View Full Version : 5 of wands -- what are they doing?
okay... I just started doing the whole draw-a-card-a-day thing and writing down MY interpretations, rather than continuing to study books. (Umbrae would be pleased to know he's converted yet another!)
Today this card was the 5 of Wands. ... traditionally I learned that this card mean conflict, strife, activity but no result, etc. However, when I really looked at the card, it looks like they are having FUN! I don't get the impression of conflict, rather I get the feeling of play. I wonder what they are actually doing. One of my first thoughts was, hey, they are building a house... but that's obviously not it. What kind of person would begin the process of building a structure with big sticks, without laying a foundation? So, no, not building a house. And not fighting.
It looks as if they are boys engaged in play. As we all know young men are full of energy that needs to be directed somewhere or they'll burst! (Snakes and snails and puppydog tails)... testosterphone, sexual energy, aggression, etc., etc. So rather than the expression of this energy having "no result" as the books dictate...do we need result? Isn't the act of expression enough in itself? The need to engage in activity for activity sake...
Anyway, I wanted to know other people's views on this card.....
What do you think they are doing? (and furthermore, I used to see this card as slightly negative... but now I'm changing my mind... what connotation do you associate with this card?)
mercenary30
18-12-2003, 10:34
It almost looked to me like it could also be a sport of some kind, like an event at a festival or something. A competition of sorts, but that still has the same basic result as the other interpretations.
I never understood the ‘strife’ aspect of the card. Any author who writes about strife, gets an F. They just copied what someone else said – and never ever looked at the card.
You’re right. They are having fun. Which means that they are involved in a game, a sport. To an outsider, it appears like chaos. But to the participants, it’s fun.
It’s our ‘outsider’ perspective that provides a negative aspect. We don’t understand what they are doing. When you are an ‘insider’ you understand it’s very positive.
Kinda like being on the Chicago Board of Trade, trading the Wheat Market. The screaming and yelling, the pushing the shoving, those wacky hand signals, and everybody knows exactly what they are doing…(go watch “Trading Places” again) it makes perfect sense, it’s well orchestrated…It’s only chaos to the uninitiated…
I see no strife either. (I give those who say it is an "F", like Umbrae. Two "F's" in one day.... that's tough luck.)
From a Marseilles point of view, it would mean to me (amongst a host of other things) learning one's limits. Testing oneself. One cannot test oneself all alone - one needs other people. Also one sometimes just has to accept that there are others who are "stronger" - and not feel all pissed off about it. And also accept that there are others who are "weaker" and we must not exploit them for this.
When I look at the RWS picture (it's one of my favourite cards in this deck), I see more or less the same thing.
Originally posted by Diana
From a Marseilles point of view, it would mean to me (amongst a host of other things) learning one's limits. Testing oneself. One cannot test oneself all alone - one needs other people. Also one sometimes just has to accept that there are others who are "stronger" - and not feel all pissed off about it. And also accept that there are others who are "weaker" and we must not exploit them for this.
hmmmm, that's interesting. I never thought about it that way. cool.
The Wands in the Five are wielded in various directions…..which could signify the various ideas and opinions which are being tossed around here.
Everyone wants to have their say, but it looks as if no one can get a word in edgeways.
I can almost hear them!
Looks to me like a typical 'staff meeting.'
Jewel-ry
18-12-2003, 12:55
I see this card as a kind of friendly squabbling. Healthy competition (I read somewhere) also makes sense to me.
J :)
In my Robin Wood deck they are just inches away from their wands forming a star. (pentacle)
So I always saw it as an exciting challenge and exchange of ideas.
Originally posted by Umbrae
I never understood the ‘strife’ aspect of the card. Any author who writes about strife, gets an F. They just copied what someone else said – and never ever looked at the card.I'm surprised to see a specific interpretation of an illustrated pip card categorized as wrong or given an "F."
I hate to disagree with my good friend Umbrae (although if I didn't disagree with him once in a while, he would probably worry about me), but I think that with something so inherently subjective as Waite and Smith's wonderfully ambiguous pictures, it's silly to say a particular meaning is wrong.
From a historical perspective, it would certainly not be incorrect to interpret the card as strife. Waite took his meanings from the Golden Dawn system, in which the 5 of Wands is correlated with Saturn in Leo, which could certainly be interpreted as a great amount of combative energy, or strife. And the Golden Dawn actually used the word "strife" in the card's name.
But even if one wants to ignore all that and just look at the picture, at its most basic level it does indeed show "strife," defined in my dictionary as "heated, often violent dissension; a struggle, fight or quarrel; contention or competition among rivals; earnest endeavor or striving." Five people are shown swinging sticks at each other. They could certainly be playing a sport or constructively building something, but they could just as easily be engaged in a gang fight.
Personally I like to think of the cards as expressing a range of subtle gradations from positive to negative. Actually the dictionary definition nicely encapsulates the appropriate range. So it really all depends on the context of the question and the surrounding cards.
-- Lee
firemaiden
19-12-2003, 06:02
Hahahah. It's fun to give out F's. I've been giving some out myself lately.... it eases tension .
....aaaaaaaaaah......
Maybe there is an element of easing one's tension in the playful jousting. The flavour of the card in this deck for me is one of merriment, and play, much like the scene in the fourth act of La Boheme, boys fencing with baguettes (bread)...
However, when puppies play they nip and bit eachother very roughly and sometimes it can turn into a real fight.
When boys play fight on the street I see the same thing. Its a kind of wild energy that scares me sometimes -- I think that at any minute it could turn nasty (It scares me cuz I'm a girl).
Imagemaker
19-12-2003, 16:00
In martial arts, practioners practice "kata" in which they go through a choreographed sequence of positions. This card looked like that to me (body positions and staves, which are used in many forms of karate), and then I read Robin Wood's book and she said she had a neighbor stand in his various martial arts positions for her to do this card.
So yes, they're enjoying the "mock battle" and training themselves for the unexpected.
She mentions that the staves nearly form a pentacle. You could use it as something almost arriving or just past.
TemperanceAngel
21-12-2003, 17:16
I call this the 'much ado about nothing card.' :)
The Wands are making a PENTACLE ;)
XTAX
WalesWoman
22-12-2003, 01:30
"TemperanceAngel I call this the 'much ado about nothing card.' "
I like this, and it does get an F- for Fire and lots of it! It could be like a bunch of kids acting out the lastest Ninja movie or those arguements, "My dad can whip your dad anyday" "Oh Yeah, well..." or competition in sports, business, creativity, anything where lots of minds with energy to spare are sparring, practicing for the real thing.
tarobones
23-12-2003, 12:00
I agree with Lee about giving out grades. Why not just simply say that we see different things in the images rather than sounding so pontifical about what another person is thinking/seeing? That sounds rather rigid. And judgmental.
I also see strife. Life is like that. Sure there is also the kind of strife and competition in an image like this. I am one of 7 brothers, so I understand that image too.
For me, the richness of the Rider Cards is that we see things from our persepctives and each one interprets according to his/her inner visions. That is what makes it a richer experience. My staying open to your interpretations makes me a better reader, and a better "noticer."
Just my 2 cents. :-)
The picture surely is more evocative than merely a clump/assortment of wands.......what do you think?
Kilted Kat
21-04-2006, 05:14
It does look to me like they are building a pentacle, Temperance! I like to look at the sequence of tarot as it moves not only up in suit, but also laterally by number -and each number has its own suit-sequence. "Wands to Pentacles" with the fives.
Lee, your dictionary version hits the nail on the head, as well. Who are we to discount someone else's interpretation? The def for the word "Strife" reminds me of these hot, hot, hot men on Spike TV -you know, the World's Greatest Fighting Champion- where they beat and kick the $#!+ outta each other and then hug at the end, in praise and thanksgiving?
I have often noticed how the figure in the middle, the one in the red tunic, is the one holding the staff with two hands, and so he is left not defending himself in any way. The older gentleman in the back (green tights, red thigh-highs) has his stick raised in attack and thus seems less vulnerable to me. Imagemaker, your "kata" theory certainly rings true, except our little red sacrificial lamb in the center needs a good dojo, it would seem...
KK
I agree with the other person who said that these kids (teenagers?) each have their own opinions (symbolically speaking), etc..
One thing I noticed...4 of them have wide-stances..and if you invert the card...each wide-stance basically form a "V"...i.e., the Roman Numeral V. The guy in the back with his wand crossed behind his head...(looks like he's taking a golf-swing or swinging a baseball bat)....has the narrow stance.
I believe these guys are competing....the center guy with red-top and hat against the foreground/blue-polka-dot guy; the left-most yellow-top guy and the right-most green-top/red-tights guy seem to be blocking the guy with the narrow stance/golf-swing.
There are TWO double-grippers and THREE right-handed grippers.
The guy in the middle (red-top, red hat)...has no sprigs of growth (leaves/branches) on his wand. The others have varying amounts of leaves.
When I see this card...it always reminds me of "confusion" because unless you really take it apart, it's hard to tell who's blocking whom.
Another thing about this card....if you look at the Roman Numeral "V" at the top...it is more or less incomplete....just like on the Five of Cups card. The other two remaining (Minor) Fives (swords and pentacles) have lines above and below the V. I'm not sure if there is any significance to this detail.
tarotlyn
23-05-2007, 15:15
Maybe this card is more basic then that.
My take on the 5 of wands is:
1. I think it pertains to the person's viewpoint about himself and "his" ideas.
The person you are reading for.
2. Maybe he believes that his idea or ideas, his will, or his ego [wands]
are better than the others ideas, will, and ego.
3. He does believe in his work and social situations, but he may want
to change his working conditions as there is a lot of "striff" where he works.
These wands could represent a lot of challenges and "contrary" ideas coming
from coworkers.
This could also represent a business meeting with everyone trying to
interject their own "brilliant...they think" ideas.
4. Also this person (you are reading for) could be experiencing problems
and "strife" within his family or with his friends.
Maybe he wants to make some changes there as well. He may feel that his
ideas are more correct than theirs, or even that they are not listening to him.
They may be arguing with about what "they" want.
Note:
If you notice, the person, or boy, in the card to the "farthest left" appears to
be holding his wand straight up and no other wand is near to his wand.
- Sort of "you can't touch this idea!" - Not so for the other wands as they
appear to be more engaging of each other than with him.
The boy on the farthest left, probably the person you are reading for,
is holding his wand HIGHER up than any of the others, in a victorious manner.
Kind of of like: "I win, my idea is brighter...better" or "I should win."
Even though he seems in control of his own ideas, [wands], there are those
that are in the process of trying to get their own ideas [wands] recognized.
"Those" represent coworkers, social friends or lovers, business partners, and
family members.
Reversed meaning:
Here the person doe NOT believe in themselves or in their ideas [wands]
so therefore, they do not have confidence to get a job, or socially, or at home.
I think "all" 5 cards in this deck spell out: problems, difficulties, strife, etc.
5 cups...resentment over a relationship gone bad...and can't get over it!
5 wands...strife, competition in the workplace, or with friends, family, or loves
5 pentacles...unemployment! they believe so hard in money almost as a God
and that leaves them lacking and with a poverty mind...could indicate drugs too
5 swords...nothing but problems here...cruel to others and you win, but you lose!
:T10C
I think "all" 5 cards in this deck spell out: problems, difficulties, strife, etc.
5 cups...resentment over a relationship gone bad...and can't get over it!
5 wands...strife, competition in the workplace, or with friends, family, or loves
5 pentacles...unemployment! they believe so hard in money almost as a God
and that leaves them lacking and with a poverty mind...could indicate drugs too
5 swords...nothing but problems here...cruel to others and you win, but you lose!
:T10C
A bit strange with all the negative connotations that the number five give, because isn't this number the closest to describing a human being?
1) Five senses
2) Five points (head, hands and feet)
And to get really basic: Don't we see five as more or less a half-way point?
Well, if it is conflict, I think it's equally matched conflict. All the players are of equal skill. You know how sometimes kids (or maybe teens) act out what they think it's like to be adults? It sort of reminds me of that. It's "play fighting" as if practicing for the real world, but doing it among your "peers".
I guess I think of the fives as "Coping." It's kind of like the holidays - a little stressful with the shopping, cooking, etc., but also good things come out of it too. For me, this idea of coping means learning something even if it is stressful or chaotic at times.
Bodhran
Troubadour
31-08-2007, 21:21
To me the five of wands is not strife at all. I look at the card and see challenge. "up for a challenge" or "a sporting challenge" or "the situation will be challenging." It is more sport than fight, but in any competition, there's this aspect of challenge, not conflict. At worst, I might see "a competitive situation." but it depends on what I'm reading thematically and where the card is in the story. But you're right, it was never about strife, at least to me.
Crowley says in his book that the card is actually about "striving" rather than strife.
Several of my clients have seen the people as trying to erect a pentagram (more obvious when seen in the reversal).
Personally, my favorite take on it is that it's like a kid's grass-fight. Everyone starts out in a spirit of play but it can degenerate quickly to someone getting hurt and going home crying.
I also call it the "committee card" as it can be like trying to get anything done by committee. It can be helpful to look at it as your own inner committee - different parts of yourself that all want different things. Sometimes I try to name what each part wants. Simply being heard & acknowledged often satisfies those competing voices/perspectives - or there could be a way to give each part a something that it wants.
Mary
tantricknite
03-09-2007, 20:00
Another aspect of the card is that It's good for business.Your going to stay busy and theres a lot of immediate work.Kinda like a labor day sale at a department store or during the Christmas season at the mall.I also like trubadors comment " a sporting challange".If there was a card that represents sports in the tarot this would be it.I was also thinking about how this card would combine with other suits.This card and a lot of swords would be strife and conflict.This card and a lot of cups would show passion and conflicting emotions.This card and a lot of pents would be work and business issues.This card with a lot of other wands shows a lot of spirit,energy and immediate activity.I've also have some personal observations from my journaling but I can't explain the logic behind this interpetation in regards to delays.The five have pents has showed up in my readings as showing some kind of delay in the arrival of guests or a package that can't be tracked.It comes up as a scedualing conflict or in real time delays at the airport.The paradox is that wands because of their force usually indicates an immediate event...Or maybe it's the immediate event of whatever was suppose to happen not happening lol !!!.
willowfox
04-09-2007, 03:19
They look like they are all working out, as in physical fitness, preparing for the competition that lies ahead, they are competitors and thus rivals. But, like any game of fitness or strength, things can easily get out of hand and turn rather nasty, so anger and real aggression can always result from the initial sparring.
It demands a great deal of self control not to let the situation degenerate into chaos and conflict.
I always remind myself that 'strife' and 'strive' are aspects of the same concept. When we strive - together or in opposition to others - it can be frustrating, but that doesn't make it negative. I see this card as describing a situation where people are attempting to work together for a common purpose but haven't yet worked out exactly how they're going to do it or what role each one is going to take. There is still some jockeying for position and probably some energetic competition about whose ideas will be followed, but ultimately, they are all coming together to manifest something concrete (that pentagram they're trying to form) out of their collective energy.
And sure, there may be some petty squabbling and exclamations of frustration, but if you've ever watched a crew build a house you know that's just part of how the job gets done.
caridwen
09-09-2007, 09:10
Having had this card come up several times in the last couple of days, I think it means conflict over how to move forward or on how to go about doing something. The conflict is not yet serious, bickering maybe, a little fiery. Imagine a group of friends at the beginning of an evening arguing about what they are going to do - since I see them attempting to build a pentacle, I see them arguing about creating something together. It can also be an inner card of conflict on how to proceed regarding a certain situation or issue.
Magenta_Wolves
20-09-2007, 15:44
On the 5 Wands the man in the red tunic with the hat on is holding onto a wand that has no growth on it, it is the only wand in the deck without growth. Do you think that has any significance?
willowfox
22-09-2007, 00:03
On the 5 Wands the man in the red tunic with the hat on is holding onto a wand that has no growth on it, it is the only wand in the deck without growth. Do you think that has any significance?
Well, if you are always fighting and disagreeing with each other then growth is impossible. Once you stop the conflict then growth can resume.
star-lover
22-09-2007, 11:48
5 of wands is the best of the 5s
in the minor arcana
5 of wands you have choice n opportunity and fun
in the other 5s its just sad
Sagepowder
26-09-2007, 13:48
I can't say what they are doing but in my experience, if you get the feeling of something with a house then that's what the card is telling you at that moment. I have tried reading about a card and then getting a different feeling from it in a reading and I always go by my gut instinct regardless if the card is "meant" to convey a different meaning.
...learning how to play the game of any group activity
...healthy competition
...learning to bring a group of energy together so an
outcome can be agreed upon that everyone understands
how they came to the conclusion.
...brainstorming to find answers
:)
Pollianna
26-09-2007, 14:26
'5's on its own smacks me as losing or a feeling of loss and lonelyness. The wands if I draw this card for the day I will try and prevent getting involved in any debates as could end in feeling a little irate or annoyed. Or expereince a day of annoyances. It can represent healthy competition if supported by other cards.