Tarot the CCG; feedback & support?

[jettemse]

My first time posting at Aeclectic! Yay! :)

Throughout high school I attempted to produce several tarot decks, one being a theme of entirely goddesses, which has already been done I've come to find out months later. Now that I am in college, I've been eerily drawn back to Tarot in a number of ways -- through wikipedia, finding my old goddess tarot card concepts which I had hidden behind a computer monitor -- even stumbling upon a easy tarot book in my limited 'occult' book shelf.

I'm an artist; I'm going to school for art, and while I've had many accomplishments, anything that I've striven to complete from my own creative imagination -- in terms of a long hall project has never come to light. I think setting my mind to complete a tarot deck with all of your support, as well as my unbridled determination could break this losing streak. :)

On the wikipedia page, it mentions how tarot was used as a card game, which was something closer to pinochle or cribbage, where you matched suits and such. That made me think. For the most part, tarot cards aren't being used for games but more so focused on the cartomancy it was also designed for. I've yet to stumble upon a modern tarot deck which expressed the opportunity or directions to incorporate it into a game -- maybe someone will enlighten me? However, one of the biggest things in card games right now is the development of TCGs or CCGs. (Trading Card Games/Customizable Card Games) -- Buyers purchase cards in either decks, sets, or "boosters" (luck of the draw random packs) to produce a playable deck which they can then go head to head against an opponent. Maybe some of you are familiar with Magic the Gathering, Yu-Gi-Oh, Vs System, etc? (albeit the younger generation)

My concept is to create a CCG Tarot card game, in which is serves two purposes; cartomancy with an actual playable card game aspect to it. And, I'm thinkin' mythology. Greek mythology (at least for the preliminary idea). The major arcana would be the mostly based on deities from the Greek pantheon, with a few exceptions. Namely, the tower = Mount Olympus, Strength would be a card bonus (providing +x amount of strength onto another card), etc. The Devil would be hades, The Priestess - Hekate, Zeus as the emperor, Hera as the empress, etc, etc. Each would have their own attacks, defenses, and flavor text as to what they can do. I was thinking about interlacing the value of what they can achieve based on their tarot card keywords.

The minor arcana, I thought, would be divvied up in the following manor;

SWORDS -> Familiars & Monsters (Herakles, Atalanta, Chimera, etc.)
CUPS -> Events & Locations (Troy, The Underworld, River Styx, etc.)
WANDS -> Worshipers & Temples ("Favor" -- buys deities. Having their respective temple in play, etc.)
COINS -> Power Items & Magic (poseidon's trident, shapeshifting, etc.)

I was thinking of incorporating classic tarot threads, ie; the celtic cross spread as being the preliminary concept board. I'm thinking each player draws ten cards, and lays out their spread as they desire. However, the game spread would work backwards rather than forward, with positions 10-7 being the "sideboard"; where people should lay down any and all non-fighting cards (temples, locations, etc.) with the major points being the major arcana, heroes, monsters, etc.

That's my basic concept for setting things up at the moment. Locations would provide bonuses for certain card types. Ie; the underworld would probably provide a +x in strength with underworld dwelling cards (cereberus, harpies, hades, persephone, etc.)

That's pretty much my concept; I don't think I've left anything out. Do you guys think this would be something I should keep pursuing? I think it would bridge two very different groups of people -- the gamers, and those who are more interested in the divination aspect of tarot; with the option remaining to be able to play them if they desired. I'd love any and all feedback, if you think it sucks, or I need to work on something, do let me know. I value all criticism. :)

Jette

[Mewt]

I can tell that you've been thinking about this for some time. I like the concept, It's different, and thats good. So their would only be around 36 characters/monsters? But, you said not all of the MA will be character. so actually less then that. Will that be enough? Other then that, I can't wait to see this thing....

Edit: Also, the shape-shifting card would allow one to change the spread, with each spread providing a certain bonus or something. But with this, their would have to be a set number of listed spreads one can use.

[jettemse]

Around 36, you'd be correct. I don't have all the logistics mapped out yet, haha. In the game of magic the gathering, in a 60 card deck one would typically expect 15-30 characters; as there are mana in play, instants, sorceries, etc. I think 36 would be plenty. :)

I think I could have a set number of spreads, where people can choose how quick of a game they'd desire to play. ie; a past, present, future spread would be a hell of a lot quicker than some of the more complex ones. There is a game called Vampire, The Eternal Masquerade that separates character cards and other cards into two different piles. I think it would be beneficial to do the same as well with the major and minor arcana?

Should this be successful, I could see people implementing all sorts of myth sets, from egyptian to celtic; allowing optimal play, mixing and matching, and total customization of one's tarot deck, let alone game deck.

I never even thought about spread bonuses. That would be a cool thing to have! Especially if players got to pick their spreads to begin with, with a spread-card limit. (any spread containing 10 cards, any spread containing seven, etc.) IE; egyptian themed decks could build a pyramid spread to get bonuses; greek mythos decks could implement the roman numeral I or a "column" shape. celts with a celtic cross, norse maybe a hammer, and so on. nifty idea. thank you so much for being brave enough to brainstorm with me. :)

other shapeshifting cards would consist of cards that deities can play to affect another card. not sure what i *really* want, or how I want to give a tarot twist to it; but i was intially thinking about things like curses. You know, circe turning men into pigs. Artemis turning hunters into deers for watching her bathe. Zeus turning into a white bull, Athena turning Arachne into a spider -- etc, etc, etc. Other effective curses.

If anyone has any thoughts or opinions, I would love to be enlightened. :) <3

Jette

[Mabuse]

My first time posting at Aeclectic! Yay! :)


On the wikipedia page, it mentions how tarot was used as a card game, which was something closer to pinochle or cribbage, where you matched suits and such. That made me think. For the most part, tarot cards aren't being used for games but more so focused on the cartomancy it was also designed for. I've yet to stumble upon a modern tarot deck which expressed the opportunity or directions to incorporate it into a game -- maybe someone will enlighten me?

Jette

Tarot games are still played today mostly in European countries such as France, Italy and Austria. I'm one of the few American players. Modern Tarot game decks usually have trumps and court cards double ended like modern playing cards. Some decks like the ones made in France or Austria will have the same suit signs as the Poker deck.
Here's an example of a modern Tarot game deck often called the Tarot Nouveau.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarot_Nouveau

[Mabuse]

Something similar to what you're proposing has been published not too long ago. It's not exactly a "collectible" game but it's similar to Magic The Gathering. It was called Mystick Domination
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/647/mystick-domination

I am skeptical about collectible type games as there are gamers who now express a dislike for it and a newer CCG may not be able to achieve the same success as MTG or Yugioh. I suspect that CCG's may have fallen out of fashion.

Since the mid-70's when fantasy themed games such as Dungeons and Dragons first appeared, the Tarot has often been used as a tool in these types of games. There have even been decks published specifically for certain RPG's.

[Mewt]

I've known that it was a regular card game back in the day, which is why I don't believe in cartomancy. Now yes Magick Domination is similar, but i believe that Jette's idea is more flexible and can be extended more-so then MD.I like you idea regarding the spreads. But for certain spreads you would need a certain amount of cards, like the pyramid spread, you would need six cards, but the column would be around eight, the Celtic cross would be around nine(if i'm thinking of the correct cross lol) And i got to thinking maybe the past present future thing could be like a sudden death or something. But on the spreads, it should be even for both persons, instead of a pyramid vs a cross, as the cross would have more cards(at least three more). And curses would go with the coins as they are a type of magic. Now with the mix-match customized decks, a neutral spread would be needed to give a bonus that a straight one-themed deck would get from it's spread.

Hmmm....

Now on the piles, idk, I mean it would make sense to separate them, but their needs to be a structure, something more then put you monsters here and everything else here. lol The Spreads should have designated areas for those cards. But those spreads should be tweak-able. So again, idk.

Yes, i see that as well, Zeus fighting alongside Thor to kill a dragon or whatever lol. Now with that, my only question would be, what of fan-made decks? If one were to make a deck fit for the game, will let them use their fantasy deck that may not use any real world mythology?

Edit: Also, when theres other themed decks involved, will they be set as in the Death card s always a monster, as the world card may not be? Or flexibe, where the Egyption themed Death is an item(i beleive they would weight the hearts of those that died with a gold one, and only innocent hearts would weigh the same, or something like that lol), and the Norse death would be a monster(I'm thinking of Oroboros, the snake biting it's tail, going in circles around the tree).

[Mabuse]

I've known that it was a regular card game back in the day,
It IS, not was, a regular card game still played today. Tarot never stopped being a game. It's just that it has yet to be imported to countries such as the US.

[Mewt]

Then technically, it has, just with a new look thats more simple. Playing cards.The suits changed to hearts, diamonds, spades, and clubs, instead of coins wands swords cups.

[Mewt]

Are you still thinking of doing this? I mean i'm willing to help If you want.