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TractJM
03-06-2011, 00:26
I casted a SR chart for myself this week; and I had a few questions. I've gone over my sun, moon, ascendant and looked at ym houses and their rulers (and where the rulers are)..I even paired it to my natal chart.

My question is;

How similar to a natal/progressed chart are the transits/house rulers/interactions between planets and objects? I.E., I have ascendant conjunct venus (1 degree), as well as progressed moon conjunct..something else, I forget what. I also have my ascendant bringing forward my natal 11th house. Can I use the same ideas behind the regular charts to cast the effects?

Minderwiz
03-06-2011, 07:56
There are several approaches to dealing with SR charts - I'm sure Dave will give you a good introduction to his approach using precession corrected charts.

For the moment I'll make some general observations, which I hope will help.

Firstly you cannot treat an SR chart as a completely independant chart which can be read in isolation. You HAVE to read it in the context of your natal chart, on it's own an SR chart is of limited or even little value.

Secondly it IS a transit chart in it's own right, It's 'speciality' lies in the fact that it is the transits at the moment that the transiting Sun conjoins your natal Sun exactly. Therefore further transits to the SR chart are of dubious value, though I know some Astrologers will do those.

Thirdly Planets that are angular in an SR chart tend to be the most important planets in the chart. They should be considered not only in terms of what they represent in the SR chart, but also what they represent in your natal chart. - represent here would be taken in terms of their placement by house and by rulership of houses - plus any aspects they make.

Traditional approaches tended to concentrate on the similarities or differences between the SR chart and natal chart - the more similar the better. A traditional approach would also look at the condition of the SR Ascendant ruler, as this is the Lord of the Year, it it is in bad condition, that would not be a good sign for the year, especially if it were combust (within 8.5 degrees of the Sun). The aspects between the signs on the SR Ascendant and the natal Ascendant would be considered - if the aspect is square or opposition that is not a good indicator for the year ahead, trine or sextile is much better and conjunction (same sign on both Ascendants) would be best.

The House position of the Sun in the SR chart would also be considered and the position and condition of the Moon. The Moon is ALWAYS of prime importance in a chart, as it is seen as mediating between Mankind on Earth and the other planets which are placed much further away. The Moon in it's own sign and angular would be a good indicator for the year.

Also check for any squares or oppositions between Mars and Saturn (both SR and natal) to the SR Ascendant. These are not good signs. Trines or Sextiles from Venus or Jupiter (again natal and SR) are good indicators.

Lastly (for the moment) There are also issues about the extent to which the SR can be progressed - that is predictions can be derived from it for the days, weeks or months of the year ahead. Dave has a very good sysem for deriving daily predictions. Other approaches include the use of Lunar return charts (which can be derived for the 'months' ahead)

Before attempting any progression of the SR chart you should be sure you have an understanding of the SR chart and it's indications for the year ahead as a whole, so don't worry too much about deriving daily or monthly predictions till you're happy with the general principles.

TractJM
03-06-2011, 10:50
There are several approaches to dealing with SR charts - I'm sure Dave will give you a good introduction to his approach using precession corrected charts.

For the moment I'll make some general observations, which I hope will help.

Firstly you cannot treat an SR chart as a completely independant chart which can be read in isolation. You HAVE to read it in the context of your natal chart, on it's own an SR chart is of limited or even little value.

Secondly it IS a transit chart in it's own right, It's 'speciality' lies in the fact that it is the transits at the moment that the transiting Sun conjoins your natal Sun exactly. Therefore further transits to the SR chart are of dubious value, though I know some Astrologers will do those.

Thirdly Planets that are angular in an SR chart tend to be the most important planets in the chart. They should be considered not only in terms of what they represent in the SR chart, but also what they represent in your natal chart. - represent here would be taken in terms of their placement by house and by rulership of houses - plus any aspects they make.

Thank you, I understand more clearly now - I kept looking at the chart on its own (bad advice from elsewhere) and only slightly at the natal. It is a little intimidating but I love learning.

Traditional approaches tended to concentrate on the similarities or differences between the SR chart and natal chart - the more similar the better. A traditional approach would also look at the condition of the SR Ascendant ruler, as this is the Lord of the Year, it it is in bad condition, that would not be a good sign for the year, especially if it were combust (within 8.5 degrees of the Sun). The aspects between the signs on the SR Ascendant and the natal Ascendant would be considered - if the aspect is square or opposition that is not a good indicator for the year ahead, trine or sextile is much better and conjunction (same sign on both Ascendants) would be best.

The House position of the Sun in the SR chart would also be considered and the position and condition of the Moon. The Moon is ALWAYS of prime importance in a chart, as it is seen as mediating between Mankind on Earth and the other planets which are placed much further away. The Moon in it's own sign and angular would be a good indicator for the year.


Venus is not combust; it is also sitting in the first house in Taurus with my ascendent. However, Natal Venus is conjunct my SR Venus and Mars. I appear to have no aspect between my ascendants (natal is at 29* Cancer, Solar Return at 21* Taurus) However, my Moon is in Cancer at the SR, in my natal it's at 29* Leo. Both moons are in the 2nd house. The Sun is also in the 1st house on my SR, but 11th house on my natal. The SR moon however is square to SR Saturn and Uranus, opposing my NATAL saturn and uranus - natal moon is trine SR jupiter. SR moon is conjunct natal mercury/mars, sextile itself and trine pluto.

Soooo, I would tkae the initial stance of my moon being in its home sign (as well as mercury being in gemini) and the ascendant ruler being also in its home sign, as a good omen - though I am not sure if both moons transiting the same house at this time is relevant. The hard aspects concern me but being that they're on the SR transit, and I have mostly soft transits between natal and SR, I think this is generally favourable, though the opposition to saturn and uranus confuses me. I would say that the hard aspect to natal saturn and uranus suggests a pretty vigorous shake up and shift in my emotions and mental perspective, with my soft aspects making the transition easier/assisted.

I have complete respect and appreciation for the people who have been able to learn, memorize and study the intricacies of this in their lifetimes. I need to focus on one thing and go from there.

Also check for any squares or oppositions between Mars and Saturn (both SR and natal) to the SR Ascendant. These are not good signs. Trines or Sextiles from Venus or Jupiter (again natal and SR) are good indicators.

No hard aspects to the SR ascendant; natal ascendant is square jupiter but no trines or sextiles.

Lastly (for the moment) There are also issues about the extent to which the SR can be progressed - that is predictions can be derived from it for the days, weeks or months of the year ahead. Dave has a very good sysem for deriving daily predictions. Other approaches include the use of Lunar return charts (which can be derived for the 'months' ahead)

Before attempting any progression of the SR chart you should be sure you have an understanding of the SR chart and it's indications for the year ahead as a whole, so don't worry too much about deriving daily or monthly predictions till you're happy with the general principles.

Well, considering I am barely scratching a few aspects and I am still befuddling myself, I am definitely content focusing on general principles and understanding them further.

Thank you!

dadsnook2000
05-06-2011, 12:49
As Minderwiz noted, you cannot treat a solar return chart as a natal chart in terms of how you read it. And, it is not an independant chart. In fact, it is a cyclic chart whose cycle starts with the natal chart. Let me explain this as a basis for talking further about solar returns.

Each solar return chart has an MC position that is about 90 degrees and 3 signs further ahead in the zodiac than the previous solar return chart. The chart's Sun position shifts clockwise about 3 houses each year. The fact that these changes are consistent and regular marks these charts as having a cyclic relationship. If we trace these consistent changes backwards, we arrive back at the natal chart.

Because solar returns are cyclic charts we need to pay special attention to the angles of these charts. We do this with all cyclic charts. Whether we use circular charts to depict a cycle or a sine wave diagram to depict a chart, the angles of the chart -- or the peaks and valleys of the sine wave diagram -- are where the changes take place.

So, when looking at a solar return, consider the following:

** Give great importance to any planet that is close to an angle. Assign less importance, as a general rule, to any planet that is remote from an angle.

** Consider the meaning of the angle involved. The Ascendant is where you live, act, react, have an attitude. The Descendant is where you interact, find those you like or don't like. The MC is where you publically express your goals, hang your reputation. The IC is where you change things and set off in new directions.

** When a transiting planet is at an angle, look for the natal planet's aspect groupings and how that grouping typically plays out in your life. What you can expect from this solar return will be related to how the natal planet is typically experienced.

** When a natal planet is at an angle, look to where its transiting version is. That will give you a clue as to the "house expression" is likely to play out.

** Some solar returns may show a natal chart angle at or near a solar return angle. You need to blend the meanings of the natal angle and solar return angle in terms of their meanings.

This is enough for now. Have fun with your solar returns. AND, there is for me one important rule to follow if you want me to comment on your solar return chart: don't give me the chart, just give me the natal data and the year of the solar return. I like to cast my own charts. Dave

TractJM
05-06-2011, 13:29
As Minderwiz noted, you cannot treat a solar return chart as a natal chart in terms of how you read it. And, it is not an independant chart. In fact, it is a cyclic chart whose cycle starts with the natal chart. Let me explain this as a basis for talking further about solar returns.

Each solar return chart has an MC position that is about 90 degrees and 3 signs further ahead in the zodiac than the previous solar return chart. The chart's Sun position shifts clockwise about 3 houses each year. The fact that these changes are consistent and regular marks these charts as having a cyclic relationship. If we trace these consistent changes backwards, we arrive back at the natal chart.

Because solar returns are cyclic charts we need to pay special attention to the angles of these charts. We do this with all cyclic charts. Whether we use circular charts to depict a cycle or a sine wave diagram to depict a chart, the angles of the chart -- or the peaks and valleys of the sine wave diagram -- are where the changes take place.

So, when looking at a solar return, consider the following:

** Give great importance to any planet that is close to an angle. Assign less importance, as a general rule, to any planet that is remote from an angle.

** Consider the meaning of the angle involved. The Ascendant is where you live, act, react, have an attitude. The Descendant is where you interact, find those you like or don't like. The MC is where you publically express your goals, hang your reputation. The IC is where you change things and set off in new directions.

** When a transiting planet is at an angle, look for the natal planet's aspect groupings and how that grouping typically plays out in your life. What you can expect from this solar return will be related to how the natal planet is typically experienced.

** When a natal planet is at an angle, look to where its transiting version is. That will give you a clue as to the "house expression" is likely to play out.

** Some solar returns may show a natal chart angle at or near a solar return angle. You need to blend the meanings of the natal angle and solar return angle in terms of their meanings.

This is enough for now. Have fun with your solar returns. AND, there is for me one important rule to follow if you want me to comment on your solar return chart: don't give me the chart, just give me the natal data and the year of the solar return. I like to cast my own charts. Dave

I'll consider this and study my chart to put your advice into perspective.

I'm doing two charts; I was born in Calgary, AB at 9:09 A.M. on June 3, 1987...so I'm studying mine out of curiosity; however I am also studying so I can do my best friend's chart for her birthday as her chart is...very complicated.

*Is off to compare my chart and re-assess*

dadsnook2000
09-08-2011, 12:56
The August issue of ISAR's (International Society of Astrological Research) International Astrologer contains an article by myself, Dave Monroe, on how tropical astrologers can borrow sidereal tools. In this article several chart types are used; the precession corrected Tropical solar return, the daily progressed angles (Cyril Fagan's MC-based progression method) chart, the daily solar quotidian (Cyril Fagan's Sun-based progression method) chart, and the kinetic solar return (a solar return for the secondary-progressed Sun position).

These charts are used to follow the final years and days of Alan Turing, the brilliant English mathematician responsible for breaking the Enigma Code of the German High Command during World War 2. Turing was recently honored by the British PM in 2009 and a statue errected in his memory.

The ISAR journal can probably be borrowed from a local astrological organization. While the methods covered may be more advanced for some Forum members, others will find the subject of precession-corrected cyclic charts interesting. Those interested in such practices are welcome to review my blog site, http://www.ninthhouse.wordpress.com where I am currently starting a review of Gloria Steinem, the US feminist activist and writer. Dave

Minderwiz
09-08-2011, 22:48
I'd urge members who can get hold of this issue to read Dave's article.

Dave uses different methods from me but I've always been impressed by the way he works and the structured approach he employs. There is (and I guess always has been) a lot of dross around in Astrology books but I've always enjoyed watching Dave at work, it's a good master class in how to do Astrology.

I find his methods very interesting, even within a traditional approach. The issue of precession correction is a fascinating one. I know a number of current Astrologers who follow a traditional approach have questioned whether the use of precession correction or the sidereal zodiac, is not compatible with the tradition as there's no evidence of it's use historically.

However it's clear that the Greeks were aware of precession - they moved the point of the Vernal Equinox from around 10 degrees Aries to around 4 degrees Aries over the period of Greek and Hellenistic Astrology, so personally I don't see a problem with considering its continuing impact.

I have had the chance of a preview of Dave's forthcoming book and I've tried looking at one of the case studies he used but using a traditional approach and found that the his predictions and mine were largely in line with each other - his predictions work and can be verified. For someone wanting a predictive method within a modern context, they could do an awful lot worse than try his approach.