. A place this woman saw with a clarity few possess.)

greatdane

05-03-2011, 04:11

is just to acknowledge her in some small way. It just seems fitting to have some small memorial, plaque, something, put up by her tarot fans, who I don't think I'm exaggerating, when I say we are legion! There are sooo many of us who enjoy her work daily.

I would be all for putting a plaque or small memorial or marker somewhere where she lived or loved to visit (perhaps there was a place she loved to go).

I know she doesn't "require" this, for me, it's more about me acknowledging what she has given to me, my own way of a small tribute to honor her.

If there are others who feel the same way, I don't see why we couldn't come up with something....

Blessings,
GD

brightcrazystar

05-03-2011, 04:45

There was a house she lived in as part of a artists collective. I forget name but that to me might be a suitable place for such a suitable marker, in my mind.

I agree commemoration is a good idea, and would contribute. I just think it should be modest and in her spirit. Please don't take my speculation as discouragement or diapproval.

LRichard

06-03-2011, 03:03

greatdane

06-03-2011, 04:07

You have both echoed my sentiments in so many ways. My goal is merely some small tribute as being an admirer of her work and feeling her memory certainly deserves some token of the respect many of us have for her. Whether a plaque or some gesture like that, doesn't really matter to me. It is the thought and the intention that I thought of to recognize her work that matters to me. And while I definitely agree many things are for the living, not the dead, I can't help but think she would have approved and enjoyed having some of us remember and honor her in this way. :-)

For me, it is more about the gesture, than the form it will take.

Blessings and thank you both for your comments. I think you understand where I am coming from with this.

GD

brightcrazystar

06-03-2011, 04:48

Memorials are for the living, not the dead. Abraham Lincoln is not around to appreciate (or despise) the Lincoln Memorial. It was erected in his memory, a reminder to us (the living) of his life, work, and ideals. I don't think it is appropriate to impose religious or metaphysical beliefs on such a mundane matter.

If PCS wished to be forgotten, she failed big-time. A memorial, simple or elaborate, cannot possibly do any harm. Her creative work has had a profound and extensive effect in the world and certainly warrants such recognition.

I strongly agree with this, but every time I see the washington monument, I think of how much that one self educated man did by being true to himself and how much better the world might be if that went to support those who do the same.

To leave one person who carries on in your spirit is greater than to remind the whole world of who you were if it changes nothing. This is why I would favor a foundation in lincolns name for self developed curriculum driven learning examples; people who seek to accredit themselves as he did. That would shake the boughs of this tree of instituted learning and indoctrinated but not digested data that is the fast food learning of today.

I would love to see an art school foundation, or one that represents what, aspiration, she practically deserved for her efforts in respect of the impact on western occultism, thought, literature and art. I feel this way about alot of people who suffered a same fate or worse.

greatdane

06-03-2011, 04:59

Passing someone's message along is the best commemoration of all. Inspiring others in someone's name as in an art school, what a great idea.

At this point, as a start, I was hoping just some modest, well, something. A plaque, something in good taste, just as a little honor from her fans.

But I love all ideas of ways to keep Pamela Colman Smith's contributions alive and to honor her memory in any way.

bhakti

06-03-2011, 05:01

There was a house she lived in as part of a artists collective. I forget name but that to me might be a suitable place for such a suitable marker, in my mind.

brightcrazystar,

Is the name of the house you are thinking of Smallhythe Place? It was a country home that Pamela is said to have visited often.

LRichard

06-03-2011, 05:43

.....To leave one person who carries on in your spirit is greater than to remind the whole world of who you were if it changes nothing.....
I agree 100%. However, merely being reminded of who someone was can inspire some people to attempt to pursue their legacy of excellence.

greatdane

06-03-2011, 05:57

that it wouldn't be a bad thing to commemorate her in some small way at least. Just talking for myself now obviously, but I really feel a need to do something because I am relatively new to tarot and love her artwork and find it inspiring. Well, and we both shared the planet for a brief time, not sure why that should make a difference, but for some reason, it seems to to me. I was born in Jan 1951 and she passed in September 1951.

LRichard

06-03-2011, 06:19

.....I was born in Jan 1951 and she passed in September 1951.
I was born in Apr 1938, so I shared the planet with her longer than you did. Neener-neener. :)

greatdane

06-03-2011, 07:50

Well, unless you met her, doesn't count! And I'm younger! Neener neener AHAHAAHAH

But it IS cool we both shared the planet with her for awhile, isn't it?

LRichard

06-03-2011, 09:20

[QUOTE=greatdane]Well, unless you met her, doesn't count! And I'm younger! Neener neener AHAHAAHAH [QUOTE]

Touché :)

gregory

06-03-2011, 19:37

I am in the UK (at the moment), I was born in 1944, and am far closer to her remaining vibes than either of you. :P

And - do we not have a MASSIVE memorial already - in her cards ? How many people have a worldwide memorial ? The kind of people who would see a plaque probably wouldn't know who or why; they'd take a photo, and go home to look at their pix to see where they'd been on vacation ! - we look at her cards and we know all that and we care.

LRichard

07-03-2011, 08:14

I am in the UK (at the moment), I was born in 1944, and am far closer to her remaining vibes than either of you. :P.....I suppose in the UK they say nyah-nyah instead of neener-neener. Anyhow, for what it's worth, the US won the war with England over the tea tax. :P

gregory

07-03-2011, 20:11

I would not SINK to nyah nyah. And I prefer coffee :) We just wanted to annoy you about the tea.

(You do know I also have, and prefer, Canadian nationality, though. You are within reach half the time ! Hide the tea. And maybe the coffee too...)

LRichard

08-03-2011, 19:43

.....(You do know I also have, and prefer, Canadian nationality, though.....
This is getting off topic, but I'll try to slip this one in past the Moderator. I was in Toronto a few years ago, and it was absolutely delightful compared to most of the dense population cesspools here in the States.

I was there for a British Brass Band competition. I was the solo tenor horn player in a very good band, but our flugelhorn player snoozed off and missed an entrance during our contest performance and, to make a long story short, caused us to come in last place. :(

Debra

08-03-2011, 20:48

I've been looking up different types of common graves in Britain. This site has different categories: http://beckettstreetcemetery.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=1

There's a scandal in Britain over infants poorly buried. Comes up if you google "pauper's grave."

Here's what the site says about 19th century private graves.

PRIVATE GRAVE
A plot of ground purchased by an person who then had the burial rights to the grave dug in it, confirmed by a parchment certificate or 'grave paper', a duplicate of which was kept by the Burial Grounds Committee. Separate fees would be paid for the plot, for the making of the grave (sometimes as a brick-lined vault), for each burial in it, and for the right to erect a headstone or other monument. Apparently there was no time limit on the right of the owner or his family to the grave; they could expect to lie there for all time. Some graves were well cared for, usually by the relatives of those buried in them. Other families paid a sum of £10 or so to ensure that the cemetery authority would tend the grave for evermore; this was called a 'perpetuity', but these agreements are now sadly no longer honoured.

I was the solo tenor horn player in a very good band, but our flugelhorn player snoozed off and missed an entrance during our contest performance and, to make a long story short, caused us to come in last place. :(

This is a once-in-a-lifetime sentence and I'm glad I lived to see it.

gregory

08-03-2011, 21:00

Cerulean

09-03-2011, 00:28

on a birth or memorial day...that would be alive.

Or how about a reading fot the project you envision amd what your part would be? We could individually do that.

I still am gathering written accounts of her as an artist from free period sources, for instance, that people can use to form their tributes. I am using Roppo`s website as a guide. I am very grateful he allowed his items to be used in the U.S. Games set.

greatdane

09-03-2011, 10:54

Lovely ideas, Cerulean!

OK, I get it re the pauper's graves, but oh wow...

GD