View Full Version : The Book of Thoth
Hi everyone,
I am new here.
I was talking to a experienced user of Thoth tarot and he suggested me to buy this Book.
There is online version of it, here:
http://www.angelfire.com/celeb/Crowley/thoth/thoth.html
BTW, which books do you use for learning?
Thank you
:)
X.
firemaiden
17-10-2003, 03:38
I use the same online version of the Book of Thoth that you mentioned. I treasure it. I find it slicingly funny and deeply stimulating.
isthmus nekoi
17-10-2003, 12:12
Got the hardcopy at a used book store. I have found it to be very very helpful, although it is good to have some basic knowledge of astrology, alchemy etc to understand it. Some of the kaballah stuff goes right over my head.
Macavity
18-10-2003, 07:04
As others have said, the Book of Thoth is the indeed the definitive reference for the Thoth deck. Since I already have enough(!) books on basic Tarot (Pollack, Greer etc.), I also use Banzhaf's "Keywords for the Crowley Tarot" book. This book (imo) adds sufficient concise Thoth specific information and is perhaps (initially) more approachable than the Book of Thoth? It is also generally in-keeping with the keyword approach to e.g. Thoth minors.
Macavity
bagheera444
19-10-2003, 16:05
Greetings all .Was wondering that since studying crowley's Book of thoth seems a prerequisite for this tarot .Myself included did find his work quite scholary .
To help in filling out the jigsaw about tarot ,i found myself reading up on mythology greek ,celtic ,egyptian, far east ,south pacific, indian ,persian
also some attention was given to study of Qabalah
I might reccomend emily peach tarot handbook (i think)
ted Andrews introduction to qabalah ( i think)
mystical qabalah by dion fortune
For the more adventurous Of course Crowley's 777
basic books on astrology , explaining elements ,zodiac signs ,planets .symbols
as are texts on psychology explaining archtypes ,symbols ,
i.e symbols of transformation by Carl gustav Jung
the point of all this is reading around the subject is to help in familairising oneself with the language of how tarot forces operate
rather than obvious books on the thoth tarot ( thou these help in familiarity with images from thoth deck)look around
Regards Bagheera
Originally posted by bagheera444
Greetings all .Was wondering that since studying crowley's Book of thoth seems a prerequisite for this tarot .Myself included did find his work quite scholary .
<snip>
Yes, a lot has yet to be learned. 4 me, that is...
Thank you for your sharing.
x.
Oh yes, I've read the first few chapters, and had to sit back and go "Wow....that's...deep..." A few times I've had to re-read and try to chew through it. It's definitely not exactly light reading.
aquastar
05-02-2004, 12:29
i've had a pretty hard time getting through the book of thoth. i figured a good idea would be to read through it once a little confused and then re-read it again sometime and hope that it becomes a bit clearer.
Phoenyx*
05-02-2004, 16:39
I've got The Book of Thoth, as well as The Golden Dawn by Israel Regardie. I haven't found time yet to fumble through them though. :-/
I would suggest you read only the Book of Thoth in relation to the Thoth deck. It contains more than enough theory, and is enough in itself to lead to great practice.
From there just meditating on the cards and making your own connections and comunicants , will always lead in a rewarding direction. Indeed Tarot has its mystic because of its images, they are triggers of the mind in themselves.
Theory and practice can easily be swamped by dogma.
:-)
Rusty Neon
05-02-2004, 21:25
Originally posted by bagheera444
Was wondering that since studying crowley's Book of thoth seems a prerequisite for this tarot.
Whether or not Crowley's _Book of Thoth_ is really a prerequisite for the Thoth Tarot deck depends on your approach to tarot. If you use an intuitive or humanistic interpretation, you can look at the images and symbols and use the deck without Crowley's book. In connection with such an approach, you could use tarot books like Arrien's or Ziegler's and use general dictionaries of esoteric symbols like the Penguin Dictionary of Symbols (by Chevalier).
Saying you need to read the Book of Thoth in using the Thoth deck is like saying you need to read the Golden Dawn's tarot materials and Waite's _The Pictorial Key to the Tarot_ in using the Rider-Waite deck. Many people, especially those who use intuitive approaches (à la Pollack, etc.), get by happily with the RWS deck without having ever read the GD materials or PKT. (On the other hand, I can't think of using the RWS deck without reading the GD materials and PKT.)
Cerulean
14-02-2004, 20:50
and he talked about all the funny pathways and odd blind alleys in 1970 trying to get more out of the Book of Thoth than the Lllewellyn export deck and the Bantom copy of the Book of Thoth. He had been a freemason and BOTA member for more than two or three years and still he was wavering from wondering what was Crowley about and the beautiful pictures that Frieda Harris painted.
His book Understanding the Crowley Thoth was a book proposed at a book fair by someone who knew his 1991 title on understanding Alexander Crowley's magical work.
http://www.lonmilo.com/
It's the book with the Princess of Pentacles, his favorite card, on the right.
I had him sign my copies of the books I bought and was very pleased with the lecture as well. The Thoth deck book contains some background on Crowley, the contents of the Book of the Law (which Duquette related in a hilarious true story of literally burning the book and replacing it within six weeks), and meaning descriptions, with pictures of the Thoth deck... I'm looking forward to enjoying it.
Mari H.
tarotica
19-02-2004, 14:38
"I would suggest you read only the Book of Thoth in relation to the Thoth deck. It contains more than enough theory, and is enough in itself to lead to great practice."
Crowley would disagree with you that it is enough.
"Book of Thoth" is an introduction to Crowley's ideas and other writings, which are necessary to read if you truly wish to understand his deck. More than this he recommends many other books, not always his own, as means to obtain deeper or clearer understandings of his own influences and assumptions.
"From there just meditating on the cards and making your own connections and comunicants , will always lead in a rewarding direction."
Occult Tarot was never intended to be accessible to the masses and their own connections. One can waste much time cultivating personal feelings about the meanings of occult Tarot symbolism. That is no substitute for actually learning the meanings of that symbolism.
"Theory and practice can easily be swamped by dogma."
Theory and practice uninformed by dogma is benighted daydreaming.
tarotica
20-02-2004, 18:36
Originally posted by Rusty Neon
Whether or not Crowley's "Book of Thoth" is really a prerequisite for the Thoth Tarot deck depends on your approach to tarot. If you use an intuitive or humanistic interpretation, you can look at the images and symbols and use the deck without Crowley's book.
To do what exactly?
Many people talk about "intuitive" approaches or in your case a "humanistic" one. What do you mean by these terms? And how would you distinguish their procedures and whatever supposed benefits one enjoys from using them as opposed to studying Crowley's "Book of Thoth"?
Please give some examples of this from the Thoth deck.
Continued
In connection with such an approach, you could use tarot books like Arrien's or Ziegler's and use general dictionaries of esoteric symbols like the Penguin Dictionary of Symbols (by Chevalier).
One could do these things, but why should one choose to do so when he is using a deck which isn't "general" but is instead a very personal interpretation of Tarotic, again not general, symbolism?
Continued
Saying you need to read the Book of Thoth in using the Thoth deck is like saying you need to read the Golden Dawn's tarot materials and Waite's "The Pictorial Key to the Tarot" in using the Rider-Waite deck.
Assuming one means by "using" something at least akin to an intended use or a traditional occult use---and so not for example a use of the cards merely to build flimsy houses---one is very much obliged, if he would hope to have any real success with the cards, to actually learn what they are about. And that is just as important with the Waite deck as with Crowley's deck.
And yes, we can discuss what "success" means. But if it means anything more than satisfying ignorant personal whims, you've got to crack those designer guides and actually learn Tarot by the texts.
Continued
Many people, especially those who use intuitive approaches (à la Pollack, etc.), get by happily with the RWS deck without having ever read the GD materials or PKT. (On the other hand, I can't think of using the RWS deck without reading the GD materials and PKT.)
People can get by happily on ignorant feelings. Indeed, ignorance is felt by many people to bring bliss. But it is questionable that "getting by" is in any way getting real and true insights about or via Tarot.
Rusty Neon
20-02-2004, 19:10
tarotica/jk ... welcome to aeclectic tarot.
Phoenyx*
20-02-2004, 21:00
Welcome back to Aeclectic Tarotica.
Tarotica, "Occult Tarot was never intended to be accessible to the masses and their own connections. One can waste much time cultivating personal feelings about the meanings of occult Tarot symbolism. That is no substitute for actually learning the meanings of that symbolism"-
This is a new aeon, the eaon of Do what thou wilt, cultivating personal feelings are as welcome in this universe as watching out for giant white rabbits. The images can be expanded and brought to life in the Imagination ( 1-magi-nation) Once the sub-conscious gets invovled whose to say its personal?
"Theory and practice uninformed by dogma is benighted daydreaming."
Dogma for Dogmas sake. The journey can be swamped , and be turned into a quest for Knowledge. Perhaps likened to the 'false god, daath, the real fools crown. Universe is not rational, and there comes a point where everything you believe becomes a joke. What is wrong with day-dreaming? What is wrong with day-dreaming your own dreams and ideas?
I spoke to a blue star queen from Andromeda last night, and she told me she loves me, and wants me to go to merlins cave with her soon- who cares if its benighted day-dreaming
:-)
tarotica
25-02-2004, 12:00
Originally posted by AmounrA
Tarotica, "Occult Tarot was never intended to be accessible to the masses and their own connections. One can waste much time cultivating personal feelings about the meanings of occult Tarot symbolism. That is no substitute for actually learning the meanings of that symbolism"-
AmounrA "This is a new aeon, the eaon of Do what thou wilt, cultivating personal feelings are as welcome in this universe as watching out for giant white rabbits. The images can be expanded and brought to life in the Imagination ( 1-magi-nation) Once the sub-conscious gets invovled whose to say its personal?"
In your effort to oppose what I said you have nicely illustrated the point I was making, which is that ignorance of dogma can lead you, based upon mere feelings about what things SHOULD say, to make the wrong conclusions about what things do in fact say. You quote Aleister Crowley for example: "Do what thou wilt", but you do so in support of the claim that it refers somehow to cultivating personal feelings in preference to or outright rejection of learning dogma, or in this particular case the intentions of the person who crafted the phrase "Do what thou wilt" for use with his religion of Thelema.
Aleister Crowley was quite explicit in pointing out that "Do what thou wilt" certainly doesn't mean "Do what you like" or "Do what FEELS good". He would have especially not meant it to indicate that the doing should be broken away from a base of rigorous instruction in the ways and means of properly doing things. More than this, the meaning of the phrase may not in fact be a declaration of personal independence from external obligations at all, since if you read the "thou" as a reference to an other, which Crowley hinted was a correct way of reading it, and indeed to a holy other, or a god, than what the phrase really means is that one should do as his god obliges him to do. That is, it is a vow of service, not a declaration of independence. And it is one made very much in the Christian tradition, by the way, as Jesus says much the same thing to God just before being captured and executed.
To turn that potentially profound idea into "watching out for giant white rabbits" is more than a little questionable. Of course you have the freedom to watch for the rabbits, but that's just the point---blind freedom is like a gun which can as likely be pointed at you as at your target. It is a dangerous thing. On my Mysteria page I have the following Crowley quotation: "It has always been fatal when somebody finds out too much too suddenly." Why should this be so? Because without the preparation of much training, in dogma as well as in life experience, the truth is actually something most people cannot handle or even survive.
continued
"Theory and practice uninformed by dogma is benighted daydreaming."
Dogma for Dogmas sake.
How does your comment follow from (or reasonably comment upon) what I wrote?
Be specific.
continued
The journey can be swamped , and be turned into a quest for Knowledge.
The journey may be a quest for Knowledge, or knowledge. What's wrong with that? And in certain parts of one's life a quest for knowledge can be an essential part of being able to move forward, or at all. Just because you feel like that's unfair or restricting doesn't matter. The facts of life don't change just because you don't like them. For example, you can pray to all the gods you want and yet you will still die. There is nothing you can do about that fact. You can wish that, without dogmatic training, you could get onto a jet and fly it. Yet, even if all you wish to do is guide the thing into a building, so you're not much interested in learning how to land or even surviving the flight, you still have to take flying lessons.
continued
Perhaps likened to the 'false god, daath, the real fools crown.
I think only the people who have worn that crown can honestly say whether it is false or not.
continued
Universe is not rational, and there comes a point where everything you believe becomes a joke.
What point would that be with respect to the ideas of Thoth Tarot?
continued
What is wrong with day-dreaming? What is wrong with day-dreaming your own dreams and ideas?
If you would substitute that for learning, there is much potentially wrong and very dangerous about it. Just daydreaming and wishing you knew something when in fact you don't, doesn't make you knowledgeable. It just makes you delusional.
continued
I spoke to a blue star queen from Andromeda last night, and she told me she loves me, and wants me to go to merlins cave with her soon- who cares if its benighted day-dreaming
:-)
I'm sure nobody cares. But that's the point. If nobody cares then why even mention it? In Tarot forums many people relate their ignorant personal feelings about Tarot because they imagine that somebody else should actually care to hear about them. That is presumptuous, to say the least. Tarot is often claimed as just another newage healing agent, and in many ways 12-step rituals have been dumped onto Tarot in that respect. So people often feel, assuming that nobody could possible know THE truth about Tarot (even in part), that all opinions, even their own benighted ones, should be shared and welcome. But that feeling people often have is about what they ignorantly choose to do with Tarot and to project onto it and is not concerned with what Tarot is about, symbolically or traditionally. Thus a person who truly desires to learn Tarot should THINK first and feel good about it second.
"I'm sure nobody cares. But that's the point. If nobody cares then why even mention it? In Tarot forums many people relate their ignorant personal feelings about Tarot because they imagine that somebody else should actually care to hear about them. That is presumptuous, to say the least"
You are a beauty. As you have posted this message of enlightenment on a tarot message board, I wonder if your own sub-conscious is betraying you. Perhaps you are talking to yourself?
"Tarot is often claimed as just another newage healing agent, and in many ways 12-step rituals have been dumped onto Tarot in that respect. So people often feel, assuming that nobody could possible know THE truth about Tarot (even in part), that all opinions, even their own benighted ones, should be shared and welcome. But that feeling people often have is about what they ignorantly choose to do with Tarot and to project onto it and is not concerned with what Tarot is about, symbolically or traditionally. "
...and your point is?
"If you would substitute that for learning, there is much potentially wrong and very dangerous about it."
Dangerous, begone ya bam.
"It just makes you delusional"
every one is delusional, there is no one truth. ( unless you know it?)
"What point would that be with respect to the ideas of Thoth Tarot?"
universe card.
"I think only the people who have worn that crown can honestly say whether it is false or not"
Why?
"For example, you can pray to all the gods you want and yet you will still die. There is nothing you can do about that fact. You can wish that, without dogmatic training, you could get onto a jet and fly it. "
Tell me, what happens when you die?
Phoenyx*
25-02-2004, 22:54
Originally posted by tarotica
I'm sure nobody cares. But that's the point. If nobody cares then why even mention it? In Tarot forums many people relate their ignorant personal feelings about Tarot because they imagine that somebody else should actually care to hear about them. That is presumptuous, to say the least.
You know, I've had this problem recently, the thoughts going through my head even as I post messages on the boards here, that perhaps people think that what I write is...stupid, meaningless, ignorant.
And then I wonder...is it my own deflated self-ego saying that, putting myself down? Or is it the truth? Who can say which of my words will touch someone's heart and which will not, which will be rich with deep meaning, and which will seem to be fluffy cloudy nothingness? I look around at the other members, people like HOLMES, or Rusty, or any of the many many people whose experiences and knowledge with the Tarot far exceed my own meager bits of knowledge, and I'm amazed.
The freedom of the written word, of these messageboards is that you don't HAVE to read the words typed.
Originally posted by Triquetra
You know, I've had this problem recently, the thoughts going through my head even as I post messages on the boards here, that perhaps people think that what I write is...stupid, meaningless, ignorant.
And then I wonder...is it my own deflated self-ego saying that, putting myself down? Or is it the truth? Who can say which of my words will touch someone's heart and which will not, which will be rich with deep meaning, and which will seem to be fluffy cloudy nothingness? I look around at the other members, people like HOLMES, or Rusty, or any of the many many people whose experiences and knowledge with the Tarot far exceed my own meager bits of knowledge, and I'm amazed.
The freedom of the written word, of these messageboards is that you don't HAVE to read the words typed.
That was very beautifully said Triquetra.
Straight from your heart.
And I read every word :)
baba-prague
26-02-2004, 04:53
Originally posted by Rusty Neon
Many people, especially those who use intuitive approaches (à la Pollack, etc.), get by happily with the RWS deck without having ever read the GD materials or PKT
I don't want to get into this discussion about Thoth, but just to say that if you read "78 Degrees" by Pollack in fact she does make a lot of references to the Pictorial Key and is clearly building on a very good knowledge of the book. I agree that in later work she refers to Waite a good deal less.
I tend to read and reread Waite. Not because I want to simply use his approach "as is" but because he was, after all, co-designer of the deck and therefore what he has to say deserves to be taken seriously - I find that it's more useful than it sometimes first appears. I also draw on Yeats more and more, but that's another whole discussion.
Anyway - let you get back to Thoth...
crystal cove
26-02-2004, 08:57
Originally posted by tarotica
To do what exactly?
People can get by happily on ignorant feelings. Indeed, ignorance is felt by many people to bring bliss. But it is questionable that "getting by" is in any way getting real and true insights about or via Tarot.
Who exactly would be the judge of that? The point could also be made that some don't even consider the Thoth "real tarot".
Is the link to the online version of this book dead now?
It just does not seem to be working damn it.
Unless I have the wrong link ofcourse. ;)
C
You can download the book of thoth from this page:
http://www.fact-index.com/t/th/the_book_of_thoth.html
under 'external link'.
Thank you Kosmos. I was beginning to think that I was doomed to purchasing a copy. LOL.
C
firemaiden
02-03-2004, 17:35
I'm frustrated that the angelfire site no longer works. I've downloaded that pdf file, but there are no chapter headings, navigation is impossible, I can't copy, cut and paste the text. :(
Has anyone been able to find any additional sites with at least some of the Book of Thoth text on it?
I know, I know, moan, moan , moan...
I can’t find a straight forward version of Equinox V.III No.V, but this should make you happy-
http://www.rahoorkhuit.net/library/thoth/trumps/index.html
or-
http://www.rahoorkhuit.net/library/thoth/
An interesting link-
http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib78.html
The link below gives correspondence between Frieda and Crowley concerning Thoth-
http://www.hermetic.com/crowley/crowley-harris.html
Cerulean
02-03-2004, 22:04
Thanks for the links.
The letters are great--I did read in the Duquette book that Lady Frieda Harris paid Crowley to edit and see over her painted work. So the references to the stipend and her various discussions of colors and such were quite interesting to me. What fascinating material is there.
Mari H.
firemaiden
03-03-2004, 06:25
Many, many thanks, AmounrA.
I bought the book lol - I also found that the online version was gone, and just when I wanted to read more so I ordered the book from Amazon - actually its quite cheap for such a large book, £8.07 for the paperback version, printed 2002 from Amazon UK.
I also ordered another large Thoth, I have the green version, but wanted the clearer, brighter coloured one and that was only £8.57 from Amazon - I've posted in the 'Tarot decks' forum about it because I think amazon UK have the price wrong.
I was having a very stressful day and this deck and book made it a little more bearable lol :)
Here is another link to the Book of Thoth:-
http://www.private.org.il/GD/Book_of_Thoth.pdf
C
I would like to sell my copy of "Book of Thoth" for $12, including standard shipping fee to the 48 states within the US continent. Insurance is optional for $1.30. The book was printed in 1985, but still in good condition. No marking. I can email you pictures of this book if requested.
This book has great illustrations and will defintiely help you studying Crowley Thoth deck.
Originally posted by firemaiden
I'm frustrated that the angelfire site no longer works. I've downloaded that pdf file, but there are no chapter headings, navigation is impossible, I can't copy, cut and paste the text. :(
Has anyone been able to find any additional sites with at least some of the Book of Thoth text on it?
The complete text and graphics for the Book of Thoth are at my website:
http://bookofthoth.asiya.org/
I also encourage everyone to purchase a copy.
Asiya
**********
http://www.asiya.org/
firemaiden
15-03-2004, 11:57
Asiya this is wonderful news. I take it is not fully operational yet? I cannot get any of the links to open. :(
My browser is safari. I will try it with explorer.
How strange!!! I had actually just stumbled upon your website five minutes before reading that post!! However, I cannot get the Thoth link to work... lots of other interesting books though!
C
firemaiden
15-03-2004, 12:04
Wow, it works fine in explorer. Thank you Asiya for putting this up. For me, it is something that I really really need and will use a lot!
I have explorer and it is not working for me. My PC is obviously being moody.
C