Different House Systems

Hi!
I have been experimenting lately with differnt house systems...
My astrologet told me that the one that works, is the "Equal", and i feel it is so, for me....
(in this particular house system, my Moon is in the 4th house, and not the 5th, like other systems indicates, and i'm definitely very homey, have issues with mum, and did i say i have difficulties leaving my house in the morning?)
According to other systems, i have nothing in the 4th....

So, is it that differnt systems work for different people?
OR
if this one seems to work for me, so I should use this for others?

Sometimes the systems have big differences between them...
Astro.com use as default the Placidus, I think... It seems that they would know to choose the right system, no?

Any clues, anyone???

Thanks!

House systems are one of the most argued pieces of Astrology. There is no 'right' answer to the choice of House System.

In principle they all try to divide the circle of the Zodiac into 12 equal pieces - however they differ very much on the basis for the division - the main two bases being time or space. The situation is further complicated by the spherical nature of the Earth, as the division is usually done relative to the place of the nativity.

In practice there are a number of house systems which predominate - Placidus is probably the main one, but Koch is also used a lot, Regiomontanus gets a following from Horary Astrologers and the Equal House system is used a lot by amateurs and occasional astrologers but rarely by professionals. Historical research suggests that the Ancient Greek Astrologers used whole sign houses. So if your Ascendant were, say in Leo (not matter where) Leo becomes your first House, Virgo your second, Libra the third, etc.

Given such a choice, what should you do? The only real course is to try out various house systems, you have tried Equal House, so try Placidus and/or Koch and see how you feel with them - give them a good try but if you don't like them and Equal Houses seem to work then go back. Some Astrologers will use different House Systems for different work - say Placidus or Koch for natal but Regiomontanus for horary.

I once did a comparison of Equal Houses, Placidus and Campanus and found that whilst there were differences, they tend to end up as differences of emphasis in some parts of the analysis - the systems all yielded a reasonably consistent overview of the individual.

It really comes down to which system you are comfortable with and which gives you the best 'success' rate.

Thanks!
I guess that i wante to know if there was "one" answer, especially when doing composits...
I'll go and experiment a bit more...
I know that equal works for me, and i understand whay the others don't fall too off...
But, my moonis in Virgo, so I alike to see it all nice and tidy!!!!
;-)

Some different perspectives

M-Press, I've reviewed this thread for a few days but couldn't gather my thoughts on exactly what to say. Unless you are willing to get deep into the several sperical/spatial coordinate systems in terms of the math, it would seem that the best thing to do is just compare charts printed out in various house systems and analyze the few significant differences you find.
*** Actually, that may not be best. Consider first the zodiac and the equal house system. Both are defined as having 12 equal segments measured as 30 degrees. Now consider the standard aspects -- most are based on one or more 30 degree increments. One could look at these characteristics and decide that the equal house system is the most natural.
*** So, what is the rational of all these other house systems? We know that they are more or less distorted in terms of house size/coverage relative to locational latitude. What does this mean to us? We experience seasonal changes wherein the Sun is above the horizon longer than below it, and then it all flip flops. Now we have to ask, "Is change and distortion more natural than evenness and regularity.
*** Now that we have two right answers (or two wrong answers), do we have other choices? Yes! Don't use any house system. How could you not use any house system? You have two choices; just use the angles (they are the same in almost every house system) or abandon conventional charts and use the awesome mid-point system wherein signs and houses are not primary factors. And then there are other choices, for instance you could go vedic. Or just rely on Tarot.
*** Now that I have unfairly played with your head, lets get serious. The Porphory House system divides the ASC-MC arc and the MC-DSC arc equally. This leads to narrow houses on one side of the MC and wide houses on the other side -- all the narrow houses being equal in size and all of the wide housed being equal in size. This doesn't fit with equal house, zodiac or aspect relationships AND it doesn't make for a smooth distortion of the houses. Throw Porphory out. The Regiomontanus House system divides the equator equally and projects the house cusps onto the ecliptic -- a blend of equal and distortion systems. This may not be bad. The Campanus does the same thing except that it projects from 30 degree segments from the Prime Vertical. Perhaps we can say that if you want to do an experience or sensation oriented chart you should use Regiomontanus (based on the ASC & equator) and if you want a consciousness based chart you could use the Campanus (based on houses projected from the prime vertical and MC/IC axis. The Morinus House system uses a different method of equal-equator divisions and projections wherein the ASC is defined as being 90 degrees from the MC's longitude -- perhaps this is a balanced Self and Experience system, perhaps useful for a spiritaul chart reading. If there is a valid basis for any house system then there has to be a reason for using it and not another -- hence astrologers use that which "feels" good. In fact, they ought to know why they choose and use a house system and how to interpret the chart based on that house system. As far as I can see almost every astrologer makes no difference in interpretation based on the house system they use. This should give you something to think about. AS FOR ME, I just don't bother much with house systems anymore -- or signs for that matter. Good luck. Ask any questions -- I'll try to answer them. Dave.

Addendum

Hi, I just couldn't resist that. Houses are miserable quandries. Forget about making a choice, use whatever you like and forget about the differences -- they just aren't worth it. The only logical thought I offered is that of throwing every house system away. I really don't use them anymore. I'm getting to the point where I can even ignore aspects. Pitiful. I'm either getting damm good or I'm going crazy. Dave.

Oh, thank you! There is definitely a handful of info here, although it seems overwhelaming!
I think I agree that the interpretation an astrologer does according to whatever houses may be similar, and this is because things don't fall too far off, they are related. For example, according to the equal (as i mention above), my moon is in the 4th house, whereas in Placidus, it's on the 5th. BUT, i have anyway Pluto in the 5th (according to both), so i'm doomed anyway!!!!! this is why the results seem the same.
BUT, there si a big difference if someone's moon is in the 12th or in the 1st house! This difference tells a lot about the person...
The same when it comes to composites: Everytime I "check out" a guy, i try to find out our composite Saturn. And by now I knwo one thing: saturn composite in the 12th, is a NO-NO! also composite Sun in the 9th, does not seem to pick up at the end...
So, this is what I check, and why the house systems are important!!!!

are you an astrologer, by theway?
Curious me....

Reply

I started my astrological studies around 1972 using a small paperback Do Your Own Horoscope (or something like that) by Joseph Goodsavage. I was determined to prove to my wife that her daily sun-sign write up in the newspaper was bunk. Well, it looked pretty interesting. A co-worker saw me reading the book and asked me to do his chart -- he was new at the job and I had no knowledge of him. I did the chart and determined that he was ill, described his symptoms, and (using the tables in the book) told him the years when he had those problems. It was all right on. The only thing I never said was that he was going to be very, very ill four months later. He died. I was hooked.
*** I ran into an astrological book store owner who steered me to mid-points before I really got into regular charting. That approach was quite awesome. Then I studied with Jeff Mayo at the Faculty for Astrological Studies in London for a bit. Later several friends and I started a study group that met weekly for seven years -- part of that time we studied with Rober Pelletier (Planets in Houses, Planets in Aspect (Para Research). My most enlightening times came with the study of Sidereal techniques which led to my focus on predictive astrology. So yes, I guess it can be said that I'm an astrologer -- although a very unconventional one. Dave.

Re: Addendum

dadsnook2000 said:

Hi, IForget about making a choice, use whatever you like and forget about the differences -- they just aren't worth it. The only logical thought I offered is that of throwing every house system away. I really don't use them anymore. I'm getting to the point where I can even ignore aspects. Pitiful. I'm either getting damm good or I'm going crazy. Dave.

Click to expand...

Dave may find this strange, or a sign that I'm also going crazy but I agree with at least half of this! On an individual planet in a house, yes it may seem to make a difference, but if you take the natal chart as a whole, the picture doesn't radically change if the Moon's in the twelfth or the first, especially if its close to the Ascendant. I have Saturn in the twelfth fairly close to may Ascendant and I treat it very much as first house. Anyway its planets that tend to be near cusps that will change houses if you alter the system, so there is probably only one or two at most affected by a system change. If you use elements, aspects, the MC, and the Ascendant in your analysis then different systems produce only marginal change.

Dave's thrown away houses more or less completely, except for the Angular ones - this isn't as revolutionary as it sounds - angular planets are the most important and the angles themselves are the most important points, perhaps the others can well be demoted and a gain made in clarity.

However, don't try to get rid of the houses if you are doing horary work - they are critical!

PS the half that I'm not quite ready to agree with is that (a) Dave is going crazy and (b) that aspects can be dispensed with - though I'm willing to be convinced on the latter.

Re: Re: Addendum

Minderwiz said:

Dave's thrown away houses more or less completely, except for the Angular ones - this isn't as revolutionary as it sounds - angular planets are the most important and the angles themselves are the most important points, perhaps the others can well be demoted and a gain made in clarity.

Click to expand...

Along this line (and I may have mentioned this in another post), I obtained a book by Daniel Lorey called "The Wildman, The Earth and The Stars," in which he describes a system using only the angles and the aspects (no houses or signs). He identifies the four quadrants made by the angles as archetypes (the Warrior, the King, the Lover, and the Magician), and he places special emphasis on the "power zones" before each angle suggested by Guaquelin's research.

As a beginner in astrology I'm making a special effort to study the "mainstream" methods, but I must say Lorey's approach is powerfully appealing to me in its simplicity and straightforwardness. It's a real dilemma, whether to use methods which are popular (and I do think there is a benefit to going with the majority), or using methods that are more appealing to one personally. Fortunately I don't have to make that choice yet!

-- Lee

A challenge?

OK Minderwiz, I'll take you up on the question of "Aspects or Not." Provide me with the following information from the chart of a person you know well: List in counter-clockwise order the names of the chart's planets, including the ASC and MC. Do not indicate the sign, degree, house or aspect of any astrological body -- just the order that they are in relative to each other. I'll give you an astrological reading. Then you too will be able to say that aspects aren't necessary. Dave.