Do Tarot games attract atheists/agnostics?

As an atheist game player myself with several blogs, forums, and groups concerning the Tarot/Tarock family of card games, I have found that the rather small number of Tarot players in countries such as the United States, Canada and Great Britain, are often atheists or agnostics. I do see some interest in these games by a few Christians and Pagans but they seem to be outnumbered by the free thinkers. Pagan Tarot players outnumber the Christian players. I have my own theories as to why this might be the case. Any thoughts from forum members on this.

If you're talking about the games, why should that make any difference, more than, say, Monopoly or chess. If by "atheist" you mean "secular" then I think most people are; religion is something many people do on weekends or at family gatherings. Of course, I don't like any religion, I take what I want from all, commit to none. Besides, religious, or "spiritual" people can be just as free thinking as atheists (in my experience, many atheists are just as closed minded as the staunchest fundamentalists), if not more. Belief is elastic, it doesn't have to be something likea Social Security number that defines you for all time.

I've never 'played' tarot as a game, though i know that's what it originally was and that some people still do. But I do read and collect cards, and most def a long-term atheist. I don't see the problem, and if someone was game playing, there'd be even less potential problem i imagine.

While I had been aware of tarot being used for games (I had long had a French suited pack but lacked the French to read the instructions), I discovered the games while studying philosophy via Michael Dummett's work. It wasn't something that I expected to see on his list of publications and so I obtained a copy of The Game of Tarot and never looked back. I can't tell you how many hours were spent in my third year playing various games! I suppose, though Dummett was not atheist by any means, you do find more atheists and agnostics in philosophy than theists.

It is a funny thing but I do find antheists and agnostics are more likely to be willing to try the games than others who, in my experience, find it harder to overcome the perception of the cards as occult. Such people will either see them as something they shouldn't mess with or as something it would be wrong or disrepectful to play a game with.

I remember a couple of years ago being on a train with my niece and brother in law. We were playing a game of tarot with a French suited pack, which they found easier to use. As the train became crowded, a man asked to sit with us and my brother in law asked if he would like to join our game. He looked disturbed when the name tarot was mentioned and even after I explained that this was a simple game pack, with none of the images associated with the occult, he still got up and said "...I don't mess with tarot cards, I'll find somewhere else to sit."

This kind of response is not uncommon to me but it is hard to draw any reliable conclusions from the sample of my own experience.

I would venture that an atheist or agnostic is less likely to believe in the supernatural or occult and would therefore not be troubled by any such preconceptions.

Closrapexa, I don't think that secular is what is meant. Secularism is the belief that religion and state should be kept apart, and while many secularists are atheist, many are also religious - even devoutly. Atheism means belief that there is no God, although many in recent years seem keen to use it to mean lack of belief in God. Certainly, closed mindedness is not unique to religion but I do think that religions can be particularly prone to it, as faith allows them to trump any reason, while the closed minded faithless lack even that as an excuse.

I would say that I'm not completely comfortable with the disctinction between the religious and the free thinking. There can be different arguments for not making that distinction, one being that religions are not always held as objective beliefs but sometimes as subjective ones - that is, neither true nor false but rather expressions of how a person experiences the world and brings meaning and value to it.

Hi Mabuse, you maybe right, that Christians think, GOD rules the world, it is GOD's decision if someone becomes ill/dies early, looses his job or whatever. GOD decides about your fate and not any cards in the world.
There was a time, when I was really interested in all things Pagan, I bought Pagan-based Tarot decks and that helped me to understand Paganism. I thought I would find answers in the nature,i.e.
Now I would say, I am atheist, and I prefer dark decks and cat decks.
BC

Not sure what you mean by "playing". But I think that at least tarot reading can be seen a form of spirituality. Then Tarot and religion will be sort of competitors for spirituality. And unlike the choice between ham or cheese (where I always go for the ham AND cheese sandwich of course), spirituality seems to be something more exclusive, as if the one kind of spirituality is "diluted" or disabled when you experience another. Something like that.

I don't know if this is a good enough thought for a general rule. But for me tarot definitely is a source of spirituality. If I was religous then maybe I would need it less.

If you really mean game playing then I don't know. The spirituality idea might hold for role playing games like Dungeons and Dragons for example.

And I know a couple of christians who not only think that anything occult is the work of the devil (competition for spirituality), but rather think that any kind of card game is at least dodgy. And if it bears the name "tarot", the worse it would be. This attiitude probably isn't uncommon at all.

trzes said:

Not sure what you mean by "playing". But I think that at least tarot reading can be seen a form of spirituality. Then Tarot and religion will be sort of competitors for spirituality. And unlike the choice between ham or cheese (where I always go for the ham AND cheese sandwich of course), spirituality seems to be something more exclusive, as if the one kind of spirituality is "diluted" or disabled when you experience another. Something like that.

I don't know if this is a good enough thought for a general rule. But for me tarot definitely is a source of spirituality. If I was religous then maybe I would need it less.

If you really mean game playing then I don't know. The spirituality idea might hold for role playing games like Dungeons and Dragons for example.

And I know a couple of christians who not only think that anything occult is the work of the devil (competition for spirituality), but rather think that any kind of card game is at least dodgy. And if it bears the name "tarot", the worse it would be. This attiitude probably isn't uncommon at all.

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Mabuse is talking about the family of trick taking card games which were tarot's earliest recorded use. The games are still played throughout much of continental Europe today. In Germany, these games have died out but for Cego - to my knowledge that is the last surviving tarot game there. However, you might also have played the German game of Tarock - which, while not played with tarot cards, was created from those games.

As an - agnostic would be as close to a definition as I get - I am spectacularly uninterested in tarot as a game. (And it isn't that I don't like games in general - it is just too like bridge or whist for my liking !) Is this significant or even of interest to you, mabuse ? I have no idea

gregory said:

As an - agnostic would be as close to a definition as I get - I am spectacularly uninterested in tarot as a game. (And it isn't that I don't like games in general - it is just too like bridge or whist for my liking !) Is this significant or even of interest to you, mabuse ? I have no idea

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I've long had an interest in different board and card games played around the world. As a teenager, I would often check out books in my local libraries about the different varieties of Chess and Shogi played in countries such as China and Japan and some obscure board games such as Rythmomachia. As a game, I find Tarot to have some aesthetic qualities I find pleasing in two player board games like Chess. The Ace of Trumps or Pagat/Petit in these games appears to play a similar role to the King in Chess. One thing I find interesting is the varing complexity levels ranging from the simple Piemont games such as Scarto to the complex Illustrated Tarokk games played in Hungary. I've become much more interested in Tarot games in recent years since gaining internet access as I now have the tools to obtain more information about them.

hmmm...what I will say about Christianity is, that like many other religions, it specifically denounces the use of any fortune telling means ("thou shalt not suffer a witch to live"), because that would mean the person had no "faith" in whatever God. Having faith implies no need for fortune telling, because whatever God of whatever religion will make sure you are ok.

I don't play Tarot "games" or Tarock "games" and I am neo Pagan sortof. But I have heard of using them for card games - seems overly complicated, to me...but hey, if you enjoy it, do it!

Can't see that you are hurting anyone, except for using your talent for card games to judge others whom you do not really know personally...I can't see using the cards for games being tied to any particular sect or group, sorry. You'd have to do an actual study using real figures before I would accept your hypothesis. But if you did such a study, I'd read it