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jfiallo0982
26-04-2011, 03:51
Hello everyone.
I would like some help determining something.
Is there any planetary position that would be best for a divorce?
If such position exists, please let me know, Im a little desperate here,
Thanks.

Ronia
26-04-2011, 04:03
I'm not an astrologer but once I was told my Moon/Saturn conjunction in the 7th could (not necessarily but could) mean divorce and I'm currently divorced. Mostly the Moon in the 7th actually although mine is in Cancer, her strongest position.

jfiallo0982
26-04-2011, 04:23
The moon is in Aquarius in the 7th house today, but is trine saturn.
Saturn is my dominant planet and right now he is opposite every other planet. I guess that can explain my mood.

Thanks Ronia for your reply.

Ronia
26-04-2011, 09:51
Ah, I don't know if it's true about transits, I was talking about natal Moon and still, I doubt all people with Moon in the 7th get divorced. :) Saturn is opposing my all too, except from the Moon, Sun and Pluto. He is my chart ruler, I'm Capricorn rising. And he's been going forward and backward in my 8th house which can also relate to the matter.

ChillaB
26-04-2011, 10:26
Hello everyone.
I would like some help determining something.
Is there any planetary position that would be best for a divorce?
If such position exists, please let me know, Im a little desperate here,
Thanks.

If the sign on the 7th house cusp is double bodied (Gemini, Pisces, Sagittarius) probability is high, that the person will have more than one marriage. Also it's same, if the ruler of the 7th house is in double body sign.

Upsets in marriages could appear for couple reasons, and the most sensitive point about relationships in one's chart is the Sun/Moon midpoint -- if this point is activated by transit, arcs or progressions :
Saturn - there is 'coldness' in relationship, struggle, weakened system, illness;
if Uranus triggers this midpoint - relationship might be upset via intensification of independence needs - ;
if Pluto - there are power struggles in relationships, which if not handled might end up in separation.
if Neptune - misunderstandings, deception or discontent in relationship could be up.


there is a lot more.... I mentioned just a few.

jfiallo0982
26-04-2011, 11:59
In my natal chart Saturn is in Libra in the 7th house.
ChillaB, I would say there's a bit of all that going on. Some things have been going on for a while, I just realized now, like when something is always there and one day you notice it.
I also have Jupiter and Pluto in the 7th house, which is shared by Libra and Scorpio. Throw Ceres in there too, to make it spicy. Ah, and they're all retrograde.

Ronia
26-04-2011, 13:52
But none of the above is true for me, for example. My Moon is in its own sign, the sign is so family oriented, and there was no transit to negatively affect the Sun/Moon midpoint at the time I got separated (which is legally the beginning of divorce). In general, I don't think astrology can help much in this case because such a decision is usually a result of long term problems. It means there have been numerous transits while the marriage has been going bad. There is no one thing, in my opinion. Besides, a divorce doesn't necessarily mean there will be another marriage. ;) I've been exploring this particular issue a lot through my divorce as I was curious to see if there was a sign. Truth is, if one wants to see it, they will surely find it. But if there is no hint of what's coming, I doubt it. It's a bit like those who explore lottery winners' charts and say "yeah, look he had this and this" but then admit they couldn't foresee it. :)

Bernice
26-04-2011, 18:24
Hello everyone.
I would like some help determining something.
Is there any planetary position that would be best for a divorce?
If such position exists, please let me know, Im a little desperate here,
Thanks. Best for divorce... Sounds like you want an Electional Chart - for deciding the optimum time for an undertaking.


Bee :)

jfiallo0982
27-04-2011, 00:42
Best for divorce... Sounds like you want an Electional Chart - for deciding the optimum time for an undertaking.


Bee :)

Yes Bernice, you're exactly on the spot. Truth be told I already made the decision to separate, I would like a time that would be more beneficial for me, if such thing exists. I spoke to my husband about this but I guess he doesn't believe Im going to go thru with it.

Minderwiz
27-04-2011, 02:42
Very perceptive of Bee, the same idea went through my mind too!

There's a clear difference between the chances of a divorce and actively pursuing one. ChllaB's post is concerned with the former and much of the discussion surrounds that.

However for an election chart, the situation is totally different. Divorce is a legal process, and you need an election chart which maximises your chance of 'winning' the outcome. The issue of Astrological significators of divorce is moot, as you have already decided on that. The issue is the relative strength of you (ruler of the Ascendant in the election chart) and Him (ruler of the seventh in the election chart - not because he is your partner but because he is your opponent) and the relationship to the legal process - in this case the tenth, which signifies Judges and legal outcomes. Preferably your significator (the Ascendant ruler) should be full of essential AND accidental dignity and be well positioned in respect of the ruler of the tenth (the Judge and legal process).

Essential dignities would be rulership, exaltation, triplicity in that order

Accidental dignities show the ability to exercise that strength, and would include angularity. swift in motion, direct, in favourable aspect with Venus and/or Jupiter (assuming that they are not debilitated) and free from aspects from the malefics.

Lord 7 should preferably have all the opposite qualities, being essentially and accidentally debilitated and in a poor aspect or no aspect to the Judge/legal process.

However, there are always practical limitations to acheving such things. For example the favourable chart might be for 4 am or on a Sunday, both of which prevent immediate commencement of legal proceedings. In practice you are looking for a situation where your significator is as strong as possible (possible being times that can be used to initiate action) compared to his significator.

You also need to look at the lawyer's strength too. Your lawyer is Lord 2 his lawyer is lord 8. If you can't debilitate him, try debilitating his lawyer, and giving yours dignity. Finally the decision is fourth House and you want a Lord 4 in a good aspect to your significator. Decision here is not so much the outcome, which will of course be divorce but the settlement and how favourable it is to you as opposed to him.

This is worth considering for any legal proceedings, short of divorce, which apportion possessions or custody of children, just as much as for divorce proper.

As a comment on the previous discussions about Astrological signification of divorce, I'd simply add that marriage is a two way process, and we really should consider both parties, plus the interaction of the two natal charts, any directions, progressions/profections, solar returns etc. You also have to place a lot of emphasis on the social mores - is divorce something which is socially acceptable, easy or dificult to obtain, easy or difficult for wives rather than husbands, etc. In some societies divorce is not acceptable, or is easier for men rather than women. What we will have is a situation of people living together, though not liking the arrangement. Some couples may stay together for the sake of children, or separate but not undertake any legal proceedings at all - i.e. live separate lives, but not be legally separated.

ChllaB puts forward a good list of possible indicators of second marriages, though a first marriage here does not have to end in divorce - one partner may die and the other eventually remarry.

You can't really look at a natal chart on it's own and conclude there will be a divorce. What you might identify is that the person may have difficulty with relationships.

jfiallo0982
27-04-2011, 04:27
Very perceptive of Bee, the same idea went through my mind too!

There's a clear difference between the chances of a divorce and actively pursuing one. ChllaB's post is concerned with the former and much of the discussion surrounds that.

However for an election chart, the situation is totally different. Divorce is a legal process, and you need an election chart which maximises your chance of 'winning' the outcome. The issue of Astrological significators of divorce is moot, as you have already decided on that. The issue is the relative strength of you (ruler of the Ascendant in the election chart) and Him (ruler of the seventh in the election chart - not because he is your partner but because he is your opponent) and the relationship to the legal process - in this case the tenth, which signifies Judges and legal outcomes. Preferably your significator (the Ascendant ruler) should be full of essential AND accidental dignity and be well positioned in respect of the ruler of the tenth (the Judge and legal process).

Essential dignities would be rulership, exaltation, triplicity in that order

Accidental dignities show the ability to exercise that strength, and would include angularity. swift in motion, direct, in favourable aspect with Venus and/or Jupiter (assuming that they are not debilitated) and free from aspects from the malefics.

Lord 7 should preferably have all the opposite qualities, being essentially and accidentally debilitated and in a poor aspect or no aspect to the Judge/legal process.

However, there are always practical limitations to acheving such things. For example the favourable chart might be for 4 am or on a Sunday, both of which prevent immediate commencement of legal proceedings. In practice you are looking for a situation where your significator is as strong as possible (possible being times that can be used to initiate action) compared to his significator.

You also need to look at the lawyer's strength too. Your lawyer is Lord 2 his lawyer is lord 8. If you can't debilitate him, try debilitating his lawyer, and giving yours dignity. Finally the decision is fourth House and you want a Lord 4 in a good aspect to your significator. Decision here is not so much the outcome, which will of course be divorce but the settlement and how favourable it is to you as opposed to him.

This is worth considering for any legal proceedings, short of divorce, which apportion possessions or custody of children, just as much as for divorce proper.

As a comment on the previous discussions about Astrological signification of divorce, I'd simply add that marriage is a two way process, and we really should consider both parties, plus the interaction of the two natal charts, any directions, progressions/profections, solar returns etc. You also have to place a lot of emphasis on the social mores - is divorce something which is socially acceptable, easy or dificult to obtain, easy or difficult for wives rather than husbands, etc. In some societies divorce is not acceptable, or is easier for men rather than women. What we will have is a situation of people living together, though not liking the arrangement. Some couples may stay together for the sake of children, or separate but not undertake any legal proceedings at all - i.e. live separate lives, but not be legally separated.

ChllaB puts forward a good list of possible indicators of second marriages, though a first marriage here does not have to end in divorce - one partner may die and the other eventually remarry.

You can't really look at a natal chart on it's own and conclude there will be a divorce. What you might identify is that the person may have difficulty with relationships.
I'll take all this tonight after school and give it a try. I've never done one of this charts, but Im going to learn.
Thank you Minderwiz.

Minderwiz
27-04-2011, 05:02
I'll take all this tonight after school and give it a try. I've never done one of this charts, but Im going to learn.
Thank you Minderwiz.

OK as a start you need to think of possible time scales - do you need to do this quickly or can you wait one or two months before commencing legal proceedings (moving out can be sooner).

At the moment:

Mars is in Aries - a strong start but perhaps not good for a female significator.

Venus is in Aries - in detriment, so not good to initiate now but in a few weeks, she's in Taurus and that would be a good position. However it leaves Mars as his significator and that would still be in Aries, so you could wait a little while till Mars moves into Taurus too and will be ruled by Venus - a good situation - that would give you a period between 15 May and 9 June.

There are of course other conditions that you might well want to impose but that gives you some idea of that timescale. If you want to leave it longer, then you could wait for Mercury to move into Gemini, or Saturn to stop being retrograde (Saturn is in Libra where it is exalted)

Please bear in mind that you are very unlikely to get a 'perfect' chart but you might well get one that is favourable, within the time period that you want.

jfiallo0982
27-04-2011, 05:13
OK as a start you need to think of possible time scales - do you need to do this quickly or can you wait one or two months before commencing legal proceedings (moving out can be sooner).

At the moment:

Mars is in Aries - a strong start but perhaps not good for a female significator.

Venus is in Aries - in detriment, so not good to initiate now but in a few weeks, she's in Taurus and that would be a good position. However it leaves Mars as his significator and that would still be in Aries, so you could wait a little while till Mars moves into Taurus too and will be ruled by Venus - a good situation - that would give you a period between 15 May and 9 June.

There are of course other conditions that you might well want to impose but that gives you some idea of that timescale. If you want to leave it longer, then you could wait for Mercury to move into Gemini, or Saturn to stop being retrograde (Saturn is in Libra where it is exalted)

Please bear in mind that you are very unlikely to get a 'perfect' chart but you might well get one that is favourable, within the time period that you want.
Ok. my plans go a bit further than that. I dont want to rush things either cause is more convenient for me to part in amicable terms. I am actually thinking in June, cause my lease expires then. He is a very family oriented man so I know the kids are going to be an issue, cause he knows I'll go out of state. I have to be smart about that.
Thank you everybody for your response.

ChillaB
28-04-2011, 03:55
But none of the above is true for me, for example. My Moon is in its own sign, the sign is so family oriented, and there was no transit to negatively affect the Sun/Moon midpoint at the time I got separated (which is legally the beginning of divorce). In general, I don't think astrology can help much in this case because such a decision is usually a result of long term problems. It means there have been numerous transits while the marriage has been going bad. There is no one thing, in my opinion. Besides, a divorce doesn't necessarily mean there will be another marriage. ;) I've been exploring this particular issue a lot through my divorce as I was curious to see if there was a sign. Truth is, if one wants to see it, they will surely find it. But if there is no hint of what's coming, I doubt it. It's a bit like those who explore lottery winners' charts and say "yeah, look he had this and this" but then admit they couldn't foresee it. :)

Ronia,

Yes, Moon is STRONG in Cancer - and WHAT DOES IT MEAN??? That it's strongest in fluctuating, changing moods, ups-downs, waxing-waning like on race - isn't it? Since Moon changes shapes every day - just look at the sky on her - that the 'STRONG' for the Moon being in Cancer -- yes, family, nurturing is all nice, but who will nurture the person who 'owns' the Moon in Cancer?

Also, you mentioned there were no transits to negatively aspect the Sun/Moon. and you've got separated.

WHEN DOES DIVORCE REALLY START???? -- at the time of separation??? at the time of first marital fight? at the time of marriage?? at the time exchanging the vows in front of witnesses? at the time of engagement? at the moment when two people meet each other for the first time? We need to thing and dig deeper, not just for the 'TIME, WHEN YOU GOT SEPARATED' -- is it REALLY the correct time when the 'divorce' starts?


Divorce does not necessarily mean there will be another marriage --- marriage is just a legal statement, but it states the chance there will be partnership formed other ways, or meeting others who will have an impact on the person's life.

chillab

Ronia
28-04-2011, 06:16
The Moon in the 7th house in Cancer is an indicator of home based/oriented, serious relationship and more so conjunct Saturn who provides serious attitude and it's proven as I rarely have a relationship lasting less than five years, at least. It's always moody, the Moon, of course. That's all I'm saying. It's not enough to have any placement or two to define if anyone is prone to get divorced. And, yes, of course, the divorce doesn't start at an exact date but it also diminishes the points you made because it doesn't really matter what aspects will be there on anyone's marriage day (mine were beautiful). There is a positive side in any experience thus any positive aspects may very well reflect this future outcome, children, for example, or higher social status, or better financial condition, etc. People benefit from their marriages or divorces in different ways. But I do believe there is no way to predict a divorce. To predict difficulties and rough patches, yes. But anything more than that is our free will and choices we make. Nothing is written in stone, that's what I'm saying.