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PathWalker
16-06-2011, 03:27
I'm not very technical, so I apologise if I've understood this wrongly - but the links to facebook and so forth - does this mean that someone can link a thread into facebook, with all comments/discussion, even though I don't have a facebook account and wouldn't want to?

I know that when I write in the open part of the forum, it could be read by anyone, if they bothered to come and find it - but this would shove it in the face of people on facebook, without my knowledge or consent?

Is that the gist of it?

If so, is there a way of blocking my posts from being transferred? I don't want my views and writing on facebook, thanks very much :(

Back to the quiet corner for me...

Aerin
16-06-2011, 03:45
I thought it just posted a link to the thread, not the contents of the thread.

WalesWoman
16-06-2011, 03:46
This is a very good question. I do have a facebook account, and "like" or joined FB Aeclectic, but was also wondering about privacy issues having posts or threads shared on Facebook. Does this mean being a member gives implicit permission to have threads shared? I don't know if this is a good idea, I post here because it's a place to talk about tarot... I suppose facebook is as well, but I don't really talk about tarot on facebook, that's not what I have it for.

I have often wished for a "like" button, when I've read replies I really liked but had nothing to offer on the subject.

Wendywu
16-06-2011, 03:47
Yes - it puts a link on your wall. (I had a go, but cancelled before it posted the link - just wanted to see what happened). It doesn't put the thread up, just the link.

The crowned one
16-06-2011, 03:54
And that means people can link my posts( my words) here without my permission if I have posted in a thread they linked, is this correct?

Moonbow
16-06-2011, 03:55
This is a concern for me too. See this thread in Chat if you are a subscriber:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=158989

Most relevant is from post 51.

Oink
16-06-2011, 03:55
I absolutely despise this "feature". It's not because I don't understand what it does. It makes it easier to do something that was already very possible - let someone post a link on their wall to any thread in any of the public forums.

The fact that something is legal and possible doesn't imply that it is a considerate thing to do or should be encouraged. The whole thing makes me queasy, and if I get a vote in the matter at all (not assuming that I do, but if...) I'd toss that "feature" back into the tech scrap heap. Grrr!

yirabeth
16-06-2011, 04:04
This is not a feature I like or would support in any way... and it makes me very leery of posting in any non-subscriber threads....

kaleanna
16-06-2011, 04:05
I'm not very technical, so I apologise if I've understood this wrongly - but the links to facebook and so forth - does this mean that someone can link a thread into facebook, with all comments/discussion, even though I don't have a facebook account and wouldn't want to?

I know that when I write in the open part of the forum, it could be read by anyone, if they bothered to come and find it - but this would shove it in the face of people on facebook, without my knowledge or consent?

Is that the gist of it?

If so, is there a way of blocking my posts from being transferred? I don't want my views and writing on facebook, thanks very much :(



PW I totally agree with you on this. I too would want a way to block my posts from being transferred. I don't want my views and/or writing on fb. I come to AT because it is pretty much my online family. I can talk about tarot or read about different subjects that I am interested in that maybe some of my family and friends that are on fb might not like or understand.

I use fb to keep in contact with my family that lives all over the states.

I love this forum and because I consider it to be "family" I want to be protective of my online family as I am of my rl family. Not only due privacy issues but because some people on fb might not be very understanding of posts on here and therefore might be not so nice in posting comments on whatever link is posted.

Therefore, I too feel like linking threads to fb is not such a good idea.

I felt that I had to post to let my thoughts on this subject be known......


*steps off my soapbox*

*goes back to being my semi-quiet self*

Annabelle
16-06-2011, 04:07
But, linking is part of the nature of the internet. Even without the new feature, I could easily link to threads here. I don't see an issue with the new feature. It's not as if anyone is stealing my words -- merely making my words easier to find. I try not to put anything out on the net, under any pseudonym, that I would be afraid for others who know me to read.

Edit: I just re-read the info about the linking feature and am even more reassured that there's nothing to worry about . . . the linking feature only works with publicly viewable threads, so it's not as if someone can easily add a FB link to a subscriber-only thread.

kaleanna
16-06-2011, 04:12
This is not a feature I like or would support in any way... and it makes me very leery of posting in any non-subscriber threads....

I agree with you Yira !

yirabeth
16-06-2011, 04:13
But, linking is part of the nature of the internet. Even without the new feature, I could easily link to threads here. I don't see an issue with the new feature. It's not as if anyone is stealing my words -- merely making my words easier to find. I try not to put anything out on the net, under any pseudonym, that I would be afraid for others who know me to read.

Edit: I just re-read the info about the linking feature and am even more reassured that there's nothing to worry about . . . the linking feature only works with publicly viewable threads, so it's not as if someone can easily add a FB link to a subscriber-only thread.

It is indeed possible to go ahead and do it, as you say. However, Aeclectic Tarot's own rules forbid it :

Originally Posted by Aeclectic Tarot Forum Rules

* Respect Copyright
Posts from other forums may not be reproduced without written permission from the author and from the relevant forum administration.
* Our Disclaimer
By posting on the Aeclectic Tarot Forum, you retain copyright of your images and words, but you give permission to Aeclectic Tarot to reproduce your posts in digital format; for example, when managing threads and posts or copying the database to another server.


With the coming of the facebook etc links, it implies automatic consent and removes need to get author permission.

emmsma
16-06-2011, 04:14
I am not very vocal on AT, but like to think that what I say and do here, stays here. While its always been possible to copy and paste to anywhere else, by adding the links, its almost an invitation to share.

I don't want to be shared. If I wanted my words posted on FB, I'd post them myself.

If there is a way to "opt out" of this particular upgrade, I want out.

Wendywu
16-06-2011, 04:21
I'd like to reassure people that threads posted in the Reading Exchange, although it is not subscriber only, are only visible to logged in members of AT.

Aerin
16-06-2011, 04:22
I've always seen a big difference between a link to a thread/ website and reproducing the material on the thread/ website. No-one is taking anyone's copyright if they just post the link: the link itself is not copyright as all it does is to take you to a place that was publicly accessible anyway.

I don't especially like this feature, and won't use it, but it doesn't allow anyone to read anything that I had posted in an expectation of privacy - because I've always known that anyone could read my words if I put them here.

(or members; or subscribers; depending on the area of the forum in question)

Annabelle
16-06-2011, 04:24
Even if the FB linking gets taken away, I sure hope that the Google bookmarking feature is allowed to remain. I love that I can easily add a thread to my Google bookmarks! (This doesn't share anything with anyone -- just lets me bookmark easily, as I make heavy use of my Google bookmarks.)

The crowned one
16-06-2011, 04:26
But, linking is part of the nature of the internet. Even without the new feature, I could easily link to threads here. I don't see an issue with the new feature. It's not as if anyone is stealing my words -- merely making my words easier to find. I try not to put anything out on the net, under any pseudonym, that I would be afraid for others who know me to read.

Edit: I just re-read the info about the linking feature and am even more reassured that there's nothing to worry about . . . the linking feature only works with publicly viewable threads, so it's not as if someone can easily add a FB link to a subscriber-only thread.

Yes I just realized this as I was cooking my breakfast, it feels a bit invasive but really all anyone is doing is inviting someone to come here are read our words, they are not putting our words out there, if I understand this correctly?

Oink
16-06-2011, 04:28
I don't see an issue with the new feature. It's not as if anyone is stealing my words -- merely making my words easier to find. I try not to put anything out on the net, under any pseudonym, that I would be afraid for others who know me to read.

Some of us don't want our words to be easier to find, and thus we take issue with a feature that encourages people to make them so.

Topsy
16-06-2011, 04:28
If you're concerned about privacy, just remove anything from your profile that would identify you - ie your date of birth and any real photos of you. Without them, I'd just be Topsy from Derby and no-one's any the wiser that I might be someone they know.

Aerin
16-06-2011, 04:30
Yes I just realized this as I was cooking my breakfast, it feels a bit invasive but really all anyone is doing is inviting someone to come here are read our words, they are not putting our words out there, if I understand this correctly?

That's my understanding too.

In exactly the same way as you would by clicking "copy/ paste" from the link showing in the browser window.

The link would then take you to the forum.

If what this new feature does is to make people more careful about putting identity information out on a public forum then maybe that is a good thing - after all, someone with evil intent has always been able to find it, and the new feature won't make an iota of difference to that as far as I can tell.

KMilliron
16-06-2011, 04:31
I don't see an issue with it. You are posting with a pseudonym, and it's only visible threads which would be easy for me to read anyway. A link isn't "Come look at what First Middle Last name said and judge them" it's just "Oh hey, this is interesting, read it sometime?'

That's the way I see it anyway. I don't plan on posting links on FB because of my overly religious family members. And if everyone else seems so iffy, then I doubt facebook will be overrun by sudden floods of AT links anyway :D

Oink
16-06-2011, 04:42
I don't see an issue with it. You are posting with a pseudonym, and it's only visible threads which would be easy for me to read anyway. A link isn't "Come look at what First Middle Last name said and judge them" it's just "Oh hey, this is interesting, read it sometime?'
Consider this scenario:
I'm Facebook friends with some AT people that I've gotten particularly close to, who know details about my "real life", etc. My very religious and nosy <pick a close family relation> sees a name pop up in my friends list and says, "how does s/he know my relative?" and clicks on them, sees a bunch of AT links on their wall, and clicks one, reading that thread. If you think your own mother/grandmother/whatever won't pick up on your grammar, vocabulary, phrasing, etc., think "gee, that sounds like my daughter..." and click the "find all posts by" link to find out, you're probably not giving them enough credit.

As a computer nerd by profession, I've seen this scenario play out a million times. People who know you well do not need your name or birthday to recognize you.

Moonbow
16-06-2011, 04:48
Just so that eveyone understands, I have just put this whole thread on my facebook page. Now its open to the www (proactively)

KMilliron
16-06-2011, 04:50
Consider this scenario:
I'm Facebook friends with some AT people that I've gotten particularly close to, who know details about my "real life", etc. My very religious and nosy <pick a close family relation> sees a name pop up in my friends list and says, "how does s/he know my relative?" and clicks on them, sees a bunch of AT links on their wall, and clicks one, reading that thread. If you think your own mother/grandmother/whatever won't pick up on your grammar, vocabulary, phrasing, etc., think "gee, that sounds like my daughter..." and click the "find all posts by" link to find out, you're probably not giving them enough credit.

As a computer nerd by profession, I've seen this scenario play out a million times. People who know you well do not need your name or birthday to recognize you.

So don't write what you wouldn't want your very religious and nosy <pick a close family relation> to see?

Aerin
16-06-2011, 04:51
Mixing tarot friends with very religious friends is risky if you are worried about that happening, it could happen right now. Except that, if you aren't a member, you can't view member profiles etc etc etc.

Which is one of the reasons why I don't have any of my AT online friends on my facebook. It's not a place I discuss tarot.

Some people have an extra profile on fb just for tarot, with no personal info there at all.

IheartTarot
16-06-2011, 04:53
Note that anyone who is a member here who is a facebook Friend of another member here will be able to post an AT thread link on their Friend's Wall unless their Friend's privacy settings prevent it, as well as in various other places (their own Wall, a Group, a public Page, a PM).

If you want to make sure that nobody posts an AT thread link on YOUR facebook Wall, make sure that your facebook privacy settings do not allow Friends to post on your Wall (that doesn't mean that they can't comment on your posts, they just can't start a new thread on your Wall containing a link).

Oink
16-06-2011, 04:58
So don't write what you wouldn't want your very religious and nosy <pick a close family relation> to see?
Clearly that's an option, but I really don't want to have the "tarot discussion" with some people, so that would preclude me from participating in public sections of the forum.

If the leadership of AT want to have an online forum, decisions like this are just fine. If instead they want to have an online community relating to a topic that runs afoul of a lot of people's belief systems, decisions like this are not in their best interest because they discourage participation and sharing of the type of information that leads people to feel closer to each other and develop a sense of comeraderie.

The crowned one
16-06-2011, 05:00
So don't write what you wouldn't want your very religious and nosy <pick a close family relation> to see?


Not realistic, some come here for the freedom to say as they please outside their religious circles.

Aerin
16-06-2011, 05:00
I make it a rule not to post anything that I wouldn't be quite happy for people in my family to know if for some reason they came across it. This is a public forum, it is open to google searches and etc and always has been. There are some areas that are more private but you have no control over who sees it and never have had.

However, my screen name isn't my real name and most people wouldn't come here anyway because they simply aren't interested.

I do know people who wouldn't like my interest in tarot, which is one reason why I don't have tarot discussions on fb and I don't have friends on fb who would have them anyway. It would be very limiting, I'd have to give them a list of topics they weren't allowed to talk about :/ and that would never work. Well, I wouldn't really, but why risk a fight when there's no need and no reason?

KMilliron
16-06-2011, 05:06
I can copy and paste a link now, and could before the update. The button just makes it easier. Solandia put a button on the bottom of the page, what Solandia did not do was tell everyone to use it, or invent an entirely new linking system this world wide web has never seen. Let's all be realistic, really.

Saturness
16-06-2011, 05:58
Edit: I just re-read the info about the linking feature and am even more reassured that there's nothing to worry about . . . the linking feature only works with publicly viewable threads, so it's not as if someone can easily add a FB link to a subscriber-only thread.

The problem is that not all members (such as moi) are subscribers. So that means that my public posts can be shared on FB, because I'm not protected by subscription.

And in many open forums, such as "Your Readings" and the "Reading Circles" people end up posting perosnal details, because of the very nature of tarot readings. They give background information, or post feedback to readings. And anyone can link to it on FB now.

I'm not saying that the could not do that before - i'ts simply easier now. :)


So don't write what you wouldn't want your very religious and nosy <pick a close family relation> to see?

Not realistic, some come here for the freedom to say as they please outside their religious circles.


I completely agree with TCO. Personally I like in a very open country when it comes to religion and spirituality, but I know many people don't and must be discreet about their divination practice. They come to a Tarot forum to be able to discuss what they have to hide in real life, and now they must hide here too? That kills the whole purpose of the forum itself, which is to allow free discussion of tarot and other divination methods.


I can copy and paste a link now, and could before the update. The button just makes it easier. Solandia put a button on the bottom of the page, what Solandia did not do was tell everyone to use it, or invent an entirely new linking system this world wide web has never seen. Let's all be realistic, really.

Yes, but people have the right to be unhappy about that. The new feature made the link between FB and AT easier than before, and that means people don't need to bother copying the URL, going to FB, pasting it and posting their walls. Now they do it automatically, and therefore don't even have to think about what they are doing.

It's the 'not thinking about what they are doing' that is dangerous.

Moonbow
16-06-2011, 06:07
Just so that eveyone understands, I have just put this whole thread on my facebook page. Now its open to the www (proactively)

I agree with you completely Marina.

And btw... the above post was to make a point. I wondered who would pick up on it, or who would stop posting here because of it. I have not posted it on my FB page.... though it would have been so easy to do so and also a good topic of conversation on there.

Fire Cat
16-06-2011, 06:14
As far as readings go, the rules implicitly state that personal information or readings of a personal nature should be conducted via PM. This is not news. Neither is it news, as was brought up before, that Links can be shared via fb and/or easily accessible by googling. This is a public Forum and we all agreed to certain stipulations signing up for membership here, regardless of whether we are subscribers or not.

If you are personally uncomfortable or unable to mix your tarot friends with your fb friends, the logical course of action would be to limit your own freedoms, that is either remove tarot people or family from your fb page, instead of expecting the whole lot of us to limit ours, or to prevent Solandia from making Aeclectic more accessible and friendlier to the at large public.

Bernice
16-06-2011, 06:19
I'm not very technical, so I apologise if I've understood this wrongly - but the links to facebook and so forth - does this mean that someone can link a thread into facebook, with all comments/discussion, even though I don't have a facebook account and wouldn't want to?

I know that when I write in the open part of the forum, it could be read by anyone, if they bothered to come and find it - but this would shove it in the face of people on facebook, without my knowledge or consent?

Is that the gist of it?

If so, is there a way of blocking my posts from being transferred? I don't want my views and writing on facebook, thanks very much :(

Back to the quiet corner for me... My bold above. Perhaps there may be an Option to opt out of this. Could it be one of the new features which are still being installed? In our Profiles?

Here's hoping....


Bee :)

Topsy
16-06-2011, 06:21
And in many open forums, such as "Your Readings" and the "Reading Circles" people end up posting perosnal details, because of the very nature of tarot readings. They give background information, or post feedback to readings. And anyone can link to it on FB now.

I completely agree with TCO. Personally I like in a very open country when it comes to religion and spirituality, but I know many people don't and must be discreet about their divination practice. They come to a Tarot forum to be able to discuss what they have to hide in real life, and now they must hide here too? That kills the whole purpose of the forum itself, which is to allow free discussion of tarot and other divination methods.
Just to reassure you, Marina - The "Your Readings" and "Reading Exchange" forums are only viewable to logged-in AT members, and the Facebook link button doesn't appear at the bottom of threads posted in these forums either. So although you could copy & paste the link to your Facebook page, only AT members would be able to view it.

I agree about Tarot being something that people often want to keep private. I am lucky enough to have a very tolerant friendship group, but even so, very few of them know I use Tarot cards. I hate to think what it would be like to have a family or friendship circle that wasn't tolerant (my own mother got branded a heretic in church at 14 because a friend told the priest she had been using Tarot cards. That was a loooong time ago, but some places are still like that). I just took the photo of myself down from my AT profile to reduce the chances of someone realising who I am. Seems a silly length to have to go to. :(

Oink
16-06-2011, 06:24
My bold above. Perhaps there may be an Option to opt out of this. Could it be one of the new features which are still being installed? In our Profiles?

Here's hoping....


Bee :)
That's technically unfeasible, because if someone linked to the top of the thread it would require that not a single poster to that thread had opted-out. (If that doesn't make sense, consider that we're talking about links to threads, like http://www.google.com, rather than the content of that webpage itself.)

The crowned one
16-06-2011, 06:29
As far as readings go, the rules implicitly state that personal information or readings of a personal nature should be conducted via PM. This is not news. Neither is it news, as was brought up before, that Links can be shared via fb and/or easily accessible by googling. This is a public Forum and we all agreed to certain stipulations signing up for membership here, regardless of whether we are subscribers or not.

If you are personally uncomfortable or unable to mix your tarot friends with your fb friends, the logical course of action would be to limit your own freedoms, that is either remove tarot people or family from your fb page, instead of expecting the whole lot of us to limit ours, or to prevent Solandia from making Aeclectic more accessible and friendlier to the at large public.

Some very good points there!

Ego-centric me thinking me! To be honest as the idea settles in I am becoming less concerned, it is just the ease in how we can do it now...

Only link my real good stuff folks ;)

Fire Cat
16-06-2011, 06:30
I don't see how that could work either, Bee.

What about just having a separate Facebook account with only tarot people? Then you could post your new account in the "Who here has a facebook account" Thread to get your all your friends back.

Manda
16-06-2011, 06:42
You could always link threads. I guess some people did not realize that. I do not have any issues with facebook friends knowing what I do here or forum friends knowing what I do on facebook, but perhaps everyone is not that way, and it is understandable, but the general rule for the whole entire internet, not just Aeclectic Tarot Forum or facebook, is if you do not want to own what you put out there, make sure it is completely anonymous. If you want complete, utter privacy you have to make sure everything is in no way, shape, or form attached to your identifiable features. That was true before the facebook button popped up down there. It's your job to control your level of privacy, not the administrators of any forums you may post in.

I know that is going to be an unpopular view, but it is life in the internet age. That button does not even make it marginally easier to share whatever you may have wanted to on facebook, because copy and paste is only one more click than that.

Bernice
16-06-2011, 06:42
I don't see how that could work either, Bee.

What about just having a separate Facebook account with only tarot people? Then you could post your new account in the "Who here has a facebook account" Thread to get your all your friends back. Hi Fire Cat :)
Thing is, I don't have a facebook a/c (Don't want one).

This easily accessible fb button means that it will now be so much easier for the tons of people who do use fb to link to posts I've made (via the thread-links). To be honest, I also cannot see how this can be avoided, I made the post about a possible Option in the hopes someone could come up with a work-around. Some sort of "Ignore Facebook" option.

I'm nobodys friend on fb. I like it like that. I much prefer just having friends here.


Bee :)

Manda
16-06-2011, 06:48
Also, I seriously doubt there is a way to stop links being posted anywhere anyway. You could make all the sections only viewable by members, but it is easy to become a member. Some of us write blogs we reference back to here, and any number of things. The internet is a double edged sword, allowing communication to take place in a whole new way, but using it also allows others access to us, and we do not always have a lot of control over who that is. Me, I prefer to not invite trouble and I take safe precautions but don't worry about it overly.

Fire Cat
16-06-2011, 06:50
Hi Fire Cat :)
Thing is, I don't have a facebook a/c (Don't want one).

This easily accessible fb button means that it will now be so much easier for the tons of people who do use fb to link to posts I've made (via the thread-links). To be honest, I also cannot see how this can be avoided, I made the post about a possible Option in the hopes someone could come up with a work-around. Some sort of "Ignore Facebook" option.

I'm nobodys friend on fb. I like it like that. I much prefer just having friends here.


Bee :)
Ah, well on the brighter side then you retain your anonymity as no one knows who you are in RL. And you can rest assured that most of the folks interested enough to follow any AT Links here would be people who already know you and have accounts here so this perhaps wouldn't be too much of an issue?

Saturness
16-06-2011, 06:54
Just to reassure you, Marina - The "Your Readings" and "Reading Exchange" forums are only viewable to logged-in AT members, and the Facebook link button doesn't appear at the bottom of threads posted in these forums either. So although you could copy & paste the link to your Facebook page, only AT members would be able to view it.

Whew! That is good to know! :D
My problem is that I never visit AT without being logged in so I forgot that some forums can only seen by members! Thanks for reminding me! :P


I agree about Tarot being something that people often want to keep private. I am lucky enough to have a very tolerant friendship group, but even so, very few of them know I use Tarot cards. I hate to think what it would be like to have a family or friendship circle that wasn't tolerant (my own mother got branded a heretic in church at 14 because a friend told the priest she had been using Tarot cards. That was a loooong time ago, but some places are still like that). I just took the photo of myself down from my AT profile to reduce the chances of someone realising who I am. Seems a silly length to have to go to. :(

Thankfully I don't need to hide my divination practices from anyone.

I do try to keep it separated from certain areas of my life, such as my job. My Facebook is my personal FB, so it is very open about my tarot practice. However, I do not write the name of place I work at, even though it's well-known locally. It's not that they'd fire me for reading tarot, but I think they may not like to have it associated with their name. So, as a way to respect the company in which I work, I keep their name out of my personal Facebook page.

I just think people need to be polite and careful when linking certain threads to Facebook. Because the text will be out of its original context, and it may be misunderstood by the general public. Some topics discussed here are not welcome in all social circles.

Bernice
16-06-2011, 07:06
Ah, well on the brighter side then you retain your anonymity as no one knows who you are in RL. And you can rest assured that most of the folks interested enough to follow any AT Links here would be people who already know you and have accounts here so this perhaps wouldn't be too much of an issue? Common sense reigns. Thank you Fire Cat, that's my personal concern appeased :).

However - bet you supected this was coming - other members who are more open about their identity and who make personal comments in their posts, will now be very wary of what they say, and have said. It's a bit like knowing that your phone calls are recorded and can be listened to by complete strangers .......... we might live with it, but don't have to like it.


Bee :)

Fire Cat
16-06-2011, 07:17
Common sense reigns. Thank you Fire Cat, that's my personal concern appeased :).

However - bet you supected this was coming - other members who are more open about their identity and who make personal comments in their posts, will now be very wary of what they say, and have said. It's a bit like knowing that your phone calls are recorded and can be listened to by complete strangers .......... we might live with it, but don't have to like it.


Bee :)

That is a pickle. So this would be a case where the person in question may seriously consider two Facebook accounts. I have many friends who do this for professional reasons as well as for games, not to mention privacy concerns.

Ambrosia
16-06-2011, 07:29
Off topic slightly, but I'm surprised there hasn't been a twitter button added. Not that any of this bothers me one way or the other. Just sayin'.

Muir Aingeal
16-06-2011, 07:38
I think I heard that Twitter is even gaining in popularity over Facebook and Facebook is now yesterdays Myspace so too I'm curious why there's not a Twitter button.

Personally, I feel life isn't all about Facebook and I thought this site was a nice Utopia away from all the garbage that goes on there but I guess I can understand why some people would want it. I just hope that the 'Your Readings' section will be kept private along with other personal private posts as some people are known on the internet by their user names.

Fire Cat
16-06-2011, 07:39
Off topic slightly, but I'm surprised there hasn't been a twitter button added. Not that any of this bothers me one way or the other. Just sayin'.

That would be less of a pickle and more of a wiener. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

jackdaw*
16-06-2011, 07:47
Thanks for starting this thread, PW.

I have been quite vocal on the forum today about my dislike for this feature (and several others, but that's for another thread), and have also emailed Solandia asking about the possibility of blocking posts as Bee had mentioned. This disturbs me very much, having no liking and less trust of social networking sites. I do seriously believe that we should have to give consent for our posts to be linked in this manner. And I do not give it :mad:

If I wanted my words to be so readily available on facebook to all comers I would still have a facebook account.

Oink
16-06-2011, 07:52
That would be less of a pickle and more of a wiener. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)
*covers face with palm*
*groans*
*rolls around on the floor laughing*
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

gregory
16-06-2011, 08:33
I object to the links thing VERY much indeed. It may be only public threads that can be linked. but I never want to be on facebook in any form. While I realise that before people COULD do this, given - for instance - that most reading threads are public - absolutely UGH.

For heaven's sake - the readings guidelines were just changed to say that they may not be POSTED elsewhere - and now the people who were copying readings from here onto their blogs will just be able to link instead. I think that's a total breach of privacy. Please at least find a way to prevent links to reading threads.

Sorry Solandia - you know I love you to bits - but this was a seriously bad call. Please do undo it.

ETA just checked and at least reading don't have DIRECT links - but even so..... One reason I like this place is that it ISN'T tied to all the crap places like - well, facebook....

Fire Cat
16-06-2011, 08:48
I object to the links thing VERY much indeed. It may be only public threads that can be linked. but I never want to be on facebook in any form. While I realise that before people COULD do this, given - for instance - that most reading threads are public - absolutely UGH.

For heaven's sake - the readings guidelines were just changed to say that they may not be POSTED elsewhere - and now the people who were copying readings from here onto their blogs will just be able to link instead. I think that's a total breach of privacy. Please at least find a way to prevent links to reading threads.

Sorry Solandia - you know I love you to bits - but this was a seriously bad call. Please do undo it.

But if you look at the bottom of any of the Readings Forums you will notice that the hotlink to post on Facebook or any other hotlinked Site is not there. It is only for a few select Forums.

gregory
16-06-2011, 08:50
But if you look at the bottom of any of the Readings Forums you will notice that the hotlink to post on Facebook or any other hotlinked Site is not there. It is only for a few select Forums.

See my edit. The implication is that it's OK though...

Muir Aingeal
16-06-2011, 08:55
but even so..... One reason I like this place is that it ISN'T tied to all the crap places like - well, facebook....


I concur.

Solandia
16-06-2011, 10:32
Hi all, the Facebook button simply creates a link and does not make any more information available to Facebook than previously. There is no difference between the new button, and someone manually copying a link to a thread and posting it on Facebook or another website - which has been possible since the forum began.

The button doesn't re-post the actual thread or any posts in it, or show any private member information. It also only works on public forums which are viewable by guests, not members-only forums like Your Readings or the Reading Exchange, or subscriber-only forums like Chat.

~ Solandia

Stormdancer
16-06-2011, 11:01
It also only works on public forums which are viewable by guests, not members-only forums like Your Readings or the Reading Exchange, or subscriber-only forums like Chat.

~ SolandiaSo, which forums are open to anyone..."guests"?

ETA...am I to understand that IF the FB button appears at the bottom of a forum, then that forum is accessible by guests, rather than just "members" & "Suscribers"?

Alta
16-06-2011, 11:12
What guests see is the page you see when not logged in I suppose.

Stormdancer
16-06-2011, 11:14
What guests see is the page you see when not logged in I suppose.I don't think I've ever been "Not logged in"...I think I'm afraid if I log out, y'all won't let me back in ! LOL :D

Muir Aingeal
16-06-2011, 11:21
What guests see is the page you see when not logged in I suppose.

So pretty much all the posts except for the subscriber sections?

Stormdancer
16-06-2011, 11:27
So pretty much all the posts except for the subscriber sections?That's kinda what I'm not clear on....well, ok ONE of the MANY things, but that's really just my problem...ANYway, is there a difference between non-subscribing members and "guests", especially in regards to access here.

Muir Aingeal
16-06-2011, 11:31
, is there a difference between non-subscribing members and "guests", especially in regards to access here.

I don't believe so.

Topsy
16-06-2011, 11:46
is there a difference between non-subscribing members and "guests", especially in regards to access here.
A "guest" is someone not logged into an AT account, and they wouldn't be able to see the Your Readings/Reading Exchange forums, or any of the subscribers-only forums. They also cannot view members' profiles or email addresses.

Whereas a non-subscribing member could do all of the above, except access subscribers-only forums.

ETA: Just checked, and including your email address on your profile is optional anyway. But even if you decide to include it, only logged-in members of AT can view it.

Annabelle
16-06-2011, 11:48
Thank you for the clarification, Solandia, and (((hugs))). I think the forum upgrade is fantastic, and all the work you do for us is fantastic, too :).

Stormdancer
16-06-2011, 13:48
Thank you for the clarification, Solandia, and (((hugs))). I think the forum upgrade is fantastic, and all the work you do for us is fantastic, too :).I agree 100%!!!

...I think some of us are just coming to terms with our naivete RE: our privacy here at AT. We're working it all out....

gregory
16-06-2011, 19:37
...I think some of us are just coming to terms with our naivete RE: our privacy here at AT. We're working it all out....

I know what people could see if they weren't signed up/signed in (I watched for a long time before I did !)

But many more people will now be posting links to here. A link to AT in general is fine. A link to a thread - ugh. Sure it happened before - but not a lot; not many people would have thought to. I like most of the rest - especially the multiquote thing - and the fact that this upgrade was glitchless, which is more than I can say for many I've sat through recently... that is VERY impressive and many kudoses (she deserves more than just kudos !) to Soladia - but NOT this. (I guess I am very grateful for no "like" button" :D) - but these buttons - ugh ugh ugh.

Muir Aingeal
17-06-2011, 06:15
I think what dismays me is that Facebook seems to have it's dirty little hooks in everything these days. It's a rare gem of a site today that doesn't have a Facebook button etc on it! and I also take issues with their privacy policies as well so perhaps that is another reason it bothers me.

Oh well, I guess those of us who are not Facebook Fanatics (and I do have a page) might have to just accept the fact that it's going to be in your face everywhere you go these days- on and off the net!- until it goes the way of Myspace..ha!

I do like the other new features so kudos to Solandia on that! :)

gregory
17-06-2011, 06:54
I think what dismays me is that Facebook seems to have it's dirty little hooks in everything these days. It's a rare gem of a site today that doesn't have a Facebook button etc on it! and I also take issues with their privacy policies as well so perhaps that is another reason it bothers me.

Oh well, I guess those of us who are not Facebook Fanatics (and I do have a page) might have to just accept the fact that it's going to be in your face everywhere you go these days- on and off the net!- until it goes the way of Myspace..ha!
I WISH.... But - ICK. Dirty little hooks - exactly. Here was CLEAN and PURE and that ! I know you COULD link before - but now it seems almost recommended...

I do like the other new features so kudos to Solandia on that! :)
I do - most of them. And the seamless upgrade was amazing.

Muir Aingeal
17-06-2011, 07:06
I WISH.... But - ICK. Dirty little hooks - exactly. Here was CLEAN and PURE and that ! I know you COULD link before - but now it seems almost recommended....

I agree :)

Starshower
17-06-2011, 07:40
I don't know how - being very techno-ignorant - but I came across, ON ANOTHER SITE, a whole thread of what I BELIEVED to be a PRIVATE (i.e. restricted access to subscribers here only) Oracle reading exchange, in which I stupidly & naively revealed personal issues.
I logged out, & found I could also access it here.

Utter dismay!
It's a shock to discover that so much of what I thought was AT-specific personal stuff is out there on the net for anyone to see. A few people know my online nicknames ... I thought my personal readings & feedback here were for subscribers only ...

Oh dear! I'm really upset. Is there any way I can delete them, without leaving the site?

I love AT & all my friends here, but this makes me want to warn people away.

Where can I find out (in simple, layman's terms) what is publically readable to all & sundry, & what - if anything - is private to AT posters, followers & friends?

Fire Cat
17-06-2011, 07:43
No, Oracle Readings are still Members Only. This is just the way your machine handles cookies.

Try opening up Oracle Readings in another browser (not logging in first, of course) and looking then.

Starshower
17-06-2011, 07:46
I did. And it was.
And it's on at least one other site, which I came across by chance. Oh dear ...

Fire Cat
17-06-2011, 07:54
That's very odd. It shouldn't be visible. When I open up Firefox, where I am not logged in and haven't been for quite some time, I see this on the Oracles Forum Page: (see attachment)

Note the word "Private" in the Last Post column.

zannamarie
17-06-2011, 08:18
I thought my personal readings & feedback here were for subscribers only ...While it may sound picky, terminology is important to understand.

There are three levels of access:
guests - any one on the Web
members - those who sign up for a user ID here on AT and sign in
subscribers - those who pay for a subscription (which is a subset of the members and thus all have user IDs and sign in)

Each level gives access to more forums on ATF.

There is an actual forum titled Personal Readings and only subscribers (and not members) have access to it, but that is for tarot and not Oracles. Not sure if that's what you meant by "personal readings and feedback" or not.

I know members and subscribers have access to the oracle forums, but I didn't think guests did (I'm not positive off the top of my head).

If you look at the ATF forum page (http://www.tarotforum.net/), you will notice that some forums specifically state "Subscribers only". Members and guests do not have access to those.

As far as the other forums, I thought some used to state you had to be a member to access them (note: I said member, not subscriber), but I don't see that now. Not sure if that disappeared with the upgrade or not.

I hope that clears the mud a little. :D

Chiska
17-06-2011, 08:58
I did. And it was.
And it's on at least one other site, which I came across by chance. Oh dear ...

Starshower - was the reading text there or a link? If the text was there as if it was copy and pasted, then it is possible that this was a violation of forum rules. Posting a link and posting actual text are two different things. Posting a link preserves the 'privacy' of the link - meaning you can't access a link in private/subscriber only forum unless you are a logged in subscriber. Posting the text makes it wide open for anybody to read.

If you can find that website again, I recommend working with a Moderator to determine whether or not this is a violation. Also, did you ask the owner of that blog/site to remove the reading?

gregory
17-06-2011, 09:00
People can and do copy readings from here to other forums. It is a banning offence in my book. :mad: Was it a link to the thread - or actually COPIED.

But there we go - exactly what I've been afraid of happening with the encouragement to link. People think it's all OK - even though the guidelines say don't.

Chiska
17-06-2011, 09:05
I just "googled" "Starshadow Oracle" and it returned the FSC May 2011 exchange between Starshadow and aurarcana. I was logged out of AT at the time and was still able to view the exchange.

I was a bit concerned, until I realized that the FSC exchanges are in the Oracle Study Group forum, which is NOT private. Also returned was an exchange between the two in November 2010 - also in the Oracle Study Group forum

Perhaps...the FSC exchanges could be moved to the Oracle Exchanges forum, which is public.

Emily
17-06-2011, 09:21
I know the ability to link has always been here but with the addition of this button to FB it now makes it too easy.

I did have a facebook page a couple of years ago, briefly, but putting so much of myself about didn't appeal to me at all, I've always been pretty careful about my privacy and of what I post online, anywhere online not just here.

I don't want my postings being viewed off-forum but I know it could happen - maybe this FB button is a wake-up call - just remember that your postings could end up anywhere and being read by just about anybody.

gregory
17-06-2011, 09:29
I don't want my postings being viewed off-forum but I know it could happen - maybe this FB button is a wake-up call - just remember that your postings could end up anywhere and being read by just about anybody.

Which is almost enough to stop one posting. :( The button is like an invitation.

Laura Borealis
17-06-2011, 10:19
I don't want my postings being viewed off-forum but I know it could happen - maybe this FB button is a wake-up call - just remember that your postings could end up anywhere and being read by just about anybody.

They're not being viewed off-forum, though. The link would bring the reader to AT. Same as any other link.

Milfoil
17-06-2011, 17:38
Though not a big fan of Face Book myself, I'm not sure how many people will actually use the button when the novelty of it dies away. Any subscriber can copy and paste a reading/email/PM elsewhere regardless of whether the sender thought it was private. It behoves us all to carefully consider what we put into the public arena and to whom!

I fully understand the reservations about FB privacy issues but really everywhere on the net is pretty much the same. ALL servers hold information for decades whether you delete the info or not. Information is power as they say so whether it is Facebook or your own web site, that info will be around for a long time and out of your hands the moment you upload it to the server.

Wendywu
17-06-2011, 19:09
I think the problem in Oracles has arisen because the FSC reading exchange threads are all posted in the Study Group thread for the Faeries Oracle, and not within the readings subforum of Oracles. The Oracle Readings subforum is visible only to logged in members (not just subscribers). However, the Study Groups are visible to all....

It should be noted that it is in fact easy to copy and paste an entire thread somewhere else and if anyone is going to do that with threads then unless we know who they are we can't do anything to prevent their future access.

Links of course bring people straight to AT, and unless they are members they will not be able to access Your Readings, Tarot Reading Exchange, Oracle Readings nor any of the subscriber only areas.

gregory
17-06-2011, 19:22
It is easy to copy and paste yes - but that's more work. The button is like an invitation - SHOW THIS OFF. It SUGGESTS linking - and is more likely to be used than making the effort to copy and paste a link. Sure it "only" brings you back here - but then people with no interest at all in tarot may well just sign up in order to read anything that is non-subscriber. Which opens us up to all sorts of the plain nosy.

Everywhere on the net is NOT pretty much the same in terms of doing this. Sadly. most places are, but this is the only TAROT forum I am aware of (not counting the one that even LOOKS like facebook) that suggests linking. And someone here has already pointed out how people on facebook being able to find out her interest in tarot could adversely impact on her job.

I still hate it, and it will certainly put me off taking part in as many reading threads. That stuff gets personal. And anyone who gets here and find their access is closed can sign up to read it.

zan_chan
17-06-2011, 19:24
I think the Facebook links are a good thing - they potentially increase the visibility of the forum, and hopefully increase traffic and membership to/of the forum, which can only improve its health and help Solandia keep AT sustainable for the long term. And that's definitely a good thing.

The idea of the Internet being a very public place shouldn't be news to anyone. Just ask (former) Rep. Weiner... :)

gregory
17-06-2011, 19:33
The idea of the Internet being a very public place shouldn't be news to anyone. Just ask (former) Rep. Weiner... :)

Sure but there is no need to add to the general nastiness of it all. There WILL be more screams here as more and more readings get splashed around all over and more and more people sign up just to look (snoop) and not join in with tarot related stuff.

Weiner should have kept his stuff to himself, sure. That is the way I begin to feel about readings here, though, now that facebook etc are to be effectively invited to drop by and sign up to look.

Milfoil
17-06-2011, 19:53
With respect, what people do in their work or private lives is really up to them. If we they are not yet willing or able to be open with the world about our beliefs, it really isn't up to everyone else to hide that for them. Thankfully we are no longer in the days of the inquisition and having an interest in the esoteric or new age concepts is not the burning offence it used to be. Any business which penalised a member of staff for their beliefs should be taken to a tribunal IMHO.

Lots of people already link to AT on their blogs, Facebook, Twitter, own web sites etc and instead of the copy and paste, as you say, just link instead. At least this way it makes it much easier to simply link to the original rather than taking bits of a discussion out of context.

Other than having a personal dislike of Facebook, Twitter etc, I don't really understand how this button is any different to cutting and pasting a URL which many already do.

Right now there are 75 members and 379 guests viewing the forum. If people on Facebook are being invited to come snoop, they at least have to pay for the privilege first. I doubt many will subscribe simply to look at one or two readings. Far more people already sit in the background, reading and not involving themselves but it doesn't make them bad.

gregory
17-06-2011, 20:03
Right now there are 75 members and 379 guests viewing the forum. If people on Facebook are being invited to come snoop, they at least have to pay for the privilege first. I doubt many will subscribe simply to look at one or two readings. Far more people already sit in the background, reading and not involving themselves but it doesn't make them bad.

With respect, Milfoil - almost all readings are open to anyone who signs up, not only to those who pay.

And I have NO ISSUES AT ALL with a general link to AT. Just to an implied invitation to share threads.

Milfoil
17-06-2011, 20:05
Ah, sorry, I was under the impression we were taking about those threads being linked to in Subscriber areas.

IheartTarot
17-06-2011, 20:08
There was a fb incident today that blew my mind a little.

Someone alerted me to an offensive post on a public Page XYZ that I am a member/fan of (not related to Tarot), which is insensitive to many vulnerable people (adoptees and others searching for their roots). I found the post and tried to comment on it, only to realize that it was not a direct post on the Wall of XYZ. I can click on the post and view all the poster's Friends' comments, some of which are not appropriate for public consumption, but I cannot comment on it. The poster is most probably not even aware that his post if visible to everyone! I sent him a direct message which was a bit like telling someone that their fly is undone.

The same thing can happen if you mention a person in one of your fb posts. I checked some posts where I had mentioned someone and sure enough it was on their Wall.

Presumably one would have to allow others to post on your Wall for this to happen but who knows if this is the case or always will be, you really have to stay on your toes when it comes to fb privacy.

The message here is, if you share an AT thread on fb beware of mentioning other people in your post as it could inadvertently end up on their Wall and they might not like it!

This situation has arisen because a while ago fb made some more changes which enables its software to recognize names of Pages and people, automatically linking to their profiles (note that it is quite easy to link to the wrong person with a similar name if you are not careful). This is all part of fb's strategy to maximise user interaction and increase advertising exposure.

On a personal note, for a while I made my whole Wall private which made fb pretty redundant. I recently opened it up again, but I know that I have to be extra careful what I post and I will probably get more flak from non-Tarot Friends but so be it. Please don't suggest that I have multiple profiles, I have a personal page and a Tarot Page and that is more than enough. I also know some people who have tried multiple fb profiles and ended up abandoning one or both.

gregory
17-06-2011, 20:08
Ah, sorry, I was under the impression we were taking about those threads being linked to in Subscriber areas.

That one was scary, till WendyWu explained ! Though the reading being copied is against AT rules, and I hope the individual reported it.

ETA to IheartTarot - this is exactly the kind of creeping crap on facebook specifically. They are under investigation by at least two countries' data protection officers, for breaches of common security and the law on data protection. It's also the reason that I do NOT post my name or the names of anyone in my life, here or anywhere else on line.

And I hope everyone here knows that as of a couple of weeks ago, any photos you may post will automatically be linked to any others on anyone's pages that FB's facial recognition facility thinks are of the same person, and FB will suggest to everyone with those photos that they might to look at all these other examples - unless you uncheck that (it is allowed by default) Since my own computer reckons some assorted relatives are potentially the same person, using facial recognition, this could get VERY complicated.

poopsie
17-06-2011, 20:14
I guess I share the same opinion as with the others ... I do have a facebook account but I am not comfortable having my thoughts in the threads shown or exposed in the facebook world ... to be honest, I still believe in exclusivity particularly when it comes to our sharings in the forum. I know I am with like minds and kindred and "family" when I am here in AT. With facebook, I do not feel the family angle ... I see facebook actually more as a marketing tool (or at least, that's how we have used it) ... although I do know friends who share their whole pics and family albums there. I guess I am just not comfortable enough to have the whole world reading my insights about a topic so close to my heart and I know that not all of them would even appreciate or understand this. I don't know if I am just being narrow-minded here, or perhaps, I need to expand my horizons further on this one.

I hope I also have not offended some of our facebook lovers with my comments ... it's just my own thoughts ...

gregory
17-06-2011, 20:36
I hope I also have not offended some of our facebook lovers with my comments ... it's just my own thoughts ...

I :love: YOU, poopsie. A facebook user who encapsulates my feelings about the place !

gregory
17-06-2011, 20:53
With respect, what people do in their work or private lives is really up to them. If we they are not yet willing or able to be open with the world about our beliefs, it really isn't up to everyone else to hide that for them. Thankfully we are no longer in the days of the inquisition and having an interest in the esoteric or new age concepts is not the burning offence it used to be. Any business which penalised a member of staff for their beliefs should be taken to a tribunal IMHO.


For the record - two very relevant posts:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=2773300&postcount=59

and

http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=2773394&postcount=61

This IS a risk. Industrial tribunals are all very well - but we all KNOW that workplaces have ways to make one thing look like another when they choose to discriminate.

IheartTarot
17-06-2011, 21:03
It is not so easy for everyone to be out in the open about Tarot. My own brother has a major issue with Tarot and I dare not mention it around him (I did once and was sorry). I don't want to alienate my own flesh and blood if I can help it.

Bernice
17-06-2011, 23:57
From a business point of view the expansion of AT to openly include the social networking sites is a good move.

For members here in the UK, many of whom who are sick to the back teeth of being spied upon (phones called are recoded, streets bristle with CCTV cameras, emails are monitored....etc) are very aware that making it easy to link to fb & other similar sites are the thin end of the wedge for AT to be furnishing even more information about us. And while most members use an alias member-name, it will now be even more possible for non-tarot people (and the powers that be) to indulge in tracking people down if they have a mind to.

Regarding members, IheartTarots' previous post is an example of the concerns this raises. As many non-tarot people surf the social network sites, I wonder how many people at that location have a brother who is anti-tarot - perhaps a brother who is fb (myspace etc) fan?

We have had stalkers here in this community, I do so hope these links don't attract more of them.


Bee.

zan_chan
18-06-2011, 01:12
Can't people simply have an AT alias that they don't use anywhere else? I mean, a generic name like "dragongirl58" probably won't raise many suspicions, will it? Isn't that why we use screennames? Perhaps "Jeremy_smith_of_86_maple_drive_Spokane" isn't the best sort of choice, but I'm not sure I see the problem if you're using a generic, AT-only SN. Am I missing something?

IheartTarot
18-06-2011, 01:22
Can't people simply have an AT alias that they don't use anywhere else? I mean, a generic name like "dragongirl58" probably won't raise many suspicions, will it? Isn't that why we use screennames? Perhaps "Jeremy_smith_of_86_maple_drive_Spokane" isn't the best sort of choice, but I'm not sure I see the problem if you're using a generic, AT-only SN. Am I missing something?

The problem is that most people use their real names on Facebook, and are Friends with ATF buddies there who know both names.

zan_chan
18-06-2011, 01:27
The problem is that most people use their real names on Facebook, and are Friends with ATF buddies there who know both names.

I still don't get it. How does that affect you? So one of those friends uses the link button, posts a link to a thread on facebook, and also comments that "dragongirl" is also my facebook friend known as Jessica Smith? And even if that did happen, only that person's friends would ever see. No one the supposed Jessica knows would be any the wiser.

And all of this was just as possible pre-button anyway.

I don't get it...

KMilliron
18-06-2011, 01:28
I'm still not getting the issue with the button. :/ PUBLIC forum on a PUBLIC domain, where copy and paste is rampant? And it's NOW that there's a button that is literally 16 by 16 pixels that privacy is an issue?

IheartTarot
18-06-2011, 01:34
And all of this was just as possible pre-button anyway.

I'm still not getting the issue with the button. :/ PUBLIC forum on a PUBLIC domain, where copy and paste is rampant? And it's NOW that there's a button that is literally 16 by 16 pixels that privacy is an issue?

It is the easy, one-click, suggestion/invitation/encouragement that is the issue. People are kidding themselves if they think it is not going to make more people do it. This concern has been stated repeatedly in this thread and I can't understand why it has to be repeated.

IheartTarot
18-06-2011, 01:44
I still don't get it. How does that affect you? So one of those friends uses the link button, posts a link to a thread on facebook, and also comments that "dragongirl" is also my facebook friend known as Jessica Smith? And even if that did happen, only that person's friends would ever see. No one the supposed Jessica knows would be any the wiser.

I will do my best to explain further. :)

Once something is posted on Facebook, it can potentially be seen all over Facebook and it might not take very long for Jessica's "Friends" (which is a pretty loose term on Facebook including family, colleagues, schoolmates and actual friends) and "Friends" of "Friends" etc to figure out that she is dragongirl and read her ATF posts which could pose a problem for her.

Sulis
18-06-2011, 01:45
I don't get it either.
I have a Facebook page for my friends who live locally and my family.. It's in my real name and tarot has absolutely no part of it.
I have another Facebook page that's for tarot people.

Now I can understand people not wanting certain members of their family etc to know about their love of tarot but why have a Facebook page where tarot people and non-tarot people mix if it really is that much of a bother for you? If you do have tarot people on a page where you're afraid others may see what happens if someone inadvertently mentions tarot?

It's no different to how it was before, there's just a button now that I doubt will get used much anyway - before that there was an address bar and no button but anyone with an ounce of computer knowledge could easily link to a public thread anyway and if that thread was in one of the private areas (readings and such), people who cannot access those areas because they're not ATF members can't see the thread through the link anyway.

I could see that there would be something to worry about if people who aren't Aeclectic members could see things that previously were locked but nothing on the forum is any more visible than it was before.

IheartTarot
18-06-2011, 01:48
It's no different to how it was before, there's just a button now that I doubt will get used much anyway - before that there was an address bar and no button but anyone with an ounce of computer knowledge could easily link to a public thread anyway and if that thread was in one of the private areas (readings and such), people who cannot access those areas because they're not ATF members can't see the thread through the link anyway.

I give up, maybe someone else can explain better than I can. :(

gregory
18-06-2011, 01:51
I will do my best to explain further. :)

Once something is posted on Facebook, it can potentially be seen all over Facebook and it might not take very long for Jessica's "Friends" (which is a pretty loose term on Facebook including family, colleagues, schoolmates and actual friends) and "Friends" of "Friends" etc to figure out that she is dragongirl and read her ATF posts which could pose a problem for her.

Exactly. And - I have now changed my profile here - but there are people on facebook - where I am NOT and will never be - who could see a thread here with enough by "gregory" that they would think hang on - and check my profile and bingo, the date of birth and residence would identify me.

Not to mention that there are a few photos here and facebook's new facial recognition crap could tie those to something someone there may have posted of me (I have asked everyone I know who is on FB NOT to do that - but heck there are all sorts of old school photos that could come up...)

I want to be here. I do NOT want to be there. AT ALL, in any form. I realise that links used to be posted - but now there is active encouragement and invitation here, with that tiny yes but conspicuous button, to do so with every public thread. Ugh.

I could see that there would be something to worry about if people who aren't Aeclectic members could see things that previously were locked but nothing on the forum is any more visible than it was before.
It is, however, FAR more likely to be linked, now that there is an invitation on every public thread :(.

KMilliron
18-06-2011, 02:08
Do you really honestly think somebody that is a friend of a friend of Jessica is going to go through all that trouble to find out all about her? And so long as Jessica isn't posting nudes or anything tramatic I'm still not seeing the issue. It's not like Jessica is posting here all about every detail of everything, cause honestly if my Facebook friends don't know something about me, I doubt it's on AT, so why is it an issue?

A nosy religious relative? Either delete them, ask them to back off, or don't have AT friends on facebook. This entire thing is an over reaction. Do you really really honestly think this is a big deal? Then you should have worried about it before the button.

You are seriously getting all huffed up over bombs, when it's war you should be worried about. Sorry if that's an extreme analogy, but this is really an extreme reaction.

gregory
18-06-2011, 02:10
You are seriously getting all huffed up over bombs, when it's war you should be worried about. Sorry if that's an extreme analogy, but this is really an extreme reaction.

Happy you are happy. Enjoy your bubble.

KMilliron
18-06-2011, 02:13
Technically speaking, it's the people worried about privacy that are in a bubble.

Aurora369
18-06-2011, 02:14
Well, I'm with gregory and a few others on this issue. And, now that I have stated that, I will bugger off before I get blasted.

IheartTarot
18-06-2011, 02:17
Anyone game for a poll? :D

KMilliron
18-06-2011, 02:18
What then? Make Solandia disable right clicking? News falsh, there's still ctrl+c and ctrl+v

gregory
18-06-2011, 02:19
Technically speaking, it's the people worried about privacy that are in a bubble.

The day you lose out on a job as a result of what you posted on facebook in your teens...

This is (was) a community. Facebook is a marketing opportunity.


What then? Make Solandia disable right clicking? News falsh, there's still ctrl+c and ctrl+v
Well of course there are. But they aren't sitting there in your face saying GO ON, COPY AND SHARE.

KMilliron
18-06-2011, 02:23
The day you lose out on a job as a result of what you posted on facebook in your teens...

This is (was) a community. Facebook is a marketing opportunity.

Haha, maybe you should start stalking me. Guess what my status is? "Duct tape and mountain dew? Just let me turn on some Linkin Park and Eyes Set To Kill and I'll be set!" W00t, job endangering.

If you are stupid enough to post something that would effect your life negatively in any way shape or form, then deal with it. As long as I'M accountable for my actions then why should I care about a link or two?

Be honest, since the forum update have you notice an increase in stalkers or people whispering behind your back? Has the local news channel posted your entire life story? Give me a few reasons to believe that this button is going to ruin somebodys life. And Jessica's "friends of friends" really doesn't phase me.

IheartTarot
18-06-2011, 02:25
What then? Make Solandia disable right clicking? News falsh, there's still ctrl+c and ctrl+v

I don't think we can make Solandia do anything but at least we will all know who is or isn't in a bubble.

Laura Borealis
18-06-2011, 02:49
Haha, maybe you should start stalking me. Guess what my status is? "Duct tape and mountain dew? Just let me turn on some Linkin Park and Eyes Set To Kill and I'll be set!" W00t, job endangering.

If you are stupid enough to post something that would effect your life negatively in any way shape or form, then deal with it. As long as I'M accountable for my actions then why should I care about a link or two?

Be honest, since the forum update have you notice an increase in stalkers or people whispering behind your back? Has the local news channel posted your entire life story? Give me a few reasons to believe that this button is going to ruin somebodys life. And Jessica's "friends of friends" really doesn't phase me.

You can casually dismiss things like nosy religious relatives and potential employers, but these are real concerns for people. And calling these people stupid is really rude of you.

jackdaw*
18-06-2011, 02:50
I've stated my views on this already. I've read the pro- and anti-link arguments. And it looks like we're not going to come to an agreement. I have found no argument that can convince me that this is anything but a bad thing, and an invasion of my privacy.

I want no part of it. I do NOT under any circumstances want my posts or my words in any form appearing on facebook. And it seems the only way to ensure that is to remove my presence from AT as well. I hate that it's come to this, but I don't see any other way around it.

I'm sorry.

zan_chan
18-06-2011, 02:54
But all that's changed is that instead of clicking a key, you click your mouse. That's truly all. I absolutely don't understand a word of this.

KMilliron
18-06-2011, 02:56
How many people have actually put a link to an AT thread on their Facebook? I only did once to prove a point. This isn't going to drown facebook with all of your opinions, this isn't going to put all your information out there for the entire world to criticize. I doubt the entire world would be so engrossed in your opinions anyway.

Fire Cat
18-06-2011, 02:57
Privacy settings can be set for "Your status, photos, and posts" viewable by "Everyone"; "Friends of Friends"; "Friends Only"; and "Other". By "Other", the privacy settings may be set to "Only Me" or "Specific People".

There needs to be a bit of personal responsibility and accountability here. If one doesn't understand how a Site's software is used and can be used, one shouldn't be using the site, IMAO.

My posts are only viewable by "Friends Only". This means that, even if I post on, say, Tarot Sulis's page and I am not friends with Mr. X, Mr. X cannot see my post. If Mr. X is also friends with Tarot Sulis, it still will be edited out as "unviewable" by him. This is because I have my "status, photos, and posts" set as viewable by "Friends Only".

If I had it set to "Friends of Friends" (which I don't because of work situations and other teachers that I don't want knowing my business), any of these "Friends of Friends" would be able to see my posts on any of my friend's pages if they were friends with that person.

IheartTarot
18-06-2011, 03:02
I've stated my views on this already. I've read the pro- and anti-link arguments. And it looks like we're not going to come to an agreement. I have found no argument that can convince me that this is anything but a bad thing, and an invasion of my privacy.

I want no part of it. I do NOT under any circumstances want my posts or my words in any form appearing on facebook. And it seems the only way to ensure that is to remove my presence from AT as well. I hate that it's come to this, but I don't see any other way around it.

I'm sorry.

Cool Location! :D

The crowned one
18-06-2011, 03:10
I have my settings as Fire Cat does on facebook.

The fact is I google anyones name here( forum name) and in 20 min max. I have everything I need to locate you in real life. It is likely I can describe some of your clothing, know the last 2 towns you lived in, musical taste, and changes in your hair style... along with important stuff.

If you are on the internet you are leaving foot prints that lead back to you.

gregory
18-06-2011, 03:30
But all that's changed is that instead of clicking a key, you click your mouse. That's truly all. I absolutely don't understand a word of this.

It wasn't one key and there wasn't a reminder to do it on every page.

But - well, your choice. Jackdaw* is the big loss here :( Already AT is poorer for this.

Aerin
18-06-2011, 03:47
I have my settings as Fire Cat does on facebook.



So do I. No way do I want random "friends of friends" to see my stuff unless I choose to allow it - I can't control who other people have as friends and I know that.

I also have some in specific groups that can't see ...well... anything on my wall. And I am not searchable on facebook either, and you can't even invite me as a friend unless you know someone who is my friend.

gregory
18-06-2011, 03:50
So do I. No way do I want random "friends of friends" to see my stuff unless I choose to allow it - I can't control who other people have as friends and I know that.

I also have some in specific groups that can't see ...well... anything on my wall. And I am not searchable on facebook either, and you can't even invite me as a friend unless you know someone who is my friend.

But there's nothing to stop anyone who drops by here linking to a thread with you in it.

The crowned one
18-06-2011, 03:57
But there's nothing to stop anyone who drops by here linking to a thread with you in it.

There never was, Gregory you are breaking one of your own signature rules ;)

gregory
18-06-2011, 04:09
There never was, Gregory you are breaking one of your own signature rules ;)

As I've said, now every public page has an invitation to link. And I was disagreeing with Aerin, who I agree has an absolute right to her opinion. But - so do I !

It is indeed a fact that one could always link - though not with a single click. And I have said that actually - in this thread and more than once.

What is now also a fact is that every public page effectively suggests that you might like to. That was not the case before the upgrade.

But clearly we are stuck with this. :(

I still think it's very nasty - tacky, and pandering to the worst side of social media. And we have already lost one sterling and valued member as a direct result.

poopsie
18-06-2011, 04:10
Hi Kmilliron,

Oh ... You'll be surprised about how some people are actually soooo determined to look people up and get even the most minute details about some individuals ... And how critical they are even if they do not personally know them ... I've actually heard and witnessed people in our office and the clients I go to do just such a thing ... And to think that it's even actually none of their business. I think for some, they actually get both critical and curious and maybe that's why some people are uncomfortable. I do know that people can adjust settings but I have actually had cases where some people's settings are not updated and before they know it, someone has managed to get in ... Yup, maybe some individuals do not mind this because that's why they have a facebook account . However, there are others who are privacy oriented and selective and would still prefer to keep it that way.

I guess it may not be just an over reaction, especially if some of theM, have had actual bad experiences. It's interesting though ton hear different views and opinions about this ... It would have been nice to subject this topic to a poll or survey just to check the ayes and nays.

KMilliron
18-06-2011, 04:12
But if privacy is an issue, why post publicly?

gregory
18-06-2011, 04:18
But if privacy is an issue, why post publicly?

You really don't get the feel of the community this place has always had. We have always felt OK with posting fairly personal stuff in readings and the like. People didn't usually BOTHER to post links to the place - and especially not to threads here. As someone up the thread said - this place kind of felt like family. Not any more.

Luckily for me I've always been fairly careful to limit personal info here and have now limited it even more - but I shall certainly be cutting back on exchanging readings on anything but the most mundane things now. Because you can often recognise someone by what they post in those threads - and just the other day someone had to ask many others to delete posts or edit them, as they had realised that if anyone who know them came here, there was a lot of stuff they would not have wanted their family to see.

KMilliron
18-06-2011, 04:21
You really don't get the feel of the community this place has always had.

Thanks for telling me what I don't get, cause you'd know actually.

And since it's a community, and somebody asked people to delete stuff, and they did, what makes you think that it would be a big deal to ask people to do it again, or better yet, not post a link? You keep using the word "invitation" and let's humor that. Have you ever had an invitation that you HAD to act upon? No. Because it's still a choice.

gregory
18-06-2011, 04:25
Thanks for telling me what I don't get, cause you'd know actually.

And since it's a community, and somebody asked people to delete stuff, and they did, what makes you think that it would be a big deal to ask people to do it again, or better yet, not post a link? You keep using the word "invitation" and let's humor that. Have you ever had an invitation that you HAD to act upon? No. Because it's still a choice.

But if you don't get an invitation you aren't nearly as likely to follow it up.

And I know how long you have been here. That's what inevitably means you haven't the same feel for AT as people who have been here for years. Just as you don't know what it feels like to be a grandmother or whatever. It's not as if that is a criticism.

KMilliron
18-06-2011, 04:31
But if you don't get an invitation you aren't nearly as likely to follow it up.

And I know how long you have been here. That's what inevitably means you haven't the same feel for AT as people who have been here for years. Just as you don't know what it feels like to be a grandmother or whatever. It's not as if that is a criticism.

I'll openly admit to being a virgin. Are you saying if I get invited to an orgy I'll be more likely to turn into a sex fiend? If I wanted to be a sex fiend I'd be one, trust me. Even before this 16x16 and prolly 72dpi button came by, I still copied things from AT. Though it was only spreads I made in order to email to friends, it was still pre-button era. This button should not cause people to start censoring themselves, or leaving AT all together.

Put in your sig (please do not post links to threads in which I have participated in without my consent) and, as the community we are, we should respect that.


Or we could riot. Which was fun at the Three Days Grace show, but on forums? Nah, not as appealing.


Signature vs riot?

gregory
18-06-2011, 04:33
Signature vs riot?

Both, thanks.

ETA would you even have THOUGHT of becoming a sex fiend if you had never even heard of such a thing and no-one had invited you ? Just curious now. Where would you have got the idea in the first place ?

KMilliron
18-06-2011, 04:38
Both, thanks.

ETA would you even have THOUGHT of becoming a sex fiend if you had never even heard of such a thing and no-one had invited you ? Just curious now. Where would you have got the idea in the first place ?

You know those classes they give in fifth grade? If we keep going with that analogy it's just basic knowledge/ gossip developed with age.

Where would we have gotten the idea of the wheel if it did not exist for us to draw ideas from?

gregory
18-06-2011, 04:39
You know those classes they give in fifth grade? If we keep going with that analogy it's just basic knowledge/ gossip developed with age.

Where would we have gotten the idea of the wheel if it did not exist for us to draw ideas from?

Yes indeed - I was just wondering about you and sex-fiendery. You don't USUALLY get that even in high school.... even with the new sex-ed classes they have now :D

Sorry TCO - OT.

Le Fanu
18-06-2011, 04:40
But the crux of this (having followed this discussion and had much food for thought) is that as long as one's real name is not linked with one's AT name, there is very little way of actually linking the two together.

Once somewhere the two are linked, e.g if in real life gregory is actually called - let's say - "Severino Ponsonby, Duke of Milan" and we have "Severino Ponsonby, also known as AT member gregory" then that's when the trouble starts. That's when privacy is invaded. And you can never undo it. (sorry for outing you gregory ;))

I have no problem with my opinions being plastered all over the place as Mr Blogs. The problem is when my boss finds out that Mr Blogs on "that devil worshipping tarot website" is actually his employee and his real name is ***********, then that's when I get worried.

I can go to any forum and see comments by someone with a crazy online name. It means nothing to me. It really worries me though when online names become linked to the real name. And there's no going back. I am very open about my interest in tarot but sometimes we post things in a chatty way about (let's say) someone at the office or what a crappy day we had. And this stuff can be found. And held against you.

I am on fb and one of the reasons I have never found it as fascinating as so many others seem to is because I can never post anything of even the slightest interest there. I can never be honest, never talk about the things that matter to me and never post anything personal. I cannot post if I am depressed because work has annoyed me. I can be seen. I hate that. I just post pointles inanities. I am more honest here than I am on fb and have had to ask people to take references to me off their posts if it can be traced to me.

We really should be very paranoid. If you're not, then get real. A future employer is judging you in the shallowest way imaginable and you're jeopardising your future.

poopsie
18-06-2011, 04:41
Yo kmiliron, you'll be surprised ... Even if they want to be private, people still have polarized thoughts and views ... They have pictures of themselves and their families plastered all over and yet they will adjust their settings in a funny way. I asked that question actually once to someone and she simply said, she wants to make sure she's tech savvy and in, even if she doesn't want the world to see her thoughts and albums. And take note, she's got tons of friends and she still gets upset when people make funny remarks when she chats. Beats me but I also wish I understood why they do funny and inconsistent things. Maybe that's why the world is interesting ...

This thread is one interesting thing ... I never realized facebook would trigger tons of comments ... And reactions. And what may be funny here is that it is also possible that the people commenting may not even have an active facebook account ... Just like me. Hehehehe

KMilliron
18-06-2011, 04:47
This thread is one interesting thing ... I never realized facebook would trigger tons of comments ... And reactions. And what may be funny here is that it is also possible that the people commenting may not even have an active facebook account ... Just like me. Hehehehe

Haha, know why I have a Facebook? It was SO people can see my opinions. Not to sound egotistical, hear me out. It's just that my brother comes up to me one day and asks why I haven't added him on facebook. Turns out two people, unbeknownest to me, made me accounts.

So I made one just so people know which one to pay attention to :D That is honestly the sole reason I have a Facebook.


Back on topic, it's not an admin's responsibility to make sure you are being responsible with your privacy. I'm pretty sure I've listed more than enough information on here to be stalked by somebody. I accept the consequences. If you can't, don't do it. Be a tad more careful about what you post here, and adjust your FB privacy settings if this really bugs you.

gregory
18-06-2011, 04:54
Back on topic, it's not an admin's responsibility to make sure you are being responsible with your privacy. I'm pretty sure I've listed more than enough information on here to be stalked by somebody. I accept the consequences. If you can't, don't do it. Be a tad more careful about what you post here, and adjust your FB privacy settings if this really bugs you.

No it isn't down to them - I agree.

The issue is that this is a change which impacts on people here. And some of us hate it. And MANY of us liked to be here just because it isn't facebook or anything like it. And have no FB settings to adjust :D

As to your information on facebook - well, as Leffy said - potential employers and colleges can and do check facebook. You may live to regret some of your publicly stated opinions later (does anyone not ?!) - but it may be too late. They DO judge you based on them.

KMilliron
18-06-2011, 05:00
As to your information on facebook - well, as Leffy said - potential employers and colleges can and do check facebook. You may live to regret some of your publicly stated opinions later (does anyone not ?!) - but it may be too late. They DO judge you based on them.

Hence me not posting anything that would be used against me. That's the whole idea. If you are careful enough you have nothing to fear. As of right now the only things on my facebook that would get me turned down for a job would be my religion, or some of my political views, the only one being posted is my "yes for gay marriage." If that information gets me turned down for a job, I don't want to work there anyways.

If being connected to AT turns me down for a job, then honestly thank you. AT has managed to weed out a few more employers I'd have a hard time dealing with anyways.

My AT name is easily traced to my real name, as is my speach pattern, but as long as I'm careful I don't care. I doubt posting a link on FB in which "KMilliron" aka "Kirsten Milliron" has posted will have an insane irreversable impact on my social and/or work life.

Bernice
18-06-2011, 05:47
...........snip...........

This thread is one interesting thing ... I never realized facebook would trigger tons of comments ... And reactions. And what may be funny here is that it is also possible that the people commenting may not even have an active facebook account ... Just like me. Hehehehe But you don't need a facebook account to have your posts put up on facebook if a 'guest' decides to link a thread from here. This is a fact. Not an opinion.

Another fact; So much easier to click a button and plaster a wall with a direct thread-link to AT member posts.

Whilst some may delight in having their views bandied across social networks by any passing surfer, others feel that it's an invasion of privacy. Arguing the toss about which view should carry most weight is pointless. Some people are exhibitionists (or egotists....:)), others aren't.


Bee.

Aerin
18-06-2011, 05:59
I'm not either of those things (I don't think).

I make a distinction (internally) between "having my posts put on facebook" [which to me implies my words appearing directly, which I would not want just because] and "putting a link on facebook that, when clicked, takes someone to a thread on AT on which I happen to have posted" [ I'm not sure why you'd want to do that unless you keep your tarot life on fb anyway].

I suppose I also don't think that most people would be interested in my posts anyway... and I'm usually more concerned with google searches.

Muir Aingeal
18-06-2011, 06:18
and then of course AT doesn't have Facial Recognition software installed on their site like FB will soon stick on there if they haven't already: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/facebook-facial-recognition-feature-raises-eyebrows/story?id=13792666

In my opinion FB is a malicious computer virus or trojan horse with all kinds of privacy breeches involved.

Annabelle
18-06-2011, 06:31
It's no different to how it was before, there's just a button now that I doubt will get used much anyway - before that there was an address bar and no button but anyone with an ounce of computer knowledge could easily link to a public thread anyway and if that thread was in one of the private areas (readings and such), people who cannot access those areas because they're not ATF members can't see the thread through the link anyway.

Beautifully stated! Hear hear . . . and thank you.

Laura Borealis
18-06-2011, 06:54
I make a distinction (internally) between "having my posts put on facebook" [which to me implies my words appearing directly, which I would not want just because] and "putting a link on facebook that, when clicked, takes someone to a thread on AT"
Same.

Le Fanu
18-06-2011, 07:01
In my opinion FB is a malicious computer virus or trojan horse with all kinds of privacy breeches involved.
Funny, until few months ago I never really gave it much thought but I think the repercussions of fb (not merely linking AT threads to fb) are enormous.

And it's all very well saying "well if a potential employer doesn't like what I've posted then I don't want to work there". The sad thing is that the real world is full of people who could one day think "she believes in tarot; we don't want cranky types", and it was that job that you really wanted at a time of global crisis. And you could justifiably feel angry. Coz now you ain't got an income...

To be honest, I never post in the Reading thread now. I never post about work in the "get it off your chest, part deux" thread. I never post in the Reading Thread simply because it makes me feel uncomfortable.

Funny, AT always felt so seperate from the real world. Now, even though that facility to copy a link was always there, it feels slightly less so. Because of the success of fb, we have created a culture of "me and my thoughts deserve to be more widely known". I hate it. All forums essentially aspire to be facebook now. Sad truth.

My big issue is that many people are petty and judgmental and I cannot bear the thought of being unjustifiably judged by what I like

Muir Aingeal
18-06-2011, 07:20
I hate it. All forums essentially aspire to be facebook now. Sad truth.
My big issue is that many people are petty and judgmental and I cannot bear the thought of being unjustifiably judged by what I like


Yes, I agree. Also, by linking there will be an increase in FB spam over here and while it may bring more traffic to the site it might end up being a huge mess for our members that are truly interested in tarot. I dunno-


If people want the button so be it but they need to understand how it affects other members whether it's just a link to AT or not. There many people out there that are just sick to death of even the mention of the word 'Facebook" for very obvious reasons.


I'm sorry Jackdaw is now gone over this, what a shame :(

Fire Cat
18-06-2011, 07:28
It has been my experience in life that if someone wants to dislike you and be prejudiced against and needs to find some reason, any reason, to justify their warped sense of importance or self-righteous, bigoted behavior against you, then they will damn well find it and take advantage of that information. Period. And they don't need no damn website to prove their point. That's not going to stop them one way or another.

I have learned that I cannot control the behavior or thoughts of others only my own. And I absolutely refuse to edit my life, RL or online, in order to conform to anyone else's idea of how I should be living my life. This applies to how I cut my hair, the clothes I wear, the way I drive, the people I date, the websites I visit, the list is endless. Anyone who has a problem with me and/or my private life can seriously kiss my @$$. If they have a problem with it and want I to make it an issue, i.e. employers etc., well then I s'pose I would see them in court and would not hesitate to tell them as such.

I am not so insecure as to what skill sets I possess or my self-worth as to worry about what those who seek to do be ill think about my belief system. Years ago, yes. Now, absolutely not.

Wendywu
18-06-2011, 07:50
Thanks for saying that Fire Cat - you said what I think and believe :)

Topsy
18-06-2011, 07:52
If being connected to AT turns me down for a job, then honestly thank you. AT has managed to weed out a few more employers I'd have a hard time dealing with anyways.I have learned that I cannot control the behavior or thoughts of others only my own. And I absolutely refuse to edit my life, RL or online, in order to conform to anyone else's idea of how I should be living my life. This applies to how I cut my hair, the clothes I wear, the way I drive, the people I date, the websites I visit, the list is endless. Anyone who has a problem with me and/or my private life can seriously kiss my @$$. If they have a problem with it and want I to make it an issue, i.e. employers etc., well then I s'pose I would see them in court and would not hesitate to tell them as such.
In an ideal world, I would totally agree with you guys. I would work in a place that didn't have prejudices, and didn't care that I posted on AT. But in the current climate, I would be thanking my lucky stars if I got a job anywhere. Many of us simply can't afford to be picky and principled when we've got bills to pay and there's 40 people chasing every job.

I think the really sad thing here is that the presence of the button is causing so many ructions within this community - I adore AT and I hate to see this kind of friction. Unlike Facebook which thrives on drama, AT has always been a pleasant place where people are tolerant and friendly. But at least a couple of people in this thread are being downright rude.

If getting rid of the button restores AT to its peaceful existence, then I'm in favour. Let's get back to the AT that we all know and love.

Fire Cat
18-06-2011, 08:09
I am not being rude, and I don't really see anyone who is. Spirited and opinionated, yes, disrespectful and rude to other AT members because of their difference of opinion? No, sorry, don't see it, Topsy. Someone becoming heated in disagreement during an argument does not equate to rudeness. That's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

My point is is that if you (not you in particular but "you" as in "one") has privacy issues, create two profiles if you are on fb and on AT be damn sure that no personal information can be easily linked to you in RL. Also perhaps put something in your signature that says you prefer not to have you posts linked.

Topsy
18-06-2011, 08:17
Fire Cat - I wasn't referring to you when I said a couple of people were being rude. I think your points in this thread have been very articulate and respectful. Also, I'm not really taking sides in this argument, although clearly I should've ducked for cover anyway, haha XD

The point I'm making is, if the button WASN'T removed then there would be a lot of people who were very unhappy and might even leave AT (jackdaw, for example, who I really hope hasn't gone for good). Whereas if the button WAS removed, the people in the "for" camp wouldn't exactly be upset, they would just shrug and think, "Oh well, if I want to link to a thread I can just copy & paste instead."

Removing the button leaves the community happier overall, that's the only reason I would care one way or another.

Fire Cat
18-06-2011, 08:20
Thank you, Topsy. It's difficult to always tell how one comes across on these social networking sites ;)

Topsy
18-06-2011, 08:29
I know, it's not your fault - I realise it probably looked bad because I'd quoted you!

We could always conduct a poll to see what the community as a whole thinks about this issue. :)

KMilliron
18-06-2011, 08:36
I know, it's not your fault - I realise it probably looked bad because I'd quoted you!

We could always conduct a poll to see what the community as a whole thinks about this issue. :)

I just have a small issue with that. People who don't care about the button probably haven't even look at this thread, and I doubt they'd look at a poll either. I just think it'd be a really limited view unless it was a forum wide thing, if you get what I'm trying to say.

Debra
18-06-2011, 08:44
Has anyone asked Solandia if this is negotiable?

yirabeth
18-06-2011, 08:45
Well, I'd posted here before...and have talked about it within my circle of friends...and I don't see change forthcoming so was just going to try to guard myself as best I can and get used to it not being *home* like I'd previously considered...but I guess I have a little more to say about it after all.

Yes, it was possible to link before. Anyone can do most anything, if they don't want to follow rules, and have a bit of computer knowledge...but before, the fact that the user agreement stressed you should not, and that Solandia was more than willing to ban those who broke the rules, was good enough for me. And, I do know I've posted some things here which I would MOST VEHEMENTLY NOT want out there all over facebook, where not only a potential employer, but a certain other person that I called a killer who has gotten away with murder due to being obscenely rich could find... As that person has managed to get someone else to pay for the crime, it could now be considered libelous at best...Yeah, I was a TAD horrified to log back in and see the social networking links... (probably time to go through all my posts and start editing...and WHY do I have such a big mouth, that's gonna take FOREVER)

Someone else asked me, how is it different than before? I'm guessing you mean aside from it being against the rules previously and now it's openly encouraged. And, for the record, issue isn't facebook, for me. It's AT itself.

I equate it to my actual real life situation. I live in a small town, and I don't lock my doors. I don't need to; I'm safe. Plus I might lock my keys inside if I did :P

But imagine I move to a BIG town. Maybe Detroit! (uggh..I'd rather drink battery acid...lol) Anyway yeah, I'm moving to Detroit. I now have to lock my door, and check to be sure windows have been locked each night. Might even need a security system! This is normal right? That's the way BIG CITIES are.

But still, I've lost something. I can't just go about my life in a carefree manner knowing I'm safe - it has to be a primary consideration in all I do now...I've lost my sense of security.

And, in my online life, I've also lost something. I can no longer explore tarot, or talk to my friends, with the safety net of a private forum to cover me. I have to lock my doors and windows, and maybe I need to consider a security system to separate me from my user name...

I've lost my sense of security.

Aerin
18-06-2011, 08:48
the user agreement stressed you should not

Where does it do this?

I thought that the user agreement said that you shouldn't copy and paste people's words. I don't remember anything that said you shouldn't post a link to AT.

KMilliron
18-06-2011, 08:54
Yirabeth, are you a Stephen King fan? The big city small town comparison you made made me think of the ending of The Stand.

Back on topic- this button is not telling you to lock your doors, nobody is. In a small town crime and the such is still possible (and quite rampant in the town I grew up in.) This is just locking the barn door after the horse has been stolen or whatever that expression is. The only thing changed is mind set. Mind over matter, if you don't mind it doesn't matter. The only thing saying lock your doors is mindset.

Don't get me wrong, I can definitely see where you're coming from, and that entire situation must be absolutely horrendous.


I'm assuming a lot of my "Bring it on, I don't care" could just be my Aries talking :D

yirabeth
18-06-2011, 08:54
Where does it do this?

I thought that the user agreement said that you shouldn't copy and paste people's words. I don't remember anything that said you shouldn't post a link to AT.

Right. You are correct. In my naivete (which I no longer possess - but you'll find a LOT of people believed not posting people's words protected them from having their words available even via link around the internet....) I made the mistake of assuming posting a link was tantamount to posting people's words. Semantics there... :)

It is interesting though, that you miss the meat of my posting for one possible error in the backstory... :)

Aerin
18-06-2011, 08:58
Right. You are correct. In my naivete (which I no longer possess - but you'll find a LOT of people believed not posting people's words protected them from having their words available even via link around the internet....) I made the mistake of assuming posting a link was tantamount to posting people's words. Semantics there... :)

Not to me.

To me, a great and enormous deal of difference. See, I'd be out on the streets waving banners (metaphorically speaking) if it did more than post an internet link, and in fact if it posted an internet link to a specific post as against an entire thread.


It is interesting though, that you miss the meat of my posting for one possible error in the backstory... :)

Then you misunderstand me.

See above....:)

I suppose that I have always, always seen posting on a forum that is open to anyone in the world as a potential open door to absolutely anyone reading anything that I've posted - just my user name plus trust between me and anyone I've traded with standing between me and my "real world" identity. That's probably why, to me, not a lot changes.

Laura Borealis
18-06-2011, 09:01
See, I'd be out on the streets waving banners (metaphorically speaking) if it did more than post an internet link, and in fact if it posted an internet link to a specific post as against an entire thread.

That's easy enough to do, though. For instance I could post this link on my (non-existant) Facebook:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=2776526&postcount=159

I don't understand what the problem would be with that, can you explain?

KMilliron
18-06-2011, 09:03
That's quoting one single person. Like when writing a research paper? I always joked with my teacher saying "So if I copy one person it's plagerism, but if I copy a few it's research? Sweet."

Research=good plagerism=bad

Aerin
18-06-2011, 09:05
That's easy enough to do, though. For instance I could post this link on my (non-existant) Facebook:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=2776526&postcount=159

I don't understand what the problem would be with that, can you explain?

Well, only THEN would the other points re: encouraging people to link to specific people's posts would resonate more with me. Not really for me - I don't actually mind - but for the people who are worried. Because that would be more against the spirit of what I understand the forum to be.

People seem to be saying "it's putting my words on fb" and linking to a single post seems more like that than linking to a whole thread. That IS NOT what the button does though :)

Laura Borealis
18-06-2011, 09:07
Well, only THEN would the other points re: encouraging people to link to specific people's posts would resonate more with me. Not really for me - I don't actually mind - but for the people who are worried. Because that would be more against the spirit of what I understand the forum to be.

People seem to be saying "it's putting my words on fb" and linking to a single post seems more like that than linking to a whole thread.

*nods* That makes sense. Thanks for explaining.

Muir Aingeal
18-06-2011, 09:08
If getting rid of the button restores AT to its peaceful existence, then I'm in favour. Let's get back to the AT that we all know and love.


I think Topsy is the voice of reason here. Let's face it, this button HAS caused quite a bit of a ruckus since it's first appearance on the forum and maybe things should have been better left alone as in let sleeping dogs lie and all of that!

The other buttons are not innocents either but I think the Facebook button is especially bothersome to people for a variety of reasons, individual and not so much.

What is the answer? a poll? eliminating the button? I have no idea but we didn't have this kind of contention until this FB button showed up :mad:

Fire Cat
18-06-2011, 09:09
I suppose that I have always, always seen posting on a forum that is open to anyone in the world as a potential open door to absolutely anyone reading anything that I've posted [...]


Me, too. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

This is similar to EMS personnel assuming that everyone has communicable diseases and taking precautions.

Aerin
18-06-2011, 09:09
*nods* That makes sense. Thanks for explaining.

:)

Sometimes when I post I am explaining to myself too :D x

gregory
18-06-2011, 09:52
That's easy enough to do, though. For instance I could post this link on my (non-existant) Facebook:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=2776526&postcount=159

I don't understand what the problem would be with that, can you explain?

It has always (well, except for a brief accident period) been the case that you should not post someone else's words from here without their permission - so would doing that not be in breach of that ?

Laura Borealis
18-06-2011, 09:57
It has always (well, except for a brief accident period) been the case that you should not post someone else's words from here without their permission - so would doing that not be in breach of that ?

I think we are interpreting it differently. To me, a link back to AT is not posting someone's words. The link brings the reader to AT. The words are where they always were.

Solandia
18-06-2011, 10:17
As a lot of members seem very uncomfortable with the Facebook button, I've opted to remove it.

~ Solandia

Oink
18-06-2011, 10:19
As a lot of members seems very uncomfortable with the Facebook button, I've opted to remove it.

~ Solandia
Thank you! :love:

Starshower
18-06-2011, 10:21
Hi, friends. <beats head on table> I WAS WRONG I WAS WRONG I WAS WRONG, earlier in this thread!

Apparently, the personal reading exchanges in the subforum 'Faeries Oracle' under 'Oracle Study Groups' was never for subscribers only.

I had naively & stoopidly assumed it was, since the Tarot reading exchanges were. The site I found with links to it, quoting the first lines, found posts (under the nicknames used) on many forums across the net.

That will teach me to do my homework!
And never to do online reading exchanges involving personal issues (which I suppose they all do, to some extent) ever again either. :(

Laura Borealis
18-06-2011, 10:26
Thank you very much, Solandia. :heart:

Emily
18-06-2011, 10:28
Thank you Solandia for removing the FB button.

Muir Aingeal
18-06-2011, 10:29
Edit....

Topsy
18-06-2011, 10:30
As a lot of members seem very uncomfortable with the Facebook button, I've opted to remove it.

~ Solandia
I think this was the best decision. Everyone's concerns should be laid to rest now. Thankyou, Solandia :)

Muir Aingeal
18-06-2011, 10:31
As a lot of members seem very uncomfortable with the Facebook button, I've opted to remove it.

~ Solandia

Thank you very much :)

Starshower
18-06-2011, 10:52
Oh, thank you, Solandia! :) :heart:

Aurora369
18-06-2011, 11:15
As a lot of members seem very uncomfortable with the Facebook button, I've opted to remove it.

~ Solandia

Thanks!

Stormdancer
18-06-2011, 14:53
And as usual, I am late....!!! YAY !!!

IheartTarot
18-06-2011, 18:15
As a lot of members seem very uncomfortable with the Facebook button, I've opted to remove it.

~ Solandia

Thanks Solandia! :love:

Emily
18-06-2011, 19:03
There was quite a mixed reaction towards this FB button, some minded it, like me, others not so bothered. But one thing this thread highlighted is sometimes it's easy to get carried away and to post more of yourself on here than you would actually like. It is the nature of this forum, things get personal.

I've always watched what I've posted, I like being anonymous and invisible, I've always guarded my privacy. But saying that, this thread has made me tweak a few of my safeguards too, and I did have a couple of trails.

Linking is still there to posters who care to do it, so just be aware that the words you write are for public consumption.

firefrost
18-06-2011, 19:05
Thank goodness! I'm on facebook, and I agree with everything Aerin and Fire Cat say, but at the same time hated seeing friends distressed about the button.

And I'm especially glad if it means Jackdaw stays! :D

Bernice
18-06-2011, 19:07
A very welcome removal. Thank you Solandia.


Bee.

gregory
18-06-2011, 19:17
As a lot of members seem very uncomfortable with the Facebook button, I've opted to remove it.

~ Solandia

SOLANDIA, you ROCK :love: (I knew that but I reiterate it: you rock !) :love:

AND we get JD back (I hope).

jackdaw*
18-06-2011, 20:31
I woke up this morning to a frantic email essentially saying: Come back, the FB button is gone ...

First, THANK YOU, Solandia, for listening to us, and removing it. :heart: And thanks to those concerned people who PM'd/emailed me. You know who you are.

Second, this serves as a huge wake-up call for me (and others, I bet) about privacy. As others have posted, these purple pages (well, gray for me, as I go with the plain forum skin) have long had a "community" feel to it. But it's not a gated community. And now many of us are rattled. So this reminds me to be much more circumspect in my posts and what information I make available :laugh:

So I'm back, at least to see how well the community feel has weathered the storm.

gregory
18-06-2011, 20:46
:party: :love: :party:

firefrost
18-06-2011, 20:56
Yay! :D

Aerin
18-06-2011, 21:44
Thank goodness! I'm on facebook, and I agree with everything Aerin and Fire Cat say, but at the same time hated seeing friends distressed about the button.

And I'm especially glad if it means Jackdaw stays! :D

Exactly :).

I do hope that quite a few people have been alerted to the non-privacy of the internet by this.

xxx

Le Fanu
18-06-2011, 23:08
There was quite a mixed reaction towards this FB button, some minded it, like me, others not so bothered. But one thing this thread highlighted is sometimes it's easy to get carried away and to post more of yourself on here than you would actually like. It is the nature of this forum, things get personal.

I've always watched what I've posted, I like being anonymous and invisible, I've always guarded my privacy. But saying that, this thread has made me tweak a few of my safeguards too, and I did have a couple of trails.

Linking is still there to posters who care to do it, so just be aware that the words you write are for public consumption.So true. This thread has made me think. I was thinking about this anyway recently but this thread has made me think more. To be honest, one you make a mistake and find yourself traceable, there's no going back. I forget how many lurkers/guests view this place. I don't mind those so much. It's when people we know may come snooping and stalking. That's what riles me. I couldn't care less about the person reading this who I don't know. But here at AT, it is very easy to forget we are not entirely among friends, though we often feel like we can say anything.

We can still post/link things from here on fb, no problem. Always could. But thank you Solandia for listening.

Fire Cat
19-06-2011, 01:01
I think this thread has made all of us think. Those who cared a lot about it now can rest a little easier. Those of us who were a little lax perhaps are being a little more careful now :neutral:

kaleanna
19-06-2011, 01:16
As a lot of members seem very uncomfortable with the Facebook button, I've opted to remove it.

~ Solandia

thank you Solandia. :heart:

AJ
19-06-2011, 01:38
moot point

PathWalker
19-06-2011, 01:44
As a lot of members seem very uncomfortable with the Facebook button, I've opted to remove it.

~ Solandia

Thank you very much.
I've also learnt some things I dind't know before, and will be much more careful what I choose to write in future.
Pathwlker

Topsy
19-06-2011, 01:45
I think this thread has made all of us think. Those who cared a lot about it now can rest a little easier. Those of us who were a little lax perhaps are being a little more careful now
I couldn't agree more. I'm grateful that this thread has made me think about my privacy on the internet. Having grown up in the internet age, I'd always taken it for granted that my information was in the public domain, but now I've had a long think about the whole concept of being "traceable" online. I've decided to remove my profile photo and hide my email address from my AT account so I leave less of a footprint to follow.

Thanks, everyone, for what turned out to be a very interesting thread indeed. :)

IheartTarot
19-06-2011, 03:19
I am really loving all the new Locations. Some of you are cracking me up (especially jackdaw*'s Location yesterday)! :laugh:

Welcome back jackdaw*! :party:

Bernice
19-06-2011, 19:26
Regarding the above post (#196) by Lilli and your own words here;:
{b]By Kmilliron[/b]: My AT name is easily traced to my real name, as is my speach pattern, but as long as I'm careful I don't care. I doubt posting a link on FB in which "KMilliron" aka "Kirsten Milliron" has posted will have an insane irreversable impact on my social and/or work life.
um..........if you hope to advance in your work life, which you state is the US military, you might want to consider that the National Defence of a country will at certain levels of promotion, investigate family background and past involvements with groups etc. I believe this point was made in post #137 = "You may live to regret some of your publicly stated opinions later....".


Bee.

Sulis
19-06-2011, 21:50
A post discussing information posted in one of Aeclectic's forums not visible to those who aren't logged into the forum has been removed for review along with a couple of posts answering it.

Edited to add: Solandia has listened and the Facebook button is now gone so I think it's time to close this thread.

Sulis - Moderator