Any thoughts on "Virtue"

[Macavity]

The Thoth's Three of Wands as "Virtue" always seems to me to be a significant departure from other GD (e.g. RWS) meaning? Barrett's Ancient Egyptian deck (which includes minor pictorial images) is of a guy meditating at dawn in preparation for the day's activities. He says:

This card represents the establishment of strength. The preparation is complete, the action is about to begin. A change of state, from either planning to action or from inaction to action. Exertion after rest. Building upon one's past experiences. The birth of enterprise following the conception of the idea. The signs of coming success, an optimistic future. Partnerships are well aspected. The card indicates pride and perhaps a degree of extravagance or excess.

Looking up virtue in the dictionary, it's mostly about "moral goodness" or the cardinal virtues: Faith, Hope etc. ISTR it originates with the VIR-tue (latin) as manly characteristics - agreeing with the original and true use of "macho"? ;)

But... what does this card mean for you?

Macavity

[Moongold]

I am just learning the Thoth. Love this card. Lots of great energy in that strong orange.

The RWS 3 Wands shows a guy looking out on to the world in preparation for some great venture. This 3 Wands seems to be much more internally focused. 3 Wands binding together in a tight but open combination with Lotus flowers at the end of each Wand. My book says that the 3 Wands symbolize body, intellect and spirit, so the card is holistic.

So this 3 Wands gives me the sense of great internal strength and that glorious orange has the energy to go with it. The astrological assignation is Sun in Aries, so there is leadership there as well.

But Virtue? I’m not used to the key words being on the cards. Maybe the number 3 will help. 3 is the number of expressive joy, the kind that brings out the best in everyone, the combination of 1 and 2. There is lots of pleasure, romance and beauty attached to the number 3. So maybe this is the Key.

The quality of happy, confident strength that brings out the best in everyone – as good leadership does.

[Macavity]

Hi Moongold.

Some great thoughts on a nice card - Thanks. :) Yes, it's a odd one? I'm being a bit of a })'s advocate in trying to get it to fit in with the "Virtue" keyword. I think there's usually a lot of sense in Crowley's keywords but I do wonder where he was coming from on this occasion! I speculate Barrett's notions of preparation are indeed closer than just plain "Virtue" since, eventually, we're aiming for some sort of "completion" (sic) in the Four of wands! I suppose a difference in Waite's Three is that the task is already under way and we're waiting for... e.g. the ships to come in! ;)

For those of you who also like the colour - the Barrett AE also uses Crowley's colour scale, so feast your eyes...

Macavity

[celeste]

"do the right" thing card. I see it as telling us to use our energies and opportunies in conjunction with our higher morals(no matter how we may be tempted not to).

For example, I did a reading on a lady at work about 6 or 7 months ago. I didn't know her very well or what her circumstances were.

I did a CC. The first card I got was the three of wands crossed by the ace of pentacles. The third card(the heart of the matter)was The High Priestess. So I generally told her that something had been revealed to her and it involved a sudden influx-though temporary-of cash. Frankly, then the three of wands mystified me.
Then she told me that she had just won a large sum of money($3000 to be exact)using her last $5.00 at a slot machine-the only one she had ever played in her life-on a whim no less.
She had to make a decision on how to spend the money-blow it?like she was tempted to, or use it to make needed repairs to her home. She told me that in the end she had decided to use it to make the repairs. Then it all made sense to me. She "did the right thing"with the money. The three of wands was indicating that she had used her higher morals to decide how to use the money.

I also read for someone else at work, a few months earlier-again same situation-I hardly knew her(personally). The first card was again the 3 of wands,but this time reversed. Again I was confused because I judged her from her outward appearence as a good and decent person. It turned out that she was dealing with an alcoholic relative who was causing all kinds of grief and divided loyalties in her family. She was torn about how to deal with this person and was getting no support from her family. Basically, I told her that there was support in the community-she had only to seek it out.
So, again,once you hear the whole story it all makes sense and the 3 of wands explain themselves.

[Elle]

A question about "playing on a whim" an "the first time" - would the HP denote this aspect - the woman playing the slots? HP as Virgin or First Time? Is that possible?



Warmest,

Elle

[lunalafey]

{what time warp was I in?}
"virtue" almost too good, but is there sch a thing? I say that there is. Think about people who strive to do right in the eyes of another, they think that is good. They don't think about what is good for themselves. Too good for your oun good.
But then there are those that are so pure and kind. With an attitude like that they are bound for good fortune.

[celeste]

I interpreted that(to myself) as God giving her the money or leading her to it as a reward because he knew she would do the right thing. He gave her an opportunity for abundance or'revealed it'(the High priestess reveals secrets ).
That is just my idea and I may be totally off,but thats how I see it.

Goodness-or 'Virtue' is not always inherent. I think many times its a quality that humans struggle with-to act in accordance with what we know to be right for us and others-because temptation is always there. But it pays off in the end I think just in having peace in your mind.

[matfav]

3 of wands sun in aries, Virtue, Energy, action initiation, enterprise, fire to start new projects, purity and innocence.

some see it as binah in atziluth, pure spirit,
crowley saw it as the blossoming of the lotus.

[rainwolf]

The two of wands used to mix with the three of wands for me. Being the Thoth and RWS (for me) have much different styles, the Thoth showed me the difference (especially because of all the obvious systems used in the cards).

Anyway, to get back to topic, I think the wands go from new energy (ace) to a focused energy (2-dominion) and while the fire suit is still 'fresh' (above the abyss), it moves to innocent use of the energy to optimize the situation (3-virtue).

[Dean]

I love the colour of this card in the Thoth and for me this tells me to proceed with actions that have already been made, it's all about building or expanding on some plan or action before carrying out what needs to be done with integrity each day.

Looking at the Rider-waite card it shows a man looking over the land and sea, this could mean wanting to seek new adventures or opportunities. So matching each meaning of each card i think it's saying act in accordance with what actions are waiting for you.

[Abrac]

Interesting subject indeed. It is a bit puzzling to see what connection Virtue has with the 3/W.

My Encarta Dictionary lists one usage of the word which it classifies as "archaic."

7. effective force: the power, or efficacy, that something contains to do something (archaic).

This could be one possbile explanation for the title, Virtue, on this card.

-fof

[Rosanne]

I see Virtue as maybe 'right conduct' and the three of Wands representing leading the way by our own example. For example if we preach something that we are not doing, who would believe us? So I see it as a card of demonstrating as well: maybe leadership. Interesting thinking about the use of words like Virtue eh? Thanks for the contemplation fof ~Rosanne

[wizzle]

I don't see Crowley stray very far from the GD ideas for the minors. The GD title for the card is "Lord of Established Strength." What Crowley adds, for the threes is the combination of the title of the GD card with it's manifestation in Binah. Thus, he associates Established Strength as manifesting as Virtue. His discussions of the other threes are consistent with this point of view. The quality of the elements manifest and stablize in Binah.

However, he makes a distinction between manifestation in Binah versus manifestation in Chesed, which is below the abyss.

Also, Crowley uses all of the GD astrological associations for the minors. He just adds his bit.

[rachelcat]

My Encarta Dictionary lists one usage of the word which it classifies as "archaic."

7. effective force: the power, or efficacy, that something contains to do something (archaic).

Yes, I'm sure this meaning of virtue is at least part of the appropriateness of that title to this card.

To me 3s mean "Form," as in Chochmah = Force and Binah = Form. Wands = energy, so 3 Wands = the form energy takes = movement, change.

(Ack, now we're getting into 2 Coins!! You see why I don't like keywords/titles!)

How do you SEE energy? By the movement or change it causes. (My husband teaches 8th grade science. I'm thinking there's "potential energy," and then the ball rolls down the inclined plane . . .)

I have struggled with this card. Thanks for all the other ideas in this thread. I like the idea of "do the right thing," bringing together action and morality meanings of virtue.

[Lillie]

There is a way of using the word 'virtue' that has nothing to do with morals.

ie.
I am in charge of this situation by virtue of my greater knowledge.

You can beat the crap out of me by virtue of your black belt in karate.

[siouxj73]

I have to confess that I picked up the Thoth for the first time yesterday, but thought I would weigh into this discussion anyway.

If you pick up some of the older tomes of Knightly adventures (such as the Arthurian legends) you will find plenty of descriptions of "virtuous knights". This doesn't mean they were virtuous in the same way we would see it today. It meant that they did what they needed to do for the crown (ie society at large.) So I think Roseanne has a point about the meaning of Virtue in this instance being more about right action - bravery in the face of fear, purity of heart and inner strength that allows you to perform in the way that you know is correct no matter the outcome.

BB

sioux.

[Aeon418]

I'm still convinced that Crowley's use of the word 'Virtue' points toward action. The astrological attribution of Sol in Aries practically shouts action. Spring time !!! :D

If there had been room on the card I reckon it would have said, "Do what thou wilt", with the emphasis on the 'Do'.

[similia]

I stumbled across a great Crowley quote (which I have promptly lost so will have to paraphrase) in which he says the word "Virtue" is etymologically related to the word "Virility". That makes sense in the context of the 3 of Wands.

[catlin]

Guess he is playing with the latin word "vir" for man and latin "virtitudinis" (sp??) similar to English "virtue".

[Aeon418]

Virtue (Greek αρετη; Latin virtus) is moral excellence of a man or a woman. A virtue is a character trait valued as being good. The conceptual opposite of virtue is vice.

The Greek word αρετη (arete) has not come into ordinary English. The English word virtue is derived from the Latin word virtus which is in turn from vir/viris meaning man in the masculine sense. The word virtus means the male function conceived in terms of strength or force; hence the power to accomplish. [The different Latin word vis/vis means simply power; ancient grammarians were unable to distinguish the two words.] Cf. Ernout-Meillet, Dictionnaire étymologique de la langue latine: Histoire des mots.

Due to ancient social norms and these linguistic subtleties, virtus was sometimes identified with the masculine warlike virtues such as courage. This has sometimes led to a sense of irony concerning the supposed etymology. In English the word virtue is often used to refer to a woman's chastity. As the philosopher Leo Strauss expresses it, "The mystery of Western thought is how a term that originally meant the manliness of a man came to mean the chastity of a woman."
I think we can safely lay the blame for the mystery of Virtue at the door of Christianity. Crowley was very much aware of the etymology of the word and used it in it's original sense, Virtus/Vir/Viris - 3 of Wands ~ Sol in Aries.

[catlin]

Thanks, Aeon418, for the quote, now I see I also have to brush up my latin for understanding beasty boy, LOL.

[Aeon418]

Thoughts on the 3 of Wands, Virtue, and the New Age movement from The Truth about the Tarot by Gerald Suster. (a very good book by the way;)) Some people may think that Suster wanders from the point a little, when in actual fact I think he is spot on with his remarks which reveal why so many find Crowley's use of the word Virtue a little odd in connection with the 3 of Wands.
The Three of Wands is called Virtue. This is a word which has been grossly debased. It is a word exalted by a very popular but very feeble movement called The New Age. One sighs in despair over its fatuity.

This movement is essentially well-intentioned. However, in the critical times in which we live, good intentions alone are definitely not enough; actions must match words and there are few things more contemptible than fine words followed by shabby actions. The present writer is aware that he may have many New Age readers. He regards them as being honestly misguided at best. There is certainly no disgrace in being honestly misguided: it can happen to the best of us. However there is no excuse for not trying to do things better than before.

'Virtue' is a very New Age word. Where does it come from? It comes from the Latin Vir - a Man. The Roman Virtus therefore expresses healthy, natural male qualities. In these current, degenerate times - which the Hindus rightly call the Kali Yuga, the Dark Age - we find a feeble flop in the present comprehension of 'virtue'. Would you rather meet a virtuous man or a virile man? The answer is obvious to all who have not been bemused, abused and confused by ludicrous notions of what it means to be 'spiritual', another New Age buzz word.

The word 'spiritual', which used to mean something important, has like 'virtue' degenerated into meaning something feeble, like a cup of scummy, lukewarm milk. Would you rather meet someone who is spiritual or someone who is spirited? Again, the question is as easy as the answer is obvious.

New Age readers are strongly urged to consider the following propositions, prompted by Virtue - the 3 of Wands in Binah (Understanding) - and certainly not inspired by the sordid motives which enable those with a little but not much occult knowledge or understanding to make money from pandering to the prejudices of said readers. The present writer hopes and trusts that the present reader is not a gullible dupe.

a - New Age is merely softened down and tarted up Christianity; an outmoded religion once adhered to by primitive mammalian primates based upon ludicrous notions of sin and guilt. Under Christianity, perfectly natural desires were called 'sinful'. Under New Age, you still have to be guilty as sin for the same, for the words and phrases are 'unspiritual' - whatever that may mean - or 'not virtuous'. Whatever words are used, people still end up feeling guilty over perfectly natural and honourable feelings like love, hate, lust, anger et al.

b - New Age is intellectually sloppy. If you are New Age, you can believe anything you like - as long as it doesn't work.

c - New Age is horribly middle class. In common with any sensible individual, the present writer does not care if you are upper class, middle class or working class: it's just that if you're middle class, you should do something about it. In England , at any rate, the upper classes and the working classes share the same code of honour: observers are confused too often because the same code is expressed in different forms of the English language. Although there are - thank heavens! - exceptions, the average middle class individual has no code of honour. Anyone with no code of honour is a slave. It doesn't matter if your chains are of gold or of plastic - you are still a slave. This is why one can all too often see crass examples such as those who bleat about changing the world, then freak out like a shell-shocked invalid on account of a cigarette being smoked with joy in a Glastonbury tea-room. This is why one can hear whingeing nonsense whenever there is a serious meditation practice from some New Age twits who whine to be excused on the quicksands of: 'Oh - but we're professional meditators.' How is a 'professional' meditator to be distinguished from one who meditates? - apart from the obvious fact that they're probably conning the gullible for money? No. This won't do at all and it's high time someone said so.

d - New Age is dishonest. The beliefs its adherents hold contradict one another. If you are New Age, you can be a Hindu and a Buddhist. Hindus believe there is a soul (atman). Buddhists believe there isn't (annata). You can't believe both at the same time. Yes, of course, it is said that above the Abyss, all contradictions resolve themselves. This is true - as the Tarot shows us - but the present writer doubts if there are currently more than 93 individuals on the globe capable of mating the contradictions in self-annihilation. Below the Abyss, Reason is King. Facts must be accurate and Logic must be coherent. Unless you get that right, you will get nothing right at all - and New Age doesn't.

e - New Age consists of sentimental slop, catering to half-witted, panic stricken, middle class prejudice. The Universe is not like that. Let us remember, therefore, that the Master has spirit and vir - and vir applies exactly to an acknowledged female Master like Madame Blavatsky.

[BrightEye]

The 3 of wands keeps coming up in my readings in relation to what's holding someone back in a relationship situation. The 6 of cups is what both of them seem to desire but the 3 of wands is holding one of them back.

The idea of wanting 'to do the right thing' as was suggested in one post applies here I think, which is a nice thought - someone who doesn't just jump in for fun. Also being new to this kind of relationship - the Virgin/First Time aspect.

Any other thoughts?

[tink27]

What if we use the phrase "the highest integrity" for virtue? What if they are to work through issues of emotional honesty? The major challenge would be finding out what they feel opposed to how they think they should feel. Accepting how one truly feels allows them to be honest with others and with themselves.

Perhaps what's holding them back is they aren't sure of their own Self or identity - maybe up to now they've been living to please others. Now they have a need to reconnect to their own needs and desires.

Just a thought.

tink

[Knightward]

The 3 of wands keeps coming up in my readings in relation to what's holding someone back in a relationship situation. The 6 of cups is what both of them seem to desire but the 3 of wands is holding one of them back.


The Six of Cups is Sun in Scorpio. Scorpio is a passionate, jealous, long term sign typically concerned with rebirth, evolution and sex/power. Since the Thoth refers to this card as Pleasure, it is easy to desire those things, and hard to give any one of them up for most people. Scorpio is a fixed sign, so this fits. Typically, I would assume for most people, it would take awhile to reach this level of contentment in a relationship.

Virtue, the 3 of Wands is the Sun in Aries. As wands as an action suit, I would venture that Virtue refers to the actual process of puting Words into Action. Aries is a very direct, implusive sign. It likes to start projects, and may not finsih them as it only works on things for as long as they are interested.

So it could very well be that both people want to enjoy the Six of Cups, but the person who has the 3 of Wands might want it *now* possiably by skipping all the work nessercary to reach the other point.

How I am reading this, is the 3 of Wands person wants to be sucessful and reach that level, but wants to do it quickly and may be attempting to skip various phases a relationship may have to go through to get there.

-Fenier

[BrightEye]

The two people in question are not together (yet). 3 of Wands is holding one of them back in getting together. That's how I see it at least.

Both responses make a lot of sense. I have a niggling feeling that 'Virtue' may also mean that one of them has reservations because of religion. I'm not sure but that's the vibes I get. And perhaps not enough energy or stayingpower to overcome these kind of obstacles?

[Knightward]

Both responses make a lot of sense. I have a niggling feeling that 'Virtue' may also mean that one of them has reservations because of religion. I'm not sure but that's the vibes I get. And perhaps not enough energy or stayingpower to overcome these kind of obstacles?

That could be. It could also be that this person does not interest them enough that can see a long term relationship coming from it. If it was more relgious based, personally I would think other cards would show up, but I've been wrong before! ;)

As I didn't do the spread, I am just guessing, but I am hope I am being helpful.

-Fenier