What cards do you always associate with a "set" meaning, no matter what?

Chiriku

I have seen the merit to the arguments of the "set meanings, system-oriented" approach to reading, and to the "interpret whatever image is set before you however you feel called to" approach, and over the years, I--like probably many readers--have ended up combining elements of both approaches.

I take pleasure and intellectual stimulation (for me, one in the same) from approaching each deck as a potential system unto itself and trying to set aside other ideas to focus on what each deck creator has to contribute. I read the literature associated with each deck, whether that be the creator's own, or third party commentaries about the creator's vision (a la the various Crowley/Thoth commentaries), or supplemental lit such as DRACULA for the Robert Place Vampire Tarot.

And yet...and yet...

Some "set" meanings are so evocative to me, so archetypal or powerful or empowering to me, that they sit in my imagination and won't let go, not even when confronted with a deck system or card image that is blatantly disassociated from it or even oppositional to it.

Here are a few examples:

-- THE LOVERS: I always see the Marseilles-style element of "choice" in this card, and mention it in almost every reading I give, even if only as an introductory remark preceding my card-specific image analysis. The concept of Choice on a cosmic, greater-mystery level has just gripped me and won't let me go, even when the deck I'm looking at gives me a rather earthy picture of two people in a forest glade, naked and entwined.

-- STRENGTH-- I have encountered a few decks where the human figure is stereotypically strong (usually a brawny man with muscles bulging) but I don't care what the image shows, and I don't care that there are many historically early deck examples of Strength in that mode (with the allegory of Hercules, etc); my mind persists in ascribing the RWS image of a beast (whether internal or external to the human subject) being tamed by a more quietly self-confident, gentle form of strength. That type of strength is the more impressive to me on an intellectual and emotional level, and I interpret the card as such irrespective of the image set before me.

Now I put the questions before you:

1. Which cards does your consciousness leap to associate with a particular pre-determined meaning, irrespective of what image lies before you at the moment?

2. Why do you think you have attached yourself so thoroughly to this particular meaning, for this particular card?

3. Do you feel limited by this association and wish you could train yourself out of it, or do you glean something of value from having certain cards come up with the same core meaning no matter which deck or spread you use?


Would be interesting to see if people have more examples of Majors than of Minors. I gave two Majors as examples, but in fact the Minors are my favorite part of a tarot deck and I have more "essential meaning" cards from among those.
 

Zephyros

while I primarily use the Thoth, I started, like many people, with the RWS, so my readings are colored by that deck to a certain extent. However, I think that although the two "systems" have differences, the whole "Tarot" concept is based on a certain pattern of sorts, so the Lovers in one deck may have differences with the same card in another, but the base is more or less the same (I can already see some Tarot fundamentalist burning me in effigy!).

The Thoth Lovers is an alchemical card heavily implying (at least in my very humble opinion) duality of opposites, polarities and the attraction between them(later on, in the Art card these elements merge into one) and, on a "mortal"level, people doing things that are opposite what they would usually do and finding success in this, attractions people between people and things that would not normally be attracted to each other and the like. I guess cosmic choice could fit in there; for me it's another interpretation enriching my own, so there, I've learned something new already.

Now, strength is even more interesting, since in a way, the image of a beautiful woman and Hercules aren't that different for me in the concept of the card. Sure, Hercules has brute force, but that strength came from the Gods, so for me it still says, in a nutshell, mind over matter, or spirituality over aggression. Even the Thoth with it's radically different Strength, Lust, still has that root association for me, albeit in a different way, so at least in that card there's room to move around some.

Sure, we can discuss breasts here and wombs of existence there but such arguments belong in the domain of Tarot "intellectuals" like us and mean little to querents. As Ecclesiastes says "One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever." Everything is built on something else, and every new Tarot system is to a certain extent built upon the old one.

So, after all that rambling, I don't think that the fact that you "stick" to card meanings regardless of the deck to a certain extent that strange, since the root is all the same. Besides, although many decks may vary in their interpretations, many of them, like the Dracula, deck are based on the RWS, not on an "other system" like the Marseilles for instance, or the Thoth, so there even more the root is the same.

However, I do get what you say about the Lovers. A pet peeve of mine with the RWS is that the Lovers is not differentiated enough from cards like the Two of Cups, which really, really confused me at first.
 

Morwenna

I see what you mean about the Lovers; in fact some of the older decks call it "L'Amoreux," "The Lover." One. With choices right there on the card. :) But others call the extra woman a mother-in-law, or even a clergyman (those long robes and the imprecise artwork make for androgyny). So take your pick, in essence.

Try as I might, I can't think of a good answer to this question, though it intrigues me. I guess I'll have to go off and think about it some more. I do think that some of the minors tend to stick in my head as having "core" meanings, but I can't say I've never gone with the flow of a particular deck.
 

Carla

8 of Wands always means quickness or communication to me. That's the first one that springs to mind.
 

VGimlet

1. Which cards does your consciousness leap to associate with a particular pre-determined meaning, irrespective of what image lies before you at the moment?

2. Why do you think you have attached yourself so thoroughly to this particular meaning, for this particular card?

3. Do you feel limited by this association and wish you could train yourself out of it, or do you glean something of value from having certain cards come up with the same core meaning no matter which deck or spread you use?

For me it would be -
4 of Swords. Take a break. Time to rest, recover, etc.

I tend to associate this more with RWS clones than other decks, but for me the meaning seems to hold fairly true.

I do try and stretch the meaning from my inital, "oh, that card" response. Depending on surrounding cards it can mean other things as well, and so I try to not always rely on my rote response.

I have a few others, but they seem to be easier for me to avoid my old memorized meanings, unless they fit.
 

lilangel09

1. Which cards does your consciousness leap to associate with a particular pre-determined meaning, irrespective of what image lies before you at the moment?

Pretty much all of them. For example, sometimes I use the RWS 3 of Pents meaning for the TdM.

3. Do you feel limited by this association and wish you could train yourself out of it, or do you glean something of value from having certain cards come up with the same core meaning no matter which deck or spread you use?

I did recently. It was because what I felt from the deck didn't match what I knew. But what I knew was actually narrowing my meanings because I wasn't allowing the image to speak to me. It's nice that I have these associations to draw from, but I try not to get too comfortable with those core meanings.

It's important for me to focus with the image lying before me because once I stop listening to what I get from the images and start listening to pre-determined meanings, I start to feel very limited.

I do have a very general meaning in my mind for all of the cards, but it's a conglomeration of experiences and study from different decks. Sometimes the general meaning I have is attached to a certain deck.
 

Le Fanu

8 of Wands always means quickness or communication to me. That's the first one that springs to mind.
Me too. And the Tower is always a sudden something. These are the main ones. I could list others if I had a think but these are the most immediate ones which I suppose says something.
 

nisaba

None, really. For every one I can think of or which has been lsited here, I can remember reading it differently at times.
 

Trogon

The short answer; none ... and all.

To some extent, each card, for me, has some basic associations. However, each card also has a lot of different images which can draw my focus and alter the interpretation of the card in a given reading.

For example; the Chariot. All about pulling together opposites, maintaining control, right? I had one reading some years back (your question brought this to mind) - I was using the Rohrig Tarot and the Chariot came up reversed ... I felt that there would be a car accident ... and soon. A few days later the querent's brother was injured in a single-vehicle accident. Certainly loss of control, but not what I would normally associate with the Chariot.

I suppose the closest I come to a card which I always associate with a relatively narrow interpretation is the 10 of Swords. Well, 9 of Swords too I guess. I have yet to have one of them show up in any kind of a positive manner. Still, I can see it possibly happening.
 

The crowned one

Tarot for me is a system, basically I use a modified G.D. system. You can play cards with a tarot deck, there are names for those games, it is not divination. You can use the cards for self improvement, that is not reading tarot as far as I am concerned. You can pull meanings out of the air based on your whim and mood, that is not tarot as far as I am concerned too, it is using tarot cards for...something else. Tarot is a system, knowledge based, and it takes a lot of memorization in the early learning stages. The stronger your foundation the wider your interpretations can take given the deeper understanding of each card you have. As my friend Marina said: "If any card could mean anything, it'd be the same as they meaning nothing, and you would only need one card."

Each card has a intrinsic component, and I must work from that aspect, just like each string on a instrument is tuned to a certain note or frequency. These epiphenomenalisms some put to the cards are fine to me, if it is taken from the inherent nature of the card you are interpreting, not just "how I feel about it" That IS divination, yes, but it is not tarot to me.

A "Set" meaning no, but there are intentionalities built into the cards, and the system I use. Cups coins swords wands, all mean something as tarot cards, I work from within that, the more I know the greater my base. If I forget something I learned because I have not used that aspect of the card in sometime I lose that ability to add it to my reading, knowledge of the meaning of the cards can only add to your understanding not take away.

All 78 cards have meaning to me, if a card did not I might be tempted to take it out of the deck. ;)