How to help / learn about someone who doesn't want help

MandMaud

I'd love others' opinions and experiences please. This is part personal about me and someone close to me - part theoretical about interpreting an ethical question. A bit psych/spiritually 'heavy'; avoid if that puts you off.

It's my son, G ... I have asked him, and he has told me not to read the cards for or about him. So I will not (nor let anyone else). But I need to! And he needs it too.

I have once or twice done questions like 'How can I support G?' hoping that this counts as not *about* him, but not sure I'm satisfying my own moral standards here. They're questions for and about myself, but am I really sticking to his rule? In a 'letter of the law, but not spirit of the law' kind of way? I'm hoping to clarify what I feel, if some of you share their own views on this and how you reach those views. (Please ...)

He's 19 and has had depression for a few years; he now occasionally self-harms, and occasionally 'flips', either storming or weeping at people, or running/driving off - without warning that he's aware of, and more importantly without memory of it. Friends have told him afterwards, or it's obvious (finding himself somewhere else, etc). Triggers are hard to identify. It was every few weeks, now it's far more often. He's not secretive about it, though he is a very private person about his social life, love life etc.

Through his childhood he has had relatively a lot of 'body blows', traumatic things, bereavement and similar. His father is also a problem, not a calming influence ... nuff said there I think. I am less concerned about where it comes from, childhood issues etc, than what the hell can be done NOW.

Since the age of seven he has talked about fear of his own anger, and claimed that we've never seen him really angry. He's never done anger expressively, even throughout his 'terrible twos' he had only half a dozen tantrums.

His way of handling hurt or unpleasant experience has been to forget it - all his life - so I feel this recent not-remembering doesn't necessarily mean something serious (medical) is beneath. I sense it's more a case of a lad who is psychically strong, very effectively protecting himself from what in fact he needs to face, not alone and not without protection, but face and overcome / go through. (I don't like the word 'psychic', using it in the 19th century meaning: both psychological/mental and spiritual.) I'm a healer myself and he seems to 'protect' / defend himself from any healing I send, too (he hasn't asked me not to do that), and healing from a couple of friends of mine as well. He doesn't know he does this - if he's strong or psychic, he doesn't know it.

While our relationship is pretty good for talking emotional stuff, he (unlike me) was not born to articulate feelings - very Cups! Sun in Cancer and musical rather than verbal. I've always had the feeling he is strongly intuitive / fey / magical / psychic ... whatever you name it ... but for several years he fiercely rejects anything of what I fondly call the Weird 'n' Wacky, everything from orthodox religion to healing or anything else spiritual. He identifies only with his material side. The rest is a load of tosh, as he forcefully says (that's not his word though!)

There is evidence that he honestly doesn't remember these scary episodes, and doesn't intend (consciously), and is trying to 'fix' himself (as he puts it) - rather than making excuses for example or being too embarrassed to admit he knew what he was doing. I am also pretty sure he's not on drugs, nothing hard anyway and knowing him nothing too expensive!

He is referred for a proper psychiatric assessment / diagnosis, but the waiting list is a minimum 1 year, possibly 3 years. Good ol' NHS. By the time they start unravelling him, he could be in such knots that they never will. (I also have quite a bit of psychology knowledge / experience, and this is the only time I've felt like handing over to professionals because I am at a loss - usually I know as much as they do even if I can't remember the terms for things.) Tarot is just one of the ways I am seeking to know what the hell we and I can do, apart from just sitting and waiting for the next crisis, wondering which incident will get him arrested, or him or someone else badly hurt.

Thank you very much for any thoughts.
mm
 

ScaryFairy

I only have a small response to part of your post, because I don't really know what to say - I'm so sorry for what you're going through :(

I have once or twice done questions like 'How can I support G?' hoping that this counts as not *about* him, but not sure I'm satisfying my own moral standards here. They're questions for and about myself, but am I really sticking to his rule? In a 'letter of the law, but not spirit of the law' kind of way? I'm hoping to clarify what I feel, if some of you share their own views on this and how you reach those views. (Please ...)

I actually don't think there is a problem with this at all, personally. If you think about it, nearly all readings that you do for yourself at all can include outside influences, including people, who are affecting your situation, and from whom you don't actually have permission. I'm not sure I'm explaining this properly, but asking how you can support him is not the same as delving deeply into someone's life to find out all the juicy details. All you're doing is trying to help - and not even in an intrusive way.
Of course, if you feel that it's not meeting your moral standards, then don't, because you'll only feel guilty about it.

Best of luck with everything *hugs*
 

Bhavana

Jeez. He has to wait 1 to 3 years to see a doctor? And this is the type of health care they are trying to shove down our throats here in the US? Scary.

You did not say if he gets violent or destructive to others, or to himself - but still, rage - especially if it is an overreaction - is hard to live with, both for the person feeling it and for the people around him. Possibly medication - antidepressants, mood stabilizers, anxiolytics - along with therapy could help him, but he will need a doctor for that. Is there anywhere else he can go to get help? Any type of clinic or something like that? And will he go - if you can find something?
 

ScaryFairy

Jeez. He has to wait 1 to 3 years to see a doctor? And this is the type of health care they are trying to shove down our throats here in the US? Scary.

I don't really think that's a fair comment to make.
 

ilweran

I don't really think that's a fair comment to make.

I agree.

The problem isn't seeing a doctor at all, its seeing a specialist and mental health is generally underfunded. If he's been referred he has seen a doctor. GP's can prescribe anti-depressants, if in this case this hasn't happened it could be for a range of reasons.

MandMaud, would your son consider seeing a counsellor outside of the NHS? You mention he's experienced some trauma when younger and the blanked out episodes could be dissociation - talking to a properly trained person could help. There may be charities/ voluntary organisations that could provide this free or for a voluntary donation - although they're likely to have long waiting lists. Your GP should be able to help, or your local voluntary sector council may have a directory of local services including those related to mental health. In my area the waiting lists seem to be around 6-12mths.

Personally I think its ok to do 'what can I do to help' readings, particularly given the effect the situation must be having on you - as ScaryFairy says it could up in a reading without you specifically asking just because its something important that's happening in your life at the moment.
 

dawntarot

So sorry to hear you're going through this. Re waiting lists - call up the clinic he's been referred to and tell them he's suicidal. They will let him jump the queue then. A year is far too long to wait in a case like this...

I hope you get some help soon.
Blessings
Dawn
 

MandMaud

If you think about it, nearly all readings that you do for yourself at all can include outside influences, including people, who are affecting your situation, and from whom you don't actually have permission.
You did explain well enough for me :) and I hadn't looked at it this way - perhaps because the route I came was by looking for a 'way round' the 'rule'... could be me being too conscientious, as I'm prone to.


Bhavana -- He doesn't do rage as such - at least I don't think so, but will be weepy and very demanding, or just run off. The alarming part is not knowing it's coming, therefore not being in control; and not remembering. I believe he has not hurt anyone, or damaged property, but he has hurt himself - not seriously, yet.

When he is angry and 'conscious' (I mean, not in this state), he will shout - but not uncontrolled. He bellows in order to stop people doing whatever it is that he finds unbearable. A method I detest and disapprove of but beyond explaining why I think it's wrong, it is not my job (any more) to prevent his choice of action (he's an adult after all (even if not a very adult one!)).

There are private doctors of all kinds, but we can't afford to go private - not for the number of sessions it would take to diagnose and tweak treatment. I've done it once or twice, to get a diagnosis in order to tell the GP what medicine or physiotherapy to give me - but that took just one meeting.

I also wrote an off-topic reply before seeing what ilweran said (and ScaryFairy)... so I've put it below, after my 'real' replies. :)


ilweran -- Thanx. I might start with 'How can I make myself feel more relaxed about this?' or something like that ... and see which further questions it leads to.

So often I get hung up on making sure my behaviour is immaculately beyond reproach, and talking to people makes me see I'm being ethically over-fastidious. I'll gradually practise easing myself into being less careful... :)

I should have said, G is on an anti-depressant, started when he was 15. Clearly not the right one for him!

MandMaud, would your son consider seeing a counsellor outside of the NHS?

He has no faith in any professionals, but will go, on the 'try anything' principle. He did see one (NHS) counsellor who was useless - discharged him after 2 sessions, said he was fine because that particular couple of weeks he *was* fine at least to a stranger (I myself once saw one who kept falling asleep while I talked, and another who repeatedly called me by someone else's name) ... I have said to G, good counsellors do exist, don't judge them all by the one idiot ... What I said to Bhavana about going private - and I know exactly what there is for free around here, zilch. Anyway he needs more than counselling, this is not simple depression, we think depression or maybe bipolar, with something else in the mix that's confusing the issue.

You mention he's experienced some trauma when younger and the blanked out episodes could be dissociation -

Yes, but even when he was four he used to have no memory of asthma attacks - not big traumas. I think it is dissociation now, but not back then, like a development of his natural way of dealing with things. The 'body blows' I mentioned weren't like seeing traffic accidents or being present at deaths, more like life changes, some sudden, others just losses to deal with. I don't think he has had PTSD but then who knows how a person processes things.


Thank you everyone for pitching in. Thanx for the hugs too! Didn't mean to get into a counselling session for myself ;) but clarify the reading for/about him thing - which you have, once I've gone over and taken in what you've said. :) I'm not used to reading for others except a few exchanges here on AT - nor for myself for that matter. I expect I'll be here again, with G-related readings for help ...
 

MandMaud

So sorry to hear you're going through this. Re waiting lists - call up the clinic he's been referred to and tell them he's suicidal. They will let him jump the queue then. A year is far too long to wait in a case like this...

I hope you get some help soon.
Blessings
Dawn

Just seen this - he was suicidal to start with and they know it, a real attempt earlier this year ... nice thought though. Thank you.
 

MandMaud

off topic

OFF TOPIC, skip this bit, people who want to stick to tarot: SORRY! :D

And this is the type of health care they are trying to shove down our throats here in the US?

Like most people over here, I can't understand the arguments *against* a national health service. I personally will never be able to move to the States, because I need insulin; even if I could afford it, I'd say it is discriminatory to make me pay for it or for insurance (which I gather I couldn't get anyway) instead of taking my kids on holiday, or for some families, feeding them ... Seems a no-brainer to me, free at point of need - you have emergency departments turning away emergencies for financial reasons, WOT?

Obviously our NHS isn't perfect and that's partly because it limps along next to the private sector and has been underfunded for several governments... partly because local authorities vary so much in funding - this county's mental health services are one of the worst. Partly for lots of other, complicated reasons. The wealthy have no incentive to improve the NHS, coz they go private (and we're not exactly poor in this family, but far from having that option).

Please do vote for your NHS!

... Peace friend! :)
Hey, I never talk politics!!!

END OF OFF TOPIC BIT, thanx folks for putting up with that. I'll shut up now. ;) I didn't want to take the off-topic bit to PM as then it would seem personal, which is isn't.

mm
 

dawntarot

Just seen this - he was suicidal to start with and they know it, a real attempt earlier this year ... nice thought though. Thank you.

I am so sorry to hear this :( sending you loving thoughts. I wish I could do more.

Dawn xx