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Does anyone know the meaning of the white rose and red lily that appear on the cards in the Rider Waite deck?
For example:
The fool holds a white rose
Death has a white rose on his flag
The people kneeling before the hierophant have a lily and rose design on their backs
They're on heaps more cards too (including a few minor arcana ones), but I can't remember where I've seen them without my deck handy.
Does anyone know if there's some interesting symbolism behind this - or did the deck's creator just like drawing lilies and roses?
BB
Mermaid
from Rachel Pollack's Seventy Eight Degrees of Wisdom.....
the Fool's white rose - rose=passion, white=purity, together equal the "passions raised to a higher level"
Death's white rose = "desires purified, for when the ego dies selfish and repressive needs die with it" - I love that, makes me want to be a better person.....
Interestingly, she doesn't mention the clothing of the two acolytes on the Heirophant.
It seems the symbolism of flowers in tarot is invariably important, no doubt others will come up with more comments.
prcoqueto
11-03-2002, 10:27
COOL!!!
I can't wait to go home a look through my deck to see what you guys are talking about.
Thanks for all your ideas!
I had another look at my deck last night, and found the other cards that I was thinking about:
The plants in front of the magician's table are ... lilies and rose bushes.
The design on the stone wall in the 2 of wands is ... lilies and roses.
And in the back ground of the Ace of Pentacles is a hedge made of white roses.
It seems to be a bit of a recurring theme!
BB
Mermaid
the book i study from says that white signifies innocence/purity of motive (as luned also mentioned) and red is ardour/eagerness/endurance, i think the flowers in front of the magicians table probably shows what he can accomplish with enough grounding and inspiration :)
Briarfoote
12-03-2002, 16:48
I liked the idea that the rose in the Fool card represented his soul, which he is holding onto loosely - almost in danger of losing. again, it is white as a symbol of purity.
Major Tom
13-03-2002, 03:48
Symbols on tarot cards are rarely there because the artist enjoyed drawing them. :)
From The Tarot by Paul Foster Case:
"The rose in the Fool's left hand is white, to indicate freedom from the lower forms of desire and passion and also to show that it refers to the spiritual prototype of desire."
"Red roses typify Venus and the desire nature. White lilies represent abstract thought, untinged by desire."
Original Destiny
17-03-2002, 10:42
I typed in A.E.Waite and got Google to websearch..one of the sights is dedicated to the symbolism of the cards...Out of curiosity I looked at The Heirophant...It mentions the rose/lily themes...the rose and lily appear in the golden dawns initiation ceremony for the ZELDAR grade ..this suggests that WAITE has initiation in mind when using them...The Heirophant is the title of an official in the Dawns ceremonies
Original Destiny
17-03-2002, 10:56
check out www.geocities.com/~ninalee/oneill/
and click on the Magician
Okay... I'm a little late chiming in here... I only just got around to checking this forum! :|
From the Glossary of Symbolic Terms in "A Complete Guide to the Tarot" by Eden Gray;
"Rose -
1. White Rose: Freedom form lower forms of desire and passion.
2. Red Rose: Represents Venus, Nature, Desire."
"Lily - Abstract thought untinged by desire."
For a different take; from the Glossary of Symbols in "The Mystical Tarot" by Rosemary Ellen Guiley;
"Rose. Victory, pride, triumphant love, erotic love, the mystic center of the heart. A single rose signifies consummate achievement, a white rose purity or victory, a red rose blood or martyrdom. Dante used the white rose as a symbol of joy and regeneration. In Rosicrucianism, the rose is a symbol of the unity between the dualistic principles of the physical and the spirit in humankind. The rose also is a symbol of the Pentacle."
"Lily. Purity. Also, sweetness and virginity. In Christianity, a symbol of the Virgin Mary.
Hope this has been of some help to the discussion.
A mini forum for Rider Waite, super.
Does anyone know what the lizards in the courts mean?
I have wondered about this for years now, does anyone here know ? :-):-)
thanx,
William
Salamanders are on the Page, Knight, and King of Wands. They are a symbol of the Fire energy of the suit. According to mythology, The salamander was believed to be able to live in fire without being burned up. It was associated with fire, of which it was believed to be the living manifestation. It was believed to feed on fire.
Hope this helped.
Rose
ahhh, their salamaders :-):-) Thanx rose, now they make a lot more sense. I'm going to look up salamander mythology now !
William
paradoxx
30-04-2003, 17:49
the design on the King of Wands throne is a variation of the oroborus identified as a lizard eating its own tail. That makes sense because a lizard can lose its tail and grow it back.
Roses and Lilies are common in the RWS Decks, and do in fact imply a very important message depending on the reading. I find the pictoral key to the tarot kind of bland though.
septemberwitch
14-04-2009, 19:58
I was wonderin if anyone knows and could tell me what the red hat and boots on the figure in the 7 of swords might represent? I wonder why red? and what that colour is trying to say in this card? thank you
MsRubyRain
14-04-2009, 20:49
Great thread!
I just started Mary K. Greer's workbook and a sample exercise was free writing on the word rose and then after to compare to the way roses were used in a Tarot deck. I have chosen Rider-Waite to do this study with, great information!
Synchronicity.
Roses & Lilies - in the “Pictorial Key,” Waite writes: "Beneath are roses and lilies, the flos campi and lilium convallium, changed into garden flowers..." The Latin words are from the Vulgate (Latin) Bible, the Song of Songs, Chap 2, Verse 1, “I am the Rose of Sharon, the lily of the valleys. As a lily among the thistles, so is my love among the thistles, so is my love among the maidens” - so the words are translated as Rose of Sharon and Lily of the Valley. So that is the ultimate source of the symbolism.
http://www.tarotpassages.com/old_moonstruck/oneill/1.htm
Re appearance of roses in Mag and 2 of Wands: I see the 2 of Wands as the Magician later in life. He's created and now is interested in creating once again but this time around not as a singlet, not creating from his ego alone, but in co-operation with something which is not himself. Even in appearance the Magician could be the Merchant from the 2 of Wands in earlier years.
If you think about it those two cards not only have the flowers in common but they both have two wands -- the Mag holds one aloft and has one on the table. In the two of wands one wand is in hand balanced upon the table while the second is bolted to the wall. No leaves on the Magician's wands -- all in potential -- but the wands are leafed in the 2 of Wands. Yet the roses are growing in the Magician and are a type of insignia in the 2 of Wands.
Three of Wands -- middle age for the Magician (both have headband)? - but no roses.
Random thoughts ...
Curtis Penfold
20-11-2009, 01:28
Does anyone know the meaning of the white rose and red lily that appear on the cards in the Rider Waite deck?
For example:
The fool holds a white rose
Death has a white rose on his flag
The people kneeling before the hierophant have a lily and rose design on their backs
They're on heaps more cards too (including a few minor arcana ones), but I can't remember where I've seen them without my deck handy.
Does anyone know if there's some interesting symbolism behind this - or did the deck's creator just like drawing lilies and roses?
BB
Mermaid
Alright, I know this thread died a long time ago, but I think it's worth resurrecting to at least point out how AMAZING the Rider Waite Smith Tarot deck is. Seriously, little symbols like this and how they use them just blow my mind.
I also come from a different background and look at these symbols differently. Before I read these other comments (which have influenced my view), this is how I would've responded to the original post:
I've been taught that white refers to both purity and victory. As in, when Jesus comes again, the saints will come down dressed in white, declaring their victory.
I know red roses can be a symbol of passion, but I'm not sure about white roses. (This symbol has been summed up in other posts beautifully).
But lillies! Those have some significance. Look at their shape. They look like the sun or stars. Aren't we all stars? (Crowley talks about that...not that that's relevant to this deck, but...)
Also, lillies sometimes are connected with resurrection (wikipedia: flower). Apparently they're used sometimes in burial.
Red can symbolize blood, which can symbolize both death and rebirth, or sacrifice.
KingofCups
21-11-2009, 16:43
In addition to other meanings, lillies are a traditional symbol of masculinity, so the lillies/roses can also be viewed as symbols of male and female, or on a more base level, duality.
Curtis Penfold
22-11-2009, 02:37
In addition to other meanings, lillies are a traditional symbol of masculinity, so the lillies/roses can also be viewed as symbols of male and female, or on a more base level, duality.
I like that. Man, this deck knows what its doing. Really gets people to think.