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M-Press
09-11-2003, 13:33
Hi!
I haven't been very present in AT lately, due to work, and the same will continue till New Year's...
Nevertheless, I'm popping here and there, to keep up with Martha Stewart!

There is someone's chart, that has been intersting me for a while now, but since it's "hot" again, I find myself questioning during the day, so...

The person is called Ron Arad, and he's an Israeli air-force navigator, that was captured by members of the Amal Shi?ite militia in 1986.

He's still missing- for the last 17 years...!!!! -not definitely dead though.
A total mystery, he's a big "issue" in the Israeli life. Here and there it "wakes up" again, with some proof or gossip, that he's alive, captured and hidden somewhere...

i don't know his time of birth, but his birthday is on:
May 5, 1958,Israel
http://www.mia.org.il/ron.html

what this case makes me think of/question, are the following:
1) is it possible to see death in a chart?
could we solve the mystery?
2) what does a chart of someone so spoken and cared about, a true hero, that is totally hidden from the world, and separated from his environment, looks like?
would that be a classic "sun in the 12th house"? what else shows this drama/tragedy?

if anyone would like to look into this...
I can try and find more "facts"
i don't know why, but personally i'm very intriguided by it. In a way I do not believe this can happen...

Minderwiz
09-11-2003, 21:54
Some intriguing questions M-Press!

Traditional Astrolgoers claimed that they could calculate life span and identify the point of death. However changes in medical science and the chances of 'accidental death' lead me to treat this with some suspicion in terms of its usefulness.

I know that some modern Astrologers do point to chart symbolism that can indicate death as a likely - but these tend to be done after the event or in circumstances where death is a real possibility - for example before major surgery or on the diagnosis of a life threatening disease. In these circumstances their predicitions may well be accurate.

Possible ways forward are to:

Do a horary on the question is Ron Arad dead?

Do an event chart for the moment of his disappearance - as accurately as we can time it.

Look at the transits and progressions to his chart around the time of his disappearance - again an accurate time and place of birth would be nescessary.

If you can find more out then let us know.

M-Press
09-11-2003, 22:16
Thank You!

I also felt that we needed more info, such as time of birth, and besides contacting the family, I don't see how else we can find it...
I don't know if I feel comfortable doing that...But I'm also wondering if anyone else (maybe even the family itself), even inquired about that in "our" ways of looking, including a tarot reading...

Sorry-what is a horary?

I will let this perculate a little...maybe I can meditate on it myself, to see how it affects me personally, as I don't know him personally, and then see how to go about finding his time of birth...
I also think that I 'm looking for more than a yes or no answer...
I'm trying to understand this, and I would like to see how it can be explained astrologically...

Anyway, I'm sure I'll be back with this...between my newly working chores!!

Minderwiz
09-11-2003, 22:45
M-Press,

Horary is a traditional technique of answering questions using Astrology - the Astrological equivalent of a Tarot reading.

The question can be anything at all - in this case the question would surround the death of survival of Ron Abard. As in Tarot the question is asked by a querent (which of course could be the same person as the reader) and is concerned with the quesited - the subject matter of the question.

A chart is cast for the moment that the reader (the Astrologer) understood the question and is set for the reader's location.

The querent is signified by the ruler of the Ascendant and the questited by the ruler of the relevant house - in this case as the quesited is another person his significator would be the ruler of the seventh.

The house position of the significators, their condition and relationships all contribute to the chart reading.

The good thing about horary is that it works when there is insufficient data for an accurate natal or event chart.

lunalafey
09-11-2003, 23:09
This is a subject that I'm close to.
I have two charts that I stare at.....
one is a birthday........the other is the day of dissapearance......
only reciently it was confirmed that this was also time of death.

how great of an influence does the ASC have, for I have no time of birth(like you-lol), or even exact time of death (at this moment- though I feel my guess of the exact time is d*** close)
without that info....where's the next place to look?

what about a progressed chart- the day=year chart

Minderwiz
10-11-2003, 00:01
We have to be very cautious here - i certainly don't have the skill to be exact or anywhere near it.

So the following are simply possibles:

Firstly Progressions and Transits may well give some indicators through symbolism - Death is commonly attributed to the eighth House, so hard aspects to the ruler of the eighth may have symbolism - though we need to ask why this particular transit or progression, as there will have been some hard aspects before - so you are probably looking for not one but several indicators.

There is a tradition that the Ascendant shows our entry into this world and the cusp of the seventh shows our exit from it. So again planets in the seventh and the ruler of the seventh may play a symbolic role.

Lee Lehman refers to a relationship between Jupiter and the event of death - even though Jupiter is usually seen as benefic. Jupiter symbolises expansion and growth and for somethings this is very bad - cancers and bleeding are but two examples.

The condition of planets by essential and accidental dignity will also be important but again there must be some reason for linking these to death - possibly by using an event chart for a life threatening event - such as an operation, or an event that carries some risk where death may be an outcome - the flight time of an aircraft that crashed for example.

Lee Lehman also refers to a system of predictions called profections - although she does not use a pure classical approach for several reasons relating to its complexity and the nature of the house system employed - she does use a variation relating to moving the Ascendant for one House for each year. Thus I am now in my 57th year so my profected first House is my natal tenth. The chart could be read for the year using the MC as though it were the new Ascendant. This seems a little rough and ready but from the examples she gives it does seem to have real use.

M-Press
11-11-2003, 06:34
Thanks for all this...
I actually never heard of a horary before, and i'm not sure I got it completely, but will try to experiment...

just for the record, (i know this is out of this discussion) , I drew 3 cards regarding the captured navigator, and I got, Ace of Swords, Ace of pentacles, and The Fool...
Interesting, ah?
That doesn's sound very dead...

Anyway...
I'll do more probing... i want to look at your suggestions more closely, Minderwiz...There is A LOT there...

I'm in NY now, so I'll try to see if there is any new book on the subject, in one of these New Age stores!...after I finish painting 900 frames, that is!!!!

Minderwiz
11-11-2003, 08:40
Horary has quite complex rules of procedures based on a traditional approach to Astrology. Indeed it may predate natal Astrology and certainly up to the seventeenth century or so it was used more that natal Astrology. That was mainly because many people had little or no idea of the time of their birth and many could not even by accurate to the day. However an Astrologer knew the time that he (and in those days it was almost exclusively male dominated) understood the question asked.

The horary chart therefore has an accurate time, where a natal chart may not do. If you want me to have a go at a horary through this thread in order to see what condition Ron Abard is in I'll gladly try it - though I don't promise anything definite from it.

M-Press
11-11-2003, 11:17
Thanks M for offering!
Yes, that would be great, because then we'll also see what that means...the horary...

here is his info again:
May 5, 1958 in Israel, Tel-Aviv
and well, he's been "away" for 17years...
the chart itself should be stunning (sadly...)!

Minderwiz
11-11-2003, 22:36
OK - I'll do a chart on the question:

Where is Ron Abard and is he alive or dead?

I'll try and report on the chart tomorrow.

M-Press
11-11-2003, 23:16
Thanks, and totally no rush here...
And in case his exact name matters, it's RON ARAD.
We don't want to ask about someone else now, do we?

Minderwiz
11-11-2003, 23:43
Thanks for the correction M-Press

You're quite right!

Mystic Zyl
12-11-2003, 07:46
What do you think of Lily's study on horary?

Minderwiz
12-11-2003, 08:44
It is the classic text and used in virtually every horary course.

Even those that don't use it directly have texts that draw on it. I use it myself and its one of my most prized books.

M-Press
12-11-2003, 09:18
Who is Lily?
Is it Lee Lehman, mentioned earlier in the thread?
Is that the prized book? would like to look for it...

Minderwiz
12-11-2003, 21:27
Originally posted by M-Press
Who is Lily?
Is it Lee Lehman, mentioned earlier in the thread?
Is that the prized book? would like to look for it...

It's William Lilly - Seventeenth Century English Astrologer and definitely male! The book is Christian Astrology Books I and II, published as one volume by Ascella press. It's written in 1647, so although the print is modern the English is not, and therefore it requires a little effort to translate to modern English. It's also expensive - nearly £30.


However if you are going to get serious about horary, it is almost essential reading.

Minderwiz
12-11-2003, 22:11
I cast a chart in the correct name at 13:44:34, 11 November 2003

The place is my own home - 53N35 2W40 This is conventional practice for the Astrologer.

The Chart has Aquarius rising, and is ruled by Saturn. The chart was cast in the hour of the Sun.

I have used Lilly as a guide here. Ron Arad is a named person but is not a friend or immediate relation of M-Press or me, so I have assigned him to the Seventh House. This has it's cusp in Leoe and so is ruled by the Sun. I can use the Sun as his significator and also I can use the Moon as well (the Moon can always be used as a second significator of the quesited).

Lilly states 'if you find the lord of his Ascendant (Sun) in the fourth or eighth, either from his own ascendant, or of the figure, that configuration is one argument that the man or woman enquired after is deceased.'

The Sun is in the eighth House of the chart, so here is one argument that he is dead. Lilly cautions that he 'hath long been absent, and in remote parts, and strong intelligence concurring therewith'. Well he has long been absent. The 'parts' may not be remote but they are hostile but the 'intelligence' is rather sketchy.

The Moon is in the fourth House of the chart, so here is a second indicator that he may be dead. The Moon is in Gemini, where it is peregrine, it is also 'beseiged' - it lies between Mars and Saturn, again this bodes ill

The Sun is in Scorpio where it is Peregrine - not strong at all. Scorpio is traditionally a sign with associations of the unfortunate. However on first sight there are some good signs - its sextile to Jupiter a benefic and sextile to the Part of Fortune. However it is also conjunct to the South Node - which is seen as malefic.

The eighth House of the Chart is ruled by Venus (Libra on the cusp) though Saturn is the Almuten at the cusp - it has dignity by exaltation and is the day triplicity ruler of Air signs. Saturn is in the fifth of the Chart and is retrograde in Cancer, where it is in detriment. Saturn is therefore very weak in this chart both by essential and accidental dignity. The cusp of the eighth is in the last degree, often seen as unfortunate and it falls in the terms of Mars another unfortunate. Venus is in the ninth of the Chart – possibly signifying a death far from home.

Ron Arad was captured by his open enemies. Open enemies are signified by the seventh House - in this case the seventh from his own house or the First house of the chart. That is ruled by Saturn which is weak and distressed in the fifth (the capture was a gamble?) but it contains Mars, the enemies are war like. Thus Ron was on a mission against a weak but hostile enemy which was engaged in war. Pisces is intercepted in his Seventh, so Jupiter too can be seen as a significator of his enemies.

His own eighth house is the second of the chart and is ruled by Mars. The Moon has recently squared Mars (unfortunate), is separating from a square to Jupiter (one of the significators of his enemies) and is also separating from an opposition to Venus (sign ruler of the Chart eighth) and is applying to an opposition to Pluto.

My conclusion is that there’s very little chance that Ron Arad is alive.

Now Pluto was not known in the Seventeenth Century so Lilly says nothing about it. However modern horary Astrologers who use Pluto would treat it as a malefic. It has associations with Scorpio, in which the Sun is based. So a modern Astrologer may well take this as a clear sign that Ron is dead.

M-Press
13-11-2003, 02:49
This is impressive Minderwiz!
I 'll have to look into it more to understand exactly how you structured it (by using your own time and place reference), but I think it makes sense, as things are supported in many places, and are relevant to the situation...

It also makes sense that he's dead?i would be surprized if it would have shown differently.
After 17 years of captivity, how can you have any moral to stay alive , anyway, and they probably killed him anyway...

The thing with this mystery is, that his name and his situation, come up once a while in the news, and there is still no closure to it. There is no body, and none claimed his death, or said that he's probabaly dead. It's like someone tries to make a nasty mind-torture-game here.

We often see people (and charts) who become famous after their death or that their legend lives after their death, or there is a comeback of something dead (like Scooby-Doo, for example, which was a cartoon dead long ago, and then...the rebirth...)

in Ron Arad's case, I see things a bit differently though... Is as a single person's fate, is connected with the very delicate situation of a whole nation (there are still discussions about "prisoners" exchange), not to mention the political situation in the Middle east, and it's a CASE that does not want to die, even if the person is dead...

i would be really interested to se his exact chart...i don't feel it's my place though to probe for it...it's a delicate situation...escpecially with our outcomes here...

Anyway, Thanks Minderwiz for all this...
It was a very interesting lesson, even though it wiped any hopes I might have had... Reality is hard to look at sometimes...
and I think that unless a case like this one, it's better to concentrate on the possibilities that we see through astrology in "life"...

gloria
13-11-2003, 05:23
just for the record, (i know this is out of this discussion) , I drew 3 cards regarding the captured navigator, and I got, Ace of Swords, Ace of pentacles, and The Fool...
Interesting, ah?
That doesn's sound very dead...

Traditionally, the Ace/Swords relates to death. Maybe Ace/pents and The Fool relates to the beginning again on another plane?

Just a thought, Gloria.

Interesting thread this. I have read that death in a chart is more often signified by trines rather than the negative aspects.
G.

Minderwiz
13-11-2003, 06:43
M-Press

We don't need to restrict the question to whether he's alive or dead. As with Tarot, any question can be asked, including where is the body.

Gloria,

Trines and sextiles show easy of flow - they may therefore show an easy exit from life! The Sun in the horary is in the eighth and trine to the Almuten of the eighth, Saturn, a malefic. Saturn is also old father time, and could be seen as the grim reaper!

M-Press
13-11-2003, 07:32
Hm...
Gloria's comment on the trines?showing death, is very interesting...
He definitely didn't have an "easy flow" death!!!!, so that makes sense too...

Regarding the little spread I did, if Ace of Swords stands for Death, then the Ace of pentacles could stand about the attempts for prisoners exchange, and the fact that the issue always "starts" with no end...even if he's dead...
The Fool? Maybe it stands for us??? All out there to discover what will be, and maybe it leaves the other people interested in this, including the family, to be open and wonder? And since he's so talked about, then maybe he's doing MUCH in that other plane...

Minderwiz-regarding "where is the body", what kind of an answer do you expect to get that indicates a place?
(I must say, that once I was looking for something at home, couldn't figure out where I put it, so I drew a card---I got Death! I stopped looking!!!!
But if i was to get the Queen of Cups, where would look? in the bathroom????? :-)

Minderwiz
13-11-2003, 08:24
It's possible to use horary to indicate geographic direction and also the nature of the area and placement. I'm not sure how productive that would be in this case as usually the reference point is either in relation to where the Astrologer is or where the client is. A geographic direction from the UK is not that helpful. The type of area or building may throw some light on the issue but again there may be many areas matching the description.

For example, in my chart the Sun, his significator, is in Scorpio - Scorpio is a Water sign so the body may well be near water. The also signify lowlands, Scorpio tends to indicate stagnant or poisoned water or oily water, so the body might be buried in a lowland area near some stagnant water. Scorpio also geographically is taken as North by East (the question of course being North by East from where?)

The Houses also have geographic directions - the eighth is West South West. Now this is virtually the exact opposite of the direction given by Scorpio. However if we measure from the Seventh (his House) he would be in the second House, suggesting East North East. The sign on the seventh (his House) is Leo and Leo geographically is East by North.

All of this suggests a direction that is East by North through to North by East. Perhaps a bit more Easterly than Northerly. This might be from his point of capture but that's something of a leap.

M-Press
13-11-2003, 11:29
Your analysis of "goods" is very impressive Minderwiz... (I'm stuck with this word with you...)

I believe, that his body must be anywhere between Lebanon and Iran, bust most likely in Iran, where he was transfered long ago.
That makes sense with your findings too...

The other question though is, whether the physical location of the body can change anything... Unless someone says "hey, he's dead, and here is his body", there can not be a closure...
If he's barried under water or under polluted water, or....close to some oil... it will not solve the mystery and give this an end...
Somehow this issue lives on an IDEA, and what powerful idea... and not on facts and bones... Somehow these are barried...

I feel like in an Agatha Christie story now...while discussing this here....

Minderwiz
14-11-2003, 00:24
As you say it really depends now on whether someone volunteers the information or there is some intelligence about his whereabouts.

The occupation of Iraq may lead to better intelligence or someone coming forward but I don't think that that is a highly likely outcome.

Will the body ever be discovered and closure be gained? Well we could always do another horary :)

Until there is closure, as you say, Ron Arad is a symbol, more than just a missing airman.

M-Press
14-11-2003, 13:03
Originally posted by Minderwiz
Will the body ever be discovered and closure be gained? Well we could always do another horary :)

Until there is closure, as you say, Ron Arad is a symbol, more than just a missing airman.

M? I must say you are a most inspiring teacher, as well as a teaser...

Inspiring because although I thought of the Ron Arad story as an idea, i didn't think of it as a SYMBOL, and that takes me to a whole different place...

---So, What does Ron Arad stand for, as a symbol?
I'll have to think of it for a while, but what first comes to my mind is the never-found resolution in the middle-east... That too, is something that seems to be dragged-and will go on, for ever and ever...
And let's not forget that according to Freud, "although there is an enormous number of symbols, the objects or ideas symbolized are limited in number"...

---And why you are a teaser????? well, look at the cute little smily in your post!
of course we could do another horary...
and what should we ask?
whether, ever there will be a closure to the issue and when? (maybe finding the body is not the main point...) maybe also something about the impact that will have? (probabaly a big blast!!!!)

Another thought I just had, is that you too (like me), have a generous amount of Scorp...Who else would look for the dead?????

Minderwiz
15-11-2003, 05:51
Well given what you have told me, I think Ron Arad is a symbol so the issue of closure is more than just a mundane matter.

To be honest whilst in princple another horary might help, I'm not quite sure of how we would phrase the question.

Asking if the body will be found is not quite enough - what I think we are looking for is postive news of Ron Arad's fate that will answer the 'mystery'. Also that news would need to be publically known, at least in Israel.

I'm not quite sure what house governs 'answers to mysteries' - so I'll have to think about that one. :)

If you have any luck with Ron Arad's natal details we could have a go at trying to do some transits, progressions or use other prediction systems.

M-Press
16-11-2003, 00:47
Hm...
Very interesting question...
"Which house govers answers to mysteries...?"

Wouldn't that be the house that govers mysteries???
since in astrology all the edges are contained within the same one? (like marriage and open enemies?)

Of course, the 8th is also a possibility...
Would an aspect like Sun conjuction Jupiter poor light in any of these houses, and thus show a revelation?
When this will bw resolved, it will bi BIG-very BIG...I'm sure of that...

I always felt that Ron's natal Sun must be then in the 12th house...
It's all about HIM, but without him.... He's HIDDEN...
here a couple of the links, that show the interest in him (who I'm sure is mainly Israel's interest, but not only. This is an international matter. There just have been no other story like that before, or anywhere else...
http://news.google.com/news?q=ron+arad&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=nn
http://www.ron-arad.org.il/eng-story.html
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1068697367951&p=1008596981749

The only way I can think of to get his time of birth, is try and email his brother. Of course, I don't have his email address...
and let's say I find that (that is possible), then I'll have to give him this link, so that he can see and even follow...
I'm afraid that can be misunderstood, especially since I have a feeling that these must be "practical" people, and the whole thing is so sensitive...Especially now, that they want to free Ron's capturer-Mustafa Dirani...
So, I'm not "fully a YES" doing that right now. I would love to find out, but stay anonymus and unseen (12th house too!!!)

Ok, I'll let that perculate...
maybe if I found why I'm so passionate about this, it would be easier...(the SYMBOL...)

But thank you...thank you for your cooperation...:-)

Minderwiz
16-11-2003, 05:02
M-Press,

Thanks very much for the links, I'll have a look at them.

Your intuition may well be right and Ron's Sun may be twelfth House.

After a bit of thought, I think that in a horary the mystery solution (if there is one) may well lie in the fourth House. This is often seen as the House dealing with the 'end of the matter' and Al-Biruni links it to what succeeds death and what happens to the dead.

So I may have a play around with that idea.

M-Press
16-11-2003, 09:34
hm...hm... interesting, interesting...Minderwiz...
Seems you may be right, there is somehting there, about this 4th house...
Isn't this also the house of "home", and maybe then "back to home"?
it feels that there is also a patriotical thing here... maybe that's why the "people-of-home" are so interested in this (supporting and personally involved)?

and I have more news...
After my post here today, I emailed a friend, whether he had any idea how I can get Ron's time of birth, without asking for it...
I got back 2 links in hebrew...
One is someone that did a tarot reading asking about Ron...
the other is a numerological approach to what happened to Ron...
and then i'm sure there is more....this mystery is one that touches very wide...
other than that, these messages were not very clear (hebrew...!!!), i don't know what cards the tarot guy got...

The new info that i did get, was the date and time he fell into the "enemy hands":
This was on 16 October, 1986, at 16:45, in Lebanon.
can that help for anyhting?

Well, let's see what else will come up....Looks as if there in a "stiring" going on...I'll keep looking for the time of birth...I'm wondering...

Minderwiz
16-11-2003, 10:26
Thanks M-Press,

The date of his capture is very useful - it can provide the basis of an event chart. I'll have a look at it and get back to you.

Minderwiz
23-11-2003, 05:34
I've not really got more out of the event chart - it tells me he was in the land of his enemies (his significator is in the seventh, the House of open enemies) - it tells me he has recently separated from his aircraft (his significator is Venus and it has recently conjoined Mercury, ruler of the third house of transport) and it tells me he is not in good condition (Venus is in Scorpio, where it is in Detriment.

Venus is almost at the cusp of the eighth - which I could read in two ways - firstly that he was almost out of enemy territory when the event occured and secondly that he came close to death (the eighth rules death). Of course both could be true.

I'm not quite sure how to treat his captors - whether they are open enemies or whether, because they are a militia group they should be treated as secret enemies. Because of the nature of the conflict and incident I would treat them as open enemies and therefore ruled by the seventh House. I would use Saturn to be their significator - I've already allocated Venus to Ron. Saturn is the Almuten (planet with most dignity) at the cusp of the seventh. As they captured him they are stronger than he was and Saturn is stronger than Venus at that point.

Saturn is in the eighth, so Venus (Ron) is moving towards them, which makes sense. Saturn is not strong in Sagittarius, its peregrine at its location in the chart. Peregrine means literally wandering so this is a group on the move with no safe haven. Saturn is however stronger than Venus, so they will overpower him.

Saturn is also sextile Mars (God of War) so they are both angry and can bring force to bear more easily. With Mars in Aquarius, ruled by Saturn the force is literally with them.

Strangely the chart bears quite a resemblance in terms of shap to the horaries I've done - it's likely that they took him in the directions indicated in the previous horaries.

It's clear both Astrologically and in fact that he survived the incident, though with the Part of Fortune in the sixth, his luck was only so good - he lived but was caught.

If you have any luck in approximating a time, I'll see how the transits line up for him at this time otherwise I'll have a go at a Noon birth and see how that works out.

M-Press
24-11-2003, 12:39
hi there!
sorry it takes me forever to reply, I'm doing a Xmas market, all month, so cyber-time has to fit in with my bed-time-story!!!!

Minderwiz---I 'm not surprised that the outcomes of the capturing time, were similar to the other horaries...
And I must say again, that I'm really imprerssed of the way you put things "together"... It makes total sense, and you explain things marvelously...
I even start to get the horary thing...

So, who is represented by which planet, is something YOU decide, and the rest goes as it falls on?

you also wrote: "Part of Fortune in the sixth, his luck was only so good - he lived but was caught."--
I'm not familiar with "good or bad placings" of the Part of Fortune...
Which house would be a better one, for example?

Regarding "birth time", I'm trying to follow the news for any developments about Ron...
No luck with "fishing" his time of birth yet, and the more I think of it, the more I don't want to try and contact the family...
That puts one in some place of responsibility, not of the kind I can take on me...
Nevertheless, i wish there was something i could do to help out... It seems though that good news is always easier to spread...

Now, noon birth, would put his Sun in the 9th (far countries?), and moon in the 4th (home sweet home), not an unlikely match...
I'm wondering if there is something that spells "mystery" in his chart...or that "hidden" element...
Besides the 12th house, what else can tell about that?
maybe we can also try using Dave's containments? that would be more on personality rather than events though, right?

Well, this goes on for 17 years now...
The fact that I "woke up" recently, does not mean that all the answers must come right away...

Minderwiz
25-11-2003, 07:41
Hi M-Press,

Well the significators are determined by the relevant house ruler. In this case Ron is a named person, so he's ruled by the seventh. In the case of the event char the seventh is ruled by Libra and Venus rules Libra, so Venus is the obvious significator for him.

When the issue of open enemies arose I ran into a problem. Open enemies are ruled by the seventh so again this was Libra. As I had already allocated Venus as his significator, I couldn't use it for the militia that captured him. Thererfore I had a choice between using the Moon (a regular stand-by significator in horary) or the Almuten of the seventh - which was Saturn. My choice really only came into play in the choice between Moon or Saturn - Saturn seemed to have a better connection with his open enemies, especially as it is a malefic.

On the Part of Fortune, It was in the sixth, which is the House of ill health, ill omen, misery, bad luck, slaves and enmity. All of which seems to suggest that Fortune is not going to smile on him in this chart. The Part is ruled by Venus, which is in the House of Open Enemies (not good) Is sextiled by Saturn (easy capture by the militia) Is trined by Mars (ruled by Saturn) so he will be easily taken by force by some group (Mars in the eleventh) and it's squared by Neptune - he might have deceived himself into believing he could escape. None of this is good - but it's better than being dead and there's no indication in the chart that he will die.

One possibility now is to look at either transits / projections to a Noon birth or possibly a Sunrise birth. However, as we don't know exactly what timescale is likely to produce the most important events thereafter, its rather like looking for the proverbial needle. Though the more intense transits might serve to begin to pinpoint and developments after the capture.

Do we know of any clear information or sightings that can be dated, indicating that he was still alive?

M-Press
25-11-2003, 12:28
Thank you, thank you M...

There was proof that he was alive one year after capture (a picture and a letter by him was sent...)

And there was a rumor/gossip, maybe fact, that was released a couple of months ago:
That he was seen in the most tight prison in Iran, 3 years ago, that he looked thin and sad, that he was on a wheel chair, and after 2 heartattacks...

I will try and find exact dates for these (from the news), and will get back to you...

M-Press
29-11-2003, 14:51
hello there!

I did a search on Ron's werabouts, and I was again amazed of the kind of world interest that there is around him...
I found articles from all western countries to japan!
nevertheless, so much interest present, but info absent...

I gathered the below, because it was hard to get any "real facts", and I thought that this way readers can get a round picture...

According to this link: http://www.jafi.org.il/education/100/PEOPLE/BIOS/arad.html
(and according to an April 8, 1993 edition of the "Jerusalem Report", quoted in the article) Ron Arad was held captive somewhere in Iran.


A post in USAToday:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2003-09-02-israeli-missing_x.htm
Posted 9/2/2003 4:02 PM
Report: Missing Israeli is likely alive

Now, I know I was supposed to get facts, for the last time we know he 's alive for sure, but that seems not to work either...
Everything seems a rumor, and each article comments on "facts" from other articles...
I wish there was more concrete info...

Minderwiz---if any idea comes up to you following the above, pls let me know...
Otherwise, I will keep following this, and will keep an alert mind for whenever some "time fo birth" info comes, because there must be more clues to this!

So, this is not the end...but I had to post my latest findings!

Minderwiz
29-11-2003, 21:34
Thanks M-Press,

I'll follow your links and see if there's any way forwards.