View Full Version : The Four of Swords' symbols
Jeanette
12-10-2003, 20:09
I've already read about the PAX in the stained-glass window; and as I was pondering this I also noted a little "thing" seemingly fixed to the wall just below and to the right of the window, but on the wall itself. What is this "thing" and what is the purpose/symbolism of it being there? Maybe is it some device for opening/closing the window? It appears to have some sort of rod or wire coming out of the top of it and running up the wall, parallel to the window. I'm curious now, and wonder if anybody else has noticed this and could enlighten me!
Hi Jeanette,
There was a little bit of a discussion about the 4 Swords and the decoration on the wall.
If you scroll down a little, its a thread started by Firemaiden. :)
Jeanette
16-10-2003, 10:36
Thank you, Emily; I checked out that explanation but it still seems to me that maybe that little "thing" was meant to be something mechanical (because of the 'rod' coming out of the top and going up the wall, I guess). I was wondering if anybody else thought that maybe there wasn't some hidden, esoteric meaning behind it and that it was simply just part of the window mechanism?
firemaiden
16-10-2003, 13:10
Here's a link: Four of swords - why not death? (http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11180)
Jeanette
16-10-2003, 20:45
Well, I read that entire thread and I must say that it was very informative (and entertaining!). However, unless I missed something, I really didn't find an answer to what the "thing" is on the wall! I wish someone could just contact Pixie and ask her directly what she was thinking when she drew it!
firemaiden
16-10-2003, 22:22
Hi Jeanette, are you talking about the ram's head?
I told my son about this thread and we got out my two Rider Waite decks. I have the Universal and the 1910 deck. That thing on the wall looks different in each deck. In the 1910 deck it looks like a sguiggle but in the Universal deck my son observed that it looks like the head of a bull. Maybe the sign of Taurus?
I don't know much about astrology but maybe someone else can interpert it.
My husband thinks it's just decorative framing around the window. (he's a carpenter) Please forgive him.
firemaiden
16-10-2003, 22:45
Yes, I did rather obssess about that bizarre detail , and could never quite arouse anyone's interest beyond the carpenter's window moulding concept.
But why is it there? A miniature, stealth symbol, you need a microscope to notice -- a horned thing... is it a reminder of the sleeping life force of the knight?
Moongold
17-10-2003, 05:13
I remember this original discussion way back in February this year. Since then, firemaiden, I have come to appreciate your eye for detail.
If you look at the "Ram's Head" it doesn't really fit with the line or perspective of the window, but then there is a lot out of kilter perspective-wise with Pixie Colman Smith's art work.
There are a few other possible interpretations.
The Ram's head thing runs parallel to the swords and is almost the same design as the swords, just slightly thinner. So it looks almost like a sword. Could it be a lamb not a ram? Lambs are symbols of peace so there could be a bit of irony here. Three hanging swords and one hanging lamb?
The other thing I wondered is if the whole lamb object could actually be a curtain rod of some kind but I think this is less likely somehow.
firemaiden
17-10-2003, 05:30
I don't have it in front of me, but aren't there horns? Like the curved horns on a big-horn sheep?
If there are horns, it aint no lamb...
I even had a dream about it last night.
The bull from the Wheel of Fortune was lying under a tree reading his book.
I walked tword him and he lifted his head. There was a bright circle of gold between his horns. He smiled at me and said "put your thinking cap on."
This morning I got up and got out my RSW and put the 4 of swords next to the wheel of fortune. There is a circle between the horns on the 4 of swords. Then I put my thinking cap on (had to blow some dust off of it first.)
I'm sitting there looking at this when a PBS special on Egypt comes to mind. They were excavating a tomb and unearthed a life size statue of a cow with a circle between it's horns.
THE GODDESS HATHOR
But what does that have to do with the 4 of swords?
Punch in search engine Hathor.
She has many duties but was strongly asociated with giving shade and rest to the deceased on there journey through the underworld. A piece of her garment given to the dead assured them of a safe passage.
www.hethert.org look under myths, very interesting stuff.
So for me that little sguiggle on the wall will forever be the Goddess Hathor giver of shade and rest to the deceased.
Look at the High Priestess card then compare her head piece to some of the websight pictures.
Moongold
17-10-2003, 11:10
Originally posted by firemaiden
I don't have it in front of me, but aren't there horns? Like the curved horns on a big-horn sheep?
If there are horns, it aint no lamb...
HeHeHe........depends on how you understand horns and sheep heads I guess. I had to look at figure through the magnifying glass and....well....I'm uncertain.
To be honest, it is many years since I've seen a sheep close up, and now simply have vague image in memory.
Blessings. :)
Jeanette
17-10-2003, 17:46
Well, Lark, I am sort of in agreement with your hubby the carpenter; I still think it is something to do with the window ~ that the "squiggle" is attached to the rod that goes up the side of the window. But I'm just not sure what it's for!
firemaiden
17-10-2003, 23:09
No, no, what's the point of interpreting symbols to have no interpretation...
I vote for the Goddess Hathor.
Its the bottom of the first.
Goddess Hathor-3
Carpenters-2
Mutant lamb with freakishly large horns-1
Jeanette
20-10-2003, 07:42
This is also one of the few cards in the deck that is an "indoor" scene; the majority of the cards feature "outdoor" scenes! I noticed this when I thought I would look to see how other architecture was dealt with by PCS, and I really couldn't find other illustrations to compare with the window.
I'm not sure what it is either, it does look different in the Universal Waite, the Original Rider Waite and the pocket Rider Waite - I've always thought it was a rams head decoration on the wall but I like the idea of the Goddess Hathor, so I too vote for her :D
firestorm
15-11-2003, 14:26
A Goddess Hathor vote here, too!
This comment is not in keeping with the current discussion of the symbology of 4 of swords,so please excuse me,but I had the most fascinating experience with it on Friday. I drew it as my daily card in the morning,and thought"rest and recupperation",then thought "no way,my deck must be off today "as I had a busy day ahead.
Would you believe that by 8 pm that night I was undergoing an emergency appendectomy and spent the night,loaded on drugs,'resting and recupperating' in ahospital bed?
Isn't that wild?
Jeanette
16-11-2003, 13:43
Oh, Celeste, poor baby! What an awful way to end the day!!! Even though you were warned :) Anyway, I certainly hope you're feeling better now and are back to yourself ASAP
TemperanceAngel
16-11-2003, 17:48
I have just discovered this thread, so excuse me for coming in late. This is all fascinating me!
Celeste I hope you are doing ok?
I went and grabbed my deck, 1971 version and low and behold I immediately saw what you were all talking about and my 'original' thought took me straight to the King of Pentacles and The Emporer with the same figure on their chairs.
It makes me think: King of Pentacles and grounding which, in a sense, when you are resting you are grounding or needing to ground your energies.
The Emporer is also four and four's are about stability and structure, which is part of what the Four of Swords is trying to get gain.
The Goddess Hathor theory resonates well with me too!
My husband is a cabinet maker, so I will ask for his opinion tonight.
Mary Greer said, 'A symbol that can be defined is no longer a true symbol - which must always transcend all categories and explanations."
XTAX
Jewel-ry
21-11-2003, 15:01
Hi,
Just to stick my 'five eggs' in, I was following this thread and got to wandering why the one sword is separate from the other three? Can anyone throw any light on this?
Jewel-ry
P.S.I vote the Goddess Hathor way too! Also, I like the way TemperanceAngel tied this in with the King Pentacles and the Emperor. Cool! So much to learn, I love this site!
Mystic Zyl
21-11-2003, 15:50
I vote for Goddess Hather too!
WalesWoman
22-12-2003, 02:08
This is great, I drew this last week and decided that it was time to put some of my perceptions and mindsets to rest. I like the Hathor explaination, it makes the most sense. Nothing is on these cards just for the heck of it. The lamb, hmmmm, a feeling of martyrdom and sacrifice, injustices bringing you down? Experiencing grief, what brought it on?
I think the sword beneath the person is the base of their consciousness or beliefs,attitudes, mind sets, thoughts and perceptions. Maybe overthinking an idea to death? What laid them low to begin with perhaps.
I think of the ones above this person as what they are thinking about, what is on their mind, be it past, present or future, but something that isn't really touching them. They are strong though, or have some sort of armor for protection, that or they are shielding themselves from the truth of some sort.
It's indoors because this person needs to go within the walls they have erected between them and the outside world, or need some sort of confinement in order to rest and repair and rejunvenate. It's sort of like the Hermit in that respect.
Kilted Kat
20-04-2006, 18:38
Since this card is an indoor scene, is it possible that the ram's head whatever-it-is thingy is attached to the end of a rope? This rope crosses in front of the Roman numeral giving it a perceptual image that it may be in front of the window, not beside it. That close to the window, architecturally it doesn't make much sense.
Maybe it is a rope connected to a bell that tolls on the outside when the subject is ready to let people back into the inner sanctum?
If he is sleeping in a tomb, as it appears, then he would have been "buried" with a bell to signal in case an egregious error had been made. "Saved by the bell" the saying goes...
Perhaps a lesson to be learned is, sure, go ahead and take a rest and ponder the meaning of life, but don't get so caught up that you end up lost in your thoughts. And here's a little bell for you to ring when you come out of it.
KK
p.s. Aries is sometimes referred to as "the Celestial Lamb."